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Author Topic: DefaultTrust changes  (Read 56816 times)
DdmrDdmr
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March 13, 2019, 11:35:24 AM
Merited by RocketSingh (1)
 #1461

<...>
The core DT1 is updated monthly, and over the last two iterations has been done on the fith:

20190305: DT update log
20190205: Re: DefaultTrust changes

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March 13, 2019, 04:10:04 PM
 #1462

Update for the last week with merit data dumps from theymos and LoyceV.
It seems that over the last three weeks, median of intra-day merits of the after period compared to before period have fluctuated stably around + 4%

Colors:
- Red: Decrease
- Green: Increase.

Two week later:
Median: + 37.1
Mean: + 24.2

Three weeks later:
Median: + 15.9
Mean: + 15.5

Four weeks later:
Median: + 15.6
Mean: + 11.1

Five weeks later:
Median: + 6.2
Mean: + 6.4

Six weeks later:
Median: + 4.2
Mean: + 3.5

Seven weeks later:
Median: + 4.2
Mean: + 2.7

Eight weeks later:
Median: + 4.7
Mean: + 1.9


More details are available there




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March 30, 2019, 12:11:50 AM
 #1463

Trying to solve the trust system I wanted to check it on a specific example. I added one user's trust to my list and tried to check his trust values. I agree with the third cycle but I still have problems with the first one but I am convinced that I will find the answer here.

The user on which I tested this system is wwzsocki, with whom I can see the numbers 12 0 5

The number of positive trust reports agrees - when I enter his profile I see five positive Trusted feedback so this is ok ...

I do not understand why the score of the user's trust - I see the number 12 on his profile
According to me:

Since I gave him a trust (this month) so he has a trust from me 1

One mate from my trust list also gave him a trust this month so his trust is growing to two.

Additionally, my trust deep is set to 1 (and he is in my trust list) so I "see" his as well his personal trust.

Apart from me and a user from my list (which I have already mentioned), he has two users (whom he gave the trust and they gave him back to him) - one ("2018-11-11" so 5 months ago) and the other ("2018-10 -21 "so 6 months ago), so for these two should get an extra 11 points, which together with the two points I mentioned earlier gives 13.

So why do I see 12 Huh





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Coolcryptovator
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March 30, 2019, 04:43:54 AM
 #1464

So why do I see 12 Huh
Since you have set your trust depth 1 then you will see only DT1 trust rating. Whoever on your trust list they are DT1 for you. Since wwzsocki had not received any feedback's from DT members so you will see only your feedback's and whom on trust list. So trust rating will calculate based on your trust list. Most likely every 14 days will increase 1 point from each feedback's within your trust network.

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March 30, 2019, 05:00:41 AM
 #1465

Most likely every 14 days will increase 1 point from each feedback's within your trust network.

It increases every month by +1.
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March 30, 2019, 07:47:26 AM
Merited by LoyceV (1)
 #1466

Most likely every 14 days will increase 1 point from each feedback's within your trust network.

It increases every month by +1.
So how your trust score become +1 since it's not a month that you have got positive feedback  Wink.

However I am not saying you are totally wrong. I just noticed on my first score, after I didn't bothered to calculate it. You might get more clear answers from below quote. Perhaps first score reflect after two weeks then increase by every month.

It starts changing after approximately 2 weeks, theymos uses "round_up" for months.

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March 30, 2019, 08:08:22 AM
Merited by LoyceV (1)
 #1467

So how your trust score become +1 since it's not a month that you have got positive feedback  Wink.

However I am not saying you are totally wrong. I just noticed on my first score, after I didn't bothered to calculate it. You might get more clear answers from below quote. Perhaps first score reflect after two weeks then increase by every month.

It starts changing after approximately 2 weeks, theymos uses "round_up" for months.
Yaa, its rounded up for an total month.

I think the algorithm shows it clearly! Grin

Code:
score += min(10, round_up(months since rating))
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March 30, 2019, 10:26:27 PM
Last edit: March 31, 2019, 12:52:36 PM by cryptovigi
 #1468


Hey guys - thanks for giving me the algorithm, but I do already know it. The problem is that, when i try to check the algorithm on the particular example sth doesn't work, that's why i asked you to check my example and explain where do i make a mistake


Maybe this could be helpfull:

My trust list is short:
                             
Code:
DefaultTrust
wwzsocki
BitCryptex
Tytanowy Janusz
And Trust depth as i said is set to 1


And this is Trusted feedback of wwzsocki from his Trust summary

User           Date                      Risked BTC amount           Reference          
sud2019-03-160.00000000Reference
Tytanowy Janusz   2019-03-05   0.00000000   Reference
cryptovigi   2019-03-04   0.00000000   
investaco   2018-11-11   1.00000000   Reference
crypto mania   2018-10-21   0.00000000   

And his Sent feedback

User           Date                      Risked BTC amount           Reference          
investaco2018-09-125.00000000Reference
crypto mania   2018-10-11   0.00000000   Reference
cryptovigi   2019-03-02   0.00000000   
BitBay*   2019-03-03   0.00000000   Reference
ICOEthics   2019-03-03   0.00000000   
Tytanowy Janusz   2019-03-05   0.00000000   Reference
BitCryptex   2019-03-06   0.00000000   


So once again - looking at trust values of user wwzsocki :
...I can see the numbers 12: -0 / +5

The number of positive trust reports agrees - when I enter his profile I see five positive Trusted feedback so this is ok ...

I do not understand why the score of the user's trust - I see the number 12 on his profile
According to me:

Since I gave him a trust (this month) so he has a trust from me 1

One mate from my trust list also gave him a trust this month so his trust is growing to two.

Additionally, my trust deep is set to 1 (and he is in my trust list) so I "see" his as well his personal trust.

Apart from me and a user from my list (which I have already mentioned), he has two users (whom he gave the trust and they gave him back to him) - one ("2018-11-11" so 5 months ago) and the other ("2018-10 -21 "so 6 months ago), so for these two should get an extra 11 points, which together with the two points I mentioned earlier gives 13.

So why do I see 12 Huh


[edit:]
Today (31-03-2019) his trust changed and  now i can see 13: -0 / +5
So the new question is: "Why did the change from 12 to 13 take place today not earlier"





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March 31, 2019, 11:02:47 AM
 #1469

...
So the new question is: "Why did the change from 12 to 13 take place today not earlier"


Since I do not find any relation to today's date with the change in the trust value of the user wwzsocki - the only explanation I found is that the value of trust is not constantly updated, but this process takes place every certain period of time (or on a particular day of the month).
So if someone receives a trust feedback - his score is refreshed immediately, but if he does not get another - the next refreshment takes place in accordance with the planned schedule - or on a specific day of the month (for example the last day of the month - it would explain todays change).

Is it possible? - I have not found information on this subject except for the one below (but it concerns DT1) ...

...
#3
I will periodically (maybe every month) be reconstructing the default trust list to include everyone who matches these criteria:
...





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March 31, 2019, 01:33:36 PM
 #1470

So the new question is: "Why did the change from 12 to 13 take place today not earlier"

It looks like the round_up part of the formula may not be rounding up but rather rounding properly, i.e. numbers below 0.5 are rounded to 0, not to 1. I'm guessing the March 16 rating "matured" today to 0.5+ of a month and added 1 to the rating.

Calculations from poking around some random users:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=452769
2019-03-07 rounding up should make this a +1, rounding properly would make it a +1
2019-02-23 rounding up should make this a +2, rounding properly would make it a +1
2019-01-30 rounding up should make this a +3, rounding properly would make it a +2
Actual rating is +4

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=1339716
2019-02-05 rounding up should make this a +2, rounding properly would make it a +2
2019-01-27 rounding up should make this a +3, rounding properly would make it a +2
Actual rating is +4

And so on. Note that I'm using a custom trust list so the ratings you'll see on those users will probably be different.

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March 31, 2019, 04:40:57 PM
 #1471


...
It looks like the round_up part of the formula may not be rounding up but rather rounding properly, i.e. numbers below 0.5 are rounded to 0, not to 1. I'm guessing the March 16 rating "matured" today to 0.5+ of a month and added 1 to the rating.
...

Your way of thinking is completely logical, but it does not harmonize with the algorithm given by theymos - he clearly wrote that he uses the function of rounding up in other case  he would use a simple rounding function (as you described). I am also convinced that after receiving my first positive feedback I did not have to wait two weeks and trust score appeared immediately (that means, the rounding up function worked).

Therefore, I think that the algorithm works, while the trust is recalculated not continuously only at a specific time (for example on a particular day of the month), except the situation when someone receives a positive /negative feedback - then the trust score is recalculated immediately.





.




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suchmoon
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March 31, 2019, 04:47:57 PM
 #1472


...
It looks like the round_up part of the formula may not be rounding up but rather rounding properly, i.e. numbers below 0.5 are rounded to 0, not to 1. I'm guessing the March 16 rating "matured" today to 0.5+ of a month and added 1 to the rating.
...

Your way of thinking is completely logical, but it does not harmonize with the algorithm given by theymos - he clearly wrote that he uses the function of rounding up in other case  he would use a simple rounding function (as you described). I am also convinced that after receiving my first positive feedback I did not have to wait two weeks and trust score appeared immediately (that means, the rounding up function worked).

Therefore, I think that the algorithm works, while the trust is recalculated not continuously only at a specific time (for example on a particular day of the month), except the situation when someone receives a positive /negative feedback - then the trust score is recalculated immediately.

Could be. I have a couple of feedbacks from January 17 and 19 - will check in a couple of days if my score increases or not. Right now it's 2 points short

1miau
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April 03, 2019, 10:37:38 PM
Last edit: April 04, 2019, 03:57:32 PM by 1miau
 #1473

New Members added to DT1:

malevolent
Anduck
Ticked
greenplastic
Foxpup
EcuaMobi
Avirunes
willi9974
Rmcdermott927
nutildah
Kryptowerk
Hellmouth42

Source: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5117330.msg50447891#msg50447891

suchmoon
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April 04, 2019, 12:55:03 AM
 #1474

New Members added to DT1:

+Foxpup

iasenko
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April 04, 2019, 06:53:33 AM
 #1475

Any members that are removed then? How big the Default Trust list can grow, I remember discussing this back in the day, but now I do nor recall what was the final answer? More and more people will cover the required criteria to enter the DT.

LoyceV
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April 04, 2019, 08:13:34 AM
 #1476

Any members that are removed then?
No, only additions. Diff:
Code:
7a8
> malevolent
9a11
> Anduck
11a14
> Foxpup
19a23
> Ticked
23a28
> greenplastic
24a30,31
> EcuaMobi
> Avirunes
25a33
> willi9974
27a36
> Rmcdermott927
29a39
> nutildah
53a64
> Kryptowerk
64a76
> Hellmouth42

Quote
How big the Default Trust list can grow, I remember discussing this back in the day, but now I do nor recall what was the final answer?
I don't think there's a final answer yet, if I recall correctly theymos mentioned somehting like 100.

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April 04, 2019, 10:10:49 AM
 #1477

New Members added to DT1:

+Foxpup
Geez, you just had to go and blow my cover, didn't you? Roll Eyes

Will pretend to do unspeakable things (while actually eating a taco) for bitcoins: 1K6d1EviQKX3SVKjPYmJGyWBb1avbmCFM4
suchmoon
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April 04, 2019, 02:50:31 PM
 #1478

New Members added to DT1:

+Foxpup
Geez, you just had to go and blow my cover, didn't you? Roll Eyes

Sorry, must have missed the super secret memo.

What we really need to figure out now is whether Lauda's gang or Foxpup's club is controlling the DT.

LoyceV
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April 04, 2019, 03:20:52 PM
 #1479

What we really need to figure out now is whether Lauda's gang or Foxpup's club is controlling the DT.
Isn't that obvious?
Image loading...

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April 04, 2019, 03:30:48 PM
 #1480

The worst thing about the Merit Cycle is that it always comes to an end  Cry

I wish it could go on forever. But then peeps would be getting 10,000 merits a day and shit.


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