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Author Topic: DigiPiglets - BTC Piggy Bank - Kickstarter Campaign live  (Read 749 times)
DigiPiglet
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April 03, 2019, 02:18:15 AM
 #21

Is the delivery "box"/envelope at least partially tamper proof, so we can see the piggy bank comes directly from you?

Not talking about labels here but actual physical protection of the label container (the piggy bank).

I understand this isn't made to store millions, but there's no way to know the 0.01s stored there aren't going to be worth those millions one day Smiley

We'll send the packages directly to the customer. As long as the sticker on the DigiPiglet is intact you can be confident your private key is safe. We are considering using security packaging, or a seal on the box. However, you can never achieve 100% security. If someone with the skills puts his mind into hacking you, he'll break through any amount of seals we put on the product. For the majority however, the sticker itself should do the trick. It will also motivate you to hodl, because once the seal is broken, you would throw it away. We'll instruct the users to only use the private key once for safety reasons.

As for your last point: highly agreed Smiley We'll do our best to make this method as safe as possible

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April 03, 2019, 06:40:53 AM
 #22

Is the delivery "box"/envelope at least partially tamper proof, so we can see the piggy bank comes directly from you?

Not talking about labels here but actual physical protection of the label container (the piggy bank).

I understand this isn't made to store millions, but there's no way to know the 0.01s stored there aren't going to be worth those millions one day Smiley

We'll send the packages directly to the customer. As long as the sticker on the DigiPiglet is intact you can be confident your private key is safe. We are considering using security packaging, or a seal on the box. However, you can never achieve 100% security. If someone with the skills puts his mind into hacking you, he'll break through any amount of seals we put on the product. For the majority however, the sticker itself should do the trick. It will also motivate you to hodl, because once the seal is broken, you would throw it away. We'll instruct the users to only use the private key once for safety reasons.

As for your last point: highly agreed Smiley We'll do our best to make this method as safe as possible

I am not sold on the idea that I would trust this piggy bank with millions of my own dollars. A piggy bank is basically a child's toy to save a few dollars and not a bank account or a serious investment tool to store millions of dollars. This is why I also never store large amounts of money on exchanges and also in online wallets.

I have a sound knowledge on creating my own secure paper wallets, so I am 100% sure that my private keys for my paper wallets are not compromised by someone else, so I will drop millions of dollars worth of bitcoins in them, but not on paper wallets that are created by someone else.  Roll Eyes Huh

Signature space for rent - PM me.
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April 03, 2019, 12:31:05 PM
 #23

I am not sold on the idea that I would trust this piggy bank with millions of my own dollars. A piggy bank is basically a child's toy to save a few dollars and not a bank account or a serious investment tool to store millions of dollars. This is why I also never store large amounts of money on exchanges and also in online wallets.

I have a sound knowledge on creating my own secure paper wallets, so I am 100% sure that my private keys for my paper wallets are not compromised by someone else, so I will drop millions of dollars worth of bitcoins in them, but not on paper wallets that are created by someone else.  Roll Eyes Huh

Well, people do trust Casascius with their coins, they even have a 1000 BTC coin, which is actually worth a couple of million USD.
I mean, I get that you think it's safer to just make your own paper wallet, but I really doubt that you could achieve perfect security, there's no such thing...

That said, I guess it's always safer to do everything yourself instead of trusting an external company.
However, I'd have no issue using this to store a couple of Bitcoins.

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April 03, 2019, 07:11:21 PM
 #24

I am not sold on the idea that I would trust this piggy bank with millions of my own dollars. A piggy bank is basically a child's toy to save a few dollars and not a bank account or a serious investment tool to store millions of dollars. This is why I also never store large amounts of money on exchanges and also in online wallets.

I have a sound knowledge on creating my own secure paper wallets, so I am 100% sure that my private keys for my paper wallets are not compromised by someone else, so I will drop millions of dollars worth of bitcoins in them, but not on paper wallets that are created by someone else.  Roll Eyes Huh

Well, people do trust Casascius with their coins, they even have a 1000 BTC coin, which is actually worth a couple of million USD.
I mean, I get that you think it's safer to just make your own paper wallet, but I really doubt that you could achieve perfect security, there's no such thing...

That said, I guess it's always safer to do everything yourself instead of trusting an external company.
However, I'd have no issue using this to store a couple of Bitcoins.
I cant even believe that Casascius do able to get that level of trust for some people with their coins but as expected that most of them do have thousands of BTC which
those coins wont really be that much for them to stored up or entrust with such service.
Its really more ideal or much preferable to have my own paper wallet than to entrust my millions rather than on other service but with this one, we arent being forced on using em
up though.

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eternalgloom
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April 04, 2019, 09:40:09 AM
 #25

I cant even believe that Casascius do able to get that level of trust for some people with their coins but as expected that most of them do have thousands of BTC which
those coins wont really be that much for them to stored up or entrust with such service.

I don't think there were that many made of the 1000 BTC coins, so it's not like that many people have them.
Still, there are a fair bit of the 1 BTC and higher ones in circulation, a lot of them haven't been cashed in yet either.

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April 09, 2019, 02:11:17 AM
Merited by eternalgloom (2)
 #26

Our first Samples arrived Cheesy They are designed to be a little squishy, so it can get quite addicting to play around with it Grin

Check out my Reddit thread for pictures and leave us a comment:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/bb235e/bitcoin_now_has_its_very_own_piggy_bank/

Hope someone can display the image from Reddit.

Our first 10 pre-orders will only pay for shipping and the BTC included (use "lucky10" at checkout).

What do you guys think?

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April 09, 2019, 09:08:06 AM
Last edit: April 09, 2019, 09:27:14 AM by eternalgloom
Merited by DigiPiglet (1)
 #27

Here you go:



Can't believe your post was downvoted so much on the Bitcoin subreddit.
I get that it's basically a commercial post, but it's still pretty cool to share I think.

Btw, if you're interested, I'd be willing to write a review of your product on my Steemit blog, which has around 850 followers.
No charge for the article itself, though it would be nice if you could send a piggy bank for free in exchange, so I can review it & add some original photographs.

You can see a review of my services here on CoinScribble

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April 09, 2019, 10:53:07 AM
 #28

Here you go:



Can't believe your post was downvoted so much on the Bitcoin subreddit.
I get that it's basically a commercial post, but it's still pretty cool to share I think.

Btw, if you're interested, I'd be willing to write a review of your product on my Steemit blog, which has around 850 followers.
No charge for the article itself, though it would be nice if you could send a piggy bank for free in exchange, so I can review it & add some original photographs.

You can see a review of my services here on CoinScribble

Thanks for positivity Grin I am definitely sending you a free DigiPiglet once we got the hologram design ready! I'll send you a PM!

I've been thinking about sending a few DigiPiglets to celebrities, important figures of crypto and opponents as well. Who should receive one?

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April 09, 2019, 11:09:52 AM
 #29

Thanks for positivity Grin I am definitely sending you a free DigiPiglet once we got the hologram design ready! I'll send you a PM!

I've been thinking about sending a few DigiPiglets to celebrities, important figures of crypto and opponents as well. Who should receive one?

That's really neat! I know my followers would be very interested in reading about this cool product Smiley

Ivan on Tech on Youtube would be a good choice as well.

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April 10, 2019, 02:20:18 PM
 #30

Nice work OP. Maybe this thread gets better traction in Marketplace? I don't get reddit sometimes too. I've seen innocent posts who're really just trying to share some Bitcoin joy get downvoted to obscurity. And then mindless pics of Bitcoin ATMs or Lambos get the thousands. But hey, who's still trying to figure out how social media works right?

1. Add an option to customise a little. Some small engraved message or something. Added incentive, and all that.

Thanks for positivity Grin I am definitely sending you a free DigiPiglet once we got the hologram design ready! I'll send you a PM!

I've been thinking about sending a few DigiPiglets to celebrities, important figures of crypto and opponents as well. Who should receive one?

That's really neat! I know my followers would be very interested in reading about this cool product Smiley

Ivan on Tech on Youtube would be a good choice as well.

If you're looking for crypto celebrities, I thought this "Villains of Bitcoin" playing/trading cards was a brilliant idea. Maybe all you artists should get together and cross-create from each other's ideas. That could be a shitty idea, I wouldn't know. Not exactly an art expert, as I keep getting told;)

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April 10, 2019, 08:27:11 PM
Last edit: April 11, 2019, 01:29:23 AM by DigiPiglet
 #31

Thanks so much for the feedback and the ideas guys! Highly appreciated ! Grin

I've started another thread in Marketplace/Collectibles, probably fits better here (thanks buwaytress). Leave us a comment if you like:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5130404.new#new

Meanwhile, Facebook has a problem with our little piglets:

https://ibb.co/SBNTwMq

The lizard people apparently see Bitcoin as their adversary Grin

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April 10, 2019, 09:28:11 PM
 #32

1) Where are you located? (i.e. from which country do you dispatch your products) I couldn't find that info on your site. Since there might occur import taxes (depending on your location & the dispatching locations)  I believe that this info should be mentioned somewhere
2) "each DigiPiglet will contain approximately €10 worth of Bitcoin as a starting credit." Are you going to use the bitcoin market value at the time of placing the order (for calculating those €10 into BTC), or at some time later on when you will be ready for dispatching (this info should be crystal clearl & available on your site FAQ)
3) Your idea is not 100% original. There are other companies with similar piggy bank products. What are the strengths of your product compared to what is currently available on the market?

Concerning the private key security issue: one of your competitor does the following: Displays the public address QR code directly to the plastic piggy on open view. Everyone can send BTC to that addy (hence it acts like a piggybank). When you would like to withdraw (i.e. break the piggybank in the traditional way, and collect the funds): the piggy comes with an opendime attached (and the public QR code addy derives from that opendime private key). Hence you break the opendime (instead of the piggy) and the private key is revealed. No private key trust issues here. Also (for more privacy) gives options for the customers to print the QR code itself and place it to the piggy (either from the included opendime or from any other opendime)
I do not want to mention the name of that company here (it would be unethical to do so on your topic, due to competition). I would gladly let you know through PM, however (for research purposes LOL).  Grin
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April 11, 2019, 09:03:30 AM
 #33

Just wanted to mention that I'll be doing a full review of this when it arrives.
I'll be publishing it on my Steemit blog, but I'll make sure to also write about my experiences here on Bitcointalk.

The first thing I have to say is that the ordering process went extremely well.
So many different payment methods (Bitcoin, Paypal, CC, bank deposit, etc.) & his website automatically fills in your address after you've typed a couple of letters.

Looking forward to seeing the BTC piggy bank arrive Smiley

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April 11, 2019, 01:47:06 PM
 #34

1) Where are you located? (i.e. from which country do you dispatch your products) I couldn't find that info on your site. Since there might occur import taxes (depending on your location & the dispatching locations)  I believe that this info should be mentioned somewhere
2) "each DigiPiglet will contain approximately €10 worth of Bitcoin as a starting credit." Are you going to use the bitcoin market value at the time of placing the order (for calculating those €10 into BTC), or at some time later on when you will be ready for dispatching (this info should be crystal clearl & available on your site FAQ)
3) Your idea is not 100% original. There are other companies with similar piggy bank products. What are the strengths of your product compared to what is currently available on the market?

Concerning the private key security issue: one of your competitor does the following: Displays the public address QR code directly to the plastic piggy on open view. Everyone can send BTC to that addy (hence it acts like a piggybank). When you would like to withdraw (i.e. break the piggybank in the traditional way, and collect the funds): the piggy comes with an opendime attached (and the public QR code addy derives from that opendime private key). Hence you break the opendime (instead of the piggy) and the private key is revealed. No private key trust issues here. Also (for more privacy) gives options for the customers to print the QR code itself and place it to the piggy (either from the included opendime or from any other opendime)
I do not want to mention the name of that company here (it would be unethical to do so on your topic, due to competition). I would gladly let you know through PM, however (for research purposes LOL).  Grin

1) We will be selling from Austria. You can buy Bitcoin in corner stores there. Legal pages for the website are in the works.
2) We'll set up a system, where the Bitcoin are purchased automatically with each sale. For now however, while we're in early stage, we'll buy Bitcoin manually to have it ready once the labels arrive. If the price happens to drop by the time we're ready to ship, we'll just make another market buy and hold the more expensive coins. I think it's quite possible that prices drop to 3k again. We'll make sure that this does not tarnish the user experience. Once the price starts becoming really volatile again though, we won't be able to guarantee that the 10€ will not turn into 5€ or 15€ while the piglets are being shipped over night. That's your typical crypto risk Grin
3) I think I know which project you are referring to, they have a different execution, different features, different advantages and disadvantages. Our design is unique, which makes it stand out more. The underlying "technology" we're using is very simple and requires no setup, no prior knowledge, no computer, literally nothing. Many other projects I've seen are geared towards people that know what they're doing and dealing with. Our goal is to win over those who doubt us, distrust us and don't see the value in it, and therefore don't want to learn anything about it. It's designed to be as simple as possible, requiring literally no steps if you just want to hold on and see where it goes. At the same time it's somewhat familiar, because we are and look like a piggy bank. By adding different models/animals, we increase the novelty character and it becomes a collectible.

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April 11, 2019, 04:13:58 PM
 #35

1) Where are you located? (i.e. from which country do you dispatch your products) I couldn't find that info on your site. Since there might occur import taxes (depending on your location & the dispatching locations)  I believe that this info should be mentioned somewhere
2) "each DigiPiglet will contain approximately €10 worth of Bitcoin as a starting credit." Are you going to use the bitcoin market value at the time of placing the order (for calculating those €10 into BTC), or at some time later on when you will be ready for dispatching (this info should be crystal clearl & available on your site FAQ)
3) Your idea is not 100% original. There are other companies with similar piggy bank products. What are the strengths of your product compared to what is currently available on the market?

Concerning the private key security issue: one of your competitor does the following: Displays the public address QR code directly to the plastic piggy on open view. Everyone can send BTC to that addy (hence it acts like a piggybank). When you would like to withdraw (i.e. break the piggybank in the traditional way, and collect the funds): the piggy comes with an opendime attached (and the public QR code addy derives from that opendime private key). Hence you break the opendime (instead of the piggy) and the private key is revealed. No private key trust issues here. Also (for more privacy) gives options for the customers to print the QR code itself and place it to the piggy (either from the included opendime or from any other opendime)
I do not want to mention the name of that company here (it would be unethical to do so on your topic, due to competition). I would gladly let you know through PM, however (for research purposes LOL).  Grin

1) We will be selling from Austria. You can buy Bitcoin in corner stores there. Legal pages for the website are in the works.
2) We'll set up a system, where the Bitcoin are purchased automatically with each sale. For now however, while we're in early stage, we'll buy Bitcoin manually to have it ready once the labels arrive. If the price happens to drop by the time we're ready to ship, we'll just make another market buy and hold the more expensive coins. I think it's quite possible that prices drop to 3k again. We'll make sure that this does not tarnish the user experience. Once the price starts becoming really volatile again though, we won't be able to guarantee that the 10€ will not turn into 5€ or 15€ while the piglets are being shipped over night. That's your typical crypto risk Grin
3) I think I know which project you are referring to, they have a different execution, different features, different advantages and disadvantages. Our design is unique, which makes it stand out more. The underlying "technology" we're using is very simple and requires no setup, no prior knowledge, no computer, literally nothing. Many other projects I've seen are geared towards people that know what they're doing and dealing with. Our goal is to win over those who doubt us, distrust us and don't see the value in it, and therefore don't want to learn anything about it. It's designed to be as simple as possible, requiring literally no steps if you just want to hold on and see where it goes. At the same time it's somewhat familiar, because we are and look like a piggy bank. By adding different models/animals, we increase the novelty character and it becomes a collectible.

thanks for the thoughtful explanation. concerning 2) what I meant was: If I place an order today, 10€ is approximately 0.0022BTC with today's market price. When I will receive the product, the loaded value will be 0.0022BTC? (i.e. it will be calculated based on the market price at the time of placing the order? it doesn't matter if the price of BTC increases or decreases since then. 0.0022BTC now will still be 0.0022BTC in the future LOL)

This might be a logistics issue for you, since every piggy will be loaded with a different amount of BTC based on the date the order was placed. Hence, will you consider this approach, or the other approach? (i.e. you will load all the piggy with the exact same amount of BTC, that reflects that 10€ at a specific predetermined date in the future when the product will be ready.. let's say at 1/8/2019)

BTW, I  already placed an order! looking forward to receive it  Grin
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April 11, 2019, 10:19:23 PM
 #36

thanks for the thoughtful explanation. concerning 2) what I meant was: If I place an order today, 10€ is approximately 0.0022BTC with today's market price. When I will receive the product, the loaded value will be 0.0022BTC? (i.e. it will be calculated based on the market price at the time of placing the order? it doesn't matter if the price of BTC increases or decreases since then. 0.0022BTC now will still be 0.0022BTC in the future LOL)

This might be a logistics issue for you, since every piggy will be loaded with a different amount of BTC based on the date the order was placed. Hence, will you consider this approach, or the other approach? (i.e. you will load all the piggy with the exact same amount of BTC, that reflects that 10€ at a specific predetermined date in the future when the product will be ready.. let's say at 1/8/2019)

BTW, I  already placed an order! looking forward to receive it  Grin

Thanks for the order, much appreciated Grin

If 0.0022BTC become 5€ by the time we are ready to ship to you, we'll add 5€, so that you receive the promised 10€. If 0.0022BTC become 20€ by the time we're ready to ship, you'll receive just that.

That's only for our pre-order stage though. Once everything is fully setup, the customers buy the piglet, our system buys 10€ worth of Bitcoin, we load that amount to the address and ship immediately.

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April 12, 2019, 11:16:39 AM
 #37

Have you considered selling these as DIY? I'd feel much more comfortable printing my own private keys and attaching them with a tamper proof hologram. Nothing personal but I don't know you and there is no way you can guarantee that you aren't storing the private keys somewhere.

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DigiPiglet
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April 12, 2019, 11:54:04 AM
 #38

Have you considered selling these as DIY? I'd feel much more comfortable printing my own private keys and attaching them with a tamper proof hologram. Nothing personal but I don't know you and there is no way you can guarantee that you aren't storing the private keys somewhere.

That totally works and makes it even easier for us. If you order the "nocrypto" version, we'll just put the security label next to the Digipiglet, and let you attach it yourself. Since we have to order the labels on bulk, we can't print "your" public key, so the key on the front will not match. But if a burglar not familiar with Bitcoin finds the code underneath the piglet and checks the front part, he'll just find an address with 0 funds, so our code becomes a decoy. Or we leave the code?

I strongly believe though, that the average user want's everything already setup and ready to use, which means we'll have to make sure that the security aspect is flawless.

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April 14, 2019, 08:11:38 AM
 #39

Have you considered selling these as DIY? I'd feel much more comfortable printing my own private keys and attaching them with a tamper proof hologram. Nothing personal but I don't know you and there is no way you can guarantee that you aren't storing the private keys somewhere.

That totally works and makes it even easier for us. If you order the "nocrypto" version, we'll just put the security label next to the Digipiglet, and let you attach it yourself. Since we have to order the labels on bulk, we can't print "your" public key, so the key on the front will not match. But if a burglar not familiar with Bitcoin finds the code underneath the piglet and checks the front part, he'll just find an address with 0 funds, so our code becomes a decoy. Or we leave the code?

I strongly believe though, that the average user want's everything already setup and ready to use, which means we'll have to make sure that the security aspect is flawless.


I do not get the security label? Do you still give a Bitcoin address & Private key with the "nocrypto" version, without attaching it to the device or is the security label not part of the Bitcoin address and Private key combo?

I should say having a code attached, will just give the thief a motive to steal the pig, because he/she would think that it has some coins deposited onto that Bitcoin address. The information should be hidden in a way for the average thief to think that it is just a toy and not something with value. <That would be the perfect decoy>  Wink

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April 14, 2019, 02:18:43 PM
Last edit: April 14, 2019, 03:09:11 PM by DigiPiglet
 #40

I do not get the security label? Do you still give a Bitcoin address & Private key with the "nocrypto" version, without attaching it to the device or is the security label not part of the Bitcoin address and Private key combo?

I should say having a code attached, will just give the thief a motive to steal the pig, because he/she would think that it has some coins deposited onto that Bitcoin address. The information should be hidden in a way for the average thief to think that it is just a toy and not something with value. <That would be the perfect decoy>  Wink

We're looking into if we can offer two separate versions, so you can chose from a generic label, and one with a public key and concealed private key. Having the private key "inserted" into the pig was the original idea, but I didn't want people to have to cut it open. I'll also consider offering two piglet versions, where one has the public key displayed, and one where it's concealed.

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