DefaultTrust changes

[o_e_l_e_o]

There are a concerning number of users now on DT2 who have left zero, or close to zero, ratings. It seems quite a few DT1 members are confusing "leaving positive feedback" with "adding to your trust list". This is a small distinction when you are not on DT1, but a big issue when you are. Also concerning is that in a not insignificant number of the users who have only left 1 or 2 feedbacks, they are only on DT2 because of the inclusion of a single DT1 user, and the only feedback they have left is a positive to that same DT1 member.


Sent 2 ratings:
Raoul Duke - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=9477 - Trust
Halab - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1053119 - Trust
SolarSilver - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=16248 - Trust
JoelKatz - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=27870 - Trust
alp - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=139027 - Trust
IdiotCoder - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=932936 - Trust
Astro - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3480 - Trust
morvillz7z - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1825672 - Trust
Vaporware - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=511342 - Trust
Elwar - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=554 - Trust
btct22 - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=43526 - Trust
HCLivess - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=188453 - Trust
DJ1554 - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=875141 - Trust
lovesmayfamilis - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1982152 - Trust


Sent 1 rating:
Vladimir - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3380 - Trust
gwillen - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=22698 - Trust
risho - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=34894 - Trust
mrkent - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=43172 - Trust
Novun - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1007555 - Trust
TomCrypto - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1227753 - Trust
unick - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=144671 - Trust
TripleHeXXX - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=226346 - Trust
jstefanop - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=324365 - Trust
Spidersbox - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=374905 - Trust
zoose - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=543831 - Trust
sigma2543 - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=831007 - Trust
desertboy10 - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1029297 - Trust
saga-crypto - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1116811 - Trust
zeki555 - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1392550 - Trust
gost111 - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=566884 - Trust
gerdab - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=262072 - Trust


Sent no ratings:
Meni Rosenfeld - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=5776 - Trust
rickbig41 - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=553678 - Trust
Xal0lex - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1068464 - Trust
chimk - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1202061 - Trust
Pieter Wuille - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2786 - Trust
Matt Corallo - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=4528 - Trust
forrestv - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=6447 - Trust
CydeWeys - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=12459 - Trust
kneim - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=43064 - Trust
romanornr - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=225292 - Trust
dolphriends - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1099535 - Trust
Corrosive - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2005913 - Trust
freemind1 - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=199420 - Trust
JayJuanGee - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=252510 - Trust
WOLTAN78 - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=369186 - Trust
Helana - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2359691 - Trust
Bigjohnson124 - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=185728 - Trust
cyberbully - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=539192 - Trust
Hardstyles - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=820393 - Trust
Nivir - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=893705 - Trust
MySeriousFaceIsOn - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1033523 - Trust
mole0815 - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1424178 - Trust
CDMcoin - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2152197 - Trust
waya - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=494630 - Trust
Maggiordomo - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2340148 - Trust

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[owlcatz]

Thanks for the list. Is there a way you can "Last Active" to that list? Seems many have not been active in a while, but I only checked a few...

[DarkStar_]

From list of new DT members, here are some people who I think should be excluded:

VonSpass - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=219067 | alt of scammer
lovesmayfamilis - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1982152 | added by ICOEthics, only trust feedback left is to ICOEthics and Coolcryptovator
DJ1554 - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=875141 | added by xtraelv and Lafu, only trust feedback left is to xtraelv and Lafu
zeki555 - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1392550 | added by Lafu, only trust feedback left is to Lafu
zoose - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=543831 | added by Lafu, only trust feedback left is to Lafu
unick - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=144671 | added by Lafu, only trust feedback left is to Lafu
desertboy10 - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1029297 | added by Lafu, only trust feedback left is to Lafu
Bigjohnson124 - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=185728 | zero trust feedback left
cyberbully - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=539192 | Newbie, inactive since 2015, zero trust feedback left
gost111 - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=566884 | has only one trust feedback left that's calling someone a scammer without a reference or any proof
MySeriousFaceIsOn - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1033523 | Newbie, zero trust feedback left
mxhwr - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=235528 | inactive since 2017, very few trust feedbacks left, one of which is to Lafu who added them
raymond541 - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=808354 | some random bounty manager who hasn't posted since Sep 2018, very few trust feedbacks left
TripleHeXXX - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=226346 | has left only one trust feedback
mole0815 - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1424178 | zero trust feedback left
CDMcoin - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2152197 | random Newbie with no trust feedback left
btct22 - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=43526 | added by Lafu, only trust feedback left is to Lafu & one other person

Lafu seems to have added everyone who left them positive trust feedback (excluding playersfun). I left a vote against them for now as I strongly disagree with adding people solely for the purpose of boosting your own trust score (not sure if it was done intentionally or from not understanding what a trust list should be for). Lafu (and xtraelv to a lesser degree) seem to have added everyone they've traded with/talked to which isn't very good practice. They should reconsider their trust lists imo.

If someone agrees with me for the above and wants to quickly exclude them, here's a list you can copy.

edit: o_e_l_e_o was faster than me it seems in posting those with few trust feedback left

[eddie13]

There are a concerning number of users now on DT2 who have left zero, or close to zero, ratings.

I don't think it is a problem that DT members that haven't sent much feedback..
Maybe we voted for them because we think they would make good decisions for the community if they got into DT1.

Also concerning is that in a not insignificant number of the users who have only left 1 or 2 feedbacks, they are only on DT2 because of the inclusion of a single DT1 user, and the only feedback they have left is a positive to that same DT1 member.

This IS something to keep your eyes out for.
DT1 members padding their feedback scores by including or excluding certain DT2s..

I strongly disagree with adding people solely for the purpose of boosting your own trust score

+1

I'm not sure what to think of the cryptopia bunch anyway having been around for their earlier threads and having personal run-ins with their hotshots at their site also..

[cryptohunter]

You're taking this way too personally.

I haven't taken anything personally. I haven't excluded those that have excluded me, because I am hoping, not expecting, that they will be willing to explain themselves. If I agree with their reasoning, then I can better myself or be accountable for where they see shortcomings. If I disagree with their reasoning or lack thereof, then I can place them as an exclusion and we both go on our way.

First of all, I don't know the reason why these people have excluded you. However, if I had to guess, it probably has something to with this.

Given the fact that Toy4lov3rs used the address a year before you did, it's pretty damning.

How it that worse than what the pharmacist did? here?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1702409.msg17808231#msg17808231

[o_e_l_e_o]

Maybe we voted for them because we think they would make good decisions for the community if they got into DT1.

Obviously, there are some users on the list I have made who are trusted in other ways - be it involvement with developing bitcoin core, moderators, etc. However, the list I have made above is composed of DT2 members, the majority of whom are DT2 members based on a singe inclusion from a DT1 member, and not from a community vote.

[EcuaMobi]

Lafu seems to have added everyone who left them positive trust feedback (excluding playersfun). I left a vote against them for now

Thanks for the info. I just did the same (along with VonSpass). A few more DT1 are required to exclude Lafu.

I strongly disagree with adding people solely for the purpose of boosting your own trust score

Absolutely agree. This should be handled:

I'd like to propose a change to discourage DT1 members from adding users to DT2 just to improve their own trust:
If a DT2 member is added only by one DT1 user and the former left positive trust to the later then it should not appear as trusted on the DT1's profile.

So in practice the DT1's default trust should not be affected by changes made by that DT1 user to their trust list.

[suchmoon]

morvillz7z - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1825672 - Trust

That's my inclusion and I can assure I'll be watching it for any potential improprieties... top notch investigator though and has the right mindset for DT.

Some of the users in the list are moderators included by theymos (rickbig41, Halab, Xal0lex) so perhaps we should leave them out of any concerns unless there's a specific issue.

[bones261]

Wow, I think some tilde keys are going to be getting a lot of use.  

morvillz7z - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1825672 - Trust

That's my inclusion and I can assure I'll be watching it for any potential improprieties... top notch investigator though and has the right mindset for DT.

Thanks for giving some of us the chance to be DT rookies. 

[coinlocket$]

Maggiordomo - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2340148 - Trust

I had Maggiordomo in my list before entering on DT, is the Piggy bot and I added in the past since he was talking here on the forum for the possibility to send a feedback with the bot on the banned accounts, so adding him was a fast way to see banned accounts with red trust, was a fast way to know it without searching on BPIP or modlog.
I will remove him there is no point to have DT power on a bot.

[o_e_l_e_o]

That's my inclusion and I can assure I'll be watching it for any potential improprieties... top notch investigator though and has the right mindset for DT.

Some of the users in the list are moderators included by theymos so perhaps we should leave them out of any concerns unless there's a specific issue.

Agreed. When making that list I hesitated almost immediately when I hit rickbig41 with zero sent ratings, but I figured it was better just to present the entire list without trying to edit it myself and making a mistake on who I excluded. There are obviously quite a few false positives, and morvillz7z was definitely one of them considering his activity on the Scam Accusations board.

If someone agrees with me for the above and wants to quickly exclude them, here's a list you can copy.

I would also consider adding the following to your exclusion list, for the same reason as the other "Lafu" ones.

btct22 - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=43526 - Trust
saga-crypto - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1116811 - Trust

[xtraelv]

From list of new DT members, here are some people who I think should be excluded:

VonSpass - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=219067 | alt of scammer
lovesmayfamilis - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1982152 | added by ICOEthics, only trust feedback left is to ICOEthics and Coolcryptovator
DJ1554 - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=875141 | added by xtraelv and Lafu, only trust feedback left is to xtraelv and Lafu
zeki555 - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1392550 | added by Lafu, only trust feedback left is to Lafu
zoose - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=543831 | added by Lafu, only trust feedback left is to Lafu
unick - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=144671 | added by Lafu, only trust feedback left is to Lafu
desertboy10 - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1029297 | added by Lafu, only trust feedback left is to Lafu
Bigjohnson124 - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=185728 | zero trust feedback left
cyberbully - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=539192 | Newbie, inactive since 2015, zero trust feedback left
gost111 - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=566884 | has only one trust feedback left that's calling someone a scammer without a reference or any proof
MySeriousFaceIsOn - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1033523 | Newbie, zero trust feedback left
mxhwr - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=235528 | inactive since 2017, very few trust feedbacks left, one of which is to Lafu who added them
raymond541 - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=808354 | some random bounty manager who hasn't posted since Sep 2018, very few trust feedbacks left
TripleHeXXX - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=226346 | has left only one trust feedback
mole0815 - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1424178 | zero trust feedback left
CDMcoin - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2152197 | random Newbie with no trust feedback left
taikuri13 - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1855828 | some random who sent 16 positive trusts today, with no previous feedbacks left

Lafu seems to have added everyone who left them positive trust feedback (excluding playersfun). I left a vote against them for now as I strongly disagree with adding people solely for the purpose of boosting your own trust score (not sure if it was done intentionally or from not understanding what a trust list should be for). Lafu (and xtraelv to a lesser degree) seem to have added everyone they've traded with/talked to which isn't very good practice. They should reconsider their trust lists imo.

If someone agrees with me for the above and wants to quickly exclude them, here's a list you can copy.

edit: o_e_l_e_o was faster than me it seems in posting those with few trust feedback left

Quite a few of those people (in bold) are on my trust list.  Most I have traded substantially with but not on bitcointalk. While some of the feedback I left recently is new - the trust list I have has not altered much. The recent feedback I have left was for DTs that I believe are doing a great job and should continue to remain DTs under the new system. (Were already on my trust list due to default trust).

However if any DTs are concerned about the conduct of anyone on my trust list in future I will happily remove them.

[DarkStar_]

Quite a few of those people are on my trust list.  Most I have traded substantially with but not on bitcointalk. While some of the feedback I left recently is new - the trust list I have has not altered much. The recent feedback I have left was for DTs that I believe are doing a great job and should continue to remain DTs under the new system. (Were already on my trust list due to default trust).

However if any DTs are concerned about the conduct of anyone on my trust list in future I will happily remove them.

I would consider taking a look at your trust list again now that you are on DT1, as it now has a significant effect. The trust list is for people whom you trust to leave accurate trust feedback and maintain good trust lists, and not for people who you've traded with (you can leave them a positive trust feedback for that). There's quite a few people on your list who are very inactive on Bitcointalk/don't leave trust feedback, and I would consider removing them as there is not much point to them being on DT2.

You don't have to leave someone positive feedback to add them to your trust list, and you don't have to add someone to your trust list to leave positive feedback to them. I think you are mixing the two things up.

[yahoo62278]

From list of new DT members, here are some people who I think should be excluded:

VonSpass - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=219067 | alt of scammer
lovesmayfamilis - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1982152 | added by ICOEthics, only trust feedback left is to ICOEthics and Coolcryptovator
DJ1554 - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=875141 | added by xtraelv and Lafu, only trust feedback left is to xtraelv and Lafu
zeki555 - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1392550 | added by Lafu, only trust feedback left is to Lafu
zoose - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=543831 | added by Lafu, only trust feedback left is to Lafu
unick - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=144671 | added by Lafu, only trust feedback left is to Lafu
desertboy10 - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1029297 | added by Lafu, only trust feedback left is to Lafu
Bigjohnson124 - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=185728 | zero trust feedback left
cyberbully - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=539192 | Newbie, inactive since 2015, zero trust feedback left
gost111 - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=566884 | has only one trust feedback left that's calling someone a scammer without a reference or any proof
MySeriousFaceIsOn - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1033523 | Newbie, zero trust feedback left
mxhwr - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=235528 | inactive since 2017, very few trust feedbacks left, one of which is to Lafu who added them
raymond541 - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=808354 | some random bounty manager who hasn't posted since Sep 2018, very few trust feedbacks left
TripleHeXXX - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=226346 | has left only one trust feedback
mole0815 - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1424178 | zero trust feedback left
CDMcoin - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2152197 | random Newbie with no trust feedback left
taikuri13 - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1855828 | some random who sent 16 positive trusts today, with no previous feedbacks left

Lafu seems to have added everyone who left them positive trust feedback (excluding playersfun). I left a vote against them for now as I strongly disagree with adding people solely for the purpose of boosting your own trust score (not sure if it was done intentionally or from not understanding what a trust list should be for). Lafu (and xtraelv to a lesser degree) seem to have added everyone they've traded with/talked to which isn't very good practice. They should reconsider their trust lists imo.

If someone agrees with me for the above and wants to quickly exclude them, here's a list you can copy.

edit: o_e_l_e_o was faster than me it seems in posting those with few trust feedback left

I can agree with everyone on this list except raymond541. He is my assistant(not a random bounty manager) whom has worked with me on campaigns for well over 2 years now. I trust his judgement personally but If the community disagrees I would probably be willing to remove him from my list. I will not agree to exclude him though as I have stated before I trust his judgement to this point.

[owlcatz]

You don't have to leave someone positive feedback to add them to your trust list, and you don't have to add someone to your trust list to leave positive feedback to them. I think you are mixing the two things up.

I think this is something people don't understand for the most part (yet).... Great point though, thank you.

[DarkStar_]

-snip-

I can agree with everyone on this list except raymond541. He is my assistant(not a random bounty manager) whom has worked with me on campaigns for well over 2 years now. I trust his judgement personally but If the community disagrees I would probably be willing to remove him from my list. I will not agree to exclude him though as I have stated before I trust his judgement to this point.

Fair enough, thanks for responding  

I excluded him because he left positive trust feedback to lenny_, who had 5 negative trusts from DT at the time. lenny_ was asking people to leave him positive trust or else people would be banned from participating in their future bounties/campaigns. raymond541 left a scammer a positive trust so that they could join future bounty work, so I wasn't very comfortable trusting their judgement based off of that decision. Aside from that, they left 4 positive trust feedbacks that I can't really comment on.

[xtraelv]

taikuri13 has helped me with scam investigations and translations. I've removed some of the feedback that I had on some inactive members since they don't use this site much anyway..

[Lafu]

On my list not only Users that i have given or got Feedback !

All the Users on my list are there because i trust them and have helped them or they was helping me  !

No more and no less

[owlcatz]

On my list not only Users that i have given or got Feedback !

All the Users on my list are there because i trust them and have helped them or they was helping me  !

No more and no less

It doesn't matter. It doesn't mean we all need to trust them too.

[Lafu]

####

And what should i do ?

Delete them and put your name there ? LOL