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Author Topic: Money Is Political, Not Technical  (Read 14785 times)
styca
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October 01, 2019, 05:44:50 AM
 #201

I don't think money is entirely political. It started off as a technical solution - an abstraction of value from things themselves to things (coins) that represent value, all based on an understanding that everyone would agree that the coins represented a certain amount of value. Of course this is simplifying it, because coins were made of silver etc that already had an agreed value, but I think the basic point holds.

I would say that it became political because control and manipulation of value is a way to control and manipulate power. The people in charge always try to control society and organise it in their own favour, it's just easier to do this with money than it is without that abstraction of value.


At the center of his conclusion that Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies have no real value proposition is that the top Western currencies have no store-of-value problem.

This sort of conclusion by "experts" drives me crazy! Crypto offers far more than being a store-of-value, it's not merely a further abstraction of metal coins into an intangible equivalent - that's already there with bank accounts, bank cards etc. To say crypto is simply a store of value without physical form is nonsense. Crypto offers far far more, not just the immutable record, not just speed, not just security... it goes on and on, what about smart contracts for example?

 
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October 01, 2019, 07:50:43 AM
 #202

Why not, money is political and not technical there, if you have much money you can make some altcoin price pump suddendly without have to learn about technical or chart, you can make much profit without have to understand about chart at support to buy or to sell because happen with some altcoin in exchange.

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October 01, 2019, 10:45:42 AM
 #203

Money is considered as medium in anything. It might be acquired by technical analysis. Some from the political views. As a medium of doing transaction it's not necessarily by political only. Some people use money and don't give a damn in political issues. It's too wide to be just in political area.

 
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October 06, 2019, 04:21:22 AM
 #204

Money is political and not have technical, if you have big power you can make much money because you have everything what do you want to do, you can manage cryptocurrency if you have control with political when you have banned or legal bitcoin and altcoin to make price higher, maybe you can remember with John McAffe could make some coin price pump.

 
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October 06, 2019, 08:08:28 AM
 #205

Money has always been a tool of politics first, and then the economy. So the invited elite of society always went into politics primarily in order to strengthen their economic, that is, financial position. On the whole, the issue of issuing money has always been under the exclusive jurisdiction of the state. Who controlled the issue of issuing money, he had real political power. Therefore, one should not be surprised if states continue to tighten the rules for cryptocurrency circulation and try to control it.
Yes, it's true. Politics and money have always been and will be inextricably linked. The meaning of political decisions is usually almost always aimed at strengthening the economic condition of society or its individual groups. There is nothing surprising here. After all, we live in our rough physical world, where the economy determines politics, and not vice versa

I tend to disagree with this view

If anything, it is politicians who determine the economic policy of a country and ultimately its fate, not economists. Politics has the upper hand in the economic matters, and to prove that is in fact pretty easy. Most wars turn out an economic disaster for the belligerent countries (it has been so for millenia), while the questions of peace and war are in the hands of a few people who may not have a damn clue about economics and how the economy works. In other words, it remains to be seen whether political decisions are actually aimed at strengthening the economic conditions of a country as it may well be to the contrary

Could those people actually end up having economic benefits from wars? Direct of indirect benefits?
Centralization of power and situation where economic operators are dependent on government to operate creates situations of monopolies, corruption, etc... 
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October 06, 2019, 09:19:33 AM
 #206

If anything, it is politicians who determine the economic policy of a country and ultimately its fate, not economists. Politics has the upper hand in the economic matters, and to prove that is in fact pretty easy. Most wars turn out an economic disaster for the belligerent countries (it has been so for millenia), while the questions of peace and war are in the hands of a few people who may not have a damn clue about economics and how the economy works. In other words, it remains to be seen whether political decisions are actually aimed at strengthening the economic conditions of a country as it may well be to the contrary

Could those people actually end up having economic benefits from wars? Direct of indirect benefits?

This is certainly possible

Ultimately, it all depends on how successful these people are at warfare and ensuing dominion (remember, the winner takes it all, the loser's standing small). The most conspicuous example of this kind is the Roman Empire (first Republic, or how it was called before it became an empire). It led quite a number of successful wars through which it expanded its territory manifold and promoted economic wellbeing of its citizens

And when it finally collapsed, it was mostly due to internal corruption and discord, not wars of conquest as such. As a matter of fact, the Roman Empire even began to shrink near the end of its rule as it was no longer able to protect its lengthy borders due to continual economic and political failure of the state (e.g. Romans withdrew from Britain in the late 4th century about a hundred years prior to the fall of Rome herself)

Centralization of power and situation where economic operators are dependent on government to operate creates situations of monopolies, corruption, etc...

Well, technically, centralization of power doesn't necessarily mean centralization of economy through monopolies, etc. Although such centralization definitely creates certain incentives, you may still have a kind of monarchy with a properly decentralized economy

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October 06, 2019, 05:25:07 PM
 #207

I don't think money is entirely political. It started off as a technical solution - an abstraction of value from things themselves to things (coins) that represent value, all based on an understanding that everyone would agree that the coins represented a certain amount of value. Of course this is simplifying it, because coins were made of silver etc that already had an agreed value, but I think the basic point holds.

Banks are under the Government, the government is the one who make the call on what to do about the fiat that is being printed when it is needed. For me money is entirely political because they are the ones who is controlling it, they are using the banks to make it compact and well organized while citizens are using it on their everyday lives that keeps the economy moving, just my opinion, you don't have to believe it.

 
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October 06, 2019, 07:18:37 PM
 #208

I don't think money is entirely political. It started off as a technical solution - an abstraction of value from things themselves to things (coins) that represent value, all based on an understanding that everyone would agree that the coins represented a certain amount of value. Of course this is simplifying it, because coins were made of silver etc that already had an agreed value, but I think the basic point holds.

Banks are under the Government, the government is the one who make the call on what to do about the fiat that is being printed when it is needed. For me money is entirely political because they are the ones who is controlling it, they are using the banks to make it compact and well organized while citizens are using it on their everyday lives that keeps the economy moving, just my opinion, you don't have to believe it.


Its more then your opinion, banks need to follow the rules, rules set by government. Every country is different, in some countries banks have more power, in others less, point is that they have a deal with government. For example interest rates are different everywhere, in some countries citizens are protected until some level, in others banks can have power to do what they like, of course with the deal with government.
Money is political, and banks are politicized. In my country the Governor of the National Bank is a politician. That speaks for itself.

 
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October 07, 2019, 04:02:00 AM
 #209

that's a reality that recently a few people realize, maybe there will be bad thoughts about it
for example they actually don't make decisions according to conscience and the impact caused but money is a priority
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October 07, 2019, 05:14:22 AM
 #210

What are your thoughts on Financial Capitalism vs Industrial Capitalism?
In in those different approach the use of money and the impact of Crypto.
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October 07, 2019, 04:20:44 PM
 #211

How smart you are without money you can manage anything and you are not have power in political, by money you can doing what do you want and you have power full and do not need technical if you have money, like in cryptocurrency you can make price higher if you have much money without have skill for technical.
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October 07, 2019, 04:32:06 PM
 #212

True, the US is not Zimbabwe, or Venezuela, but is a bright person like himself not aware that a dollar or pound is worth a small fraction of itself decades to a century ago? 
Can't argue with that, but for example the U.S. dollar has been off the gold standard for decades.  And I would point out that wages have been increasing for at least as long as we've been off the gold standard.  The inflation therefore hasn't been nearly as bad as some would suggest.

On the other hand I fear for future generations if the money printing continues unabated.  This kind of thing cannot go on indefinitely, and the U.S. cannot maintain its dominancy if the federal reserve keeps churning out the money.  They're extremely short sighted and I have a feeling they just don't care about future generations having to clean up their economic mess.

Christ this country is fucked.  (United States, that is).

 
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October 08, 2019, 05:11:21 AM
 #213

True, the US is not Zimbabwe, or Venezuela, but is a bright person like himself not aware that a dollar or pound is worth a small fraction of itself decades to a century ago? 
Can't argue with that, but for example the U.S. dollar has been off the gold standard for decades.  And I would point out that wages have been increasing for at least as long as we've been off the gold standard.  The inflation therefore hasn't been nearly as bad as some would suggest.

On the other hand I fear for future generations if the money printing continues unabated.  This kind of thing cannot go on indefinitely, and the U.S. cannot maintain its dominancy if the federal reserve keeps churning out the money.  They're extremely short sighted and I have a feeling they just don't care about future generations having to clean up their economic mess.

Christ this country is fucked.  (United States, that is).


That has been the case because the dollar is the world reserve currency. It gave the Fed a free ticket to print as much as it wants. Can this be sustained with China and Russia moving away from the existing status quo? If this is not sustained inflation will go up the roof in most developed countries and gold and bitcoin will become the safe heaven to store your money. One can be confiscated the other not. 
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October 08, 2019, 06:57:34 AM
Last edit: October 08, 2019, 07:15:15 AM by deisik
 #214

Christ this country is fucked.  (United States, that is)

We need a proper perspective on the situation

For example, the US may be fucked but it doesn't matter if the rest of the world is even more fucked up. So if the elites (world government, aliens, etc) keep things this way, the US is essentially okay. Regarding excessive money printing, it doesn't in the least affect the future generations, and for two good reasons

First, whatever insane amount of money gets printed, it is almost instantly balanced out by prices. Rising prices are a sort of knee-jerk reaction which resets the balance at a new level. And second, a new generation can just reset the currency itself (and start printing new money like never before)

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November 01, 2019, 10:35:09 PM
 #215


For example, the US may be fucked but it doesn't matter if the rest of the world is even more fucked up. So if the elites (world government, aliens, etc) keep things this way, the US is essentially okay. Regarding excessive money printing, it doesn't in the least affect the future generations, and for two good reasons

This really boils down to the imperial system.  The system makes sure that all countries are financially more unstable than the current imperial seat (which is the US today.)  Any government that doesn't implement policies that support this financial hierarchy (or the imperial command structure required to maintain it) is subject to negative propaganda, economic or financial destabilization, or regime change by coup, assassination, up to invasion.  (This hierarchy ensures that capital will flow up, and pain will flow down, thus stabilizing the system from the bad effects of money printing by the imperial elites.)

Perhaps the 'mildest' case of this imperialism in action was forcing Western Europe to inflate under the Plaza-Louvre accords of the 1980s in order to support an orderly deflation of the dollar bubble of the US's own making.  If the Europeans hadn't complied, proposed US protectionist policies would have devastated their exports, their economies, and the political futures of their leaders.

Among the bloodier cases of imperialist action must be sending money and arms to 'rebels' in Syria in 2011 to overthrow 'dictator' Assad (who had dared defy the empire,) ending up with hundreds of thousands of deaths in the civil war that followed.  We also have to mention the 1953 CIA-operated coup that overthrew the democratically elected prime minister of Iran and restored the Shah to power who became legendary for using torture and killing to protect his regime before he was popularly booted from power in 1979.  Granted, the Shah was OUR dictator.  See the expose by a US deep-state insider, 'Confessions of An Economic Hit Man,' for more of the same, over the mid-to-late 20th century.

First, whatever insane amount of money gets printed, it is almost instantly balanced out by prices. Rising prices are a sort of knee-jerk reaction which resets the balance at a new level. And second, a new generation can just reset the currency itself (and start printing new money like never before)

This view is problematic if you look at the last 30 years in the West.  The printed money only went to the lucky and the rich, so the general average inflation has been mild.  Crazy money printing and generalized reset by inflation are not at all what the Western elites want as a first choice, since it gives a bad rep to the money their print.  But it might be a last resort, right before the angry mobs are about to physically take the power from them.

Because of the imperial structure mentioned above, this last scenario has seldom, if ever, occurred in countries at the top of the system.
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