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Author Topic: DefaultTrust changes  (Read 50098 times)
Quickseller
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January 15, 2019, 08:14:41 PM
 #701

Well, we almost made it a week with the new trust system before newly appointed DT members were connected to a large scam (>$70,000)...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5097164.0

20 BTC jackpot not paid out to a user playing by the rules. DT member wearing a paid signature from the accused scam site rushing to defend it in spite of having the exact opposite opinion on previous similar cases.

I think it's a bit early to call that a scam or accusing people of defending a scam. Please try to refrain from starting more drama over nothing.
I wouldn’t jump out blindly saying everything is fine and dandy without reviewing the evidence.

Based on what I have seen so far, I think FJ is in the wrong.

Find the fire hydrant in my Avatar for a prize.
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OgNasty
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January 15, 2019, 08:16:38 PM
 #702

Well, we almost made it a week with the new trust system before newly appointed DT members were connected to a large scam (>$70,000)...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5097164.0

20 BTC jackpot not paid out to a user playing by the rules. DT member wearing a paid signature from the accused scam site rushing to defend it in spite of having the exact opposite opinion on previous similar cases.

I think it's a bit early to call that a scam or accusing people of defending a scam. Please try to refrain from starting more drama over nothing.

Not too early to defend your signature advertiser though, right?  Please try to refrain from downplaying someone's loss of >$70,000.

Hmmm.... Betcoin.... Hmmm...

I actually agree with you, they were extremely similar.  I was harassed constantly by several members in multiple channels outside of this forum until I removed the signature, which I did before my agreed advertisement period.  Probably the only time I've ever gone against my word on this site.  Luckily, Betcoin was horrified by the allegations and understanding of me wanting to remove the signature for any perceived damage to my reputation that wearing it might have caused even though I only had it for a matter of days and they had positive trust when I agreed to it.

Betcoin maybe? Not even remotely similar.

Lauda however doesn't agree with you, because of the obvious hypocrisy.  

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January 15, 2019, 08:33:41 PM
Last edit: January 15, 2019, 08:50:25 PM by cryptohunter
 #703

Since lot of new face on DT network, I am expecting a suggestion's/motivational post from old DT members. To be honest lot of here even don't know where should leave what kind of feedback. So if there is few suggestion's then we can learn from it especially who is totally new.  
Here's some quick advice:
1) For positive feedback: Be very conservative.
2) For negative feedback: Be strict and follow the general standards (what we tag for and what we don't tag for).
3) For trust lists: Not that important unless you are DT1, but I'd say be even more conservative than 1).

Well seems you don't stick by those standards at all.

I presented evidence that you lied and said I would encourage persons to examine your history .......... you then gave me red trust.

Only those that have wrong doing in their past history would view encouraging people to look back at it a bad thing. Do you have things to hide? well the fact you lied with financial motivation is there in black and white. Can't weasel out of that.

Then the 2 others involved/implicated in your extortion scheme tman and owlcatz both gave me red trust for saying you are an abuser of the trust system and again presenting evidence that you are indeed a financially motivated liar.

One of your idiot friends tman admitted in black and white he gave me red trust because I presented facts about you

Unless you can find one lie that I have posted about you then you need to remove my red trust.

The funny thing is you rushed to a thread without me even asking you to prior to all of this to accuse me of being a liar and when I said produce the evidence you did not.

So you are a fool, liar, trust abuser with double standards. That is without all the other shady stuff you are implicated in....

This is on topic so I don't expect it to be removed from this thread.

You can not have a proven liar and abuser of the trust system telling others how to use the trust system when clearly not following his own advice.


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January 16, 2019, 05:07:17 AM
 #704


I think this is too much change at once.
There are too many new faces as DTs, this will become a mess, there will be too much retaliation between people, too many tags given without thinking.
Look at this discussion. The fact that everyone's list is public brings a lot of drama.
But I suspect this is what Theymos wanted.

 I think the criterias should be much more selective.

DT1s :
-Should have earned at least 750 merits (number to raise with time)
-Should have an activity of at least 800
-Should be trusted by one of the admins

DT2s :
-Should have earned at least 500 merits
-Should have an activity of at least 800 as well (no newbies please, they have no idea of the responsibility this is)
-Sould be trusted by at least 2 DT1s

I understand that Theymos wants the merit criteria to be taken into account and I agree with that but the rest is way too subjective. The DTs should be established members who know this place and will take their job seriously, not new guys who will be on a power trip and tag everyone on sight.
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January 16, 2019, 05:11:01 AM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #705


I think this is too much change at once.
There are too many new faces as DTs, this will become a mess, there will be too much retaliation between people, too many tags given without thinking.
Look at this discussion. The fact that everyone's list is public brings a lot of drama.
But I suspect this is what Theymos wanted.

 I think the criterias should be much more selective.

DT1s :
-Should have earned at least 750 merits (number to raise with time)
-Should have an activity of at least 800
-Should be trusted by one of the admins

DT2s :
-Should have earned at least 500 merits
-Should have an activity of at least 800 as well (no newbies please, they have no idea of the responsibility this is)
-Sould be trusted by at least 2 DT1s

I understand that Theymos wants the merit criteria to be taken into account and I agree with that but the rest is way too subjective. The DTs should be established members who know this place and will take their job seriously, not new guys who will be on a power trip and tag everyone on sight.


So you are brand new to the forum, and know the way it  "Should work" Huh

Lol.... Tongue
bones261
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January 16, 2019, 05:24:32 AM
 #706

~snip~

So you are brand new to the forum, and know the way it  "Should work" Huh

Lol.... Tongue

Must be someone who noticed that their trust score just turned red with all the untrusted feedback now becoming trusted feedback.  Cheesy

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suchmoon
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January 16, 2019, 06:30:23 AM
 #707

-Should have an activity of at least 800
Activity has nothing to do with trust.

-Should be trusted by one of the admins
That's what it used to be. A handpicked list of DT1 members. We're moving away from that.

Lauda
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January 16, 2019, 07:02:03 AM
 #708

~snip~
So you are brand new to the forum, and know the way it  "Should work" Huh

Lol.... Tongue
Must be someone who noticed that their trust score just turned red with all the untrusted feedback now becoming trusted feedback.  Cheesy
Maybe it's just another alt of Quickscammer. It would be best to avoid manipulative advice. Roll Eyes

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asche
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January 16, 2019, 07:35:35 AM
 #709


I think this is too much change at once.
There are too many new faces as DTs, this will become a mess, there will be too much retaliation between people, too many tags given without thinking.
Look at this discussion. The fact that everyone's list is public brings a lot of drama.
But I suspect this is what Theymos wanted.

 I think the criterias should be much more selective.

DT1s :
-Should have earned at least 750 merits (number to raise with time)
-Should have an activity of at least 800
-Should be trusted by one of the admins

DT2s :
-Should have earned at least 500 merits
-Should have an activity of at least 800 as well (no newbies please, they have no idea of the responsibility this is)
-Sould be trusted by at least 2 DT1s

I understand that Theymos wants the merit criteria to be taken into account and I agree with that but the rest is way too subjective. The DTs should be established members who know this place and will take their job seriously, not new guys who will be on a power trip and tag everyone on sight.


So you want us to believe you understand what the Trust Network is, what activity is and what merits are, having joined the forum just today?
If you want your post to have any credit whatsoever you should use your main account Wink

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January 16, 2019, 07:47:07 AM
 #710

Must be someone who noticed that their trust score just turned red with all the untrusted feedback now becoming trusted feedback.  Cheesy
Of course I'm an alt but no I'm not tagged or in the run to be DT.
This thread is 30 pages long of intimidation so I think it's wiser for me to use an alt. I'm just a regular member.
That doesn't mean my points can't be taken into consideration.
Why not put all this to a vote, a vote in which untagged members with at least a certain amount of earned merits (20,30,50...I don't know) would participate?
Theymos would give us a few options on how DTs should be picked and we would vote for the one we prefer.
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January 16, 2019, 07:58:27 AM
Last edit: January 16, 2019, 08:33:13 AM by DdmrDdmr
 #711

<...>
That would totally defeat the purpose of the changes which, I figure, vouch for a more decentralized system, since candidate numbers woud be really low:

Forum profiles that meet your DT1 criteria (*): 12
Forum profiles that meet your DT2 criteria (*): 23
Code:
user_id   name                          rank           activity  merit     earnedMerits        Your DT1 Criteria   Your DT2 Criteria
290195    achow101                      Staff          1638      1936      935                 Yes                 Yes
569455    BobLawblaw                    Legendary      1148      1683      683                 no                  Yes
11425     gmaxwell                      Staff          2618      1846      846                 Yes                 Yes
867786    HCP                           Legendary      840       1032      532                 no                  Yes
881377    Hhampuz                       Legendary      910       1001      501                 no                  Yes
397737    hilariousetc                  Legendary      1092      1759      1259                Yes                 Yes
41175     infofront                     Legendary      1526      1534      531                 no                  Yes
252510    JayJuanGee                    Legendary      1764      1505      504                 no                  Yes
698159    Jet Cash                      Legendary      1120      1430      927                 Yes                 Yes
49008     jojo69                        Legendary      1260      1558      558                 no                  Yes
479624    Last of the V8s               Legendary      1008      1698      1197                Yes                 Yes
101872    Lauda                         Legendary      2086      1687      687                 no                  Yes
459836    LoyceV                        Legendary      1358      2522      1522                Yes                 Yes
520313    Lutpin                        Legendary      1274      1764      764                 Yes                 Yes
787736    marlboroza                    Legendary      1064      1092      592                 no                  Yes
18321     OgNasty                       Donator        2786      1504      504                 no                  Yes
24140     qwk                           Donator        2002      1561      561                 no                  Yes
234771    suchmoon                      Legendary      1820      2256      1253                Yes                 Yes
487418    The Pharmacist                Legendary      1386      2286      1284                Yes                 Yes
35        theymos                       Administrator  3262      4502      3480                Yes                 Yes
98986     TMAN                          Legendary      1022      1225      722                 no                  Yes
30747     Vod                           Legendary      2618      1902      901                 Yes                 Yes
120694    xhomerx10                     Legendary      1890      1812      810                 Yes                 Yes

(*) Trusted by admin / DT1 not included, so numbers would be even lower really (plus DT1s would not be on the DT2 list).

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January 16, 2019, 08:03:22 AM
 #712

Must be someone who noticed that their trust score just turned red with all the untrusted feedback now becoming trusted feedback.  Cheesy
Of course I'm an alt but no I'm not tagged or in the run to be DT.
This thread is 30 pages long of intimidation so I think it's wiser for me to use an alt. I'm just a regular member.
That doesn't mean my points can't be taken into consideration.

That's exactly what it means.

If you want the chance of anybody taking anything you have to say seriously, post under your main account.

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January 16, 2019, 08:06:05 AM
 #713

Why not put all this to a vote, a vote in which untagged members with at least a certain amount of earned merits (20,30,50...I don't know) would participate?
I mean, you've just suggested exactly how the new system works. Any member with more than 10 merits gets to vote in who they want to be DT1. The more merit you have, the more user you can vote for. Just because you don't like the outcome of a vote, doesn't mean the entire system is invalid. The whole point of the system is to not have theymos handpicking a few DT1s. If there is anyone he really doesn't want on the DT1 list, he can still blacklist/remove them, so you can assume he is it at least somewhat happy with the current voted in list.

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January 16, 2019, 08:47:30 AM
 #714

I like the changes so far. Theymos said that changes can/will still be made if the new system proves to be faulty. The current system appears to me more decentralized as it is.

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Alex_Sr
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January 16, 2019, 09:17:45 AM
 #715

DT1s :
-Should have earned at least 750 merits (number to raise with time)
-Should have an activity of at least 800
-Should be trusted by one of the admins

The basis of the DT system is the aggregation of unique feedback from many users. If you don't have feedback and you have activity and merit, how will it help other users to determine trust in a particular user?
asche
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January 16, 2019, 09:28:31 AM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #716

I'm not tagged or in the run to be DT.

So why not express your voice with your original account? What do you fear exactly.

I didn't see much intimidation yet. Maybe a bit of heated debate.

You showed that your logic is invalid, I hardly see you get tagged or something like that if you had posted it with your main account.

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January 16, 2019, 09:37:07 AM
Merited by suchmoon (7), Slow death (1), Hhampuz (1), DdmrDdmr (1)
 #717

The current system appears to me more decentralized as it is.

Its also pretty cleaver.

DT-1 people who have lots of earned positive trust feedback (physical bitcoin collectors are at the top) these people have all been trusted with funds the majority of these trades without escrow
DT-2 the members that the above trust to look after the forum and protect the trust system and newbies from scammers

Many times better than a draconian system with a few members that Theymos trusted back in 2013. No longer is it a dictatorship, people who are trusted with funds are able to vote members in. Also what most people are ignoring is the onus that Theymos has put on people to set custom lists, if you don't like me or trust me then fucking exclude me - same for anyone else on DT-1, once this all goes through the wash and DT is expanded it will be interesting to see what the state of DT-1 is and how all the senior and trusted members have voted.


ill say it again, IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE SYSTEM SET A CUSTOM LIST. This is peoples chance to vote who is trusted and who isn't and once 50% of the forum is using custom lists then DT means fuck all anyway other than a guide to newbies (who wont be trading till they have an idea of how things  happen here anyway)


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suchmoon
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January 16, 2019, 03:21:45 PM
 #718

untagged members

What does that mean?

cryptohunter
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January 16, 2019, 03:27:25 PM
 #719

The current system appears to me more decentralized as it is.

Its also pretty cleaver.

DT-1 people who have lots of earned positive trust feedback (physical bitcoin collectors are at the top) these people have all been trusted with funds the majority of these trades without escrow
DT-2 the members that the above trust to look after the forum and protect the trust system and newbies from scammers

Many times better than a draconian system with a few members that Theymos trusted back in 2013. No longer is it a dictatorship, people who are trusted with funds are able to vote members in. Also what most people are ignoring is the onus that Theymos has put on people to set custom lists, if you don't like me or trust me then fucking exclude me - same for anyone else on DT-1, once this all goes through the wash and DT is expanded it will be interesting to see what the state of DT-1 is and how all the senior and trusted members have voted.


ill say it again, IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE SYSTEM SET A CUSTOM LIST. This is peoples chance to vote who is trusted and who isn't and once 50% of the forum is using custom lists then DT means fuck all anyway other than a guide to newbies (who wont be trading till they have an idea of how things  happen here anyway)



cleaver?

Well i see you personally admitted 2 accounts of trust abuse so far.

1. you admitted you left red trust for me relating facts.
2. you just threatened to leave me red trust for not using a posting format you considered easier to read.

Get these types of abusers off of the DT list before it becomes a laughing stock.

proof can be provided.

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January 16, 2019, 03:36:08 PM
Merited by OgNasty (1)
 #720

offensive posting style that has given me eye cancer  and inability to quote the small part of a massive thread.

I hardly see how this is reason for a red tag. Not debating the other part, I have no stake in this debate.

Try harder you stupid fuck.

Since he is supposed to be mental and not you, I would appreciate (for my eyes, and eye cancer risks) for you to refrain from using such names.

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