Ron Paul: Who's Opposing The Socialists Attack on Capitalism?

[Artemis3]

nope in socialist societies you also work for money. but socialist societies focus on infrastructure investments, in capitalist societies when no one is opposing it, the capitalists usually just centre the economy on themselves the problem with capitalism is that it is just an attention hack with a bunch of money printers taking power and then trying to controll the financial system and centre it on themselves. like we can see with bitcoin (lambos, moon corrupt cryptocurrency index etc.).

This occurs in collusion with the state. A BIG state with lots of "controls" bureaucracy and meddling, such as Keynesian or the Chicago school. If they can "money print", they have the control of the money. Austrians proposed just using gold almost century ago, but we now also have crypto which can't be tainted neither by state nor private conglomerates. Some people got in early and cashed the benefits (and some were fool to sell at a loss or not hold, etc) so be it, its within their freedom. The coin is out there and can be used. With time its price will slowly stabilize, and go in the deflationary direction, if only because every fiat and even some cryptos go the inflation way...

I think the best way to oppose socialism is education. Lets start here:

💱 Price System | Free Market vs. Government Intervention


"Do nothing" (to the government) is exactly the opposite of socialist thinking. Socialists want the almighty government to meddle in everything, but it turns out they make things WORSE, when they do so. It "sounds" desirable in theory, until you learn how things really work in real life.

My country went down the path of (real) socialist economy, and is now among the worst living conditions on Earth for the vast majority of its citizens (as opposed to a small super rich elite connected to the politicians) Ironically, exactly what the socialists denounce they will "correct" (by force under State intervention), ends causing a much worse situation.

Austrian school economy is powerful against socialism. Most of their rhetoric finds (correctly) flaws in other types of (unfortunately) more popular schools of economy. Ie. Wealth by debt is fast, but produces constant bubbles and recession. That's the economy supported by fractional reserve banking, it is the same economy that keeps Ponzi schemes profitable, after all, there is people getting rich

[coins4commies]

Yeah just like in all of the developed countries with free healthcare....Why would anyone work when they could just go and just get free surgeries over and over for the rest of their life?

In addition to your privilege of being in the 1% and having the means to start your own business, you have no idea what socialism is.  Can't start your own business?  Where did you get that from unless you're talking about private insurance company?

Ah, so only 1% can start a shop now? Only 1% can do freelancing? Only 1% can buy stocks, forex or crypto and earn a living from it? Are you still living in late 19th century? I suppose only the wealthy get to ride the train too?

Pretty much if you aren't in the 1%, or being supported by a family member in it, then you have to go to work each day or you will starve.  There isn't flexibility of time or disposable income to do any of the things you mention. 

Free healthcare, free education, free housing, free food, free gasoline, where does it end? Why bother working when the State is in the obligation to provide all? And how does that State gets wealth to keep everything running? And who gets to watch that wealth is used according to plan? Oh it all works perfectly, nobody treats it bad because its public ownership... Reality: everyone treats it like garbage "because its not mine, I don't care if it breaks". Now extend that disease to society... What you own you care for, what you don't own you don't care. The "New Man" is not coming, ever. Socialist countries do not freeze in time by choosing, they no longer have the means to renew. If something breaks it might be the last time you had that thing.

Not everything but the bare necessities to get people started. Think about it this way.  What does a child need to have a good life? (go on to start a business or freelance, etc)  Everyone should have those things.  Even if you don't think adults deserve those things, depriving adults only punishes their children.  We aren't talking about giving people everything they desire.  Just the necessities.

In real socialism you do not own anything, and you can't start a shop, it belongs to the State. And only the State decides if a shop there is worth having, and who is going to run it, and what prices should have and what wage you will earn. At the end of it, it would have been better to stay at home than waste your time with such a miserable pay that you end working for free for the State, and sometimes even paying for the "privilege".

This is a lie.  Socialism abolishes private property but not personal property.   You can still own everything except someone else's personal property or someone else's labor.  You cannot own the means of production.  Under democratic socialism, you cannot build a factory to manufacture things the community decides it does not need.  Think about the amazon HQ2 as a good example of corporate socialism.  The community decided it didn't need to spend 3 billion building amazon's hq2 so they will spend that money on affordable housing, infrastructure, and small businesses instead. 

The reason you defend socialism is because it sounds so pretty from your theoretical utopian point of view, but you haven't lived in the results from it. You point to free healthcare, but real socialism doesn't end there. It takes everything from you, destroys it, and then blames "others" from all the failures.

Starvation in China's Mao? Imperialists. Starvation in Sung's Korea? Imperialists. Starvation in Castro's Cuba? Imperialists. Yet all the surrounding "capitalist" countries with the "masses of poor exploited workers", happen to be well fed and living worried on things like: When its the next drama episode coming out?, or the new "shiny new toy", will i be able to afford it? Should i get a second part time job to buy it? While someone in the socialist countries wonders if the bar soap will hold for the next year before he/she might (or might not) get to obtain the next one...

When someone mentions me socialism, image of stagnation and misery is what comes to mind. I don't need to imagine it, unlike the theoretical socialists living in wealthy nations like most of you are, all i need to do is go outside...

Why do you think it failed in Venezuela with all that Oil that would make it perfect for the socialist experiment to "finally work"? After all, the others were poor countries and surely couldn't afford those dreams; but Venezuela could right? Nope, they broke the State oil company. The socialist machinery leads to corruption, and a new super elite and wealthy class, this time protected by the state (just like the old monarchies) emerges under the guise of "socialism" while the masses die outside the palace/presidential villa. The irony is that a similar country, with an actual monarchy (The Saudis) actually got much better results. Because unlike real socialism, they didn't mess with the market.

You aren't mentioning democratic socialism.  You are mentioning state socialism where the entire economy is dictated by a small group of people.  We are in agreement that this is bad and I don't know anyone who advocates for these examples.  Therefore, any further mention of them will be correctly labeled as strawman. 

[TECSHARE]

There is no such thing as democratic socialism. Democratic Socialism is just re-branded Fabian Socialism. All forms of Socialism are on the spectrum of Communism and based on Marxist theory. It is a system designed to create more of itself until a full Communist state is attained.

[KingScorpio]

There is no such thing as democratic socialism. Democratic Socialism is just re-branded Fabian Socialism. All forms of Socialism are on the spectrum of Communism and based on Marxist theory. It is a system designed to create more of itself until a full Communist state is attained.

hey if you love capitalism so much, i can help you i can also abuse you as money earning cattle, and i promise i will not be social i will centre the economy 100% on myself, every aspect of the economy will be centered on me nothing for you except some bad rice every day. you will get a 1m² to live with an old dirty sleeping back and a toilet that will basically just be a bowl you have to empty regularily.

you are sitting in the usa, a country that cant even produce the good it needs, and is constantly indebting itself globally. without chinese, germans, and japanese constantly funding your debt you and your capitalism would end up in a war striken third world society.

i join every capitalism no matter how cruel  if i have access to the financial system

[coins4commies]

There is no such thing as democratic socialism. Democratic Socialism is just re-branded Fabian Socialism. All forms of Socialism are on the spectrum of Communism and based on Marxist theory. It is a system designed to create more of itself until a full Communist state is attained.

Communism is even more democratic than democratic socialism.  Coming from someone who has lived on an actual commune.

[TECSHARE]

There is no such thing as democratic socialism. Democratic Socialism is just re-branded Fabian Socialism. All forms of Socialism are on the spectrum of Communism and based on Marxist theory. It is a system designed to create more of itself until a full Communist state is attained.

Communism is even more democratic than democratic socialism.  Coming from someone who has lived on an actual commune.

So you lived with a small handful of smelly hippies. Cool story bro, I guess we can scale it up to the nation state now without problem!

[mOgliE]

start your own business, something socialism would never let you to do...

In socialism the free market is gone and replaced by a State institution that decides everything from prices, to what you can work in and when, therefore the power to freely choose is taken away from the people and given to the bureaucrats.

If that's not the best example of confusion between communism and socialism I don't know what it is.

You understand that in a socialism state, not only is the free market not gone, but creating a company is both easier and less risky?

[Artemis3]

start your own business, something socialism would never let you to do...

In socialism the free market is gone and replaced by a State institution that decides everything from prices, to what you can work in and when, therefore the power to freely choose is taken away from the people and given to the bureaucrats.

If that's not the best example of confusion between communism and socialism I don't know what it is.

You understand that in a socialism state, not only is the free market not gone, but creating a company is both easier and less risky?

False. A bureaucrat decides if you can open it or not, most often he will deny it because he has the power and you don't. Most business disappear or go underground, since they would violate a decree or "law" anyway. Those few with enough money to bribe can usually manage to get their permit, so it becomes a privilege for few to run a business in a socialist state. Quite the opposite of what socialists preach, ironically.

Socialists want the almighty State to intervene everything, and overwhelm society with so many rules and regulations, even if you tried to follow to the letter it would take years to get anything done. It is a system that removes entrepreneurial stimulus and replaces it with bribe and corruption.

Then what, want to hire a worker? Can't hire it for few hours, must be all 8, can't work 2 or 3, hast to be all 5. Cannot work more than 8 hours, else you have to pay him double. You can't fire the worker if your business is going bad, you have to sink with him, etc, etc.

Hiring a worker is too difficult and expensive under socialism, and this is only the tip of the iceberg. Socialism is a true Pandora box once you open, your country can go from being the most rich to the most poor. Socialism is a corruption machine.

If i haven't lived it myself, i would have never understood Milton Friedman's quote:

"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand."

Of course reading books and watching classes of Austrian Economics gave me the clear answer, Mises book is the definitive answer to Socialism.

Education in economy is the answer.

[coins4commies]

A beureacrat deciding what workers can do is a hallmark of capitalism.  Under soialism, the entire community would decide together what they will produce based on needs of the community. 

You keep talking about what "socialists want" but show me socialists who want that.  As a socialist, I've never met them.  Of course someone who only learns about socialism from capitalists will grow to hate socialism.  Instead of letting capitalists tell you what socialists want and what socilaism is, maybe you should start with primary sources. 

https://www.socialistpartyusa.net/principles-points-of-agreement

Socialism is not mere government ownership, a welfare state, or a repressive bureaucracy. Socialism is a new social and economic order in which workers and consumers control production and community residents control their neighborhoods, homes, and schools.  The production of society is used for the benefit of all humanity, not for the private profit of a few. Socialism produces a constantly renewed future by not plundering the resources of the earth.

[TECSHARE]

A beureacrat deciding what workers can do is a hallmark of capitalism.  Under soialism, the entire community would decide together what they will produce based on needs of the community. 

You keep talking about what "socialists want" but show me socialists who want that.  As a socialist, I've never met them.  Of course someone who only learns about socialism from capitalists will grow to hate socialism.  Instead of letting capitalists tell you what socialists want and what socilaism is, maybe you should start with primary sources. 

https://www.socialistpartyusa.net/principles-points-of-agreement

Socialism is not mere government ownership, a welfare state, or a repressive bureaucracy. Socialism is a new social and economic order in which workers and consumers control production and community residents control their neighborhoods, homes, and schools.  The production of society is used for the benefit of all humanity, not for the private profit of a few. Socialism produces a constantly renewed future by not plundering the resources of the earth.

You have serious problems registering the difference between reality and theory, or in your case fantasy. Your little hippie commune system does not scale up to a national level. There will always be representatives. Even if technology allowed it pure Democracy is shit and is not desirable, it is nothing more than mob rule where individuals have no rights. Nothing good comes of it.

[mOgliE]

False. A bureaucrat decides if you can open it or not, most often he will deny it because he has the power and you don't. Most business disappear or go underground, since they would violate a decree or "law" anyway. Those few with enough money to bribe can usually manage to get their permit, so it becomes a privilege for few to run a business in a socialist state. Quite the opposite of what socialists preach, ironically.

Socialists want the almighty State to intervene everything, and overwhelm society with so many rules and regulations, even if you tried to follow to the letter it would take years to get anything done. It is a system that removes entrepreneurial stimulus and replaces it with bribe and corruption.

Ahahahahahah
Oh god what the hell dude? You're completely broken braindead xD

Then what, want to hire a worker? Can't hire it for few hours, must be all 8, can't work 2 or 3, hast to be all 5. Cannot work more than 8 hours, else you have to pay him double. You can't fire the worker if your business is going bad, you have to sink with him, etc, etc.

yeeeeeeeeeeees of coooooooooooooooourse. Don't bother giving real life examples of such things.

Hiring a worker is too difficult and expensive under socialism, and this is only the tip of the iceberg. Socialism is a true Pandora box once you open, your country can go from being the most rich to the most poor. Socialism is a corruption machine.

yeah I feel you, really.

If i haven't lived it myself, i would have never understood Milton Friedman's quote:

"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand."

Of course reading books and watching classes of Austrian Economics gave me the clear answer, Mises book is the definitive answer to Socialism.

Education in economy is the answer.

Ok so please could you like either provide just a tiny little fact?
Cause here you're just ranting about how horrible socialism giving completely crazy examples (like how you can't hire/fire a worker or whatever) and as someone living in a socialist country and having opened a business here I never saw such thing.

On the contrary opening a business in a socialist country is surprisingly easy and secured.

My first business was opened in 8 hours and the great thing was that with the evil devil socialist government I wasn't risking all I have in the business. If I failed then I had some legal protection making it impossible for the banks/suppliers/clients to come and take what my family had.

But yeah just continue ranting about how horrible socialism is xD

And please go back to school <3

[mOgliE]

You have serious problems registering the difference between reality and theory, or in your case fantasy. Your little hippie commune system does not scale up to a national level. There will always be representatives. Even if technology allowed it pure Democracy is shit and is not desirable, it is nothing more than mob rule where individuals have no rights. Nothing good comes of it.

So could your incredible mind propose an alternative? As democracy is evil.

[Artemis3]

False. A bureaucrat decides if you can open it or not, most often he will deny it because he has the power and you don't. Most business disappear or go underground, since they would violate a decree or "law" anyway. Those few with enough money to bribe can usually manage to get their permit, so it becomes a privilege for few to run a business in a socialist state. Quite the opposite of what socialists preach, ironically.

Socialists want the almighty State to intervene everything, and overwhelm society with so many rules and regulations, even if you tried to follow to the letter it would take years to get anything done. It is a system that removes entrepreneurial stimulus and replaces it with bribe and corruption.

Ahahahahahah
Oh god what the hell dude? You're completely broken braindead xD

While you are dreaming unicorns in your fantasy world, i'm living in it, but hopefully not for much longer...

The things i wrote come from specific cases from 15+ years living in "socialism", but i don't need to convince you since you don't care about the truth.

Move to Cuba and see all your fantastic utopian theories go wrong, because you ignore the human nature thinking people will act like you wish them to. Well they don't, humanity tried in several places and all of them failed the same way. It is the likes of you who are completely "braindead", but you don't dare come without money and live in your socialist dreams for various years. Happily preaching from wealthy capitalist countries without worries of lacking medicine, food or a foreign invasion, all thanks to your types in the world filling the youth with garbage.

Socialism is dead and buried and that's where it should always be.

[mOgliE]

Move to Cuba

Exactly what I said.
Cuba is communist not socialist.
Know the difference.

Replace all your "socialism" by "communism" and I would fairly agree with you.

[TECSHARE]

Move to Cuba

Exactly what I said.
Cuba is communist not socialist.
Know the difference.

Replace all your "socialism" by "communism" and I would fairly agree with you.

"Socialism: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done"

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism


Socialism is the introductory stages of Communism, both based in Marxist theory. They are indistinguishable except in scale and progression. Socialism is designed to be a delivery mechanism for Communism. Maybe before advocating for an ideology you should actually know something about it.

[Artemis3]

This is a short audio clip, but very spot on on this matter:


The Destructive Cycle of Socialism

This person mentions the same things. if people had basic economics education, they wouldn't fall for socialist lies.

Everyone should know rising minimal wages is bad because it reduces jobs and chances for getting better wages (by switching to a better job on a market with plenty of job offers) vs a socialist order to rise the wage, then nobody wants to hire people get stuck with what miserable job they are with.

In the same vein, a socialist order to "Lower prices" immediately provokes shortages and outrageous prices in a "black" (illegal) market, which is the only place you will find things again...

Notice how socialist can only act by force, and not freedom of choice. In a free market economy, prices of goods will either go down or improve, due to competition. Socialists don't care about competition, and consider it wasteful. Surely if those "wasted" were used to, say, help the poor, everyone would live better right?... WRONG, the moment you put those resources in hands of someone not involved with the market, ie. the bureoucrat, corruption ensues, AND you lose: the abundance, the quality and the wealth you were intending to give to the poor, and the poor can't even work to solve his problem, he is then forced to "find away" in the system ie. bribe, or commit a crime of becoming part of the "black" market...

You don't know these things because you have not lived the results of your beautiful socialist theories, and where they lead to. Granted, it sounds attractive, to someone who:

A) Lacks basic economics education.
B) Has not experienced it first hand.

Millenials, grew up in abundance, have not studied basic economics, become easy pray for socialists...

Want to destroy a country? Let socialists in power.

[mOgliE]

Millenials, grew up in abundance, have not studied basic economics, become easy pray for socialists...

Funny how so many people simply say "you have not studies basic economics" as the best argument against left while... It's simply not true.

I don't have a major in economics but I did study macro and micro economic for about 3 years as a secondary learning. I'm still socialist. I know tons of people in the same case.

Did you learn a bit of economics? Have you read Smith? Haven't you been pissed at the fact that all the wonderful theories still rulling current economy are all based on completely stupid assumptions like "equality of knowledge" or "perfect competition" or even "rationnal behaviour" which are all completely crazy assumptions?

[KingScorpio]

capitalism naturally causes hate, war and violence,

i feel the natural behavir due to spam in my telegram groups, from american icos, that spread their spam with bots into the world.

capitalism sucks and is scam, but in communism there is also capitalism.

regards

there is no real escape from it.

doing capitalism means basically changing an eternal shifting centre, and constantly seek the attention hack and then flood the people with "coins"

[KingScorpio]

Millenials, grew up in abundance, have not studied basic economics, become easy pray for socialists...

jes abundance and why should they degrade themselves under a captialist that wants to threat them like money earning cattle for private wealth gains?

its not that socialist banking doesnt, work, in socialism there is also capitalism, just a social one.

you dont understand that

[Artemis3]

Millenials, grew up in abundance, have not studied basic economics, become easy pray for socialists...

jes abundance and why should they degrade themselves under a captialist that wants to threat them like money earning cattle for private wealth gains?
its not that socialist banking doesnt, work, in socialism there is also capitalism, just a social one.
you dont understand that

Reading just Smith? How about you read Mises? scared to learn the truth?

 Here is what socialism really is:

• Day 36 : Video 1 | Socialism: Definition
• D36:V2 | Socialism as an Intelectual Error
• D36:V3 | The Impossibility of Socialism from the Viewpoint of Society
• D36:V4 | The Impossibility of Socialism from the Perspective of the Governing Body
• D36:V5 | Why Computers Make the Impossibility of Socialism Even More Certain
• D36:V6 | Other Theoretical Consequences of Socialism (I)
• D36:V7 | Other Theoretical Consequences of Socialism (II)
• Day 37 : Video 1 | Real Socialism, Democratic Socialism and Conservative Socialism
• D37:V2 | Scientistic Socialism, Christian or Solidarity Based Socialism and Syndicalist Socialism
• D37:V3 | Criticism of the Alternative Concepts of Socialism
• D37:V4 | Interventionism
• D37:V5 | The Direct Intervention of the Government on Consumption

Professor Jesús Huerta de Soto shared his classes on Youtube, if you are interested in studying other aspects of economy, go to his channel. Content is available in Spanish and now dubbed in English. Highly recommended.


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