[SUGGESTION] Show trust in beginners &help board

[bitmover]

I saw this thread today, about vanity generators and a scammer (already red tagged but nobody could see) was posting his phishing website .

Isn't this a nice opportunity to allow users to see trust in beginners board? Beginners are more easily scammed and this would give them an extra protection, even though this is not a marketplace board.

[1713261810]

1713261810

[1713261810]

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[1713261810]

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[LoyceMobile]

I vote for this!

[1miau]

I vote for this!

+100

And also make trust ratings visible for guests. Beginners and help is a section which is also often visited by guests which are not logged in and therefore can't see the trust score / links to the trust page of someone.

[suchmoon]

Just show it everywhere. Bunch of local boards have long-running scams in local alt sections etc. I can't understand why trust ratings need to be hidden there.

[Welsh]

And also make trust ratings visible for guests. Beginners and help is a section which is also often visited by guests which are not logged in and therefore can't see the trust score / links to the trust page of someone.

There's not much point to this. The thing is with trust is that people tend to judge users on their trust feedback, and therefore may dismiss valuable information. Guests will not be trading with users without registering an account. Therefore, they do not need to see the trust score of users as it would just affect their perception of the user by their trust score. Although, it's sensible to take trust score into consideration, many users with high trust scores are often wrong, and those with negative scores can  be right. It works both ways. Beginners, and help is mainly a board where someone is asking for help by asking "basic" questions or well discussed topics. Therefore, trust really isn't needed there. Could it be beneficial? Possibly, but I like the think that the trust system is mainly in use for trading. Merit is now the indicator to how well a user posts.

[1miau]

There's not much point to this. The thing is with trust is that people tend to judge users on their trust feedback, and therefore may dismiss valuable information.

Well, there are many cases where it will be beneficial to show trust for everyone. The case above is a very good example or all the ongoing (self-moderated (!)) ICO scams. Normal warnings will be deleted immediately there. If we enable trust visible for guests, everyone can go to the trust page and judge for himself. The important thing is that it's possible to see it, even if someone is not logged in.

[o_e_l_e_o]

Guests will not be trading with users without registering an account.

I disagree. In fact, I would wager that many scammers count on the fact that their trust score is not visible to guests to lure people in. There are hundreds of threads which give emails, phone numbers, WhatsApp, Telegram, Discords, ICQs, Skype, etc, to contact the seller, so they can sell to people without accounts. And then there are all the threads with auto-buy links, which are almost always scams. People can and do get sucked in to these scams without registering an account.

[Veleor]

Guests will not be trading with users without registering an account.

According to users complaints, you're wrong.

Non-registered users keep getting scammed by accounts already tagged as scammers because they can't see the warning:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3035620.msg33231264#msg33231264

I've PM'd theymos but haven't received any reply. I think this needs more attention

Just another example of a scam because guests can't see trust:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3295830.0

You know, these individuals were red-tagged...

The Trust rating is not shown when viewing forum as guest.
Is there a way for guests and new people who come from google searches to see it when they are not logged in?

Related threads:

• Theymos pls enable show trust rating on Bitcoin Discussion / Beginner's & Help
  
• Trust rating should be shown on all boards
  
• Why the trust is not shown in all sections
  
• Request: Show default trust on Marketplace for guests (non-registered users)
  
• No trust showing at Bitcoin Forum > Economy > Economics >
  
• Trust not shown in Marketplace section of Local boards
  
• Show "trust" in local boards | Some Child Boards
  
• Please show Trust in Project Development
  

[coinlocket$]

Just show it everywhere. Bunch of local boards have long-running scams in local alt sections etc. I can't understand why trust ratings need to be hidden there.

Agree, on our Italian section the trust is now shown at all is enabled only on the market section, it will be very much appreciated if we can enable on entire section.

[Welsh]

Alright, evidence has been shown that might indicate that trust ratings being visible to guests would be beneficial. However, I would still argue the fact that B&H, and other discussion based sections do not require visible trust ratings. ICO's should not be in the Beginners & Help section first of all. Therefore, we don't require trust ratings for that. Altcoin discussion, does not require it because topics there should be discussion. I think restricting the visibility of trust ratings in discussion sections is important to avoid bias. That might be just my personal opinion, but I like to think of this forum as a place of discussion before anything else. However, any section which has a trading/business aspect to it should include trust ratings, and maybe should be visible to guests in these sections too. I'm not sure how you would implement it judging on my concerns of bias, but maybe hiding trust by default on discussion sections, but if the user clicks on a user they can then see the trust to prevent automatic bias from kicking in.

As for local sections. Those that are without marketplace child boards etc should probably have trust ratings displayed by default.

[bitmover]

Alright, evidence has been shown that might indicate that trust ratings being visible to guests would be beneficial. However, I would still argue the fact that B&H, and other discussion based sections do not require visible trust ratings. ICO's should not be in the Beginners & Help section first of all. Therefore, we don't require trust ratings for that. A

I agree that ico should not be in beginners &help. However ico are not the only possible scam/phishing possibilities. There are different services which are discussed in beginners &help board: vanity addresses, mixers, exchanges,  wallets, to name a few.

All those services could possibly be used by a scammer to steal money from beginners.

A newbie could ask for a Wallet and a known scammer could just post a link to a phishing wallet address and scam him.

[Welsh]

I agree that ico should not be in beginners &help. However ico are not the only possible scam/phishing possibilities. There are different services which are discussed in beginners &help board: vanity addresses, mixers, exchanges,  wallets, to name a few.

All those services could possibly be used by a scammer to steal money from beginners.

Okay, so it's pretty obvious that I care for non bias discussion, and will try, and protect that as much as possible. However, I personally don't receive many reports for the Beginners, and help section, and honestly don't frequent it too often. Maybe, I'll have to dip my toes in more regularly. However, the things that you have mentioned there I would tend to argue that most of those belong elsewhere if they are discussing a service. Discussion such as Mixers, exchanges, and wallets belong in Service discussion, exchanges, and Bitcoin technical support/wallet child section retrospectively. Vanity addresses really does depend on the type of discussion being had. If they are generic questions then Beginners & Help is more often than not the best place. However, usually these topics could fit elsewhere for a better representation. What Beginners & Help is good for is "basic" questions such as "What is a physical Bitcoin" or "what is mining?" etc.

A newbie could ask for a Wallet and a known scammer could just post a link to a phishing wallet address and scam him.

Okay, so I would prefer to implement a different solution to try, and protect bias discussion. What I would recommend in these instances is including a sticky for newbie safety (which has already been done) and yeah I am aware that the majority of users on the forum will outright ignore sticky threads. But, what if we were to implement a warning when clicking on a link "You are leaving Bitcointalk. This link may be unsafe, please confirm its safe before proceeding" something like that. Many sites do this, and I'm not sure if it even works, honestly. However, I like the idea of protecting Bitcoin users. But, they also need to do their own research, and learn. If we put all the warnings in place to prevent scamming from happening while minimally impacting other parts of the forum I would prefer to take that approach. I'm not totally against having trust ratings visible, honestly. However, I think I would prefer not too, because of the impact on bias. Basically, we'll see a lot of trusted members having their words taken as the be all and end all when that is rarely the case.

[vit05]

Theymos have already spoken that he intends to allow guest to visualize the trust. And it seems to me that he should expand to other sections as well. Trust has never been just a business issue, in many cases it is a matter of trusting the information offered by that user.

The main reason that I went for this solution rather than forcing custom lists is that I would like to show some trust indicator to guests. But before doing that, I want to see whether these modifications can actually be made to work. If not, then I may go to the force-custom-lists solution, and that's incompatible with guests seeing any trust indicators.

[mikeywith]

you can't protect everybody everywhere, this could bring more harm. Welsh gave a better explanation of what i had in mind

There's not much point to this. The thing is with trust is that people tend to judge users on their trust feedback, and therefore may dismiss valuable information. Guests will not be trading with users without registering an account. Therefore, they do not need to see the trust score of users as it would just affect their perception of the user by their trust score.

the main "issue" with the "trust" system is that it's not regulated by any means, people get positive/negative feedback for every kind of reason one can think of, most newbies or guests will probably not even bother read the reason for the tag. the moment they see those red warnings they will think whatever information there is bullshit and as Welsh said it will be dismissed.

rather than showing the trust score on that board, Mods should do their job by not allowing any selling/shilling there, and members should report those posts right away, the only board that members are allowed to trade is the Market place, and that's where you need to worry about trust, aside from that , i think everything should remain as it is.

[The Cryptovator]

I was made a post about it. Theymos pls enable show trust rating on Bitcoin Discussion / Beginner's & Help