For Theymos

[Rambotnic]

Hello and first i would like to say that i know posting this topic in first place is useless and won't change anything, but believe me, i talk from many people on this forum, and i will try to use facts only and not empty words.

I will try to manage the topic in few parts, because it will be long one.

1). Lets start with the problem with the "DefaultTrust" system.
We all know that most of the "DefaultTrust" members have their own standard.
They are couple of people who run the "trust" score by their own discretion and not based on the "non official bitcointalk rules"
It is sad that the very first bitcoin forum created by Satoshi Nakamoto itself, have no official rules after 10 years of existing in first place.
If Satoshi were still active, and watch what is going on in his forum, this would never happened...
Couple of people running this forum (yes they running it not you) by teams.
Teams that manipulate, abuse and ruin this forum with fake/false arguments, most of them cleaning their actions with "funny" utterances which of course are supported with laugh from the other "DefaultTrust" members.
This scheme is old and it is more obvious for those who don't have their eyes closed.
Every single member in this forum know about those existing teams who abuse and manipulate the trust score, ruining the whole market and everything in this forum.
Every single person can see after the first member of the team post somewhere, the others follow them strictly by just spreading the word of the first.
They attack the OP not only with abusive and false trust abuse but also with arrogant arguments based on no proofs ignoring the statements which are proof based.
Everyone know that if TMAN, owlcatz or Lauda post somewhere, no matter which one will be the first poster, others are coming in less than a day to support each other, and no matter the facts they stay behind the first poster of the team.
Do not get me wrong, i am pretty sure all of those "DefaultTrust" members have done a lot for the community, but based on the statistic and the facts for last 12 months, they have done for this forum only bad things.
We can continue with the other "team" of "DefaultTrust" abusers.
They are know and also their posts are coming right after the very first one and i am talking about the marlboroza, The Pharmacist and LoyceV.
I don't really like to commend the bad things most of them doing, but 99.99% of the forum know each of those "DefaultTrust" members reacts and false arguments.
As the first team, this team also running pretty well their circle of support, fabricating false arguments without proofs and abusing the trust system.

Sadly the facts and the statistic show that the "DefaultTrust" members have done nothing but bad things in the last 12 months.
I bet you will trying to say that's not true, but everything they done in the last year were only supported by group of members who control the "Merit circle" and not the normal and average bitcointalk member.
They using those "powers" to censorship, manipulate the trust system and also abusing the "Merit" system.
This courage the account sales in this forum, no matter sales are not forbidden (but they still tag it and by that they break the bitcointalk rules but no one care).

Lets see the facts about the trust abuse based on false arguments without single proof (I will just add few, they are many):
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5103988.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5105765.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5105875.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5098315.0

And many many more.
All of the DT members do their "job" based in their own view, giving this forum nothing but "Mafia" management.

I can continue with this, but it will take so much space and information which already everyone know.

2) Merit
The whole idea of Merit system is more than absurd.
You will ask why?
Take a look at the huge "Merit circle"...
Most of the "Merit" in this forum is controlled by very few persons who circle it.
Many very new members are not familiar with it, don't know how to earn it, and if the "Mafia" do not accept their posts as "Good", "Useful" and so, they never rank up.
The same people decide what is good and what is not for someone to rank up based in their own views not letting competition or anyone who have different view point.
The whole idea of creating this forum from Satoshi is dead and the way people are forced to use the forum doing it.
All new members and those who already using the forum from some time, are forced to lick their asses, watch what they write because if they do not meet the criteria of the "Mafia" team who control the merits and the trust system, they will be out.
Is that what Satoshi really wanted from this forum ?
Is that what Satoshi were giving as idea for the normal bitcoin user and bitcointalk user?
I don't think so...
I can't really touch all the problems for the normal average bitcointalk user but even if i had the space and time to talk about it, it won't be read and handled properly.
Don't get me wrong, by "handled properly" doesn't mean handled by my view point by the view point of EVERYONE and not couple of people in this forum.

3) Moderators
Since ages this forum sections are dying from spam, and from months the marketplaces dying from the same reason.
Many and important sections which people were super active months ago are dying from spam and not moderated topics.
And i am talking about the marketplaces.
The bitcoin marketplaces (currency,digital goods,hardware) and the altcoin marketplaces.
They are leaved to die, people are not so active on them anymore because of the reasons above and also the bad moderation of the forum.
The post reports are handled super poorly, super slow and based on opinion but not rules (because we still don't have rules).

I will reserve a space to add more in thru this problems and lock this thread because it is useless to read the "Mafia" team posts, but at least this can be read by you, our admin.
Everything should be consider and everything should be voted!
If something will cost you money to do, but everyone want it - we will donate to help our forum to be better place.

Problems that can be solved:

1.Removing the Merit system because it is not fair.
It is not fair for everyone and the average new member.
"Merit Circle" Mafia should not decide who will rank up and who not.
Official rules should replace the judgement which post is useless, spam and so, and it will be removed from Moderator.

2.Removing "DefaultTrust" powers.
Yes that's right, this abuse should have his end as it has begin.
We don't need abused false and fake opinions by "Mafia" team.
If someone needs feedback, it can be used like everywhere else, with non-moderated thread used to collect "Vouches"
Those "Vouches" should be proof based so the "feedback" cannot be manipulated.
There is no need of "Positive" and "Negative" feedback on profile.
Everyone who wants to run "business" on this forum, should be able to do it free, without breaking the rules, and if he want to become trusted, that should not dependent from "Team" which decide who will be and who won't be trusted in this forum.
Trust should be based in feedback.
Take a look how marketplace forums run since 10-15 years such as sythe,powerbot and many many more.

3.Official rules.
Finally we need official rules (Well at least after 10 years it is time Moderators to follow official rules but not take decisions by their own).
There should be Official rules that Moderators should follow strictly.
Rules that people should respect and follow.
Most of the "Not Official" rules being passed and not followed not only by the Moderators but the "Mafia" team who manipulate the trust system and Merit.
If something is allowed such as "Account sales" it should not been abused and tolerated.
If that kind of sales got forbidden, then Moderators should take care of it.

4. More moderation.
Yes this forum needs more moderation and more Moderators with free time to do it.
Scams in this forum should be moderated and proven scammers should be banned.
By "Proven scammers" i underline scam reports with valid and proper evidences.
Those "Proper evidences" should not be considered as such based on free notepad story's, but clearly matching who is talking with who, matching his contact details and the scam itself.
Samples can be taken from different forums how they moderate the scam reports.
Moderation of scams should be punished with ban by the Moderators.


And not in last place i would like to say few words.
Theymos, we need to you more than ever, and the forum statistics showing that.
People leaving this forum, people not coming often in this forum, people being abused, threatened and forced to follow group of people and their own "game".
That wasn't Satoshi idea, that wasn't the forum idea in first place.
I know you have the powers to make the things better for everyone.
The average new and normal member needs his favorite bitcoin forum back.
And we need it ASAP.
This should be place for people!
This should be place for everyone!
For knowledge, information, marketplace and communication.
Not place where people abusing each other, where people don't have official rules, where people being forced to do something, or they will be abused with false abusive trust score ratings.
This forum crying for proper moderation and end of the "Mafia" era.

This thread is now not locked so every single retard who abuse his DT powers and lie can post here.

[1714025459]

1714025459

[Lauda]

-snip-
This forum crying for proper moderation and end of the "Mafia" era.

What kind of mafia counters its own ratings?

/thread

[LFC_Bitcoin]

You lot are so annoying, have you seriously not got anything better to do than come on btctalk.org & cry on Meta every day about DefaultFuckingTrust?

What difference does it make to your life that a few people gave you negative trust?

Were you a massive trader on here & those neg trusts have ruined your life so you can’t put food on the table any more?

It’s getting ridiculous now, Meta is absolutely full of window lickers complaining about the DT. If it hasn’t really negatively affected your life then what is the point?

[Lauda]

It’s getting ridiculous now, Meta is absolutely full of window lickers complaining about the DT.

Are you TMAN's alt?

What difference does it make to your life that a few people gave you negative trust?

I'm amazed how some go crazy about something relatively insignificant (especially in this version of the trust-system). Even if a rating in unjust, you need to remain sane. Consistently thinking about something negative like that is going to have a very negative effect on your life.

[Rambotnic]

You lot are so annoying, have you seriously not got anything better to do than come on btctalk.org & cry on Meta every day about DefaultFuckingTrust?

What difference does it make to your life that a few people gave you negative trust?

Were you a massive trader on here & those neg trusts have ruined your life so you can’t put food on the table any more?

It’s getting ridiculous now, Meta is absolutely full of window lickers complaining about the DT. If it hasn’t really negatively affected your life then what is the point?

Who the fuck are you son ?
And why the fuck any forum will give negatively affect my real life ?
I can buy account for less than 5 mins, which is allowed by the rules, but not allowed by the DT Mafia ?
There is no rules for them i guess.
I can't put food in my table ? Thanks god you will not be alive to see that even if someday happens
That's not the point

[LFC_Bitcoin]

It’s getting ridiculous now, Meta is absolutely full of window lickers complaining about the DT.

Are you TMAN's alt?

What difference does it make to your life that a few people gave you negative trust?

I'm amazed how some go crazy about something relatively insignificant (especially in this version of the trust-system). Even if a rating in unjust, you need to remain sane. Consistently thinking about something negative like that is going to have a very negative effect on your life.

I’m not TMAN’s alt, no
Been here since 2014, only recently started venturing into & getting involved in Meta. This whole ‘woe is me’ gang growing, constantly complaining about DT is pathetic though.



@Rambotnic - The point I’m trying to make is why are you so upset about a couple of red tags? Does it really bother you that much?

[Lauda]

-snip-
You prove it after i contacted you about removing the negative feedback from my profile, then i ask if you can contact owlcatz to do the same.
Just like your little dogs, everyone of your team removed the negative feedback from my profile.

Are you really going to stoop this low? To the the point that you are trying to attack me for asking others to give you a second chance? You are an disgusting disgrace to the human race. You should really be ashamed of yourself, and I have only myself to blame for making the mistake of giving you another chance..

[cryptohunter]

You lot are so annoying, have you seriously not got anything better to do than come on btctalk.org & cry on Meta every day about DefaultFuckingTrust?

What difference does it make to your life that a few people gave you negative trust?

Were you a massive trader on here & those neg trusts have ruined your life so you can’t put food on the table any more?

It’s getting ridiculous now, Meta is absolutely full of window lickers complaining about the DT. If it hasn’t really negatively affected your life then what is the point?

Says the person spamming his sig away.

Crying??... watch this fool cry if he has to post without a sig.  Get him some red paint just for presenting facts and see how he sings a different tune.

Glad to see more persons waking up here.

More red pills anyone??

[yesyes18]

Well I think you have a nice argument somehow but let's not forget that ideally this is how the world is and so we should embrace it. Fact is that, anything that relies on human surveillance is subject to human personal discretion and influence.

Honestly speaking, you can't say that we should take away certain things from this forum and for that matter, Trust and Merit system. You can compare this forum to other forums and you'll know why these systems were implemented. The forum was better at first without these and as it grew, bad members also grew and there was the need for these.

We should note that every community should be bounded by certain regulations else chaos will spread everywhere. There's not other way this could be done without involving human discretion. The automatic algorithmic/script method failed to tackle certain issues and that was why these systems were brought up.

We can debate on these for God knows how long but we shouldn't forget that it has good sides as well. So what i can say is that, always try to stay safe and be good with all leaders/moderators here and you'll be good to go. There are high rank members who have been here for long, were never awarded any of this power but they're still good to go. So stay safe buddy.

[Rambotnic]

It’s getting ridiculous now, Meta is absolutely full of window lickers complaining about the DT.

Are you TMAN's alt?

What difference does it make to your life that a few people gave you negative trust?

I'm amazed how some go crazy about something relatively insignificant (especially in this version of the trust-system). Even if a rating in unjust, you need to remain sane. Consistently thinking about something negative like that is going to have a very negative effect on your life.

I’m not TMAN’s alt, no
Been here since 2014, only recently started venturing into & getting involved in Meta. This whole ‘woe is me’ gang growing, constantly complaining about DT is pathetic though.



@Rambotnic - The point I’m trying to make is why are you so upset about a couple of red tags? Does it really bother you that much?

Dude, i am not talking about my negs, i am talking about much bigger than me and you?
Did you even read the thread?
Its about the abusive ways that people making this forum trash?
Isn't the meta to talk about the forum but not people ?
Should i give a fuck about my negative reputation consider i always use escrow? How do you think ? I don't give a zero fuck.
But why it should be fake and abused?

Edit: Sorry Lauda... This thread isn't about you, its about the abused trust system, you are just part of it.

[TECSHARE]

You lot are so annoying, have you seriously not got anything better to do than come on btctalk.org & cry on Meta every day about DefaultFuckingTrust?

What difference does it make to your life that a few people gave you negative trust?

Were you a massive trader on here & those neg trusts have ruined your life so you can’t put food on the table any more?

It’s getting ridiculous now, Meta is absolutely full of window lickers complaining about the DT. If it hasn’t really negatively affected your life then what is the point?

This kind of attitude is what makes credible members realize how little accountability those in power on the DT actually have. This is standard operating procedure any time anyone makes any complaint. Call them a troll, try to marginalize them with insults and saying shit like no one cares.  Then the boat of socks comes in to slide the topic with drama until anything rational is drown out. People see it, they just don't ever get involved so they don't themselves become targets. This shit is negatively effecting the function of the forum regardless of your ignorant and dismissive attitude.

[ac2eugenio]

You lot are so annoying, have you seriously not got anything better to do than come on btctalk.org & cry on Meta every day about DefaultFuckingTrust?

What difference does it make to your life that a few people gave you negative trust?

Were you a massive trader on here & those neg trusts have ruined your life so you can’t put food on the table any more?

It’s getting ridiculous now, Meta is absolutely full of window lickers complaining about the DT. If it hasn’t really negatively affected your life then what is the point?

Says the person spamming his sig away.

Crying??... watch this fool cry if he has to post without a sig.  Get him some red paint for presenting facts and see how he sings a different tune.

Glad to see more persons waking up here.

More red pills anyone??

Im going to wait someone to call the OP as "trolling" the abuses are clearly noticed by theymos we should wait for him to take actions.I say lets have a forum poll on which of these DT member deserves to be blacklisted or leave their positions.

[Rambotnic]

Well I think you have a nice argument somehow but let's not forget that ideally this is how the world is and so we should embrace it. Fact is that, anything that relies on human surveillance is subject to human personal discretion and influence.

Honestly speaking, you can't say that we should take away certain things from this forum ajd for that matter, Trust and Merit system. You can compare this forum to other forums and you'll known why these systems were implemented. The forum was better at first without these and as it grew, bad members also grew and there was the need for this.

We should note that every community should be bounded by certain regulations else chaos will spread everywhere. There's not other way this could be done without involving human discretion. The automatic algorithmic/script method failed to tackle certain issues and that was why these systems were brought up.

We can debate on these for God knows how long but we shouldn't forget that it has good sides as well. So what i cab say is that, always try to stay safe and be good with all leaders/moderators here and you'll be good to go. There are high rank members who have beeb here for long, were never awarded any of this power but they're still good to go. So stay safe buddy.

Actually i can't agree with you.
We can always watch and learn from different forums that do not allow anyone to abuse anything.
People using feedback as vouches with proven trades.
And if someone would like to point out a scammer, after a single negative feedback (proven scamming) he should be banned.
Posts like "I do not trust this window licker" and such should not make someone legit profile to look like a scamming one.
Isn't the idea of the feedback positive or negative to be based on some trade or scam ?
Why should it be abusive ?
Why would we need trust system that everyone can abused ? Especially by group of members who can act like team ?
There is 10+ "blackmarkets" or "forums" for digital goods or whatever you like to call it that using proper and legit trust system that cannot be abused.

[LFC_Bitcoin]

You lot are so annoying, have you seriously not got anything better to do than come on btctalk.org & cry on Meta every day about DefaultFuckingTrust?

What difference does it make to your life that a few people gave you negative trust?

Were you a massive trader on here & those neg trusts have ruined your life so you can’t put food on the table any more?

It’s getting ridiculous now, Meta is absolutely full of window lickers complaining about the DT. If it hasn’t really negatively affected your life then what is the point?

Says the person spamming his sig away.

Crying... watch this fool cry if he has to post without a sig.  Get him some red paint for presenting facts and see how he sings a different tune.

Glad to see more persons waking up here.

More red pills anyone???  see lauda.

I have plenty of bitcoin’s thanks, started buying in 2014 & have been buying ever since. I have a nice HODL pile which I think will set myself & future family generations up financially forever after the next halving (fingers crossed). What has wearing a sig got to do with anything? I enjoy posting here, I may as well get paid for it but if you must know I only have to do 25 posts per week to get the full payment (which is a measly 0.02BTC per week) but I do a lot more because I simply enjoy this place?

Are you jealous because you can’t get in any campaign because of your red trust?

I suppose nobody would want to pay to see you advertise them only in Meta, crying like a little girl about your trust rating.

You must be autistic or some shit, you’re on here all day, every day moaning about DT & trust, it’s embarrassing.

[Rambotnic]

Lets not talk about people with names like Lauda, Tman or anyone else, lets talk about the problem of the trust system and the way it is abused.
It is more than obvious who abusing the trust system, but the point here is why there should be any system that can be and it is abused?
I can quote and show at least 100 proofs that how this trust system is manipulated, abused and not used properly and that's allowed, but buying and selling accounts which is also allowed by the rules gives you red tag just because some people don't see that as ethical or those acts can bring scams ?

[Lauda]

-snip-
I can quote and show at least 100 proofs that how this trust system is manipulated, abused and not used properly and that's allowed, but buying and selling accounts which is also allowed by the rules gives you red tag just because some people don't see that as ethical or those acts can bring scams ?

There are almost no rules to how it can be used except minor guidelines from theymos. If you do not understand this, then you need to stop your rant and lock this thread.

[Rambotnic]

-snip-
I can quote and show at least 100 proofs that how this trust system is manipulated, abused and not used properly and that's allowed, but buying and selling accounts which is also allowed by the rules gives you red tag just because some people don't see that as ethical or those acts can bring scams ?

There are almost no rules to how it can be used except minor guidelines from theymos. If you do not understand this, then you need to stop your rant and lock this thread.

I don't like to lock this thread, i would like to see other people opinions.
You also feel how abusive the trust system is months ago, are you going to deny the facts or what?
We don't need minor guidelines.
It is 2019 and this forum exists since almost 10 years.
We need official rules, we need trust system that cannot be abused.
We need moderated scam section that will bring ban to each proven scammer, and we don't need group of people to circle merit and abuse the trust system.
Lauda, you were abused by the trust system for long long time, don't even try to deny the trust system is abused.
Do not deny that many DT members lying at their reasons for posting negative feedback.
Even if i waste 3 hours of my time to get 100+ proofs of my words sadly that won't change a thing, but we all know what am i talking about.

[cryptohunter]

You lot are so annoying, have you seriously not got anything better to do than come on btctalk.org & cry on Meta every day about DefaultFuckingTrust?

What difference does it make to your life that a few people gave you negative trust?

Were you a massive trader on here & those neg trusts have ruined your life so you can’t put food on the table any more?

It’s getting ridiculous now, Meta is absolutely full of window lickers complaining about the DT. If it hasn’t really negatively affected your life then what is the point?

Says the person spamming his sig away.

Crying... watch this fool cry if he has to post without a sig.  Get him some red paint for presenting facts and see how he sings a different tune.

Glad to see more persons waking up here.

More red pills anyone???  see lauda.

I have plenty of bitcoin’s thanks, started buying in 2014 & have been buying ever since. I have a nice HODL pile which I think will set myself & future family generations up financially forever after the next halving (fingers crossed). What has wearing a sig got to do with anything? I enjoy posting here, I may as well get paid for it but if you must know I only have to do 25 posts per week to get the full payment (which is a measly 0.02BTC per week) but I do a lot more because I simply enjoy this place?

Are you jealous because you can’t get in any campaign because of your red trust?

I suppose nobody would want to pay to see you advertise them only in Meta, crying like a little girl about your trust rating.

You must be autistic or some shit, you’re on here all day, every day moaning about DT & trust, it’s embarrassing.

Oh really?? yeah cos those that are wealthy need to spam their sigs.

Please you broke bum stop lying. You don't have any bitcoin let's be honest for once.

You are laughable. Take that sig off and remain silent coward.

Please point me to any significant thought provoking contribution you ever made here so I can have more entertainment.

Also please relate to me the great achievements you have made here and how things would be any different if you have never joined this board.  That won't take you long I am sure.

[Lauda]

We need official rules, we need trust system that cannot be abused.

This would destroy the system and render it useless.

We need moderated scam section that will bring ban to each proven scammer, and we don't need group of people to circle merit and abuse the trust system.

Never gonna happen with a liberal in charge IMO.

Lauda, you were abused by the trust system for long long time, don't even try to deny the trust system is abused.
Do not deny that many DT members lying at their reasons for posting negative feedback.
Even if i waste 3 hours of my time to get 100+ proofs of my words sadly that won't change a thing, but we all know what am i talking about.

Of course it is abused to a certain extent at every level, it always was (even before I had anything to do with DT). Theymoses responses or lack thereof in certain cases made it clear that he is very unlikely to response to abuse (e.g. kick the now inactive and useless Tomatocage out). However, a lot of the claimed abuse isn't actually abuse and thus people are trying to exaggarate the problem. Every system will get abused; as long as the amount of abuse remains within acceptable amounts that is okay.

[LFC_Bitcoin]

You lot are so annoying, have you seriously not got anything better to do than come on btctalk.org & cry on Meta every day about DefaultFuckingTrust?

What difference does it make to your life that a few people gave you negative trust?

Were you a massive trader on here & those neg trusts have ruined your life so you can’t put food on the table any more?

It’s getting ridiculous now, Meta is absolutely full of window lickers complaining about the DT. If it hasn’t really negatively affected your life then what is the point?

Says the person spamming his sig away.

Crying... watch this fool cry if he has to post without a sig.  Get him some red paint for presenting facts and see how he sings a different tune.

Glad to see more persons waking up here.

More red pills anyone???  see lauda.

I have plenty of bitcoin’s thanks, started buying in 2014 & have been buying ever since. I have a nice HODL pile which I think will set myself & future family generations up financially forever after the next halving (fingers crossed). What has wearing a sig got to do with anything? I enjoy posting here, I may as well get paid for it but if you must know I only have to do 25 posts per week to get the full payment (which is a measly 0.02BTC per week) but I do a lot more because I simply enjoy this place?

Are you jealous because you can’t get in any campaign because of your red trust?

I suppose nobody would want to pay to see you advertise them only in Meta, crying like a little girl about your trust rating.

You must be autistic or some shit, you’re on here all day, every day moaning about DT & trust, it’s embarrassing.

Oh really?? yeah cos those that are wealthy need to spam their sigs.

Please you broke bum stop lying. You don't have any bitcoin let's be honest for once.

You are laughable. Take that sig off and remain silent coward.

Please point me to any significant thought provoking contribution you ever made here so I can have more entertainment.

Also please relate to me the great achievements you have made here and how things would be any different if you have never joined this board.  That won't take you long I am sure.

You’re just making yourself look stupid buddy, as usual. You’re like a running joke, everybody thinks you’re an idiot.

I haven’t made any great achievements here, I’m just a normal poster. It might be nice to read through Meta without seeing multiple threads started by yourself saying the same thing over & over again.

That thread I saw with loads of you banging on about who to distrust is like the Special Olympics.

Seriously I think you’d have a lot more fun here if you just dropped the moaning about the trust system.