Cryptos would only have value in a dystopian economy said JP Morgan

[bbc.reporter]

Thank Satoshi that bitcoin was invented because JP Morgan and friends are making the dystopian economy real hehehe.

However, bitcoin already has value, does that imply that we are already in a dystopian economy? Will a higher value also imply that we are deeper into dystopia? Have they run out of fud ideas?



Investment bank JPMorgan Chase has said that cryptocurrencies would only have value in a dystopian economy.

In a recent note to its clients, the firm said that it was skeptical of the value of cryptocurrencies apart from in a “dystopia” where investors have lost confidence in “all major reserve assets (dollar, euro, yen, gold) and in the payments system,” according to a report from Business Insider on Monday.

The banking giant further said that, though cryptocurrencies have a low correlation to traditional asset classes such as shares and bonds, they are not the best bet for diversification. “Low correlations have little value if the hedge asset itself is in a bear market.”

JPMorgan also reportedly said earlier this week that, with prices so low, bitcoin is worth less than the cost to mine it.

Source https://www.coindesk.com/cryptocurrencies-would-only-have-value-in-dystopian-economy-jpmorgan

[pooya87]

it is just another new negative name that they came up with to attack bitcoin since they can't repeat the same thing like bitcoin is fraud every time. in reality they really are showing their fear of bitcoin. and the more they try the more they show their true panic faces and as bitcoin continues to grow their panic hence their attacks will only increase.

[bbc.reporter]

@pooyah87. It is also quite ironic that an institution like JP Morgan brought up the thought of a dystopian economy when their kind are the kind of parasites that feed on the people and bring dystopia.

Do we thank them for giving bitcoin its value hehehe?

[Tytanowy Janusz]

Agree with JP Morgan only in realtion to coins which purpous is to transfer capital. Those cryptos value is based only on “dystopia" and .. speculations. Is there any other purpose ?

Cryptos which are not used only to transfer capital but are services based on blockchain that actually serve goods are above that.

[raven7886]

"Value" and "Price" are different things. Bitcoin might have a price right now but it doesn't mean it has a "value", there are a billion things in life that doesn't have a "value" if you ask me.

Anything you pay for doesn't have a "value" that suggests the price you pay, even a meal at a very expensive restaurant has a 100$ price tag doesn't really worth that much, it costs maaaybe 20 bucks to make it but they add the brand to it, look at iphones, there are countries where iphone is sold x10 the minimum monthly salary, do you really think it worth a 10 month salary ? Not at all however people still buy it because of the brand.

Value is long gone in our life, there are no more "value" for anything, there is just price and bitcoin has a price that JP Morgan is scared of because the higher it gets the less people will care about them.

[cabron]

They'd run out of fud to day to the community. If they can't bring the price down to how much it is since the time Dimon started shitting, its going to backfire to them. The blockchain technology alone speaks for itself and they can't make people see how its going to be flawed if used wisely. Someone in their side should advise them to buy more BTC.

[buwaytress]

The strange thing about that note to me is that they must have been really ignorant of the findings in recent years at least from Western economists and government think tanks who are certainly reporting that public trust in these very instruments are at all-time lows. People don't trust the government, they certainly don't trust the financial tools of the state, whether it be the banks or the physical pieces of paper backing their promise to holders.

If that's a dystopia, then certainly, it's already here or at least dawning.

"Value" and "Price" are different things. Bitcoin might have a price right now but it doesn't mean it has a "value", there are a billion things in life that doesn't have a "value" if you ask me.

Anything you pay for doesn't have a "value" that suggests the price you pay, even a meal at a very expensive restaurant has a 100$ price tag doesn't really worth that much, it costs maaaybe 20 bucks to make it but they add the brand to it, look at iphones, there are countries where iphone is sold x10 the minimum monthly salary, do you really think it worth a 10 month salary ? Not at all however people still buy it because of the brand.

Value is long gone in our life, there are no more "value" for anything, there is just price and bitcoin has a price that JP Morgan is scared of because the higher it gets the less people will care about them.

I do agree price and value are not equal, but can't agree that a willing buyer doesn't imply some kind of perceived value. People are willing to pay for something, they perceive a value in it.

Whether you or I see the same value in something as a willing buyer does? Or if you or I see the same value in Bitcoin as the thousands (hey, I'm conservative) of willing buyers at any given time do? Beside the point.

I don't see value in say... pieces of stone that supposedly come from magical beings. Would never pay anything for them. But clearly, people buy them all the time. Who am I to say there's no value in them?

[dothebeats]

So does that mean that we're already in a dystopian economy since bitcoin already has its value established on a lot of fronts, or they simply can't accept the fact that there are big names and a lot of people supporting bitcoin even if their projections tell them that it's not supposed to get any value at all. But yeah, knowing how JP Morgan had treated bitcoin for the past years, I can say that this is just another normal statement coming from their end. There are tons of cryptocurrencies that fits the description, though bitcoin surely and certainly isn't of those useless coins.

[gentlemand]

Typical American/Western blindness.

Many parts of the world have dystopian economies right this very moment where you can't trust what's in your pocket or bank account. USD or gold may not be obtainable for people stuck in such places.

[1Referee]

There are tons of cryptocurrencies that fits the description, though bitcoin surely and certainly isn't of those useless coins.

In case of Warren Buffett I would say that he considers every crypto currency to be the same, but in case of JPM, nope. This criminal bank is known to participate in market manipulation, and Bitcoin isn't an exception here; they want you coins for the lowest possible price, and they aren't shy of trashing it in a not so professional manner.

I'm glad that people start to wake up and consider most of what JPM comes up with an attempt to cause the price to tank.

As long as the fines these criminal banks end up paying for their manipulation aren't up there to what they make in profits every quarter or year, they will continue to laugh their way to.... you guessed it.... the bank.

[hatshepsut93]

I feel like some people in Bitcoin community also hold a similar belief, that Bitcoin will go to the moon as soon as fiat, stocks and traditional economy will collapse. So, it seems like both them and JP Morgan think that crypto and fiat can't coexist, and one must fail in order for the other to succeed.

[omonuyak]

We are watching and see how event unfolding. The cryptocurrencies market has been a talk of these big guys and that means it is something that has good values.  Jp Morgan is one of the bank that are going to investing in cryptocurrencies in future.

[exstasie]

I feel like some people in Bitcoin community also hold a similar belief, that Bitcoin will go to the moon as soon as fiat, stocks and traditional economy will collapse. So, it seems like both them and JP Morgan think that crypto and fiat can't coexist, and one must fail in order for the other to succeed.

Very true. I've always been troubled by that argument, that economic/stock market or USD collapse will send BTC to the moon. It's something I see very often on this forum.

I'm more of the mindset that Bitcoin and the legacy financial system can co-exist, much like gold does today. Bitcoin is just one form of money. It doesn't need to destroy everything in its path (and it probably won't).

[gentlemand]

I feel like some people in Bitcoin community also hold a similar belief, that Bitcoin will go to the moon as soon as fiat, stocks and traditional economy will collapse. So, it seems like both them and JP Morgan think that crypto and fiat can't coexist, and one must fail in order for the other to succeed.

They're wrong. A booming crypto is a luxury afforded by booming conventional markets. The money going into it doesn't appear from a vacuum. It's from people earning in fiat and cashing out other assets. In several decades it could conceivably be something you could move into and never look back. Until then it's dependent on the health of everything else out there.

[realr0ach]

The world already is a dystopia, but centralized, imaginary, valueless, digital shitcoins are still a garbage fugazi compared to physical metals.

[sandra_x]

J P Morgan is contradicting himself here, first he says that bitcoin has a low correlation with traditional markets on one hand, then he went further to label bitcoin as a poor diversification tool.This is argument is counter-productive as you would not want to diversify your portfolio using an asset class that a strong correlation with your traditional classes of investments, a strong correlation means both asset classes will move in same direction, when one goes down, the other follows since they are strongly correlated.
Low correlation is a good thing when you are considering diversification.
Secondly, it is no longer news that the traditional assets are on the losing ends, we are in a dystopia, and it is going to get worse, bitcoin will therefore grow in value according to his own argument

[exstasie]

I feel like some people in Bitcoin community also hold a similar belief, that Bitcoin will go to the moon as soon as fiat, stocks and traditional economy will collapse. So, it seems like both them and JP Morgan think that crypto and fiat can't coexist, and one must fail in order for the other to succeed.

They're wrong. A booming crypto is a luxury afforded by booming conventional markets. The money going into it doesn't appear from a vacuum. It's from people earning in fiat and cashing out other assets. In several decades it could conceivably be something you could move into and never look back. Until then it's dependent on the health of everything else out there.

In virtually all cases, I agree with you. Any major economic contraction should cause money to flow out from financial markets, particularly speculative ones.

There is one situation I wonder about, which takes things beyond traditional economic recessions or depressions. What would happen if, as one example, the USD collapsed into hyperinflation and this led to a contagion of fiat currency collapses? If faith in fiat currencies becomes shattered, I definitely expect states to return to gold-backed currency. It worked for many hundreds of years and it would be a simple reversion to the previous system. What I wonder is, what would that mean for Bitcoin? If money were to flow out of fiat currencies and into gold, would Bitcoin capture any of that market share as a decentalized, scarce asset?

[gentlemand]

What I wonder is, what would that mean for Bitcoin? If money were to flow out of fiat currencies and into gold, would Bitcoin capture any of that market share as a decentalized, scarce asset?

I'm sure it would capture a chunk, the chunk would increase the more entrenched it gets. However goldbug and Zerohedge assholes have been predicting this for decade after decade with absolutely no sign of it on the horizon. Who knows what creativity they'll throw at the problem. Either way a peaceful wider economy is better than chaos for crypto's progress. Uncool but true.

[cellard]

When physical cash is removed in the name of protection against terrorists and drug dealers, it will be the final nail in the coffin for arguments like this to be defended by JP Morgan and co, and it will be the start of the ultimate bullrun to end all bullruns. I can see Bitcoin being worth $1,000,000 overnight when these anti-financial-freedom policies start going up exponentially.


It's going to be great as well when Orwellian laws against owning gold start passing and they start stopping everyone trying to cross borders carrying any gold. Perhaps by then r0ach understands how gold is objectively inferior to Bitcoin.

[figmentofmyass]

When physical cash is removed in the name of protection against terrorists and drug dealers, it will be the final nail in the coffin for arguments like this to be defended by JP Morgan and co, and it will be the start of the ultimate bullrun to end all bullruns. I can see Bitcoin being worth $1,000,000 overnight when these anti-financial-freedom policies start going up exponentially.

from transitioning away from cash, really? that seems a bit overdramatic. i don't think average people care that much.

where i live, the "cashless society" fearmongering couldn't be any further from reality. most merchants here prefer cash, with many offering discounts to those who use it. gas stations and mechanics in particular always offer cash prices. i frequent a couple cash-only restaurants too. i just don't see it happening.

It's going to be great as well when Orwellian laws against owning gold start passing and they start stopping everyone trying to cross borders carrying any gold. Perhaps by then r0ach understands how gold is objectively inferior to Bitcoin.

stopping people at the border and confiscating gold, really? why do you expect this to happen?