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Author Topic: Question about PoS algorithm  (Read 109 times)
Betwrong
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January 10, 2019, 05:15:52 PM
 #1

To ensure that it takes around 10 minutes on average to mine a new block, in Bitcoin's PoW consensus algorithm the difficulty adjusts every 2016 blocks. And then it takes around 10 minutes for the fastest/luckiest nod in the whole network to find a combination, a block = nonce + all the other info in the block, so that the hash of the block is started with a certain amount of zeros(or, in other words, is less than or equal to the current target). So, it's physically impossible to mine blocks much faster than every 10 minutes (sometimes it's possible to mine them a bit faster though).

My question is, how is this done in PoS? Since it can take only fractions of a second for a chosen validator to process all the needed data, how is this ensured that there is a certain interval between the blocks in PoS algorithm?

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January 10, 2019, 05:57:25 PM
Merited by Betwrong (1)
 #2

The specifics of every PoS algorithm are unique, but as a general rule, PoS algorithms require you to take "turns", and the more you stake, the more validation "turns" you get. If you try to validate when it is not your "turn", you are A) ignored. and B) will lose your stake if it is done fraudulently. There is no need for a difficulty level in PoS, because everyone is only allowed to participate up to the amount of money they invest. When it is your "turn", and a sufficient interval has passed from the last block, you get to validate.

"Turn" is defined loosely here, as there are usually multiple validators and complex algorithms to stipulate when you are allowed to validate. But a turn is a good metaphor for what happens.




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January 11, 2019, 12:08:35 AM
 #3

The specifics of every PoS algorithm are unique, but as a general rule, PoS algorithms require you to take "turns", and the more you stake, the more validation "turns" you get.

Thats because PoS is a rich get richer scam, and should be avoided at all costs.
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January 12, 2019, 02:35:14 PM
 #4

The specifics of every PoS algorithm are unique, but as a general rule, PoS algorithms require you to take "turns", and the more you stake, the more validation "turns" you get. If you try to validate when it is not your "turn", you are A) ignored. and B) will lose your stake if it is done fraudulently. There is no need for a difficulty level in PoS, because everyone is only allowed to participate up to the amount of money they invest. When it is your "turn", and a sufficient interval has passed from the last block, you get to validate.

"Turn" is defined loosely here, as there are usually multiple validators and complex algorithms to stipulate when you are allowed to validate. But a turn is a good metaphor for what happens.

Thanks for your reply! I think for a newbie account your comment is definitely worth a merit, so I'm giving you one. But, since you know the mechanism, can you please elaborate a bit more on that "sufficient interval" between blocks? Since there are no time consuming calculations, as we have in PoW algorithm, how the "delay", if I can put it that way, before appearance of a new block is achieved in PoS?

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umine
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January 12, 2019, 05:58:00 PM
 #5

I would suggest to read about Peercoin (PPC) and Novacoin (NVC). These coins are the long-ago coins using POS algorithm. It will allow you to understand POS consensus system more clearly

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January 14, 2019, 06:02:09 PM
 #6

I would suggest to read about Peercoin (PPC) and Novacoin (NVC). These coins are the long-ago coins using POS algorithm. It will allow you to understand POS consensus system more clearly

Actually I did read about Peercoin (PPC) and Novacoin (NVC) before starting this thread, and I didn't find the answer to my question there.

For example, I read about Peercoin here:

https://university.peercoin.net/#/9-peercoin-proof-of-stake-consensus

Also I found the following info

Quote
Transactions are recorded in the Peercoin blockchain (a ledger held by most clients), a new block is added to the blockchain with a targeted time of 10 minutes (whenever a small enough hash value is found for the proof-of-work scheme)

here: https://en.bitcoinwiki.org/wiki/Peercoin

which I presume is wrong, because how it's different from PoW algorithm then?

Can you maybe recommend other sources regarding the answer to my question in the OP?

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January 14, 2019, 06:19:36 PM
Merited by Betwrong (1)
 #7

Just a small correction:
So, it's physically impossible to mine blocks much faster than every 10 minutes (sometimes it's possible to mine them a bit faster though).
This is not entirely true. It takes 10 minutes on average to mine a block. Because luck is involved, it may happen that you mine the next block right after the previous one, a couple of seconds apart from each other. Or the next block may take 20 minutes to mine. All you can say is that if you take a long period of time, like a week or so, the average time between 2 blocks will be close to 10 minutes.

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January 16, 2019, 09:53:49 AM
 #8

Just a small correction:
So, it's physically impossible to mine blocks much faster than every 10 minutes (sometimes it's possible to mine them a bit faster though).
This is not entirely true. It takes 10 minutes on average to mine a block. Because luck is involved, it may happen that you mine the next block right after the previous one, a couple of seconds apart from each other. Or the next block may take 20 minutes to mine. All you can say is that if you take a long period of time, like a week or so, the average time between 2 blocks will be close to 10 minutes.

You are right, I should have formulated it better. Even when the probability of an event is extremely low, we shouldn't say it's "physically impossible" to happen.

The fun part is that when trying to find out what was the shortest interval between blocks, you can run into a negative time difference even, due to inaccuracy of the timestamps. For example the interval between blocks 156113 and 156114 is around minus two hours. Smiley

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