Coinbase EU customers can now withdraw to their PayPal accounts

[LeGaulois]

EU and European Free Trade Association customers can now withdraw to their PayPal accounts

Last year we announced support for PayPal in the U.S., and today we’re expanding that support for PayPal withdrawals to all E.U. customers and customers in European Free Trade Association countries (Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway, and Switzerland)...

...As one of the world’s easiest and most widely-used payment platforms, adding PayPal as a withdrawal option for European customers offers another great option for withdrawing their funds.

To get started, sign in to Coinbase and link your PayPal account to your Coinbase account. Select your PayPal account as a payment option when withdrawing your cash balance to easily move your funds

https://blog.coinbase.com/eu-and-european-free-trade-association-customers-can-now-withdraw-to-their-paypal-accounts-d80767e13977

Few questions in my mind. (regarding regulations)
Paypal doesn't support cryptocurrencies basically, is it a sign Paypal is currently re-thinking about it?
Paypal isn't considered as a bank account in most countries worldwide. So no need to report it as a foreign account
So, if no report people can freely use Paypal to avoid 1) to report income related to crypto and so 2) paying the taxes.

Unless I missed something it seems to good to be true and a huge amount of people will simply use Paypal for 1) and 2)
Or Paypal is confident enough that Coinbase will give to any country requesting it, all information about their citizens (like The US asked once)

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[1Referee]

As far as I understand PayPal's terms, they still haven't changed anything about their terms concerning crypto currencies.

I remember having stated it last year somewhere, but the way I believe it works, is that you can only withdraw funds to PayPal that haven't been utilized yet. In other words, if you wire $4000 to Coinbase, buy 1BTC at $3600, you can withdraw max $400 back to PayPal. If you sell your 1BTC, you won't be able to withdraw these funds to your PayPal account.

In case I'm wrong, anyone please correct me.

[Lucius]

I check Coinbase site and all I can find about PayPal is this FAQ PayPal. There should be some limitation for withdraw as 1Referee say , otherwise this would be a pretty cheap and easy option to convert crypto to fiat and maybe for avoid to pay tax.

I think that only USA IRS has an insight into the PP accounts of its citizens, but other countries can not do that. I am not sure how this can work for few reasons, and one that scares me the most is PayPal stance toward cryptocurrency. I guess they will block any account which they consider to be suspicious (easy way to stay without money), and Coinbase will monitor all users who use PP for withdraw.

In case I'm wrong, anyone please correct me.

In case you are right, this way of withdrawing money does not make any sense.

[gentlemand]

As far as I understand PayPal's terms, they still haven't changed anything about their terms concerning crypto currencies.

I remember having stated it last year somewhere, but the way I believe it works, is that you can only withdraw funds to PayPal that haven't been utilized yet. In other words, if you wire $4000 to Coinbase, buy 1BTC at $3600, you can withdraw max $400 back to PayPal. If you sell your 1BTC, you won't be able to withdraw these funds to your PayPal account.

In case I'm wrong, anyone please correct me.

That sounds exceedingly strange to me. Why bother with the hassle of setting it up for such a narrow set of criteria? The only wording I can find at the upper level refers to withdrawing Coinbase balances, not their nature.

Paypal doesn't support cryptocurrencies basically, is it a sign Paypal is currently re-thinking about it?

Doubtful. I presume it's because Coinbase has proven that they have rigourous methods. It's the same with them getting banking in the UK. No exchange was able to keep a UK bank account until Coinbase came along. They'll have the weight and the backing to wangle one. Anyone else will still be told to bugger off.

However it looks like it's not a piece of piss for everyone - https://ambcrypto.com/coinbases-free-paypal-withdrawal-flagging-users-accounts-for-alleged-money-laundering/

[1Referee]

It's very weird for sure, but it seems actually the case.

https://support.coinbase.com/customer/portal/articles/2959952-paypal-faq

*Withdraw refers to a direct Fiat movement from a Fiat Wallet to an external source
*Sell refers to an indirect Fiat movement from a Crypto Wallet to Fiat then to an external source

People in the US, EU and the UK can't sell crypto to fiat and then withdraw through PayPal according to their faq. In other words, only fiat that didn't touch crypto can be withdrawn back to PayPal. Has not much to do with Coinbase, but more so PayPal's shitty terms.

[gentlemand]

It's very weird for sure, but it seems actually the case.

Going on that wording that indeed looks like the case. But I've never seen that caveat mentioned anywhere else by anyone before. Maybe it's some sort of literary kludge to make Paypal happy. I should test it out but have no desire to sell anything.

[bitmover]

I don't get how PayPal still exists. Well certainly it's good for making transactions that banks says you can't do (like bitcoin), but it is a very expensive service.

If PayPal accepts bitcoin, it may be PayPal's doom. However, it may also be the only way it could survive in the next years (if bitcoin become largely adopted)

[BitHodler]

https://support.coinbase.com/customer/portal/articles/2959952-paypal-faq

*Withdraw refers to a direct Fiat movement from a Fiat Wallet to an external source
*Sell refers to an indirect Fiat movement from a Crypto Wallet to Fiat then to an external source

People in the US, EU and the UK can't sell crypto to fiat and then withdraw through PayPal according to their faq. In other words, only fiat that didn't touch crypto can be withdrawn back to PayPal. Has not much to do with Coinbase, but more so PayPal's shitty terms.

It seems that Coinbase has lost its mind. I don't see the added benefit of allowing people to withdraw to PayPal like this. But then again, they have been doing more questionable things so far.

I seriously hope that Binance will surpass them in the coming years. Coinbase is the main player in the US market, but with time Binance will work its way up even in the US, and then it's no longer the main fiat hotspot.

Cashapp is working on going against Coinbase as well according to Jack Dorsey, so we'll see where it goes from here. Coinbase is just a crap coin pump scheme for the digital currency group....

[1Referee]

I don't get how PayPal still exists. Well certainly it's good for making transactions that banks says you can't do (like bitcoin), but it is a very expensive service.

If PayPal accepts bitcoin, it may be PayPal's doom. However, it may also be the only way it could survive in the next years (if bitcoin become largely adopted)

PayPal has wide level adoption, and has an extreme bias towards buyers in terms of favoring them when things don't go the way they should with transactions. It opened the door for scammers to charge back on merchants and people as well, but merchants list PayPal as option anyway, because getting rid of it means less potential income.

I don't see any benefit in PayPal accepting Bitcoin. They are way better off launching PayPal token within their centralized environment and still allow people to charge back.

[LeGaulois]

Paypal is still useful for buyers, I use it regularly, I don't care the fees since I don't pay them
Well, I too searched something about it on its FAQ but didn't find. Only the * but didn't read it carefully.
I was excited to see such news even if I am not a Coinbase fan. But it gives nothing special, I even wonder how's going to use it.

[LTU_btc]

I don't get how PayPal still exists. Well certainly it's good for making transactions that banks says you can't do (like bitcoin), but it is a very expensive service.

If PayPal accepts bitcoin, it may be PayPal's doom. However, it may also be the only way it could survive in the next years (if bitcoin become largely adopted)

It's nothing strange that PayPal still exists. I don't like them, but PayPal is a good thing when you're buying online, especially from less known websites. Reversible transactions gives good protection for buyers. If you didn't received goods, you can just make chargeback and they will return your money.
PayPal + Bitcoin - it looks like impossible combination for me, even if Bitcoin will become more popular. Bitcoin and PayPal is two different worlds. I don't think that Bitcoin can cause damage for PayPal business.

[bitmover]

Paypal is still useful for buyers, I use it regularly, I don't care the fees since I don't pay them

Of course you do pay for them. The customer always pays all fees and all taxes that go through the commercial chain.

If you pay 10, and the seller only receives 8, you paid 2 in fees. If there were no fees, you would pay only 8. The seller is not absorbing fees, he never do that, he always pass it to the buyer (whoever he is).

If you decide to resell it , you will sell for more than 10, not more than 8.

[milewilda]

I don't get how PayPal still exists. Well certainly it's good for making transactions that banks says you can't do (like bitcoin), but it is a very expensive service.

If PayPal accepts bitcoin, it may be PayPal's doom. However, it may also be the only way it could survive in the next years (if bitcoin become largely adopted)

It's nothing strange that PayPal still exists. I don't like them, but PayPal is a good thing when you're buying online, especially from less known websites. Reversible transactions gives good protection for buyers. If you didn't received goods, you can just make chargeback and they will return your money.
PayPal + Bitcoin - it looks like impossible combination for me, even if Bitcoin will become more popular. Bitcoin and PayPal is two different worlds. I don't think that Bitcoin can cause damage for PayPal business.

Paypal wont easily die since its already rooted for how many years when it comes to payment system. Bitcoin is on different field but i cant say that it wont affect PP, there would be still have some effect
but it wont enough for it to go down.

Of course you do pay for them. The customer always pays all fees and all taxes that go through the commercial chain.

Well said, buyer would always shoulder all the fees and it is already inclusive on the final amount to be paid.

[LeGaulois]

Paypal is still useful for buyers, I use it regularly, I don't care the fees since I don't pay them

Of course you do pay for them. The customer always pays all fees and all taxes that go through the commercial chain.

If you pay 10, and the seller only receives 8, you paid 2 in fees. If there were no fees, you would pay only 8. The seller is not absorbing fees, he never do that, he always pass it to the buyer (whoever he is).

If you decide to resell it , you will sell for more than 10, not more than 8.

No always true, in my case I pay the same price that if I buy in the physical shop. The seller is charged with the fees If I pay $10 the seller receives less. I don't even remember the last time I had to pay the fees to pay the order from a merchant website. I paid more fees to send money to people than to pay the orders.

[squatter]

Paypal is still useful for buyers, I use it regularly, I don't care the fees since I don't pay them

Of course you do pay for them. The customer always pays all fees and all taxes that go through the commercial chain.

If you pay 10, and the seller only receives 8, you paid 2 in fees. If there were no fees, you would pay only 8.

In theory, that's true. In practice, we pay the same price no matter what. I'm stuck paying $10 because other people are using credit cards, Paypal, etc. and the seller is charging me for it.

In this way, it's completely rational for everyone to keep using PayPal. Unless sellers offer us lower prices for using cheaper payment methods, we have no incentive to change anything.

[bitmover]

In theory, that's true. In practice, we pay the same price no matter what. I'm stuck paying $10 because other people are using credit cards, Paypal, etc. and the seller is charging me for it.

In this way, it's completely rational for everyone to keep using PayPal. Unless sellers offer us lower prices for using cheaper payment methods, we have no incentive to change anything.

That's the point. Everyone pays PayPal's fees. Merchants are not making a discount for PayPal's users.

That service is not common where I live, but I already noticed that people in other countries use it a lot.

[shield132]

I usually use paypal when I want to buy something online, so don't know well how things work but have some questions that comes to my mind from OP's post. When you receive money on paypal, you have to withdraw it to your card or bank account to get your money in your hands, so this way government will be able to ask you about sources of your money.
1Referee
Those terms and services from both company are against each other, so how can coinbase offer paypal withdraw?

[LeGaulois]

I usually use paypal when I want to buy something online, so don't know well how things work but have some questions that comes to my mind from OP's post. When you receive money on paypal, you have to withdraw it to your card or bank account to get your money in your hands, so this way government will be able to ask you about sources of your money.

Yes, and I can tell anything I want and say It's the money I earned by fucking the cougars here and there, I am a gigolo. If they say it's not true etc, then I will tell them, ok then give me a proof so, and if they give it I will say, see yourself you didn't need me to ask the source of my money you found it alone. Why waste my time?

On a serious note, Paypal isn't considered as a bank account, a government can see you received money from Paypal but can't know for what. (unless there is a serious investigation of course).

[nc50lc]

1Referee
Those terms and services from both company are against each other, so how can coinbase offer paypal withdraw?

Simple, everything's already "converted" into fiat before being able to withdraw to Paypal which already "seen" by the authorities.
Just stick to the news, they won't accept Bitcoins like Bitmover's what-if-scenario, just fiat (Cash).
A few simple answers to OP:

Few questions in my mind. (regarding regulations)
Paypal doesn't support cryptocurrencies basically, is it a sign Paypal is currently re-thinking about it?

Probably, no.
To me, they just wanted to expand their market by including Coinbase's users.

Paypal isn't considered as a bank account in most countries worldwide. So no need to report it as a foreign account
So, if no report people can freely use Paypal to avoid 1) to report income related to crypto and so 2) paying the taxes.

[1] But Coinbase is like a bank account that reports your activities (ehm, a payment processor/exchange with KYC), it's impossible to avoid since before it can be sold for fiat in order to withdraw to paypal, cryptos should be deposited to Coinbase first which could be a problem if the total deposited amount was high enough. Unless....
[2] If it's under 20k (annualy) and doesn't exceed the threshold, it wont be subjected to tax like most of its users.

[LeGaulois]

@nc50lc

Coinbase isn't a bank, nor a payment service. They don't have to report your activities (otherwise customers would need to provide their Taxes ID while joining). And I even remember (last year?) when The US asked to Coinbase to provide any information regarding its American customers, Coinbase refused to give (I don't know how this story ended then)

"[2] If it's under 20k (annualy) and..."
A Form 1099-K is for the US citizens mate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Form_1099-K