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Author Topic: How long until governments outlaw bitcoin usage?  (Read 14616 times)
abstraction
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March 29, 2011, 11:33:49 AM
 #21

“Attempts to undermine the legitimate currency of this country are simply a unique form of domestic terrorism.  While these forms of anti-government activities do not involve violence, they are every bit as insidious and represent a clear and present danger to the economic stability of this country.  We are determined to meet these threats through infiltration, disruption, and dismantling of organizations which seek to challenge the legitimacy of our democratic form of government.” Anne Tompkins, US Attorney

There you go. Infiltration, disruption & dismantling.

We should be worrying about psychological attacks as well as technological ones. Check out this.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-operation-social-networks

I think we would be fools to ignore this threat.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Dollar#Legal_issues

"Whoever, except as authorized by law, makes or utters or passes, or attempts to utter or pass, any coins of gold or silver or other metal, or alloys of metals, intended for use as current money, whether in the resemblance of coins of the United States or of foreign countries, or of original design, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both."


America would have to rewrite that law to go after BitCoin  Cool

Am I making this up?

They will rewrite it because that's what they do with history and nobody calls them on it (until recently) and nobody cares until it affects them. They will write some sort of law where they claim that bitcoin actually is metal because it exists on the internet (which they can easily own) and the internet is content delivered by metal to the end user in a lot of cases. They don't own light however. The Bitcoin protocol and the block chain history are pieces of abstract information which everyone can own because everyone can own their own thoughts (or they will soon need to learn how). I mean if I'm going to make this sound crazy, I might as well mention that they will try to control peoples' minds with the Siren calling Ulysses, that musical instrument in seward's folly with plenty of texas tea to run it. So how do you implement the Bitcoin idea without using metal somewhere? LIGHT! Find some sort of organic material that reacts to light by expanding and dark by closing in order to turn that into an inverter. Once you have a light inverter, you just need to design circuits using the top half CMOS logic gates. So, we need something to join two streams of light into one, something to split into many, and a gate that allows light to flow from the source to the drain when light is shined on the body. The first two can be done using a prism in opposite orientations. The last one is waiting for an organic chemist to discover and contribute to the Bitcoin community.

But all joking aside, I don't know. Later this year?
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sortedmush
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March 29, 2011, 11:55:44 AM
 #22

Bear in mind the US Govt invented both the internet (more anonymous/decentralized than AOL/Compuserve), and Tor. Governments are big and are full of people with differing priorities.

If most BitCoin usage is legal I think it'll be OK in the long run. This is why I wish we'd kick the people selling serial keys and the Silk Road guys out of the forum. Of course they can still do what they're doing, but there's no need to advertise them in the main forum.

Illegal where? Should we only do things that happen to be considered "legal" by all governments? How about we just mind our own business?

If someone's doing something that you personally consider to be wrong, get on your soap box and use logic reason and evidence to show why it's wrong. Don't try and alienate people who are trying to get on in the world, by referencing some written dos and donts you can't objectively explain.
nofuture
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March 29, 2011, 01:33:53 PM
 #23

Bear in mind the US Govt invented both the internet (more anonymous/decentralized than AOL/Compuserve), and Tor. Governments are big and are full of people with differing priorities.

If most BitCoin usage is legal I think it'll be OK in the long run. This is why I wish we'd kick the people selling serial keys and the Silk Road guys out of the forum. Of course they can still do what they're doing, but there's no need to advertise them in the main forum.

Illegal where? Should we only do things that happen to be considered "legal" by all governments? How about we just mind our own business?

If someone's doing something that you personally consider to be wrong, get on your soap box and use logic reason and evidence to show why it's wrong. Don't try and alienate people who are trying to get on in the world, by referencing some written dos and donts you can't objectively explain.


They'll outlaw it, but it's got to be a problem for them to worry about first. 


First they ignore you
Then they fight you...

We're still in the part of the "ignore you" phase.   Let's get BTC more popular together. 
fetokun
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March 29, 2011, 01:47:34 PM
 #24

Bear in mind the US Govt invented both the internet (more anonymous/decentralized than AOL/Compuserve), and Tor. Governments are big and are full of people with differing priorities.

If most BitCoin usage is legal I think it'll be OK in the long run. This is why I wish we'd kick the people selling serial keys and the Silk Road guys out of the forum. Of course they can still do what they're doing, but there's no need to advertise them in the main forum.

Illegal where? Should we only do things that happen to be considered "legal" by all governments? How about we just mind our own business?

If someone's doing something that you personally consider to be wrong, get on your soap box and use logic reason and evidence to show why it's wrong. Don't try and alienate people who are trying to get on in the world, by referencing some written dos and donts you can't objectively explain.


They'll outlaw it, but it's got to be a problem for them to worry about first. 


First they ignore you
Then they fight you...

We're still in the part of the "ignore you" phase.   Let's get BTC more popular together. 

That's what I think too
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March 29, 2011, 02:55:31 PM
 #25

If most BitCoin usage is legal I think it'll be OK in the long run. This is why I wish we'd kick the people selling serial keys and the Silk Road guys out of the forum. Of course they can still do what they're doing, but there's no need to advertise them in the main forum.

I'm reluctantly in favor of this sentiment.  The last thing we need is a DNS-mediated shutdown of the Bitcoin site.  We also need mirrors.

"A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history." --Gandhi
sortedmush
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March 29, 2011, 03:54:17 PM
 #26

This is like talking to a brick wall.

Look. If you convince the owner of the forum to ban all talk of free trade. The people who are on the same wavelength as me, will respect that we're unwelome guests on someone elses property. We will leave with no fuss.

What happens then? We start another forum and continue to advocate free trade and voluntary interaction in full view of the public. You're not going to stop people talking about all the wonderful possibilities the technology affords by encouraging a divide.

So .. Why can't we just reason things out ourselves? If you've got a problem with someones business practices, don't deal with them. If you've got good enough reasons not to deal with them, share those reasons with us. You might convince us that you're right.

Resorting to the word "illegal" doesn't work with people like me who reason from first principles. We've grown up and that mumbo jumbo just doesn't fly.
deadlizard
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March 29, 2011, 04:01:41 PM
 #27

Resorting to the word "illegal" doesn't work with people like me who reason from first principles. .
I hear that reasoning from first principles is illegal.  Angry

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fetokun
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March 29, 2011, 04:03:51 PM
 #28

This is like talking to a brick wall.

Look. If you convince the owner of the forum to ban all talk of free trade. The people who are on the same wavelength as me, will respect that we're unwelome guests on someone elses property. We will leave with no fuss.

What happens then? We start another forum and continue to advocate free trade and voluntary interaction in full view of the public. You're not going to stop people talking about all the wonderful possibilities the technology affords by encouraging a divide.

So .. Why can't we just reason things out ourselves? If you've got a problem with someones business practices, don't deal with them. If you've got good enough reasons not to deal with them, share those reasons with us. You might convince us that you're right.

Resorting to the word "illegal" doesn't work with people like me who reason from first principles. We've grown up and that mumbo jumbo just doesn't fly.

All he is proposing (and I don't know if I agree or not) is to ban some specific illegal things from the forum, but only because this forum is the official face of bitcoin to the world and they're arguing that some practices would be better be hidden.

Sounds reasonable to me.

To the main public there is a huge difference between finding topics about drug sales in the official forum and finding them in alternative websites. In one case it sounds like a deviation from a purpose, in the other it looks like an official endorsement to a criminal practice.
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March 29, 2011, 04:06:38 PM
 #29

Remember folks, it doesn't matter if we ban or censor "illegal stuff"...bitcoin will be used as it is intended to be used as well what it's not intended to be used.

sortedmush
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March 29, 2011, 04:15:52 PM
 #30

This is like talking to a brick wall.

Look. If you convince the owner of the forum to ban all talk of free trade. The people who are on the same wavelength as me, will respect that we're unwelome guests on someone elses property. We will leave with no fuss.

What happens then? We start another forum and continue to advocate free trade and voluntary interaction in full view of the public. You're not going to stop people talking about all the wonderful possibilities the technology affords by encouraging a divide.

So .. Why can't we just reason things out ourselves? If you've got a problem with someones business practices, don't deal with them. If you've got good enough reasons not to deal with them, share those reasons with us. You might convince us that you're right.

Resorting to the word "illegal" doesn't work with people like me who reason from first principles. We've grown up and that mumbo jumbo just doesn't fly.

All he is proposing (and I don't know if I agree or not) is to ban some specific illegal things from the forum, but only because this forum is the official face of bitcoin to the world and they're arguing that some practices would be better be hidden.

Sounds reasonable to me.

To the main public there is a huge difference between finding topics about drug sales in the official forum and finding them in alternative websites. In one case it sounds like a deviation from a purpose, in the other it looks like an official endorsement to a criminal practice.

Well if it happens, it happens.

I would have more respect for a community that can demonstrate through reason and evidence that a behaviour is unethical, as opposed to putting on the blinkers and pretending it doesn't exsist.

I hear that reasoning from first principles is illegal.  Angry

 Grin
Jered Kenna (TradeHill)
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March 29, 2011, 05:52:11 PM
 #31

I'm with all you guys but I agree with the "face of bitcoin" should be legal.
I have a good friend I talked to about  bitcoin for a while the other day and immediately after he went to this forum.

His response was "The first thing I saw was webpages with  drugs for sale".

Honestly it doesn't bother him that much but he doesn't want to be associated with it because of this.
I can guarantee that there are a lot of people that would say they don't want to be associated with drug sales on the internet.

Personally I don't have a problem with it, I wouldn't care if they gave reviews and sold them on the market place here but I think it's really bad for the image to put it out in front.

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March 30, 2011, 12:35:22 AM
 #32

It should only be a matter of months if the press gets hold of the fact that the entire bitcoin community supporting ponzi schemes. We would be way too easy a target.
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March 30, 2011, 02:23:12 AM
 #33

All of the confusion people encounter could be avoided if the owner of the bitcoin.org site provided a clear mission statement about the purpose of the site and how the owner intends to adhere to that mission statement. Everyone else just needs to make sure the owner does not stray from the mission statement.
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March 30, 2011, 02:30:12 AM
 #34

All of the confusion people encounter could be avoided if the owner of the bitcoin.org site provided a clear mission statement about the purpose of the site and how the owner intends to adhere to that mission statement. Everyone else just needs to make sure the owner does not stray from the mission statement.

Getting ahold of Satoshi would be a difficult thing to do.

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March 30, 2011, 02:36:51 AM
 #35

All of the confusion people encounter could be avoided if the owner of the bitcoin.org site provided a clear mission statement about the purpose of the site and how the owner intends to adhere to that mission statement. Everyone else just needs to make sure the owner does not stray from the mission statement.

Getting ahold of Satoshi would be a difficult thing to do.

I thought sirius runs it now, or maybe Gavin.
kiba
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March 30, 2011, 02:39:27 AM
 #36

I thought sirius runs it now, or maybe Gavin.

Sirius is the webmaster. Gavin is the lead developer.

abstraction
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March 30, 2011, 02:53:00 AM
 #37

I thought sirius runs it now, or maybe Gavin.

Sirius is the webmaster. Gavin is the lead developer.

Ok, so why is Satoshi our bottleneck? What is his mission statement? Can Sirius follow that?
kiba
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March 30, 2011, 02:57:27 AM
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Ok, so why is Satoshi our bottleneck? What is his mission statement? Can Sirius follow that?

Because Satoshi left us many moons ago and communication seems to be limited.

abstraction
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March 30, 2011, 08:03:33 AM
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Ok, so why is Satoshi our bottleneck? What is his mission statement? Can Sirius follow that?

Because Satoshi left us many moons ago and communication seems to be limited.

It's too bad we can't infer where he was going with this project.
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March 30, 2011, 08:36:42 AM
 #40


Ok, so why is Satoshi our bottleneck? What is his mission statement? Can Sirius follow that?

Because Satoshi left us many moons ago and communication seems to be limited.

It's too bad we can't infer where he was going with this project.

He made it open source and decentralised. It'll go wherever it goes.
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