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Author Topic: So, let's talk about that new abortion law...  (Read 273 times)
Spendulus
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February 04, 2019, 08:38:26 PM
 #21

So you don't have a problem with the concept of children not being humans until a year of age?
Right, because that's exactly what I said. Roll Eyes
At least for those of us in the USA, we should be knowledgable about the history of eugenics and the progressive trends including abortion. Those ideas were generated here, and carried over to Germany from here.

Calling them "Nazi ideas' and "thread degenerating into accusations of Nazi..." isn't really historically accurate.
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February 05, 2019, 12:22:18 AM
 #22

Governments need abortions to happen, this is how they get the ingredients to create vaccines.
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February 05, 2019, 04:45:14 AM
Last edit: February 05, 2019, 05:21:26 AM by CoinCube
 #23


And full disclosure, I'm for both. Yep, pro choice and pro life. You see, I'm a Christian. The Bible isn't clear enough on this, but in my heart I feel that every consideration to give the child to someone else should be attempted before abortion is an option. I just feel that is what Jesus would do. Our love for human life, and desire for it to be happy and optimal for all, I would logically assume means protecting the defenseless and preserving life.

On the other hand, I support a woman's choice to decide if she wants to carry a baby to term. While I may frown on it, it is not for me to decide as God has given us free will. Many impacted by this law are not Christian; given that there is a clear separation of Church and State, religious and moral considerations based off of Christianity dont really come into play here. This is not a power the State should have, the right to control one's own health outcomes. While I may frown on the act, my frown doesn't mean too much in the grand scheme.

Thoughts?

Sounds like your heart is in the right place but why do you feel the Bible is not clear on the topic? Both the Old Testament "Thou shalt not murder." and the New Testament "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." are very easy to apply to the situation.

Your free will argument is flawed. We do indeed have free will but that right stops when it infringes on the rights of others. Your right to life supersedes my right to kill you because you inconvenience me. The fact that you may be elderly and weak or disabled and disadvantaged or even a newborn and utterly helpless changes nothing in the moral calculus.

Abortion is not a "health outcome" it is the powerful and fully grown exercising power to snuff out the life of the helpless because that life is young, weak and dependent.

It is an act of barbarism that differs from the barbarism of earlier eras when helpless children were left to die because they were not born perfect or sacrificed to pagan idols only in manifestation not essence.

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February 05, 2019, 05:54:28 AM
 #24

^^^ In addition, when a man and a woman get together and make a baby, they are doing so in trust. The beneficiary is the baby's soul/spirit. The baby's body is the property in trust. The man is the grantor, and the woman is the trustee.

A woman getting an abortion is a trust breaker. And the trust she breaks is one that gives a body to an innocent soul/spirit.

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February 07, 2019, 04:18:28 PM
 #25

The medical and religious ethics correlate quite well when it comes to human lives. Medically, aborting a viable fetus is synonymous to taking a life. Unless the fetus is not medically viable or not performing the abortion could risk the life of the mother, then I don't think abortion should be legally allowed.

A part of the New York abortion law states that, "A health care practitioner may perform an abortion when, according to the practitioner’s reasonable and good faith professional judgment based on the facts of the patient’s case: the patient is within twenty-four weeks from the commencement of pregnancy, or there is an absence of fetal viability, or the abortion is necessary to protect the patient’s  life or health.”

 the part of this law I don't support is the issue of legalizing the abortion occuring before the 24th week of pregnancy (The 3rd trimester) Owing to the fact that the vast majority of abortions take place before the 24th week of pregnancy, the law is virtually covering over 90% of abortions without any segregation as to whether the fetus is be fit for delivery or not.

 In my opinion ( also from the religious and medical perspective), Provided the fetus is viable and it's delivery will not risk the life of the mother, the baby reserves the rights to be born. Even if the mother would give him out to a charity home of some sort, LET HIM STILL BE BORN.
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February 07, 2019, 04:24:37 PM
 #26

Well you mentioned the fact that Nazism was mentioned quite dismissively when there are some very valid reasons to make the comparison.

The link between me thinking any baby under 1 is not really more than an animal before the age of one because it has no self consciousness and Nazis being?

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February 07, 2019, 04:35:34 PM
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 #27

Well you mentioned the fact that Nazism was mentioned quite dismissively when there are some very valid reasons to make the comparison.

The link between me thinking any baby under 1 is not really more than an animal before the age of one because it has no self consciousness and Nazis being?

Your willingness to classify a population of your fellow human beings as Untermensch "inferior people" who are undeserving of the inherrent right to live.

The fact that you choose a different population of humans to apply your beliefs to is irrelevant. Some one else may decide it's the old and mentally incompetent who should be euthanized for the greater good or the young children with severe debilitating disabilities.

It's the same moral error wrapped up in different policy goals.

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February 07, 2019, 05:13:06 PM
 #28

Your willingness to classify a population of your fellow human beings as Untermensch "inferior people" who are undeserving of the inherrent right to live.
Never said that.
Quote

The fact that you choose a different population of humans to apply your beliefs to is irrelevant. Some one else may decide it's the old and mentally incompetent who should be euthanized for the greater good or the young children with severe debilitating disabilities.
Never said that.
Quote

It's the same moral error wrapped up in different policy goals.
What's the moral error in saying that someone having different mental abilities is different?

I say under 1 year old you have less mental habilities making you closer to an animal than once you grow and get new mental habilities.

You are the ones saying I want to kill babies under 1 year old Oo

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February 07, 2019, 05:57:58 PM
 #29

In my opinion before child birth, the mother should have full right to choose abortion or not. Some women might suffer mental, finance, or any terrible reason to keep the kid, if our sociality isn’t able to help woman give birth straight away, then don’t punish the woman if she don’t want to continue their pregnancy. I know there are many religious believe this is very cruel, but I think it is more cruel to punish a woman and give birth to unwanted child, it is painful to see abortion, I don’t think a woman want to harm their own body or own child for not reason.

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February 07, 2019, 06:17:41 PM
Last edit: February 07, 2019, 08:20:27 PM by CoinCube
 #30


What's the moral error in saying that someone having different mental abilities is different?

I say under 1 year old you have less mental habilities making you closer to an animal than once you grow and get new mental habilities.

You are the ones saying I want to kill babies under 1 year old Oo

I have no idea what your personal proclivities towards murder are and they are irrelevant.
There is nothing wrong in saying that human infants are more like animals than human adults. That is simple observation. However you said something very different.

Your claim is:
Children under 1 are not human

What is not human is not entitled to human rights by definition.

Whether you personally want to kill babies under one year of age is irrelevant. If people of your ideology are allowed to obtain power they will be missing the necessary moral check that makes it inconceivable to strip away the rights of the weak and vulnerable.

You are confused. You have mistaken right from wrong and up from down. Your confusion if allowed to spread and grow unopposed would someday allow people to lawfully murder babies under the age of one. Many people are confused like you are and as a result New York now allows fully developed and viable babies to be murdered up to the day of delivery if the mother can find an abortion doctor willing to claim that the babies continued life harms her mental health.  

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February 07, 2019, 06:29:43 PM
 #31

In my opinion before child birth, the mother should have full right to choose abortion or not. Some women might suffer mental, finance, or any terrible reason to keep the kid, if our sociality isn’t able to help woman give birth straight away, then don’t punish the woman if she don’t want to continue their pregnancy. I know there are many religious believe this is very cruel, but I think it is more cruel to punish a woman and give birth to unwanted child, it is painful to see abortion, I don’t think a woman want to harm their own body or own child for not reason.

The woman made a deal with the man to get pregnant if it came to that. If she wanted to be safe, she should have abstained.

Now that she is pregnant, she should kill the baby?!?

There might be a few cases where arrangements need to be made... like rape, or where the birth of the child will for-a-fact kill the mother. But the arrangements shouldn't include death of the child.

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February 12, 2019, 12:26:22 AM
 #32

I suspect this whole blackface event was designed to distract from these new post birth abortion laws...

BITCOINTALK STAFF SELECTIVELY ENFORCE THE RULES IN AN ATTEMPT TO CREATE A CHILL EFFECT AND PERMANENTLY REMOVE ME AND OTHERS FROM THIS FORUM AS RETALIATION FOR SPEAKING OUT ABOUT THEIR ABUSIVE BEHAVIOR, AND THAT OF THEIR PERSONAL CLIQUES.
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