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Author Topic: Please DON'T pay any taxes on your crypto!  (Read 19814 times)
Lionel
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January 26, 2019, 09:02:56 AM
Merited by BitcSeo (5)
 #1

More and more countries, like Chile or India, are trying to tax their citizen for the crypto they hold.

Please don't pay taxes on your coins.
You really don't need it, unless you are totally ignorant.

It's simple: they cannot prove you have the coins on your PC/phone , so you don't have nothing to pay taxes on, as far as they know.
It's just their attempt to trick the ignorants that don't know about that Wink

Even if they look for your wallet on your PC/phone ,
your wallet data is not accessible to them because it's  encrypted with password  ( uhm.... have you set the password protection on your wallet... right? Wink ).

Of course you are not going to give them the wallet password.

Oh.. they tell you that you withdrawn the coins from an exchange,  so that's the proof you have the coins?
Just say that it was an hacker that stole your coins from the exchange,  not you.
You got robbed, and you don't have to pay taxes on the money that was stolen from you, right?

P.S. for the geeks: use Veracrypt Wink
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January 26, 2019, 10:36:56 AM
Merited by OmegaStarScream (1), pooya87 (1)
 #2

Does this mean you're willing to pay the fines or serve the jail time of every single person you encourage to this who gets nailed?

Either you stand behind your 'advice' or you don't. In most places the money needs to finish up in your bank if you want to spend it. Once it's in there you may have some explaining to do.

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January 26, 2019, 10:45:40 AM
 #3

any aw abiding citizen will pay his/her taxes, you should, too.
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January 26, 2019, 10:46:04 AM
 #4

maybe you can give an article about it, I think this is just a post that is not based on a trustworthy source
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January 26, 2019, 10:46:55 AM
 #5

Does this mean you're willing to pay the fines or serve the jail time of every single person you encourage to this who gets nailed?

Either you stand behind your 'advice' or you don't. In most places the money needs to finish up in your bank if you want to spend it. Once it's in there you may have some explaining to do.

Have to admit I’ve never paid a penny tax on my bitcoin’s. I sold all of my free BCH last year too & nothing happened Wink

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January 26, 2019, 10:49:57 AM
 #6

Have to admit I’ve never paid a penny tax on my bitcoin’s. I sold all of my free BCH last year too & nothing happened Wink

Soak your botty in vinegar in case you get the spanking of the century.

I think it's only the IRS who are flat out psychotic. Most other places it's taken on trust.

A pal of mine is a builder who's earned £800-£3000 a week for several decades and has never paid one penny in anything. Full marks for balls. I'd prefer a quiet life.

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January 26, 2019, 10:52:34 AM
 #7

Why not pay any taxes? This is necessary in a growing country and I think I’d better to pay the taxes than to be punished later on. So i think you have to follow the law and make a good contribution to your government, its good to be good sometimes.
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January 26, 2019, 10:59:09 AM
 #8

A small contribution can make a big impact in the future especially to the developing country. I know some government are corrupt but if you try to avoid taxes, maybe you can consider yourself as corrupt too.

You can just declare a small amount of money and be a good citizen to help the government to grow.. Taxes is fine for me, but I don’t know why cryptocurrency is not taxable in my country. Well, for sure it will happen in the future so just enjoy if its still not taxable but if there’s already law better to follow that one.
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January 26, 2019, 11:04:09 AM
 #9

Does this mean you're willing to pay the fines or serve the jail time of every single person you encourage to this who gets nailed?

Either you stand behind your 'advice' or you don't. In most places the money needs to finish up in your bank if you want to spend it. Once it's in there you may have some explaining to do.
Absolutely right. Besides that the bankers can easily know that the money getting credited in our bank account is crypto related if we are withdrawing it from an exchange.
This is where the peer to peer exchange helps us out. I have been using p2p exchange from quite some time now without any hassles.
I am from India and there are no such rules here to pay any taxes fro crypto because the government hasn't made any decisions on crypto regulations in India yet.
But the banks have already started to seize accounts which has crypto related transactions. it's all a messed up situation here from the past few months.



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January 26, 2019, 11:13:40 AM
 #10

Does this mean you're willing to pay the fines or serve the jail time of every single person you encourage to this who gets nailed?

Either you stand behind your 'advice' or you don't. In most places the money needs to finish up in your bank if you want to spend it. Once it's in there you may have some explaining to do.

Technically speaking what you say means you're paying taxes on the fiat, not the crypto you hold.

It's a grey area in my country too, once they see <<<<<real>>>>> money in your account, "where does this come from" questions start to be raised.

But this also means that if you can use your crypto instead, you're probably going to be just fine. That's why the OP is technically correct, you'll never have to pay taxes on crypto. Or in case you really need real life cash, try to use routes that won't be monitored by institutions.

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January 26, 2019, 11:20:42 AM
 #11

OP may have no idea what it can cost to cheat the taxes department, if he is ok to pay a fine or go to jail then that's cool, but personally no thanks, I have better to do and responsibilities. OP is surely not a tax eligible person.

Yes sure, they can't know what wallet you own and where and bla bla bla. But did you forget then they do have access to your bank activities? Are you aware than bank accounts owned by the crypto exchanges are well know from the authorities?

I know in less than 5 years we will see some waves of threads from people crying they got busted and they're now in troubles.
Yes some people say they never paid any penny for the taxes, but don't forget the governments are still watching the industry to know how to tax it (assets, income, ...) it's inevitable that after this they will tax as others gain you may have and some countries are already doing it. If you think your governments will let you make money without getting their share, you're wrong.

Also, I would like to add, you may cheat the system for a while, but they will always come to you soon or later.

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January 26, 2019, 11:20:52 AM
 #12

More and more countries, like Chile or India, are trying to tax their citizen for the crypto they hold.

Please don't pay taxes on your coins.
You really don't need it, unless you are totally ignorant.

It's simple: they cannot prove you have the coins on your PC/phone , so you don't have nothing to pay taxes on, as far as they know.
It's just their attempt to trick the ignorants that don't know about that Wink

Even if they look for your wallet on your PC/phone ,
your wallet data is not accessible to them because it's  encrypted with password  ( uhm.... have you set the password protection on your wallet... right? Wink ).

Of course you are not going to give them the wallet password.

Oh.. they tell you that you withdrawn the coins from an exchange,  so that's the proof you have the coins?
Just say that it was an hacker that stole your coins from the exchange,  not you.
You got robbed, and you don't have to pay taxes on the money that was stolen from you, right?

P.S. for the geeks: use Veracrypt Wink
It is not that we need to pay any taxes directly for the amount of cryptocurrencies we hold but indirectly the taxes are been cut down unknowingly and we actually don't even come to know about it.
Any time i sell/buy some of my coins, a unknown tax is been always deducted from my bank account which i use to encash my coins.

 
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January 26, 2019, 11:23:11 AM
Merited by Foxpup (3)
 #13

I wouldn't suggest anyone taking legal advises here or anywhere online. In addition to what has been said above, one should take in consideration that an exchange might be forced to give user's info to the government so It's just better to simply follow the laws and regulations If you don't want to run into trouble afterward.


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January 26, 2019, 11:26:53 AM
 #14

I know that you have a good intention in this post but some people that read this might follow you and might end up in big trouble. They have their own regulations pertaining Bitcoin and crypto currencies in their country and as a citizen of that country, they should follow it. We don't know what might happen to them if they followed your suggestion but all we know is that they should obey the rules.

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January 26, 2019, 11:36:29 AM
 #15

It makes no sense to pay tax if you only hold some cryptocurrency, and I think it is quite clear and logical move. On the other side if you are active trader or you convert crypto to fiat on a regular basis, you becoming visible to the tax system. But it is also depends about the country where people live, some countries regulate this area, others have no law in that regard.

There is a saying that in life people can not escape two things, death and tax - but I would not entirely agree with that when it comes to cryptocurrency. It's all about how person comes into possession of crypto, so if you buy direct from some person by using LocalBitcoins then you can sell on the same way and avoid tax. Also good way is to buy things directly with crypto and then sell those things for fiat. But in this case you will pay VAT on product, which in some cases can be same or even bigger then regular tax - only benefit will be saving time on tax paper work.

Some countries like Germany are crypto tax haven, if you buy and hold your coins 1+ year there is no need to pay any tax after that. Denmark was also very open and liberal country towards cryptocurrency with no tax, but recenty they change their minds, and they went to hunt their citizens in order to collect some tax _ https://cointelegraph.com/news/denmark-targets-2-700-bitcoin-traders-for-tax-payments-after-tip-off-from-finland


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January 26, 2019, 11:36:59 AM
 #16

I wouldn't suggest anyone taking legal advises here or anywhere online. In addition to what has been said above, one should take in consideration that an exchange might be forced to give user's info to the government so It's just better to simply follow the laws and regulations If you don't want to run into trouble afterward.


Yeah, cryptoexchanges will be regulated and there is no other way to tax you aside from increasing the fees of that exchange. You may not pay directly the taxes but for sure the exchanges will collect it for the government. Follow the regulations and trade smoothly without experiencing any interruption from the exchanges.

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January 26, 2019, 11:47:34 AM
 #17

Your post shows the ignorance of how the tax law works. One fact there is you are by default expected to disclose all our income when you are filing your returns whether its going to be seen or not and its for your own good because if you choose to not disclose, you better be able to have other means of getting money to support your lifestyle and a backup to have enough in your bank account because if you don't, there will always be a connection. You earn salary, which is paid in your account, you are expected to file a return, the same thing with your company. The same thing goes to every company you visited to buy as little as groceries. So, its all connected when they have your time, you wish you didn't hide anything.
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January 26, 2019, 11:54:42 AM
 #18

Technically speaking what you say means you're paying taxes on the fiat, not the crypto you hold.

It's a grey area in my country too, once they see <<<<<real>>>>> money in your account, "where does this come from" questions start to be raised.

But this also means that if you can use your crypto instead, you're probably going to be just fine. That's why the OP is technically correct, you'll never have to pay taxes on crypto. Or in case you really need real life cash, try to use routes that won't be monitored by institutions.

Everything depends on your jurisdiction of course, but in many a place you don't need to be converting to fiat to be liable for tax. You could be earning in crypto and for many income tax applies. It's the same as earning in a foreign currency, just because it's not local money doesn't mean you're magically exempt.

The chances are high you'll get away with it, but we don't know how good surveillance will become in the coming years and in most places they can chase you for tax due many years in the past.

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January 26, 2019, 12:01:16 PM
 #19

I think making regulations must pay taxes if we have bitcoin or cryptocurrency that is something that is not clear because the tax cannot recognize people who have cryptocurrency or not. if you are asked to pay taxes, then just say you don't have it.

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January 26, 2019, 12:03:51 PM
 #20

More and more countries, like Chile or India, are trying to tax their citizen for the crypto they hold.

Please don't pay taxes on your coins.
You really don't need it, unless you are totally ignorant.

It's simple: they cannot prove you have the coins on your PC/phone , so you don't have nothing to pay taxes on, as far as they know.
It's just their attempt to trick the ignorants that don't know about that Wink

Even if they look for your wallet on your PC/phone ,
your wallet data is not accessible to them because it's  encrypted with password  ( uhm.... have you set the password protection on your wallet... right? Wink ).

Of course you are not going to give them the wallet password.

Oh.. they tell you that you withdrawn the coins from an exchange,  so that's the proof you have the coins?
Just say that it was an hacker that stole your coins from the exchange,  not you.
You got robbed, and you don't have to pay taxes on the money that was stolen from you, right?

P.S. for the geeks: use Veracrypt Wink

What nonsense? None of the countries ask for tax on Crypto holding. They're asking for tax only when you are converting Crytp to FIAT. There's no way you can hide that unless you are solely living on cash.

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January 26, 2019, 12:15:58 PM
 #21

Your post shows the ignorance -snip-

“Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves.”
― Henry David Thoreau

I don't think he was purposely ignorant, those are just views of somebody that was given a chance to have and make them in to reality. That was the whole point of crypto wasn't it? To give us true financial independence. No one can be ostracized for utilizing that built in feature of cryptocurrency's technology.

“Quod timet servit.” (those in fear are slaves)
―Seneca the Younger

This brave fellow is just saying what you all* are only dreaming of!
Some members above already have implied and actively called for group responsibility...
You know that this is one way ticket, one way ticket to world totalitarian government, called nwo.


 
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January 26, 2019, 12:30:38 PM
 #22

More and more countries, like Chile or India, are trying to tax their citizen for the crypto they hold.

Please don't pay taxes on your coins.
You really don't need it, unless you are totally ignorant.

It's simple: they cannot prove you have the coins on your PC/phone , so you don't have nothing to pay taxes on, as far as they know.
It's just their attempt to trick the ignorants that don't know about that Wink

Even if they look for your wallet on your PC/phone ,
your wallet data is not accessible to them because it's  encrypted with password  ( uhm.... have you set the password protection on your wallet... right? Wink ).

Of course you are not going to give them the wallet password.

Oh.. they tell you that you withdrawn the coins from an exchange,  so that's the proof you have the coins?
Just say that it was an hacker that stole your coins from the exchange,  not you.
You got robbed, and you don't have to pay taxes on the money that was stolen from you, right?

P.S. for the geeks: use Veracrypt Wink

I partially agree with what you say. Countries cannot demand tax from anybody without a legal arrangement. After that, taxation will not be easy. Because cryptocurrencies are in a structure that cannot be traced. So when you determine how much money you have is not easy. Especially when the global crypto money exchanges are active.
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January 26, 2019, 01:05:43 PM
 #23


Do you mean people that work outside and pay tax all the time are ignorant ? Yes they are maybe only if the leader of their country is corrupt but if you are sure that the president or the governant on your country is legit then your doing a good job because your helping your place to develop .  on crypto we arent paying a tax here but tx fees are more than just a tax so i think thats already enough .
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January 26, 2019, 01:48:27 PM
 #24

I don't want to be in jail tho,but the fact you said maybe right no one can find which coins you were holding but every citizen need to pay taxes so if you are a good man then you will do it.If we completely move to crypto to crypto transaction then it is much difficult for a government to ask for taxes so consider about it as well.

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January 26, 2019, 02:00:20 PM
 #25

If you violate the laws in your own countries, this can lead to bad consequences. I advise you to pay taxes if the state legalizes cryptocurrency

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January 26, 2019, 02:19:02 PM
 #26

If your jurisdiction or the law of your country tells you to pay taxes on your crypto currency gains, then you should. If you hide your gains (that is not report them) and try to avoid taxes, then you are actually breaking the law of the country and you deserve to get punished. How long do you think you will be able to hide yourself and escape from those taxes? You will eventually get caught.


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January 26, 2019, 02:21:27 PM
 #27

More and more countries, like Chile or India, are trying to tax their citizen for the crypto they hold.

Please don't pay taxes on your coins.
You really don't need it, unless you are totally ignorant.

It's simple: they cannot prove you have the coins on your PC/phone , so you don't have nothing to pay taxes on, as far as they know.
It's just their attempt to trick the ignorants that don't know about that Wink

Even if they look for your wallet on your PC/phone ,
your wallet data is not accessible to them because it's  encrypted with password  ( uhm.... have you set the password protection on your wallet... right? Wink ).

Of course you are not going to give them the wallet password.

Oh.. they tell you that you withdrawn the coins from an exchange,  so that's the proof you have the coins?
Just say that it was an hacker that stole your coins from the exchange,  not you.
You got robbed, and you don't have to pay taxes on the money that was stolen from you, right?

P.S. for the geeks: use Veracrypt Wink

It's good advice if you just hold crypto in the wallet.
But, what if you need some money and withdraw some of the funds (after exchange) to your bank account?
Authorities will see your unreported income and punish you if you don't report it and pay taxes.
Please don't give advice which can bring legal problems to others.
IN my country is already very strict law about crypto and taxes.



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January 26, 2019, 02:23:19 PM
 #28

What's been mentioned in the Op is true. Government try to profit out of the cryptocurrencies. Governments just want money, they doesn't want the good in it. Already there are countries like Israel that has got its taxation on bitcoin. They've added bitcoin along with the gold and other commodities. Upon the holdings one has got they're asked to pay taxes, but this isn't that effective as governments cannot trace the holdings of cryptocurrency belonging to a person.




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January 26, 2019, 02:25:00 PM
 #29

I think it's better to follow the rules, and for certain countries that have applied crypto taxes, there's nothing wrong with obeying the rules for paying taxes, and I think it's better than having to deal with the law.

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January 26, 2019, 02:26:50 PM
 #30

If you damage the laws in your nations, this can prompt terrible results. I encourage you to make good on regulatory expenses if the state legitimizes cryptographic money. In the event that you abuse the laws in your nations, this can prompt awful outcomes.
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January 26, 2019, 02:27:07 PM
 #31

Are you kidding? I don't think what you said was smart, actually, if this action really happens, government might ban cryptocurrency more strictly, it's not good for crypto's development. Otherwise, cryptocurrencies are asked to pay taxes, personally speaking, it means government's admission for it.
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January 26, 2019, 03:53:18 PM
 #32

I think  in my country within the next few years all domestic exchanges will have to submit all user transactions to the government.
All domestic exchanges need KYC, and when exchanging crypto to fiat we need to use a domestic exchange.
In other words, the government will be able to easily know the benefits of our trades and it will be impossible to avoid taxes.

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January 26, 2019, 04:07:19 PM
 #33

That would definitely become task evasion. If unfortunately you turn out to be in a country where cryptocurrency is been tasked it's best to abide by the law and do accordingly. I would never support anyone to go against the law
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January 26, 2019, 04:09:29 PM
 #34

I think making regulations must pay taxes if we have bitcoin or cryptocurrency that is something that is not clear because the tax cannot recognize people who have cryptocurrency or not. if you are asked to pay taxes, then just say you don't have it.
Just wonder how government will track each person in their country. Which one is have and which one is not. Maybe that thing will be problem again for government and we as investor only need to say like what you said, we don't have any crypto.

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January 26, 2019, 04:20:25 PM
 #35

now the tax for cryptocurrency is still a very unique debate because some countries have banned the use of cryptocurrency and there are some countries that permit the use of cryptocurrency and without the need to use taxes, and the most true tax can never be collected.

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January 26, 2019, 04:22:12 PM
 #36

Just wonder how government will track each person in their country. Which one is have and which one is not.

The government can check mate any transcation withdrawal from cryptocurrency enable wallet to any bank account through that the can track the possible user
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January 26, 2019, 04:38:58 PM
 #37

More and more countries, like Chile or India, are trying to tax their citizen for the crypto they hold.

Please don't pay taxes on your coins.
You really don't need it, unless you are totally ignorant.

It's simple: they cannot prove you have the coins on your PC/phone , so you don't have nothing to pay taxes on, as far as they know.
It's just their attempt to trick the ignorants that don't know about that Wink

Even if they look for your wallet on your PC/phone ,
your wallet data is not accessible to them because it's  encrypted with password  ( uhm.... have you set the password protection on your wallet... right? Wink ).

Of course you are not going to give them the wallet password.

Oh.. they tell you that you withdrawn the coins from an exchange,  so that's the proof you have the coins?
Just say that it was an hacker that stole your coins from the exchange,  not you.
You got robbed, and you don't have to pay taxes on the money that was stolen from you, right?

P.S. for the geeks: use Veracrypt Wink

Is it just because paying taxes with crypto assets has such an impact?
I don't think that's possible, what about those who use crypto assets to shop, isn't that the same, the only difference is the name of the platform?

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January 26, 2019, 05:09:47 PM
 #38

The only thing I’m really bothered about is when I come to cash in a certain big % of my bitcoin’s in the future I’ll have to pay taxes then because it’ll be too much to just sweep under the carpet & not be noticed.

I have a good accountant though.


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January 26, 2019, 05:15:59 PM
 #39

That would definitely become task evasion. If unfortunately you turn out to be in a country where cryptocurrency is been tasked it's best to abide by the law and do accordingly. I would never support anyone to go against the law
Just a correction, it's tax not task.

Anyway, if you're country mandates a law which states that you should pay tax according to your crypto income then don't hesitate to follow it because it helps your economy in the long run. Also, consider yourself lucky because the use of crypto in your country was regulated only and not totally banned (like in Bangladesh). And for those people who live in a country where crypto is legal or there's no concrete law rgarding this matter, just continue being a good investor and don't give your government reasons to prohibit the use if it.

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January 26, 2019, 05:27:13 PM
 #40

Your post shows the ignorance -snip-

“Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves.”
― Henry David Thoreau

I don't think he was purposely ignorant, those are just views of somebody that was given a chance to have and make them in to reality. That was the whole point of crypto wasn't it? To give us true financial independence. No one can be ostracized for utilizing that built in feature of cryptocurrency's technology.

“Quod timet servit.” (those in fear are slaves)
―Seneca the Younger

This brave fellow is just saying what you all* are only dreaming of!
Some members above already have implied and actively called for group responsibility...
You know that this is one way ticket, one way ticket to world totalitarian government, called nwo.



People don't want to pay taxes but want a free hospital, free school, free house, free food, free everything and even get money from the govt. but still, complain.
If someone pays himself the hospital (a birth cost +$30,000 in total btw) and everything then he will be entitled to say, no taxes

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January 26, 2019, 05:30:27 PM
 #41

In my view on this matter, as long as you are holding your altcoin or crypto/Bitcoin you are not going to pay any taxes. But in time that you are going to convert your profit here from Bitcoin/crypto into fiat I think in that way tax come in to the exchange who is legally registered under the government SEC, and since that we are already under that exchange we are also automatically deducted by tax in it.
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January 26, 2019, 05:30:35 PM
 #42

IN my country is already very strict law about crypto and taxes.

To my knowledge in your country (Croatia) there is crypto physical store where you can walk in and sell up to 1000 Euros worth of crypto without any ID, you get cash in hands, is that true? https://www.bitcoin-store.hr/

Based on that I do not see any strict laws in your country, exactly the opposite of what you are talking about.

The only thing I’m really bothered about is when I come to cash in a certain big % of my bitcoin’s in the future I’ll have to pay taxes then because it’ll be too much to just sweep under the carpet & not be noticed.

There is always a way if you want avoid tax - you can sell direct to people without involving banks or exchanges, but then you need pay attention to not spend to much money at once, especially if you have bad neighbors/friends who will tip you off to tax office.

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January 26, 2019, 05:34:32 PM
 #43

If you don't like the tax laws in your country you can vote with your wallet and move to a different country.  I guess if every country eventually had similar laws you couldn't do much except outright refuse to pay.  I would have no problem paying taxes if the funds weren't used for wars and other evil purposes.
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January 26, 2019, 05:45:07 PM
 #44

It's simple: they cannot prove you have the coins on your PC/phone , so you don't have nothing to pay taxes on, as far as they know.
It's just their attempt to trick the ignorants that don't know about that Wink

Even if they look for your wallet on your PC/phone ,
your wallet data is not accessible to them because it's  encrypted with password  ( uhm.... have you set the password protection on your wallet... right? Wink ).

You got the answer Cheesy
How can they prove that we have crypto in the exchange or our computer/phone? They need to have confiscated our computers, I mean all of the computers in their country and scan everything inside our computer to let them know if we have crypto or not. It will need a big effort to do that thing because they cannot imagine how many people have a computer and phone in their country and need to scan one by one to find what they want.

Besides that, we don't exchange bitcoin directly into local fiat in our bank account because we need the third party that will help us to send that money. It will difficult to search who is the citizen who uses crypto.
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January 26, 2019, 05:55:07 PM
 #45

People don't want to pay taxes but want a free hospital, free school, free house, free food, free everything and even get money from the govt. but still, complain.
If someone pays himself the hospital (a birth cost +$30,000 in total btw) and everything then he will be entitled to say, no taxes
I feel you m8. It can be infuriating when you realise how many sheeple there are.
Worst thing is that in a way, it isn't even their own fault. They just don't know any better. They don't! its madness how badly informed most of the society is these days. IMO this solely is the key for socialism success.
But wouldn't you agree that defending this system of enslavement, just because one lucks the guts is pure evil?
Taxation is actually a very good example for such conversation, mostly because it is hard, or is it?
You know what, I very often provoke those kind of conversation in real life and in 9/10 folks, after some arguments, starting to state similar views. They don't want to pay for all this crap gov. is providing, because of the low quality, miserable efficiency and high cost of such services. Our nature is in fact opposite to laziness, opposite to being taken care of. "They" don't want us to talk about it, tahat's why all the distractions. Human nature is different than we were thought in school (even women's :-p).


 
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January 26, 2019, 05:58:57 PM
 #46

I don't mind paying my taxes since I also want to use my BTC for purchases etc. Dutch taxes are extremely low on crypto so I don't see the issue at all.

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January 26, 2019, 09:03:16 PM
 #47

I  do not agree with this totally. This isn't mentioned in Bitcoin Whitepaper... Not really why Bitcoin was invented. Cryptocurrency need some kind of support from governments. If they cannot tax it, they will probably not support it. They should be able to tax it when you use it for goods and services that is within a country’s control or registered/regulated within a country

 
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January 26, 2019, 10:41:58 PM
 #48

Does this mean you're willing to pay the fines or serve the jail time of every single person you encourage to this who gets nailed?

Either you stand behind your 'advice' or you don't. In most places the money needs to finish up in your bank if you want to spend it. Once it's in there you may have some explaining to do.

In most but not all. You can buy gift cards, you can buy stuff for bitcoins like cars and real estate. There are countries with liberal tax policies and nothing will stop you from going there and spending your coins. I agree with OP that taxing bitcoins is a ridiculous law and impossible to uphold.

You can't even be sure that when you decide to spend your coins in 2 or 3 years the law will still be there in its current form.

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January 26, 2019, 10:42:13 PM
Merited by Lucius (1)
 #49

I think making regulations must pay taxes if we have bitcoin or cryptocurrency that is something that is not clear because the tax cannot recognize people who have cryptocurrency or not. if you are asked to pay taxes, then just say you don't have it.
/\
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THIS

What's been mentioned in the Op is true. Government try to profit out of the cryptocurrencies. Governments just want money, they doesn't want the good in it. Already there are countries like Israel that has got its taxation on bitcoin. They've added bitcoin along with the gold and other commodities. Upon the holdings one has got they're asked to pay taxes, but this isn't that effective as governments cannot trace the holdings of cryptocurrency belonging to a person.
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THIS


Your post shows the ignorance -snip-

“Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves.”
― Henry David Thoreau

I don't think he was purposely ignorant, those are just views of somebody that was given a chance to have and make them in to reality. That was the whole point of crypto wasn't it? To give us true financial independence. No one can be ostracized for utilizing that built in feature of cryptocurrency's technology.

“Quod timet servit.” (those in fear are slaves)
―Seneca the Younger

This brave fellow is just saying what you all* are only dreaming of!
Some members above already have implied and actively called for group responsibility...
You know that this is one way ticket, one way ticket to world totalitarian government, called nwo.


/\
||
||
And THIS



I 'll try to answer to most of your comments here.

--------------------------------------

1) Paying taxes for helping your place to develop
These types of comments deserve a big Facepalm.
When you go back home tired from work, please relax on your couch and watch this classic that pretty much everybody knows of: Zeitgeist.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTbIu8Zeqp0&t=5776s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbvCxMfcKv4

You will learn a lot of things from that, for example that the taxes and the fractional reserve are big scams.

We will be turned into slaves more and more year by year.
The real development and scientific research gets hindered and slowed down by them.
They definitely spend most of our money for less legit purposes than "development" or "your well being".

-----------------------

2) Cashing out to my bank account ( ... really? )

Some of you are incorrectly assuming that you MUST convert crypto into bank savings... why must you? There are many ways to cash-out, mostly anonymous:

- Restaurants/Shops/Services that directly accept crypto, are spreading out, even though at a slow pace

- Exchange crypto for cash by meeting with other people in your city (i.e. over-the-counter, LocalBitcoins, etc.).
Hint: check the banknotes' validity with something like this https://www.amazon.com/Dri-Mark-Counterfeit-Detection-Watermark/dp/B07F6PW69G

- [Caution with this] Get a crypto-enabled credit card like WirexApp , and cash out just a tiny amount of money at a time on it, just for small purchases at the moment you need to buy something. This is a handy way of cashing out, but it's traceable. Cash out a VERY limited amount per year in this way.

- Yeah, convert crypto into bank savings, but at a bank in a tax heaven so at least you pay very little taxes. Don't be a fool like some guy that keeps his bank reports at home, so that the dogs have the proof on a silverplate... ( some guys got caught for this naive move ).


--------------------------------------

3) Going to jail
If there's no proof, there's no jail for you.
Do you want additional safety?
- Withdraw BTC from the exchange to your BTC wallet
- Create a new BTC wallet, and move all your coins there

Why?
In this way, there is a  proof on the blockchain that you moved all your BTC to another person (which is you, but there's no evidence, it can be anyone).
So it's like you have "cleaned" your coins from your name Smiley


What is the advantage?

They want to tax you on the FIAT money that you moved on the exchange for buying the coins, AND on the additional earnings you got from an eventual
 price rise if they know you hold the coins for, say, 2 years, and the price went up by 500%.

But if you followed the 2 smart moves listed above, you proved that you gave all your coins to another person right after you bought them, so there's no earning to be taxed due to the coins' value increase.
Thus, you will only pay the taxes for the FIAT money that you spent for buying BTC
--------------------------------------

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January 26, 2019, 10:53:45 PM
 #50

I agree with you. After all, this is the money that we earned ourselves without the help of the state. Then why should we pay tax on them? But on the other hand, you have to be very careful, because tax evasion is punishable by law and you may have problems.
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January 26, 2019, 11:18:14 PM
 #51

I'm not going to pay taxes on crypto either. If you do everything carefully, there will be no problems. But if your country has strict laws on the use of crypto, it is better not to risk and pay tax, so that you do not have problems then.

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January 26, 2019, 11:45:45 PM
 #52

I still don't know how the crypto tax works since it's not in my place in my country, but to me it looks like taxing people for the money they have already which makes no sense to me.

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January 26, 2019, 11:55:55 PM
 #53

I agree with you. After all, this is the money that we earned ourselves without the help of the state. Then why should we pay tax on them? But on the other hand, you have to be very careful, because tax evasion is punishable by law and you may have problems.

Posts like this seem to pop up here with great regularity.

Do most people not earn their own money themselves? Do they have to pay tax anyway? You bet.

Just because it's 'virtual' and 'on the internet' does not mean you can magically ignore the law. We keep seeing this playing out, ICOs being the latest one.

Continue feeling special all you want. The Man won't give a fuck if he catches up with you.

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January 27, 2019, 12:50:50 AM
Merited by Foxpup (3)
 #54


Please don't pay taxes on your coins.
You really don't need it, unless you are totally ignorant.

It's simple: they cannot prove you have the coins on your PC/phone , so you don't have nothing to pay taxes on, as far as they know.
It's just their attempt to trick the ignorants that don't know about that Wink



Wow? I guess I will only speak on behalf of my ignorant self as a person who has paid taxes on my bitcoin gains...
You make the assumption that we wouldn't know "how" to evade taxes? Tax evasion is not that complicated, not ever getting caught..?

In America we know better:

Al Capone Sentenced To Prison For Tax Evasion On This Day In 1931
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2018/10/17/al-capone-sentenced-to-prison-for-tax-evasion-on-this-day-in-1931/#6904283c7c4c

The IRS doesn't mess around when it comes to getting "their money"
Go up against an entity with unlimited resources at your own peril.

Wonder how many years it will be for the --- "they froze my bank account" --posts?

There 'used' to be more truth in forums than anywhere else.  Twitter:  @cryptobitchicks  Spock: "I am expressing multiple attitudes simultaneously. To which are you referring?"
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January 27, 2019, 01:07:13 AM
 #55

I think there are so many flaw in your way to escape from the tax, its not that easy to escape from tax, the government got access from all over the place, and there are not a lot of stores that accept crypto yet, so we need to exchange the coin into fiat, if the government decided to tax the crypto just pay for it, don't because of some people try to cheat the tax payment the government ban all the crypto
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January 27, 2019, 01:38:20 AM
 #56

I don't mind paying my taxes since I also want to use my BTC for purchases etc. Dutch taxes are extremely low on crypto so I don't see the issue at all.
You right, as long as the use of crypocurrency is released, in the sense that you can use it to shop anywhere freely, it is not a problem to pay taxes. there is no freelunch dude, there is always payback. if you want legalization, the tax must be applied

 
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January 27, 2019, 02:20:05 AM
 #57

Nice try mate. That's now how this works. I bet that you really know do what you said in those. Most of the time, you will use those cryptocurrency to either pay bills or pay something, that way they could track you and you'll have some explaining to do.

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January 27, 2019, 02:33:17 AM
 #58

Wonder how many years it will be for the --- "they froze my bank account" --posts?

It's the same old story...

Let's get back to the basics.

This whole Bitcoin thing has been invented for the exact purpose of giving the people an alternative to the banks: remember that a bank account is not the best thing for you , in that it's your money in the hand of another guy, not yours.

This guy may decide not to give back your own money to you (or say he can "freeze your account" if you want), for whatever reason , no matter if it is fair or not.
When you will close that account ... you'll kind of feel like a bird like many guys that have no properties to be distrained. I know a couple of them Smiley

The aim of this revolution is to protect the people from a possible distopic future made of slavery, and from the fear of losing their money which is not in their physical control.
But i don't know, maybe it is too early to think about these problems, in that we "just" live a financial crisis now, not a serious recession or distopic reality... yet.

AFAIU your comment has one assumption: you still cannot live without a bank account with all your money in it.

There are still too many with your mentality, maybe the govs are not repressive enough yet, so the people is still not enslaved enough to need a decentralized money system.
I guess the real crypto boom will happen when the people start to desperately try to escape from the jaws of a future tyrant, and want to close their bank accounts to move their savings in a safer place.

It is a matter of years or decades at most.

Who knows what Satoshi had in mind when he wanted to craft this technology?
Maybe he has been watching too many movies like Zeitgeist and got scared?
I guess he predicted a distopic future and wanted to "prepare".
Time will tell if he was right
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January 27, 2019, 03:18:34 AM
 #59

What nonsense? None of the countries ask for tax on Crypto holding. They're asking for tax only when you are converting Crytp to FIAT. There's no way you can hide that unless you are solely living on cash.

In my country(Japan), when I bought a item with Bitcoin which I bought for a cheap price than the item, that margin is also taxed.
However, I think that it is impossible for the government to grasp all these transactions, and it is also impossible for us to calculate each one.

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January 27, 2019, 03:28:23 AM
 #60

What nonsense? None of the countries ask for tax on Crypto holding. They're asking for tax only when you are converting Crytp to FIAT. There's no way you can hide that unless you are solely living on cash.

In my country(Japan), when I bought a item with Bitcoin which I bought for a cheap price than the item, that margin is also taxed.
However, I think that it is impossible for the government to grasp all these transactions, and it is also impossible for us to calculate each one.

Yes buying item do have a taxed no matter what payment method you are using  . the seller can add extra fees whenever they like and they will say that it has a tax and vat included but actually it does not  .  not only for buying or paying but even on exchanging crypto to fiats we also pay excessive fee including the tx fees  . it sucks too much but we cant do anything about this matter .

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January 27, 2019, 03:51:57 AM
 #61

What nonsense? None of the countries ask for tax on Crypto holding. They're asking for tax only when you are converting Crytp to FIAT. There's no way you can hide that unless you are solely living on cash.

In my country(Japan), when I bought a item with Bitcoin which I bought for a cheap price than the item, that margin is also taxed.
However, I think that it is impossible for the government to grasp all these transactions, and it is also impossible for us to calculate each one.

i don't live in Japan to know for sure but actually everything that i have  read from mid 2017 until today is saying otherwise. meaning whenever you buy anything with bitcoin in Japan then there is no taxes since the government removed it in 2017 and only taxes you when you purchase or sell bitcoin not when you use it as a currency. and that has even created that discounts that the merchants offer when you pay with bitcoin.

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January 27, 2019, 03:59:34 AM
 #62

I rather not get caught up in some sort of legal trouble that cost me out the ass for lawyers, I'll just gladly pay my share in taxes on it and not worry about it. Good luck fighting the government over money, I am sure this can only end well for you.

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January 27, 2019, 04:08:45 AM
 #63

Your words on how not to pay the Bitcoin tax is very impossible to apply in our country. Simply because every time we will convert our Bitcoin to fiat in our local exchanges it's already deducted for Bitcoin tax for the government therefore it is impossible to avoid not to pay the tax for us but even it is possible to avoid it but still i will not do it as i firmly believed that Bitcoin is a help to the nations economy therefore it is our obligation to pay the Bitcoin tax.

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January 27, 2019, 04:36:34 AM
 #64

Your words on how not to pay the Bitcoin tax is very impossible to apply in our country. Simply because every time we will convert our Bitcoin to fiat in our local exchanges it's already deducted for Bitcoin tax for the government therefore it is impossible to avoid not to pay the tax for us but even it is possible to avoid it but still i will not do it as i firmly believed that Bitcoin is a help to the nations economy therefore it is our obligation to pay the Bitcoin tax.

If you read the answers it has already been said that you don't need to convert crypto into fiat on an exchange.
There are many other ways to cash-out, even anonymous ones of course.
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January 27, 2019, 04:49:39 AM
 #65

Taxes are basically income that are used by a country's government to run some of the country's affairs. It is wrong to discourage people for paying taxes, everybody has his/her own rights to decide to either pay taxes or not. You are not the person to tell them to either pay or not. If you have decided not to pay taxes, please do that alone. Don't share anything to tell people what to do and what not to do.

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January 27, 2019, 04:56:12 AM
 #66

Your words on how not to pay the Bitcoin tax is very impossible to apply in our country. Simply because every time we will convert our Bitcoin to fiat in our local exchanges it's already deducted for Bitcoin tax for the government therefore it is impossible to avoid not to pay the tax for us but even it is possible to avoid it but still i will not do it as i firmly believed that Bitcoin is a help to the nations economy therefore it is our obligation to pay the Bitcoin tax.

If you read the answers it has already been said that you don't need to convert crypto into fiat on an exchange.
There are many other ways to cash-out, even anonymous ones of course.
And you're still legally supposed to pay taxes on it.

You should remember the little saying, you only have to do two things in life, pay taxes and die.

Don't think you're going to avoid it.

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January 27, 2019, 04:57:26 AM
 #67

I do not think that tax evasion will be in defense of cryptocurrency. Quite the contrary: government agencies can determine the total amount of transactions in a cryptocurrency and the approximate amount of taxes that must be paid. If we do not pay taxes on the use of cryptocurrencies, states can begin to restrict or even prohibit cryptocurrency. In my opinion, we do not need it. It is not necessary to give a reason for the opponents of cryptocurrency to launch an attack on it.

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January 27, 2019, 07:15:52 AM
 #68

I do not think that tax evasion will be in defense of cryptocurrency. Quite the contrary: government agencies can determine the total amount of transactions in a cryptocurrency and the approximate amount of taxes that must be paid. If we do not pay taxes on the use of cryptocurrencies, states can begin to restrict or even prohibit cryptocurrency. In my opinion, we do not need it. It is not necessary to give a reason for the opponents of cryptocurrency to launch an attack on it.

if the government starts to determine the rules as you mentioned by giving a total transaction limit to making tax payments that must be paid then it will only make bitcoin fail in the purpose of the presence of bitcoin, you should be able to see the proposal or whitepaper when satoshi nakamoto makes bitcoin the first time, it was implied that bitcoin had a purpose to make a currency that nobody could control because bitcoin can only be controlled which only has bitcoin.

 
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January 27, 2019, 07:26:06 AM
 #69

No one opposes the one-state policy regarding taxes, be it cryptocurrency or the other all according to the state's rules if they live in that country, violating the rules of imprisonment. so to make things easier for every country about taxes, do it according to where you live.
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January 27, 2019, 11:19:25 AM
 #70

very good advice and in accordance with my principles,
I will never pay a bit of my bitcoin tax to the government, because in this case the government doesn't contribute anything. so why pay for services that do not exist for us.
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January 27, 2019, 11:30:22 AM
 #71

More and more countries, like Chile or India, are trying to tax their citizen for the crypto they hold.

Please don't pay taxes on your coins.
You really don't need it, unless you are totally ignorant.

It's simple: they cannot prove you have the coins on your PC/phone , so you don't have nothing to pay taxes on, as far as they know.
It's just their attempt to trick the ignorants that don't know about that Wink

Even if they look for your wallet on your PC/phone ,
your wallet data is not accessible to them because it's  encrypted with password  ( uhm.... have you set the password protection on your wallet... right? Wink ).

Of course you are not going to give them the wallet password.

Oh.. they tell you that you withdrawn the coins from an exchange,  so that's the proof you have the coins?
Just say that it was an hacker that stole your coins from the exchange,  not you.
You got robbed, and you don't have to pay taxes on the money that was stolen from you, right?

P.S. for the geeks: use Veracrypt Wink

I think you have misunderstood something, I am from India and indian govt is not charging any tax on any crypto one is holding. I have paid tax from my crypto income this year but that is not on my holding but the amount received into my bank account. One need not to pay any tax for any coin he is holding in India or anywhere as crypto wallets does not reveal the identity of holders.

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January 27, 2019, 11:31:09 AM
 #72

very good advice and in accordance with my principles,
I will never pay a bit of my bitcoin tax to the government, because in this case the government doesn't contribute anything. so why pay for services that do not exist for us.
The money you making also not from your government then why you are paying for fiat earnings? The government is a setup by the group of people and created by people if it is a democratic nation so you need to ccontribute yourself for the growth of your country's economy so its your duty to pay the taxes to your government if not then you are a crimial in legal view.

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January 27, 2019, 11:40:58 AM
 #73

More and more countries, like Chile or India, are trying to tax their citizen for the crypto they hold.

Please don't pay taxes on your coins.
You really don't need it, unless you are totally ignorant.

It's simple: they cannot prove you have the coins on your PC/phone , so you don't have nothing to pay taxes on, as far as they know.
It's just their attempt to trick the ignorants that don't know about that Wink

Even if they look for your wallet on your PC/phone ,
your wallet data is not accessible to them because it's  encrypted with password  ( uhm.... have you set the password protection on your wallet... right? Wink ).

Of course you are not going to give them the wallet password.

Oh.. they tell you that you withdrawn the coins from an exchange,  so that's the proof you have the coins?
Just say that it was an hacker that stole your coins from the exchange,  not you.
You got robbed, and you don't have to pay taxes on the money that was stolen from you, right?

P.S. for the geeks: use Veracrypt Wink
In the country where I live, everything is much more cunning, the government imposes a tax on unemployment. Those who do not officially work, will pay every month tax. In the future, the government may impose a tax on the withdrawal of funds from the exchange, that is, when we withdraw to a Bank card, we will automatically deduct a certain percentage, that's how not to pay?)))
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January 27, 2019, 12:53:05 PM
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 #74

I would rather pay tax on my crypto currencies than having the governments banning crypto. Let’s not give the governments another reason to disallow us using crypto. Anyway, it is good to contribute to nation building, isn’t it?

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January 27, 2019, 01:06:03 PM
 #75

I think same as you my friend.Way how we can avoid country fees are:
1.Be safe when you transfer your money because your country will be able to know where you are using your crypto when they know your bitcoin address and if they know website address.
2.Do not use exchangers where it is necessary to confirm identity with id card.
3.Do not buy bitcoin with your fiat money where they are asking you for id card,own identiy number,...
4.Do not talk to much to other people that you are not paying crypto fee even if they are your clostest part of family.
5.When you cashout big money,dont buy own house,car, go rent a car,rent a house ,rent everything,or buy it and then fast sell it to closest part of your family and then use it like it is yours.

Big tax which we have now are robbery we are traveling back to the past but now there are couple of kings,queens,queens and kings support=corrupted goverment voters,police and army,priests,people with small income and people which have small chances to survive.

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January 27, 2019, 01:29:36 PM
 #76

Yes. Do you want to take responsibilities for people's decision to not pay taxes from crypto? I think you don't.
I live in country where there is not any tax for crypto yet and I do not even imagine how it is going to work. But I suppose they are going to track where money on your bank's bill comes from. So you will not pay taxes for amount of coins you actually have, but from cashi g it out and moving it to your account.
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January 27, 2019, 01:45:48 PM
 #77

I think if the subject is a citizen of that country and tax is implemented on cryptocurrency, it would certainly be through the exchanges. There would be high payments involved during the transaction of converting fiat to cryptocurrency or the other way. It is almost unavoidable not unless if such person would have to travel into a contry that does not tax through exchanges. But why would you want to evade taxes anyway? Is your taxes so high?

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January 27, 2019, 02:39:32 PM
 #78

If you want to be stupid - then sure, don't claim your crypto's...

But, for the rest of us - It would probably be a good idea to pay taxes Wink

And, I'm not sure if the OP understands... Your not paying tax on coins your holding, It's only on the coins you sell and the profits made - Which all boils down to your personal trading and such.

But, yeah. If your doing transfers to your bank account. That is the 1st piece of information the Gov. wants when Auditing you. So good luck trying to conceil that, enjoy those fines!



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January 27, 2019, 02:48:36 PM
 #79

More and more countries, like Chile or India, are trying to tax their citizen for the crypto they hold.

Please don't pay taxes on your coins.
You really don't need it, unless you are totally ignorant.

It's simple: they cannot prove you have the coins on your PC/phone , so you don't have nothing to pay taxes on, as far as they know.
It's just their attempt to trick the ignorants that don't know about that Wink

Even if they look for your wallet on your PC/phone ,
your wallet data is not accessible to them because it's  encrypted with password  ( uhm.... have you set the password protection on your wallet... right? Wink ).

Tax is charged on an exchange transaction when you want to exchange your coins for real money. This is done automatically when you make a currency transaction.  Smiley

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January 27, 2019, 04:55:52 PM
 #80

I think same as you my friend.Way how we can avoid country fees are:
1.Be safe when you transfer your money because your country will be able to know where you are using your crypto when they know your bitcoin address and if they know website address.
2.Do not use exchangers where it is necessary to confirm identity with id card.
3.Do not buy bitcoin with your fiat money where they are asking you for id card,own identiy number,...
4.Do not talk to much to other people that you are not paying crypto fee even if they are your clostest part of family.
5.When you cashout big money,dont buy own house,car, go rent a car,rent a house ,rent everything,or buy it and then fast sell it to closest part of your family and then use it like it is yours.

Big tax which we have now are robbery we are traveling back to the past but now there are couple of kings,queens,queens and kings support=corrupted goverment voters,police and army,priests,people with small income and people which have small chances to survive.
^
THIS

I would rather pay tax on my crypto currencies than having the governments banning crypto. Let’s not give the governments another reason to disallow us using crypto. Anyway, it is good to contribute to nation building, isn’t it?
Tax is charged on an exchange transaction when you want to exchange your coins for real money. This is done automatically when you make a currency transaction.  Smiley

@Lyana  
For now the "automatic" taxation is only done in a few countries.
@Lyana  @shirackjs and everybody else thinking that you MUST convert crypto into bank savings sonner or later...
that has already been answered in this reply https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5102409.msg49439298#msg49439298
( why don't you read the discussions? Smiley )

Quote
I 'll try to answer to most of your comments here.

--------------------------------------

1) Paying taxes for helping your place to develop
These types of comments deserve a big Facepalm.
When you go back home tired from work, please relax on your couch and watch this classic that pretty much everybody knows of: Zeitgeist.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTbIu8Zeqp0&t=5776s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbvCxMfcKv4

You will learn a lot of things from that, for example that the taxes and the fractional reserve are big scams.

We will be turned into slaves more and more year by year.
The real development and scientific research gets hindered and slowed down by them.
They definitely spend most of our tax money for less legit purposes than "development" or "your well being".

-----------------------

2) Cashing out to my bank account ( ... really? )

Some of you are incorrectly assuming that you MUST convert crypto into bank savings... why must you? There are many ways to cash-out, mostly anonymous:

- Restaurants/Shops/Services that directly accept crypto, are spreading out, even though at a slow pace

- Exchange crypto for cash by meeting with other people in your city (i.e. over-the-counter, LocalBitcoins, etc.).
Hint: check the banknotes' validity with something like this https://www.amazon.com/Dri-Mark-Counterfeit-Detection-Watermark/dp/B07F6PW69G

- [Caution with this] Get a crypto-enabled credit card like WirexApp , and cash out just a tiny amount of money at a time on it, just for small purchases at the moment you need to buy something. This is a handy way of cashing out, but it's traceable. Cash out a VERY limited amount per year in this way.

- Yeah, convert crypto into bank savings, but at a bank in a tax heaven so at least you pay very little taxes. Don't be a fool like some guy that keeps his bank reports at home, so that the dogs have the proof on a silverplate... ( some guys got caught for this naive move ).


--------------------------------------

3) Going to jail
If there's no proof, there's no jail for you.
Do you want additional safety?
- Withdraw BTC from the exchange to your BTC wallet
- Create a new BTC wallet, and move all your coins there

Why?
In this way, there is a  proof on the blockchain that you moved all your BTC to another person (which is you, but there's no evidence, it can be anyone).
So it's like you have "cleaned" your coins from your name Smiley


What is the advantage?

They want to tax you on the FIAT money that you moved on the exchange for buying the coins, AND on the additional earnings you got from an eventual
 price rise if they know you hold the coins for, say, 2 years, and the price went up by 500%.

But if you followed the 2 smart moves listed above, you proved that you gave all your coins to another person right after you bought them, so there's no earning to be taxed due to the coins' value increase.
Thus, you will only pay the taxes for the FIAT money that you spent for buying BTC
--------------------------------------

@shirackjs I forgot... who cares if the govs "ban" crypto? If it is decentralized, it will continue to work as before, and the price will continue to grow without the need for the gov.
BTC doesn't need gov's decision to raise in value.
It already is revolutionary enough that the price will go up naturally, without the need for help by dishonest tricksters called the gov.
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January 27, 2019, 05:02:54 PM
 #81

This is not a wise choice because you try not to pay taxes, the government will try to enact prohibitions against it. Pay rent even if it's a small amount, but this makes it easy to survive and find money.

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January 27, 2019, 05:42:08 PM
 #82

More and more countries, like Chile or India, are trying to tax their citizen for the crypto they hold.

Please don't pay taxes on your coins.
You really don't need it, unless you are totally ignorant.

It's simple: they cannot prove you have the coins on your PC/phone , so you don't have nothing to pay taxes on, as far as they know.
It's just their attempt to trick the ignorants that don't know about that Wink

Even if they look for your wallet on your PC/phone ,
your wallet data is not accessible to them because it's  encrypted with password  ( uhm.... have you set the password protection on your wallet... right? Wink ).

Of course you are not going to give them the wallet password.

Oh.. they tell you that you withdrawn the coins from an exchange,  so that's the proof you have the coins?
Just say that it was an hacker that stole your coins from the exchange,  not you.
You got robbed, and you don't have to pay taxes on the money that was stolen from you, right?

P.S. for the geeks: use Veracrypt Wink

Hey this is a very dumb advice and anyone following this will land in trouble for sure, and the op won’t come to bail you out. As you have mentioned the two Asian countries let me inform you, 90% of the transactions happen via exchanges, which send money in the bank of the person. If your advice is to be followed how will they explain when that money came from?. I prefer a good life, my reputation intact and no jail time so not following your advice if needed I’ll pay tax and live happily.

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January 27, 2019, 05:52:36 PM
 #83

Hey this is a very dumb advice and anyone following this will land in trouble for sure, and the op won’t come to bail you out. As you have mentioned the two Asian countries let me inform you, 90% of the transactions happen via exchanges, which send money in the bank of the person. If your advice is to be followed how will they explain when that money came from?. I prefer a good life, my reputation intact and no jail time so not following your advice if needed I’ll pay tax and live happily.
Yeah, I am your side, paying tax is a good practice of helping your country, imagine, by giving you a small amount you can contribute progress that possibly happens. Look at the country of U.S.A they were very strict on implementing tax and they are now a fully developed country. So, that is a small amount for us to pay tax and we could live happily and no worries.

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January 27, 2019, 06:20:58 PM
 #84

Hey this is a very dumb advice and anyone following this will land in trouble for sure, and the op won’t come to bail you out. As you have mentioned the two Asian countries let me inform you, 90% of the transactions happen via exchanges, which send money in the bank of the person. If your advice is to be followed how will they explain when that money came from?. I prefer a good life, my reputation intact and no jail time so not following your advice if needed I’ll pay tax and live happily.
Yeah, I am your side, paying tax is a good practice of helping your country, imagine, by giving you a small amount you can contribute progress that possibly happens. Look at the country of U.S.A they were very strict on implementing tax and they are now a fully developed country. So, that is a small amount for us to pay tax and we could live happily and no worries.


Helping my country  Grin Grin My country almost destroyed my life.I had big problem because of my country but I am 100% innocent.That is reason why I avoid those fee because my country stoled so many money from me,taked so much my time,taked so much my willness but I dont give up I dont even care for my country because people in my country dont care for me because they vote for corrupted goverment and some people in my country dont vote againt goverment.If you are from country with normal people I understand if you pay country fees but in Eastern Europe people dont know to make normal country stystem they will better stole money or be slaves.

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January 27, 2019, 06:45:39 PM
 #85

Actually they don't have the right to collect crypto taxes like that, because they have no rights in crypto settings. As we all know that crypto is a decentralized currency which means it has no center, everyone is free to trade it and they have full rights

Governments have the right to collect taxes for every transaction done with companies located inside their territory my friend.

In fact, trying to deny that due to greed is only trying to deny the possibility of mass Bitcoin adoption in the future and because of that limit it's potential exponentially.

It's pretty simple, the more places that accept Bitcoin as payment along the years the more real it will look for the people.
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January 27, 2019, 07:23:24 PM
 #86

I think that ignorancy and lack of information are the main problems here, as always, and not cryptocurrency taxation.
As far as I'm aware tax is paid on transactions, which is quite all right if you ask me and not on holding Bitcoin or other cryptocurrencies itself. Besides to pay tax on coins in your wallet authorities would first need to have insight in your wallet and that is not the case. So don't spread fake news.

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January 27, 2019, 07:47:32 PM
 #87

Everyone wants to make money and the state is no exception in this matter.As far as I know, at the moment it is actually impossible to tax cryptocurrency holders.And the whole thing is that many countries can not give a clear explanation and definition of cryptocurrency.

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January 27, 2019, 11:36:55 PM
 #88

Goverments will force people to pay tax for belongings and it seems that governments are determined to add this list crypto currencies. You may prefer not to pay and take the risk of punisment at a later time but I wouldn't suggest to do that for everyone. Every individual should review his/her own situation and calculate the risks that may occur. What they will do next is their decision.
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January 28, 2019, 12:44:47 AM
 #89

very good advice and in accordance with my principles,
I will never pay a bit of my bitcoin tax to the government, because in this case the government doesn't contribute anything. so why pay for services that do not exist for us.
You're not paying them for contribution on the crypto just like you're not paying them taxes for contribution on fiat. You're paying a set amount for things you in your community/state/nation have voted for. Schools, military, roads, officials and regulations, etc.

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January 28, 2019, 12:44:57 AM
 #90

This is not good advice.

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January 28, 2019, 05:46:34 AM
Last edit: January 28, 2019, 12:15:21 PM by tactac
 #91

i don't live in Japan to know for sure but actually everything that i have  read from mid 2017 until today is saying otherwise. meaning whenever you buy anything with bitcoin in Japan then there is no taxes since the government removed it in 2017 and only taxes you when you purchase or sell bitcoin not when you use it as a currency. and that has even created that discounts that the merchants offer when you pay with bitcoin.

You know Japanese tax system very well! And I apologize for my lack of explanation.
Tax abolished against Crypto in 2017 in Japan is consumption tax.Income tax is still taxed.

In Japan, we have to pay income tax in the following cases.
① in case of profit by trading
② in case of profit due to purchase goods by crypto currency
    for example, if you purchase a $ 50 item with 1 BTC purchased by $ 40, it will be taxed for $ 10 margin.
③ in case of profit due to swap cryptocurrency to anothercrypto currency
④ mining
tax rate is 15%~55%!

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January 28, 2019, 07:39:44 AM
 #92

This thinking is one of the reason why many governments are still against cryptocurrencies. Better keep this advice to yourself, someone in another country might get jail time and penalties for following this

 
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January 28, 2019, 12:06:03 PM
 #93

In some countries there are legal ways around paying taxes on your crypto, I'm not even speaking about some legal grey area.
Here in Belgium for example, you don't have to pay taxes if you hold your crypto for more than 1 year.

It's the same for profits made on certain kinds of long-term investments, like investing in the stock market for more than 1 year.

I honestly don't mind paying taxes on cryptocurrency profits, as long as they're fair.

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January 28, 2019, 01:33:07 PM
 #94

This thinking is one of the reason why many governments are still against cryptocurrencies. Better keep this advice to yourself, someone in another country might get jail time and penalties for following this

There may come a time when we'll have no choice. You see the trend of exchanges requiring kyc now? It'll be less anonymous and there will be a way for the government to pinpoint you if needed be. Though it'll also be another layer of security. If taxes are going to be used in a progressive way anyways i don't mind paying.

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January 28, 2019, 01:41:50 PM
 #95

This thinking is one of the reason why many governments are still against cryptocurrencies. Better keep this advice to yourself, someone in another country might get jail time and penalties for following this

There may come a time when we'll have no choice. You see the trend of exchanges requiring kyc now? It'll be less anonymous and there will be a way for the government to pinpoint you if needed be. Though it'll also be another layer of security. If taxes are going to be used in a progressive way anyways i don't mind paying.
Yeah and I am pretty sure OP could be also liable for trying to push out this advice.

Over taxation is shit, I agree but some things need to be paid for.

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January 30, 2019, 06:43:13 AM
 #96

This thinking is one of the reason why many governments are still against cryptocurrencies. Better keep this advice to yourself, someone in another country might get jail time and penalties for following this
I observe that many countries have not been uniform in implementing cryptocurrency, where each country will look for loopholes to get income such as taxes so that it can be used for development in the country.
When in a country that applies crypto rules strictly, users must obey because that is a rule. If you don't want to follow the rules, it's better not to use crypto.

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January 30, 2019, 08:07:24 AM
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 #97

So what I hear you saying is: "Please everyone, pleeeease lie, and on top of morally compromising yourself, also take on the risk of whatever punishment the government may decide to inflict on you for not paying your taxes, if they find out."

No thank you.
Have a good day,
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January 30, 2019, 12:36:27 PM
 #98

But we all know that collection of taxes from Cryptocurrency holders is a task that is almost impossible, except of course it's to be collected Ted by exchanges.
The reason is that there are no known Cryptocurrency regulatory body and Cryptocurrency is decentralized .
So how will the tax collection be implemented and subsequently executed?
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January 30, 2019, 12:57:02 PM
 #99

Hello,

Advicers are not the payer...

Each citizens have to respect their contries laws even if they are silly, unfair, too hard....

Even if theorically they could not access them on wallets, they could legiferate in order to have an obligation to declare and  you have also many people that have coins on exchanges.

As soon as something don't respect it, he could have trouble with justice and I don't think that you will take care of their defense.

Furthermore for the moment it is quite difficult to don't pass by FIAT/bank to spend the benefits in common life.

So give your opinion, give some informations or advice with not but strongly ask to don't respect the laws is really not the good advice.
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January 30, 2019, 01:10:11 PM
 #100

So what I hear you saying is: "Please everyone, pleeeease lie, and on top of morally compromising yourself, also take on the risk of whatever punishment the government may decide to inflict on you for not paying your taxes, if they find out."

No thank you.
Have a good day,
The Cyberius team.
Yeah it's a dumb call for theft and immorality.

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January 31, 2019, 07:11:57 PM
 #101

So what I hear you saying is: "Please everyone, pleeeease lie, and on top of morally compromising yourself, also take on the risk of whatever punishment the government may decide to inflict on you for not paying your taxes, if they find out."

No thank you.
Have a good day,
The Cyberius team.
Yeah it's a dumb call for theft and immorality.

The government likes to call people who aren't paying taxes thieves because it considers your hard earned money its money.
The taxpayers like to call the government a thief because it takes away money that it did not help earn.

Who in this case is immoral? Is preventing a thief from stealing your money immoral, or maybe by stealing from a thief you also become one?

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January 31, 2019, 10:13:33 PM
 #102

If you don't like the tax laws in your country you can vote with your wallet and move to a different country.  I guess if every country eventually had similar laws you couldn't do much except outright refuse to pay.  I would have no problem paying taxes if the funds weren't used for wars and other evil purposes.

That is the best answer. Gerard De Pardieu the french actor chose to become a Russian citizen just for that reason for example.

If you keep crypto in crypto then no tax applies.

If you transfer from crypto to fiat then capital gains tax rules applies unless you prove it is a Hobby: ask an accountant.

Yes the brave create liberty but also liberty means anarchy and hypocrites want to not pay their $2 tax and want billionaires to become poor overnight by paying all their money in taxes to fund their hobo life style. Paying tax is good it makes the society better.
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January 31, 2019, 10:36:08 PM
 #103

I agree with many people who wrote above that it is not worth the risk. If it is necessary to pay taxes for it, you are obliged to do it to avoid problems. But I understand you. I would also not want to pay taxes for crypto, because I earned it myself, without the help of the state and I want to get the whole amount, without tax. But even if you do not want to, it is better to pay tax and sleep peacefully.

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February 01, 2019, 02:53:23 AM
 #104

I agree with many people who wrote above that it is not worth the risk. If it is necessary to pay taxes for it, you are obliged to do it to avoid problems. But I understand you. I would also not want to pay taxes for crypto, because I earned it myself, without the help of the state and I want to get the whole amount, without tax. But even if you do not want to, it is better to pay tax and sleep peacefully.

Exactly, why would we pay taxes for crypto in the very first place? government don't even accept crypto here in my country and taxes are already on top of the merchandise we bought, so for me it's no need.

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February 01, 2019, 03:56:26 AM
 #105

I agree with many people who wrote above that it is not worth the risk. If it is necessary to pay taxes for it, you are obliged to do it to avoid problems. But I understand you. I would also not want to pay taxes for crypto, because I earned it myself, without the help of the state and I want to get the whole amount, without tax. But even if you do not want to, it is better to pay tax and sleep peacefully.

Exactly, why would we pay taxes for crypto in the very first place? government don't even accept crypto here in my country and taxes are already on top of the merchandise we bought, so for me it's no need.

Taxation is for the fiat currencies , therefore there is no point for the tax on crypto. No one controls the crypto and no one is responsible for it in case it is hacked etc. When government pay the taxes, they are responsible for the people loss,  how can government control the crypto loss ?
This is the main reason why government is not willing to use bitcoin as a currency.

 
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February 01, 2019, 04:56:46 AM
 #106

For all the fiat exchanges I've encountered, there is a requirement to KYC before you can use them. This is to prevent money laundering and terrorist funding. It allows allows governments to do further data matching towards your tax liabilities in the future. They can backdate it for many years, so even if you've escaped their notice now, it doesn't mean they won't come after you in the future. Unless you're keeping it all and spending it all in Bitcoin or whatever cryptocurrency you've purchased (as it was originally intended for). I personally met one of the barristers representing the tax office for a case like this yesterday.
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February 01, 2019, 06:34:02 AM
 #107

Users of encrypted currencies face a problem: previously, when banks and other institutions crossed the border, absolute sovereignty without state intervention prevented them from being protected by the government. But there is a price to be paid for acceptance, which is to hand over a certain degree of privacy and control to the government.

Previously, the government excluded encrypted currency from the definition of currency. The Chilean Internal Revenue Service even abolished the value-added tax on encrypted currency on the grounds that the encrypted currency was "intangible property". But now, this idea has changed, and investors are going to pay taxes.

One of the main concerns of the government is the use of encrypted money for money laundering and crime. But legal currencies are not exempt from this possibility. Why laugh at a hundred steps with fifty steps? At present, the Spanish government has identified 15,000 encrypted currency holders, which are monitored and taxed at the same time.

 
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February 01, 2019, 06:57:35 AM
Merited by vapourminer (1)
 #108

So what I hear you saying is: "Please everyone, pleeeease lie, and on top of morally compromising yourself, also take on the risk of whatever punishment the government may decide to inflict on you for not paying your taxes, if they find out."

No thank you.
Have a good day,
The Cyberius team.
Yeah it's a dumb call for theft and immorality.

The government likes to call people who aren't paying taxes thieves because it considers your hard earned money its money.
The taxpayers like to call the government a thief because it takes away money that it did not help earn.

Who in this case is immoral? Is preventing a thief from stealing your money immoral, or maybe by stealing from a thief you also become one?

There is something to be said about governments taking what they did not earn. The Boston Tea party was, if I remember correctly, based on a fraction of the taxes we pay today, from the British Parlament across the pond ("No taxation without representation" is what they said I believe). However, that said, there is also something to be said about obeying the laws of the land in which you reside (so long as they're not requiring you to do something immoral).

Also, when Jesus was presented with the question of whether they should pay taxes, He asked for a coin, and asked who's image and inscription was on it, they said Ceasor's, and He responded by saying to give to Ceasor that which is Caesar's, and to God that which is God's. It is certainly an interesting situation if you were, say, to be paid in Crypto, and only spend it as crypto or some other non-government issued currency, but as soon as you take it out you're probably converting it into some sort of fiat, which the government prints, and they want what they deem to be their share. I don't particularly like it, especially when it is misused, but technically they own that fiat, they are the ruling government, and they, for the most part, make the rules. Now, if done well, and with the current structure of government we have, taxes can help with things like roads, etc - but then that gets into a separate discussion of the job of the government, and how much freedom and personal responsibility the individual States and the people themselves have. 

Fun discussion taxes can be Cheesy
Have a good day, 
The Cyberius team.
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February 01, 2019, 07:19:30 AM
 #109

I would rather pay tax on my crypto currencies than having the governments banning crypto. Let’s not give the governments another reason to disallow us using crypto. Anyway, it is good to contribute to nation building, isn’t it?
And how can they forbid you? For example, you live in the Netherlands, you are engaged in crypto and if it is forbidden what prevents you to go to Germany to withdraw your money, or if you have friends or relatives can transfer money to Fiat and send it to you through the Bank. It is impossible to prohibit the use of crypto, they can simply create some difficulty for you to withdraw to Fiat money.
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February 01, 2019, 09:07:05 AM
 #110

however, I will still pay taxes on that when it applies to my country. well, right, that is to avoid the problem that will occur. if I make enough profit in this case, I might still pay for it. it all depends only on the income we have.
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February 01, 2019, 09:16:28 AM
 #111

More and more countries, like Chile or India, are trying to tax their citizen for the crypto they hold.

Please don't pay taxes on your coins.
You really don't need it, unless you are totally ignorant.

It's simple: they cannot prove you have the coins on your PC/phone , so you don't have nothing to pay taxes on, as far as they know.
It's just their attempt to trick the ignorants that don't know about that Wink

Even if they look for your wallet on your PC/phone ,
your wallet data is not accessible to them because it's  encrypted with password  ( uhm.... have you set the password protection on your wallet... right? Wink ).

Of course you are not going to give them the wallet password.

Oh.. they tell you that you withdrawn the coins from an exchange,  so that's the proof you have the coins?
Just say that it was an hacker that stole your coins from the exchange,  not you.
You got robbed, and you don't have to pay taxes on the money that was stolen from you, right?

P.S. for the geeks: use Veracrypt Wink

well then prepare yourselves for a corrupt police, corrupt state and everything else corrupt too.

if someone steals your crappy bitcoins, you will have to pay to police to just "try" finding it again.

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February 01, 2019, 09:23:50 AM
 #112

I am not against the idea of taxation because it is the source of revenue for the governments to develop our countries. Indirectly, every crypto user is charged tax during transactions because the exchanges are charged to pay taxes and this is distributed amongst all members through the transaction fees.

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February 01, 2019, 09:45:15 AM
 #113

If my government requires me to pay tax on a bitcoin transaction then I'm willing to do it because it is the duty of every citizen. These taxes can also help improve the economy and services  of my country.Here in my country, the government did not yet put taxation on every bitcoin transaction because it is not yet legalized as a currency. But they are also planning to impose regulations on some crypto exchnages that are presently operatinghere.
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February 01, 2019, 10:05:55 AM
 #114

of course you don't have to pay any taxes with the cryptocurrency you have, with cryptocurrency you should be able to be free from the world of taxation, and tax people can't know how many assets you have, so you have to be calm and don't spend money on cryptocurrency tax , because it's not important.

 
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February 01, 2019, 11:26:00 AM
 #115

I agree with many people who wrote above that it is not worth the risk. If it is necessary to pay taxes for it, you are obliged to do it to avoid problems. But I understand you. I would also not want to pay taxes for crypto, because I earned it myself, without the help of the state and I want to get the whole amount, without tax. But even if you do not want to, it is better to pay tax and sleep peacefully.

Exactly, why would we pay taxes for crypto in the very first place? government don't even accept crypto here in my country and taxes are already on top of the merchandise we bought, so for me it's no need.
If we are required to pay taxes then there must be a guarantee or payback such as legalization, ease of shopping using bitcoin,
and so forth. of course we will be very happy to pay taxes, if nothing special is offered by the government, then no!

 
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February 01, 2019, 11:50:01 AM
 #116

its not a good thing not to pay taxes for what we earn in crpto i guess its all about simple contribution is a good thing for government since they need to regulate it too for security purposes dont get me wrong sir, but if you dont pay taxes you might get punish something worst in the future

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February 01, 2019, 12:14:55 PM
 #117

More and more countries, like Chile or India, are trying to tax their citizen for the crypto they hold.

Please don't pay taxes on your coins.
You really don't need it, unless you are totally ignorant.

It's simple: they cannot prove you have the coins on your PC/phone , so you don't have nothing to pay taxes on, as far as they know.
It's just their attempt to trick the ignorants that don't know about that Wink

Even if they look for your wallet on your PC/phone ,
your wallet data is not accessible to them because it's  encrypted with password  ( uhm.... have you set the password protection on your wallet... right? Wink ).

Of course you are not going to give them the wallet password.

Oh.. they tell you that you withdrawn the coins from an exchange,  so that's the proof you have the coins?
Just say that it was an hacker that stole your coins from the exchange,  not you.
You got robbed, and you don't have to pay taxes on the money that was stolen from you, right?

P.S. for the geeks: use Veracrypt Wink
I am imagining people that will pay taxes because of cryptocurrency and it's funny, why do you need to pay to government on something they can't regulate? As far as i know, when you buy coins on exchange its the exchange that will pay for tax because of service they made and for legality also but you as a trader/user you don't have to pay.

 
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February 01, 2019, 07:26:43 PM
 #118

This is quite a controversial tip, because in theory, bitcoin can not be taxed, since it is a decentralized currency. But you cannot fail to pay taxes since you are a citizen of your country. I think there are many nuances and there is no clear answer.
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February 01, 2019, 08:02:02 PM
 #119

Here it is difficult to solve unambiguously, but I think that if I appeared in a similar situation, I didn't pay taxes to the state for what they have no influence and that doesn't belong to them. The meaning of bitcoin is just the same to limit us from government interference, which means it can not be taxed.