FortuneJack Casino Refuses to Pay 20 BTC Won From Jackpot!

[Lauda]

My whole problem would be the fact he was allowed to play for apparently 13 hours.

Timezone also plays a role. They seem to be mostly around during the 8 to 5 workday (Curacao time).

1- why did you wait all this long to post on scam accusation, and if you were 100% sure you are right, why did you accept a compensation of 0.2btc only?

Apparently he gambled away his bug bounty. Unless something else was meant with the 'lost' statement by FJ.

2- if you were so sure this player was abusing a bug on your system, why did you have to compensate him + give him his deposit back?

Good question. Although they seem to have some sort of bug bounty, I wouldn't award anything to an abuser.

So was this game Adrenaline possible to lose at? Or could you only win. Surely there are safeguards that would trigger and alert somebody that there is somethin irregular happening in a game.

Apparently it bugged out at some point which led to 70 consecutive wins.

At some point of the game, severe bug affected the play of some players online at that very moment. This is the moment when player Verusfides set auto cash out on 60. As you see from his bet history game starts to bug, and every bet turns out to be won and player suddenly after realizing this firstly doubles the bet and continues to play the bugged game and after 20 minutes or so raises auto cash out from 60 to 200 continuing to stream money from the bugged game. As you see in history, every single bet is won, and I am talking about 70 consecutive bets.

What would happen if you were in a real casino and knew a slot machine was broken in such a way that the casino no longer had the edge, and the casino didn't happen to know that.  You use the broken machine to win some money that you later bet on the blackjack table--and you win big there.  Should the casino honor any of your bets?  I really don't know the rules, but it seems sketchy on the gambler's part in that case, because he knows he's playing a broken machine.  Sure you could say, "Well, that's not my problem, it's the casino's" but that doesn't sound right to me.

You'd get stripped away from all winnings and get kicked out. It would be similar to how they handle people that attempt cheating in 'traditional' ways.

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[verusfides]

I have not gone into much details of your problem, i don't know if you got scammed or trying to scam but I skimmed real fast though the comments and here is a thing you should know

- You still reserve the right to file a lawsuit even after accepting compensation as long as you have not signed a legal agreement that forbids you from suing them for the exact same case , if you signed on something like that, then it's game over, if not ! then you can still demand your 20btc + compensation.


depending on the proof / judge and what law-zone the website is obligated to follow your chances of winning the case can very from guaranteed to nothing.
20BTC is a lot of money, call a lawyer and seek advice, but keep in mind if you are attempting to b.s and they can prove anything against you, you can be in deep shit too.

however there are two things i find "funny" from both of you

This goes to you .

1- why did you wait all this long to post on scam accusation, and if you were 100% sure you are right, why did you accept a compensation of 0.2btc only?

This goes to  FortuneJack

2- if you were so sure this player was abusing a bug on your system, why did you have to compensate him + give him his deposit back?

I was told no matter what they couldn't do anything more for me regarding the situation at the time. I kept pushing which is why we're here now also it's because the original post was started on their thread page and I was suggested by another user to come here and I sought this page as a way of expanding my case and get more awareness from other users and not just from the users of the FortuneJack web page.

Original post can be found here starts at I believe page 305 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=774929.6160

[verusfides]

My whole problem would be the fact he was allowed to play for apparently 13 hours.

Timezone also plays a role. They seem to be mostly around during the 8 to 5 workday (Curacao time).

1- why did you wait all this long to post on scam accusation, and if you were 100% sure you are right, why did you accept a compensation of 0.2btc only?

Apparently he gambled away his bug bounty. Unless something else was meant with the 'lost' statement by FJ.

2- if you were so sure this player was abusing a bug on your system, why did you have to compensate him + give him his deposit back?

Good question. Although they seem to have some sort of bug bounty, I wouldn't award anything to an abuser.

So was this game Adrenaline possible to lose at? Or could you only win. Surely there are safeguards that would trigger and alert somebody that there is somethin irregular happening in a game.

Apparently it bugged out at some point which led to 70 consecutive wins.

At some point of the game, severe bug affected the play of some players online at that very moment. This is the moment when player Verusfides set auto cash out on 60. As you see from his bet history game starts to bug, and every bet turns out to be won and player suddenly after realizing this firstly doubles the bet and continues to play the bugged game and after 20 minutes or so raises auto cash out from 60 to 200 continuing to stream money from the bugged game. As you see in history, every single bet is won, and I am talking about 70 consecutive bets.

What would happen if you were in a real casino and knew a slot machine was broken in such a way that the casino no longer had the edge, and the casino didn't happen to know that.  You use the broken machine to win some money that you later bet on the blackjack table--and you win big there.  Should the casino honor any of your bets?  I really don't know the rules, but it seems sketchy on the gambler's part in that case, because he knows he's playing a broken machine.  Sure you could say, "Well, that's not my problem, it's the casino's" but that doesn't sound right to me.

Stripped away from all winnings and possibly get kicked out. Similar to the people that try cheating in other ways.

See this is another problem I'm having with the way he's telling the story to people. The story he told me had me convinced they knew of this situation hours before hand and that they were well aware of the game causing this problem.

[vlom]

they knew of this situation hours before hand and that they were well aware of the game causing this problem.

if they knew that the game had an error and kept it open then its all their fault and they have to pay.

[DarkStar_]

they knew of this situation hours before hand and that they were well aware of the game causing this problem.

if they knew that the game had an error and kept it open then its all their fault and they have to pay.

There is also the fact that verusfides had a good plinko seed. Had he have lost all of his money, he may have decided to redeposit and still end up playing plinko, winning the jackpot. It's not uncommon for gamblers to keep adding more money when they lose.

In my opinion, he should be paid out for the plinko jackpot as it was a legitimate win; there was no bug on plinko. All other losses should be deducted from the plinko win amount. Perhaps all of his Adrenaline bets could be fixed to show the correct winning/losing amount, and have his net loss/profit added to his plinko win amount.

[verusfides]

they knew of this situation hours before hand and that they were well aware of the game causing this problem.

if they knew that the game had an error and kept it open then its all their fault and they have to pay.

Which is why I have been so adamant and relentless thus far in my attempt to request they refund my jackpot.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

if they knew that the game had an error and kept it open then its all their fault and they have to pay.

See, I would agree with this but how the hell do you prove that?  It also wouldn't make sense unless FJ really thought OP was going to lose everything.  Otherwise it would make more sense for the casino to step in and put a stop to it before a problem like this arose.  The only thing the casino would have to gain would be OP's original deposit, right?  I mean in the case that FJ knew it would eventually deny his claim to his winnings and let him play anyway.  

I don't know if FJ would do that; if it would be worth the hassle for them; and how anyone could show their intent to do that.  Again, I'm not really taking FJ's side, but I'm looking at OP's assertion with a skeptical eye.

Edit:

there is to much money on the table to hope that everybody is honest...... maybe somebody can prove it.

You got that right.  And what DarkStar_ said basically what I said, the whole thing rests on whether they knew about the bug and chose not to fix it and let OP continue to play in the hopes that he'd lose his original deposit.  I'm not sure a reputational smear is worth that for a casino, but who knows. 

[teeGUMES]

Say verusfides never tried to withdraw(that was halted and needed further approval).. continued to play with the 2btc he had won.. loses it all. Stops playing. Would FortuneJack have contacted him that the game he was playing was bugged and caused him to lose his initial deposit and that they would refund it for him.

[DarkStar_]

The only thing the casino would have to gain would be OP's original deposit, right?

After the bug occurred, in FortuneJack's point of view, there is no point in fixing his balance until the player decides to withdraw everything. All FortuneJack has to gain is verusfides's deposit, but they have nothing to lose. If verusfides won (like in this case), they could blame the bug, and return only his deposit. FortuneJack is basically freerolling verusfides - letting them place bets, taking his money if he lost, and not paying out if he won. This is not okay.

I don't know if there was more malice behind this, but if FortuneJack knew verusfides was a plinko player and had a good plinko win coming up from his seed, they might have wanted him to win using "fake balance" to avoid paying out a large win.

Say verusfides never tried to withdraw(that was halted and needed further approval).. continued to play with the 2btc he had won.. loses it all. Stops playing. Would FortuneJack have contacted him that the game he was playing was bugged and caused him to lose his initial deposit and that they would refund it for him.

I bet the answer would be no.

[vlom]

if they knew that the game had an error and kept it open then its all their fault and they have to pay.

See, I would agree with this but how the hell do you prove that?

dont know.

but OP writes:

TL;DR Won a total of 22 BTC -20 from Plinko jackpot 1000x and 2 from Adrenaline. Fortunejack siezed all earnings claiming a bug from the game Adrenaline which was advertised by them.

and i dont know if this is true or not.

thats why I wrote "if they knew".

there is to much money on the table to hope that everybody is honest...... maybe somebody can prove it.

[Hhampuz]

I don't know if there was more malice behind this, but if FortuneJack knew verusfides was a plinko player and had a good plinko win coming up from his seed, they might have wanted him to win using "fake balance" to avoid paying out a large win.

This seems like a conspiracy theory at best, do you really think they are monitoring players like that? Especially ones who make a 0.009BTC deposit?

[teeGUMES]

I don't know if there was more malice behind this, but if FortuneJack knew verusfides was a plinko player and had a good plinko win coming up from his seed, they might have wanted him to win using "fake balance" to avoid paying out a large win.

This seems like a conspiracy theory at best, do you really think they are monitoring players like that? Especially ones who make a 0.009BTC deposit?

Probably not if they aren't even monitoring their own games paying 70 consecutive wins in a row and immediately contacting the effected players.

[Bazinga442]

At some point of the game, severe bug affected the play of some players online at that very moment. This is the moment when player Verusfides set auto cash out on 60. As you see from his bet history game starts to bug, and every bet turns out to be won and player suddenly after realizing this firstly doubles the bet and continues to play the bugged game and after 20 minutes or so raises auto cash out from 60 to 200 continuing to stream money from the bugged game. As you see in history, every single bet is won, and I am talking about 70 consecutive bets.

What would happen if you were in a real casino and knew a slot machine was broken in such a way that the casino no longer had the edge, and the casino didn't happen to know that.  You use the broken machine to win some money that you later bet on the blackjack table--and you win big there.  Should the casino honor any of your bets?  I really don't know the rules, but it seems sketchy on the gambler's part in that case, because he knows he's playing a broken machine.  Sure you could say, "Well, that's not my problem, it's the casino's" but that doesn't sound right to me.

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You'd get stripped away from all winnings and get kicked out. It would be similar to how they handle people that attempt cheating in 'traditional' ways.

Hogwash. Your attempts to paint the OP as an abuser and a cheat is lame.

In FortuneJack's thread own words:

The Player himself is a very gentle and polite human, and casino staff shared deep sympathy towards him, but in this case, there is nothing else we could do. We are deeply sorry for the inconvenience, but consider that our treatment, in this case, is entirely fair.

Why are they sympathetic towards the OP if he is a cheat? It makes no sense at all.
 

[yahoo62278]

they knew of this situation hours before hand and that they were well aware of the game causing this problem.

if they knew that the game had an error and kept it open then its all their fault and they have to pay.

There is also the fact that verusfides had a good plinko seed. Had he have lost all of his money, he may have decided to redeposit and still end up playing plinko, winning the jackpot. It's not uncommon for gamblers to keep adding more money when they lose.

In my opinion, he should be paid out for the plinko jackpot as it was a legitimate win; there was no bug on plinko. All other losses should be deducted from the plinko win amount. Perhaps all of his Adrenaline bets could be fixed to show the correct winning/losing amount, and have his net loss/profit added to his plinko win amount.

FJ is going to claim he would have not had the funds to make the bet on plinko had he not bet the buggy game 1st. We have no idea how much btc the OP has and whether he would have redopsited on plinko trying to win. The winning bet was rather high(.025btc i believe) and compared to his .0094 initial deposit amount, I would guess the OP would not have been betting .025 bets on his own money.(Obviously i could be wrong but the facts show this to be a reasonable assumption.)

IMO FJ was contacted by multiple players(see quote below) and was aware the game was buggy. How long between the players reporting the bugs and the bug being fixed? Why were the players testing the game with real money? If you're gonna basically run a BETA test, why not use the FJ currency as mentioned by someone before in this soon to be mega thread?

If players are risking real money seems like FJ is saying we are willing to take the loss?

In reality, the OP most likely would not have won a 20btc jackpot on his own funds, but the bug issue is so fucked up I almost think FJ has no choice here but to pay the Jackpot. They took the risk to let the public use real money for testing their new game, they should assume the risks of the events that transpired after his play on the bugged game.

[TheNewAnon135246]

They only way to truely settle something like this is by getting a lawyer. Everybody is dying to give you their opinion on this but it isn't going to help you at all.

[DarkStar_]

I don't know if there was more malice behind this, but if FortuneJack knew verusfides was a plinko player and had a good plinko win coming up from his seed, they might have wanted him to win using "fake balance" to avoid paying out a large win.

This seems like a conspiracy theory at best, do you really think they are monitoring players like that? Especially ones who make a 0.009BTC deposit?

Emphasis on "more malice". I highly doubt this is the case, but it is a possibility. I think it's most likely that FortuneJack is incompetent and/or wanted to freeroll verusfides. Occam's razor.

[yahoo62278]

Why are they sympathetic towards the OP if he is a cheat? It makes no sense at all.
 

OP is no saint here. He could have showed good moral judgement and messaged support. He instead decided to exploit the bug and ended up hitting a jackpot. Be it not for FJ irresponsible error of letting the public play a possibly buggy game with real money(all new games could have bugs, this is why you do BETA tests first), I would be vote for the casino.

[Hhampuz]

I don't know if there was more malice behind this, but if FortuneJack knew verusfides was a plinko player and had a good plinko win coming up from his seed, they might have wanted him to win using "fake balance" to avoid paying out a large win.

This seems like a conspiracy theory at best, do you really think they are monitoring players like that? Especially ones who make a 0.009BTC deposit?

Probably not if they aren't even monitoring their own games paying 70 consecutive wins in a row and immediately contacting the effected players.

I guess that depends on several factors such as:

Do they have a specific system in place that can detect undetected bugs?
Did they have the correct personnel available at the time? (They should at all times, but perhaps they didn't at this time, right?)
Do they have it as normal protocol to monitor all games at all times? (Like some high tech security center at a vegas casino ((doubt it))).

[DarkStar_]

I don't know if there was more malice behind this, but if FortuneJack knew verusfides was a plinko player and had a good plinko win coming up from his seed, they might have wanted him to win using "fake balance" to avoid paying out a large win.

This seems like a conspiracy theory at best, do you really think they are monitoring players like that? Especially ones who make a 0.009BTC deposit?

Probably not if they aren't even monitoring their own games paying 70 consecutive wins in a row and immediately contacting the effected players.

I guess that depends on several factors such as:

Do they have a specific system in place that can detect undetected bugs?
Did they have the correct personnel available at the time? (They should at all times, but perhaps they didn't at this time, right?)
Do they have it as normal protocol to monitor all games at all times? (Like some high tech security center at a vegas casino ((doubt it))).

Not disagreeing with you, but it is pretty reasonable to have staff monitor a newly released game that was basically in a beta state where players were betting real money.

[teeGUMES]

I don't know if there was more malice behind this, but if FortuneJack knew verusfides was a plinko player and had a good plinko win coming up from his seed, they might have wanted him to win using "fake balance" to avoid paying out a large win.

This seems like a conspiracy theory at best, do you really think they are monitoring players like that? Especially ones who make a 0.009BTC deposit?

Probably not if they aren't even monitoring their own games paying 70 consecutive wins in a row and immediately contacting the effected players.

I guess that depends on several factors such as:

Do they have a specific system in place that can detect undetected bugs?
Did they have the correct personnel available at the time? (They should at all times, but perhaps they didn't at this time, right?)
Do they have it as normal protocol to monitor all games at all times? (Like some high tech security center at a vegas casino ((doubt it))).

There have been and currently are companies large and small, that grow too fast too quick. They see the influx of money and profit coming in and they get greedy. They do not hire the correct amount of staff, instill the proper securities, and instead spend the money on marketing.
Any online casino/exchange that I can answer No to any single one of your questions asked would raise the largest red flag. (think exchange and you get a big ol clear picture of past happenings and why this should be worrying)

They only way to truely settle something like this is by getting a lawyer. Everybody is dying to give you their opinion on this but it isn't going to help you at all.

We all know why they're registered in some buttfuck nowhere shell company haven areas. So that lawyers don't even think it worthwhile to be involved.