Can users be banned for using known English proverbs and sayings?

[Pmalek]

I tried to search if this was discussed before but couldn't find such a topic. I think it would be important to discuss whether or not a user can be banned for using well known proverbs and sayings.

1. Can and should a user be banned if he/she uses a famous quote without providing reference to the original author?
For example:
"You miss 100 percent of the shots you don't take." - Wayne Gretzky
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

2. Can and should a user be banned if he/she uses well known proverbs and sayings?
For example:
"When in Rome, do as the Romans."
"People who live in glass houses should not throw stones."
"Better late than never."


For the first group of quotes I believe that it is necessary to give credit to the original authors, in this case to Wayne Gretzky and Albert Einstein. But what if you have heard the quote many times in your life and you have no idea who said it? Should you research it on google out of fear from being banned?
Regarding the well known proverbs and sayings I don't think it is necessary to provide a source, in some cases it might not even be possible to find one.

Out of curiosity I researched the "When in Rome, do as the Romans" proverb and found out the following:

This interesting idiom is often shortened to 'when in Rome' perhaps because it’s such a well-known phrase. The origin of the idiom 'When in Rome, do as the Romans do' was first seen in print in 1777, in Interesting Letters of Pope Clement XIV: “The siesta or afternoon’s nap of Italy, my most dear and reverend Father, would not have alarmed you so much, if you had recollected, that when were at Rome, we should do as the Romans do – cum Romanus eris.” This use suggests that the idiom was already well-known, and variations of it can be seen in examples dating from as early as the late 1500s.

Sources used:
https://www.phrasemix.com/collections/the-50-most-important-english-proverbs
https://www.inc.com/sujan-patel/101-inspiring-quotes-from-the-most-successful-people-in-history.html
https://www.gingersoftware.com/content/phrases/when-in-rome-do-as-the-romans-do/#.XFm7RKpKiM8

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[Jet Cash]

What would be next? Banning posters for using descriptive phrases somebody else created ? Examples could be " weekend", Birthday", "blockchain", and longer ones such as "exponential moving averrage".

[bL4nkcode]

Well, it seems complicated to me. So far I don't see any user used a famous /known proverbs/sayings and get banned, most people used these words for reminders/sarcasm/encouragement and etc. Like Not your keys, not your bitcoins and prevention is better than cure.

But there are some quotes/sayings from other company/organization though not that famous as Einstein but gives an impact on this industry (ICO/project whitepaper, devs, CEO, etc.) then used by some company/users here as their own words without giving proper credit, then it should be addressed as plagiarism.

But if you're talking from words/sayings of some influencers/famous people in the industry like Antonopoulos, vitalik, satoshi, or anywhere else, maybe mods should not be considered it as plagiarized content, just my opinion.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

I've sort of wondered about this myself, where the line exactly is when it comes to word combinations and what constitutes plagiarism.  Pretty sure that bitcointalk doesn't have a set standard, but I don't know if any standard exists in places like academia as far as using idioms and such.  If it's a quote from a famous person, I would think you should cite the source even if it's in an informal manner--that Wayne Gretzky quote I'd never heard before, and I'm of the opinion that if someone wrote that here they ought to mention where it came from. 

However, I would not ban someone for not saying it came from Gretzky.  There's a big difference between writing out something you have in your memory versus selecting some text with your mouse and copy/pasting it into your post.

[khaled0111]

If it is a well known proverb, I think it would be enough to write it inside quotation marks.

[tmfp]

What Is Common Knowledge?
Unlike quotations or paraphrased ideas, information that's considered "common knowledge" doesn't need to be cited. "Common knowledge" is information that's considered widely known or easily verified. These likely don't need to be cited for the average American audience, since most people will already know or easily be able to verify them as facts.

Barack Obama is the current president of the United States of America.
Water boils at 100°C or 212°F.
Common knowledge can change depending on your culture, geographic location, age, or other factors. For example, information about American presidents might be common knowledge in the United States, but might not be common knowledge in another country.

Common Phrases or Idioms

Common phrases or idioms might be quoted often, but these don't need to be cited. Often, we don't know who first said them, or they've been repeated for so many years that they've become a common part of our vocabulary. The following are some examples of common American English phrases that don't need to be cited:

Don't let the cat out of the bag.
A stitch in time saves nine.

This seems reasonable.

Source:https://laney.libguides.com/c.php?g=416330&p=2836972

[stompix]

I tried to search if this was discussed before but couldn't find such a topic. I think it would be important to discuss whether or not a user can be banned for using well known proverbs and sayings.

Did we have one situation when this happened?
I don't think it's going to be possible mainly because the ones using proverbs or sayings usually are not shitposters, I don't think there is anyone else other than <> that would search the posts of serious users around here for plagiarism.

Longer proverbs are easy to get identified and shorter ones will make no more of 20% even out of a short shitpost, don't think any of the moderators, even if they are non-native speakers will ban somebody for only this much.





And if we search for...Ignorantia juris non excusat...some pretty interesting names would get in trouble...

[Alone055]

I don't believe someone would/should get banned for that.
There are always ways of putting something like that in your text, which would generally specify that you are not trying to convey it as your own, but maybe you don't know the original author of it, or from where it has come since it is so general, and famous too. For example:

1. If using a famous quote:
.... as it is said, "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.".....

Now in this case, it is obvious, and the reader should probably understand that I'm not trying to use that quote as my own, but I just don't remember the author, nor I need to mention it if I'm saying it in that way, and I don't deserve a ban for plagiarism for doing this.

2. If using a proverb/saying:
... as they say, "Better late than never.".....

It is obvious again, that I'm referring to a general proverb/saying that everyone use, and I'm not trying to make it look like my own. So, I'm not plagiarizing, hence, no ban deserved.

[Jet Cash]

A lot of these sayings are used without people understanding the origins. "Don't let the cat out of the bag" refers to the old market practice of trying to sell a wild cat in a sack, and pretending it is a pig. The associated quote is "Don't buy a pig in a poke".

"The cat is out of the bag" is a nautical expression, and refer to the removal of a cat o' nine tails from its protective pouch, and is a preliminary to the administration of a severe punishment.

ps. readers of the Fit to Talk English project will have read this several months ago.

[Harkorede]

I don't think I've seen anyone banned for using proverbs, neither do I think they should be banned for it either, If the proverbs are used to buttress a point or an idea. Proverbs should be considered just like idiomatic expressions that can be used to express an idea.

[theymos]

If you don't have the intent to pass off someone else's work as your own in order to pad your post count/size, then you don't deserve a ban, at least.

By university standards, well-known quotes should be in quotation marks, but need not be cited. Sayings don't need quotation marks.

[bones261]

If you don't have the intent to pass off someone else's work as your own in order to pad your post count/size, then you don't deserve a ban, at least.

By university standards, well-known quotes should be in quotation marks, but need not be cited. Sayings don't need quotation marks.

So in other words, saying like "Fasten your seat belts, it's going to be a bumpy night." should have quotes but sayings like a stitch in time saves nine doesn't need to be quoted. Correct?

[Joel_Jantsen]

If you don't have the intent to pass off someone else's work as your own in order to pad your post count/size, then you don't deserve a ban, at least.

By university standards, well-known quotes should be in quotation marks, but need not be cited. Sayings don't need quotation marks.

So in other words, saying like "Fasten your seat belts, it's going to be a bumpy night." should have quotes but sayings like a stitch in time saves nine doesn't need to be quoted. Correct?

Being someone who is writing their thesis, my University has a very very strict plagiarism detection system. The rule of thumb is - If you didn't say it, either quote it or rephrase it. If you don't, it's going to be highlighted by the plagiarism detector. But posts on bitcointalk are no academic articles so one wouldn't expect to quote the common phrases. However, if you rip off a paragraph from Satoshi's White-paper in a post with a signature on, you do deserve to get banned if you didn't quote it. The case of bans we have on the forum isn't as easy as ripping a paragraph off a white-paper. People who probably can't write a word in Engish plagiarise content off the internet to monetize their posts which is intolerable.

[Pmalek]

There's a big difference between writing out something you have in your memory versus selecting some text with your mouse and copy/pasting it into your post.

Good point but the problem is that some famous quotes, like the Gretzky quote, are very easy to remember. Read it once or twice and it is stuck into your mind. Now if you use it in a post somewhere based on your memory, which could be 100% the same as the quote, since it is that easy, you might run into a problem.

@tmfp
Yes that seems reasonable. Pretty much what I though in regards to common proverbs and sayings.

@theymos
Thanks for taking the time and explaining it.

@Joel_Jantsen
You are right, it doesn't hurt to quote anything that doesn't originate from you just to be on the safe side. 

[TECSHARE]

If you don't have the intent to pass off someone else's work as your own in order to pad your post count/size, then you don't deserve a ban, at least.

By university standards, well-known quotes should be in quotation marks, but need not be cited. Sayings don't need quotation marks.

So in other words, saying like "Fasten your seat belts, it's going to be a bumpy night." should have quotes but sayings like a stitch in time saves nine doesn't need to be quoted. Correct?

I think the overall takeaway he is trying to express is if you aren't plagiarizing in order to farm your account stats you shouldn't worry too much about it. But also yes.

[bones261]

If you don't have the intent to pass off someone else's work as your own in order to pad your post count/size, then you don't deserve a ban, at least.

By university standards, well-known quotes should be in quotation marks, but need not be cited. Sayings don't need quotation marks.

So in other words, saying like "Fasten your seat belts, it's going to be a bumpy night." should have quotes but sayings like a stitch in time saves nine doesn't need to be quoted. Correct?

I think the overall takeaway he is trying to express is if you aren't plagiarizing in order to farm your account stats you shouldn't worry too much about it. But also yes.

Well, at the moment I don't have anything to worry about since I already enjoy the highest rank that I could possibly aspire to and I am not involved in a signature campaign. However, it would be nice to know the fine points in case I ever do decide to join a signature campaign. There is a large team of people who spend a good deal of time finding and reporting copy pasta.

[mikeywith]

I am not sure, but i think the forum might be using some sort of a paid plagiarism detector software, these programs are very sophisticated, they know what is to be considered as plagiarism  and what is not, we had access to such tools during university , and non of the famous or common sentences would show up as plagiarism.

this can also be done using free online plagiarism checker and simple logic as well, using your example "You miss 100 percent of the shots you don't take." ( had to quote it tho, can't take the risk  )





194,000 results at least, this is clearly something that people use everyday and it's not considered plagiarism.

[virendarnagpal]

Even the words we are writing/using were discovered in the past by  our forefathers .  By using these words we are not being banned on the grounds that these are not ours own.   
If one uses popular proverb and sayings as part of his / her message; so that readers are able to understand what he/she desires to express, I think no objection should be there in it.  Everybody knows that these proverbs or sayings being used presently, were discovered by someone else in the past.
The concept behind our message  should be our own. this rule must be followed.

[mOgliE]

Wahou

It's going too far for me. The day you start enforcing such rules I'm out for good.

There is a clear ill-intent in plagiarism. Plagiarism means taking the work on someone else and making it look like yourself. Hence popular proverbs can't be seen as plagiarism because everybody knows it's not yours. For the famous people quotes parts... Isn't it obvious that there is a difference between taking one sentence from someone and taking an article?

By the way I think you can take pretty much any sentence in the forum and find it somewhere else. You can't really be banned for one sentence plagiarism because that's impossible to prove you willingly took this sentence or just wrote something that someone else happened to have written somewhere else.

[Pmalek]

I am not sure, but i think the forum might be using some sort of a paid plagiarism detector software,

I am not sure they do because users who get banned are often banned because of posts written months or sometimes 1-2 years ago. If there was an automatic way to do it I think those users would have gotten banned much earlier. We have users working on finding plagiarism on the forum and surely they use some type of software but I don't think the forum has an automatic way to detect it.

Btw that picture you posted, what software is that?