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Author Topic: New hardware wallets  (Read 303 times)
OmegaStarScream
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February 08, 2019, 04:25:32 PM
 #1

Ledger nano S and Trezor are clearly controlling the market right now.

A few months from now, which project do you think will manage to deliver a better product?

I have been reading about XZEN & Coinvest vault and I have to say that they look good. I'm a little bit skeptic about how open source they will be though. If they are not, It would be useless clearly.

There is also OraSaifu which looks overkill and expensive, probably not for the average joe and I also don't like the idea of having a device where you have your seed instead of writing it a paper.

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February 08, 2019, 05:20:23 PM
 #2

Although those new projects are interesting and competition is always good, I will stick with Trevor/ledger

They are far more tested and more reliable.


There is also the blockchain.com hardwallet, lockbox which lookike a ledger nano.
https://www.blockchain.com/lockbox

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February 08, 2019, 05:31:27 PM
Merited by OmegaStarScream (2), vapourminer (1), ETFbitcoin (1), HeRetiK (1), o_e_l_e_o (1), DireWolfM14 (1)
 #3

There is also OraSaifu which looks overkill and expensive, probably not for the average joe and I also don't like the idea of having a device where you have your seed instead of writing it a paper.

I didn't look into the first two, but the first which caught my eye when visiting their website was this (below "QR code data transmission,  isolated from the Internet world":
Quote
..SHA asymmetric encryption..

Either this was a very very embarrassing mistake, or they don't really have a clue what they are talking about.

1. SHA is an hashing algorithm, not an encryption algorithm
2. There is no need to use asymmetric encryption. Symmetric encryption is way faster and more secure compared to asymmetric encryption when using the same keysize


This statement alone tells me personally to keep far away from this wallet.
If they mix up hashing with encryption, how are they supposed to build a secure hardware wallet ?





There is also the blockchain.com hardwallet, lockbox which lookike a ledger nano.
https://www.blockchain.com/lockbox


Actually this is a ledger nano s with reduced functionality (reduced to only 3 coins) paired together with the fact that it can only be used with blockchain.com's web interface.


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February 09, 2019, 04:31:19 AM
 #4

There is also KeepKey and CoboVault. Still, not as popular as Ledger and Trezor though.

I still think Trezor & Ledger is going to dominate hardware wallet market for the next few months, or maybe years.

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February 09, 2019, 07:15:47 AM
 #5

There was that wallet McAfee was boasting as unhackable.
After the hack (real or not) I've seen no news on it.

However. If a wallet is good, cheap and well advertised, it will be bought.
I guess that most of the new wallets don't meet all 3 conditions. (CoboValut 479$, KeepKey 129$, Coinvest 179-199$ are not a great deal)

I bought not long ago a Ledger myself. Not because I'd have so much Bitcoin and not because it's the best hardware in town.
It's because it's good enough, it was not too expensive (40% off) and I wanted to have it for tests now and then.

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February 09, 2019, 09:26:57 AM
 #6

Oh yeah, McAfee's Bitfi wallet, I had kind of forgotten about that. Even Google doesn't really show any news on it since last August when the "unhackable" wallet was repeatedly hacked. Calling it a hardware wallet was a bit of a disservice to actual hardware wallets - it was a brain wallet.

Still, any new hardware wallet to the market now has a large hurdle to overcome. Trezor and Ledger have been around for years now and have repeatedly been shown to be very secure - yes, some theoretical vectors of attack exist, but they are so incredibly unlikely as to be essentially negligible for the vast majority of users. Any brand new wallet on the market initially only has the manufacturer's assurance that they are secure. I certainly wouldn't be buying any new hardware wallet until it had been on the market for at least 6 months and had been repeatedly tested by the community.

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February 09, 2019, 11:37:04 PM
Merited by HCP (2), ETFbitcoin (1)
 #7

Actuually, there are quite many small players in hardware wallets market - Keepkey, Bitbox, OpenDime, Coolwallet, Secalot, Ellipal, Archos Safe-T, Bitlox and maybe few more but that's all that I found on Google in few minutes. But all of them are struggling to get at least minimal part of market. Some of these wallets looks good to use, others no. Probably many people haven't even heard these names. And I'm sceptical about these new wallets. Maybe it will have good features and etc, but I don't believe that they will get noticeable share of market. When there is Ledger and Trezor it's almost impossible for new players to enter into market. People just don't see reasons to look for alternatives when Trezor and Ledger works well and already earned trust. While some people are afraid to buy less known wallets because of security concerns.
There is also not enough information about new or less known wallets. When you're looking for hardware wallets, Ledger and Trezor is the first results that you get and people aren't trying to dig deeper. It's not that easy to find reviews about alternative wallets.
Another aspect - main players aren't sitting in one place. They are releasing new products like Trezor T or Nano X with new features and improvements.




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February 10, 2019, 02:26:45 AM
 #8

Another aspect - main players aren't sitting in one place. They are releasing new products like Trezor T or Nano X with new features and improvements.
And higher prices Tongue


While some people are afraid to buy less known wallets because of security concerns.
There is also not enough information about new or less known wallets. When you're looking for hardware wallets, Ledger and Trezor is the first results that you get and people aren't trying to dig deeper. It's not that easy to find reviews about alternative wallets.
Given the "paranoia" levels among crypto enthusiasts... it will indeed be difficult for newcomers in the hardware wallet space. You'd need to open source everything and be very open about all aspects of your device to try and build the trust.

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February 10, 2019, 01:16:01 PM
 #9

The same reason BTC remains up top applies to hardware wallets too.

You want a product with the most eyes watching it and an extensive track record to delve into when deciding whether to trust it or not.

Considering the lack of competence that's rampant out there, let alone malevolence, why would anyone take the risk?

I don't like the way Ledger operate very much so I'm sticking with Trezor until the end.

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February 10, 2019, 03:05:44 PM
 #10

There was that wallet McAfee was boasting as unhackable.
After the hack (real or not) I've seen no news on it.

However. If a wallet is good, cheap and well advertised, it will be bought.
I guess that most of the new wallets don't meet all 3 conditions. (CoboValut 479$, KeepKey 129$, Coinvest 179-199$ are not a great deal)

I bought not long ago a Ledger myself. Not because I'd have so much Bitcoin and not because it's the best hardware in town.
It's because it's good enough, it was not too expensive (40% off) and I wanted to have it for tests now and then.

Ledger nano S played it really smart. They are clearly focusing on accumulating more bitcoins by making sales when the price is low.

I checked Cobo Vault, It's made to be waterproof, impact-resistant etc. so I understand where the price is coming. I also watched their video, it honestly feels like they are actors and not the actual developers, not even blinking.

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February 10, 2019, 06:02:01 PM
 #11

And higher prices Tongue
It's true, but these new wallets mentioned in this thread also aren't cheaper. But I think it's normal thing that prices are going up with new models released. It means that there are big demand for hardware wallets and people are buying it with higher prices. Otherwise  they would be forced to reduce prices. It's a bit similar to smartphone market - each Samsung or iPhone flagship costs more than previous model and people still buying it. For example iPhone 8 was priced at $700, while iPhone X already costs $1000 approximately and people are still buying it.

Given the "paranoia" levels among crypto enthusiasts... it will indeed be difficult for newcomers in the hardware wallet space. You'd need to open source everything and be very open about all aspects of your device to try and build the trust.
Exactly, It's difficult for new players to become visible, but maybe they aren't doing their best to promote their product. Ibarely can see their ads on forums, crypto related websites, social media. So, it's normal that people are afraid to buy unknown wallets due to lack of information and reviews. And actually, it's good that people are careful when choosing hardware wallet.




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February 10, 2019, 08:36:05 PM
 #12

I checked Cobo Vault, It's made to be waterproof, impact-resistant etc. so I understand where the price is coming.
$500 is steep, even for that. If you are that worried about taking your hardware wallet out and dropping it or spilling water on it, then for around 10% of that price you could buy a second Ledger Nano S, duplicate your wallet on to it and then leave it at home.

I also don't understand why they've bothered to go to the lengths to give it MIL-STD-810G certification. Basically this ensures the wallet will continue to work in stressful environments - at extremes of temperature, humidity, altitude, etc. However, given that the wallet is completely airgapped and needs you to scan a QR code on your phone to broadcast any transaction, and the vast majority of phones do not have this certification and will have stopped working long ago, I really don't see the point.

The whole thing seems over-engineered and over-priced to me.

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February 11, 2019, 09:08:54 AM
Last edit: February 14, 2019, 07:25:23 AM by NeuroticFish
 #13

Ledger nano S played it really smart. They are clearly focusing on accumulating more bitcoins by making sales when the price is low.

Iirc the Bitcoin payments go through BitPay and that means there's a big chance they receive fiat. Of course, they can invest into Bitcoin while is low, but on the other hand keeping a high price when Bitcoin is low (as the competition does) is not a great business. Probably when Bitcoin will go very high again, the sales will be great for all hardware wallet makers.


I checked Cobo Vault, It's made to be waterproof, impact-resistant etc. so I understand where the price is coming. I also watched their video, it honestly feels like they are actors and not the actual developers, not even blinking.

It's much more normal to make a commercial with actors. I don't blame them for that.
And yes, the extra features means extra costs and extra price. But it also means they target only a certain niche of the market.


I mean, for example I know that there are military grade UBS dives with extra durability and so on. However, by a large margin, most people will buy normal USB.
People would probably buy more easily hardware wallets with extra features in a rising market, which we don't have right now.



Edit: I've just seen this in the news, a new hardware wallet is being launched. Price: 29$ (!). Just it doesn't work without a smartphone (and I'm not convinced that's safe enough) https://www.coindesk.com/status-launches-a-tap-to-pay-crypto-hardware-wallet

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February 20, 2019, 02:09:10 AM
 #14

I'm slightly quite late to this topic but I'm going to chime in.

I really don't see another brand dethroning Ledger and Trezor anytime soon. My reasons:

1. Ledger and Trezor's has the highest reputation among the hardware wallet industry right now, reputation being a huge factor when looking for a hardware to store your coins.
2. The Ledger Nano X looks great(though the bluetooth functionality part is debatable).
3. Most(if not all) the sort of "newer" hardware wallets has features that are gimmicky and really unnecessary in my opinion.

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February 20, 2019, 05:01:29 AM
 #15

This statement alone tells me personally to keep far away from this wallet.
If they mix up hashing with encryption, how are they supposed to build a secure hardware wallet ?

Something about that whole website looks scammy.  I'm glad you pointed that out, I don't have the technical knowledge to pick up on that.

I bought a keepkey to start, no regrets really, but I don't use it anymore.  I actually really like the simple design, and the display is practical.  The chrome plug in works fine, has decent UI, and it's integrated with ShapeShift exchange.  You can set up many different accounts, and has a few altcoins it supports.  It can also be accessed with Electrum.  However, I found it buggy to use.  A couple of times it displayed a zero balance for several minutes after sending.  It did the same thing one time while I was using Electrum.  I knew I still had the coins because my watch-only Electrum copy showed the transactions the way they should have been.


I recently bought a Trezor Model T, and I love it.  It works great, P2SH segwit addresses, the touch screen is cleanly integrated and the size is good.  I was hopeful that I could use it with the Monero official wallet, but no integration yet.

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February 20, 2019, 07:18:10 AM
 #16

I have
Ledger Nano S
Trezor One
Trezor Model T
Hd-Kasse
Keepkey
Bitbox

I made review all of them. Here you can fin that I translated
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5039577.msg46259753#msg46259753

Soon I will make a Ledger Nano X and Bitci hardware wallets.
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March 23, 2019, 03:44:05 AM
 #17

I have
Ledger Nano S
Trezor One
Trezor Model T
Hd-Kasse
Keepkey
Bitbox

I made review all of them. Here you can fin that I translated
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5039577.msg46259753#msg46259753

Soon I will make a Ledger Nano X and Bitci hardware wallets.

Hi. Which of this hardware wallets you use more often, for daily use? And you had any problems with any of it after you buy it, like physical problems, not turn on?

I also see a new kind of hardware wallet, looks like a Sd card or SIM

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March 26, 2019, 03:52:39 AM
 #18

I honestly would stay away from other hardware wallets for now. Ledger and Trezor are just significantly more reputable to take a risk on trying others.

More competition is good though.

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March 26, 2019, 07:53:43 AM
 #19

I honestly would stay away from other hardware wallets for now. Ledger and Trezor are just significantly more reputable to take a risk on trying others.

More competition is good though.
More competition is good but due to the number of hackings and untrusted wallets incidents of hacking, we'd better rely to the biggest players in the market of hardware wallets and these two are the leading, Ledger wallet and Trezor.

Most of us has trust issues especially with the aspiring and new players in the world of hardware wallets. We just can't trust them completely unless they have been reliable and verified by the community as one of the trustworthy hardware wallets that we can use.

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[/]
stanlee2018
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March 27, 2019, 03:33:53 AM
 #20

I can imagine there will be more and more companies bring their cold wallet in the market. I myself have some knowledge about the hardware wallet.
1, The hardware wallet must be open-source.
2, It must have a screen to show us the tx information in case it be replaced by hackers.
3, It can not be based on an Android system, because it will bring more uncertain attacks that relate to Android itself.
4, It is better it can support multisig.

Now only three wallets can do all the things; They are
Trezor: https://trezor.io
BITHD: http://bithd.com
Ledger: https://www.ledger.com
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