Why are profits so low?

[adaseb]

Anyone thinking of getting into crypto now will be MUCH better off buying the coins instead of purchasing mining equipment.

I do think a lot of people are using free electricity from rental agreements, schools, businesses that they have access to which has over saturated the mining game causing profits to shrink to nothing.

I agree. Last year I only mined 5 Ltc with L3+.

I paid 2k for it on an early batch. Spent $800 on electric. And I had to pay IRS 30 percent of earned income.

So after spending $2800 and only mining 5 Ltc thats like paying $560 per litecoin not including the 30 percent IRS cut. If I did include IRS cut that's about paying $800 per litecoin.

So yes it's better to buy Ltc at all time high $400 than to buy mining gear.

Mining is a suckers game. All luck and most will fail. Mining gear hardware sellers know this and it's a way to trap new freshbait moonboy crypto newbs.

That's the reason I'm 90 percent coin investor and 10 percent miner.  I am not trying to spread any fud trying to scare others off.  Just letting people know the risk and mistakes I made so that way future investors that are wise will learn from the mistakes of others and not for themselves.  I learned a lot from other people's mistakes in the last bull run and was able to avoid some disasters.

In the past there was times when it was actually worth it buying mining rigs and its usually right before there is an explosion in price.

The reason why you lost money on your ASIC is because you bought it at the wrong time. If you bought the very first LTC ASIC which was released in 2013 you would of made good money.

Same with the people who got the pre-orders in for their KnCMiner Jupiters back in Oct/Nov 2013, they basically made like $50K and only cost $10K to buy. If you held till 2017 you would of made like $1,000,000 if you hodl'd all those coins which most did not.

So there are times when they make sense however its all still considered a risk.

[fmz89]

my rigs cost me about $12 per day in electricity

im mining about $18+ per day worth of crypto, which i will not mention

to me, i am still profitable which is why i still mine

i do not sell my crypto to pay for electricity, i do that out of my own pocket

i invest all my mining earnings into a coin that i believe will be worth something greater in the future (gambling)

So only 50% profit from electricity, considering it loss if you mining under 110% from electricity

[jvdp]

It is long back clearly known that Mining cost is high and due to that today mining is very bad idea and in 2020 when next halving will come then the outcome of btc will become 50% less, then even with low mining cost it wont give you profit until btc price is not increased above $6000.

The crypto mining is depends on the market scenario so it will be stay in same value no one is predict the  future outcome. Nowadays electricity cost is increase in many countries so carefully handle the mining industry because high hash rate cards are make good cost so we must the future returns in all the mining card.

[swogerino]

Yesterday we had a 500 dollars increase in bitcoin price which is something rare because we didn't see it much these last 4-5 months.

Keep mining and keep the faith in bitcoin, I say in 2021 miners will be the most happiest persons on earth.

[angel55]

Yesterday we had a 500 dollars increase in bitcoin price which is something rare because we didn't see it much these last 4-5 months.

Keep mining and keep the faith in bitcoin, I say in 2021 miners will be the most happiest persons on earth.

With every price increase comes an increase in difficulty, the profit margins will always be really small.  The only way to make real money in mining is to go speculate on the new coins with a low marketcap.

[lunobird]

Yesterday we had a 500 dollars increase in bitcoin price which is something rare because we didn't see it much these last 4-5 months.

Keep mining and keep the faith in bitcoin, I say in 2021 miners will be the most happiest persons on earth.

With every price increase comes an increase in difficulty, the profit margins will always be really small.  The only way to make real money in mining is to go speculate on the new coins with a low marketcap.

I agree that it's best to mine speculative coins if your stuck with any mining gear. Right now I mine beam, grin, and zcoin.

For those thinking of buying new gear here is something you should factor

 Why should we keep on mining in the negative which is the same as paying a premium for your coins. Just because price increases in the future doesn't justify we should mine at razor thin gains which further gets eaten up by IRS cut.

If these current conditions keep going this way for months to years a much better way is to buy coins and not have to give any cut to IRS since it's not income but an investment that's not taxed until you sell. This way makes a lot more sense

[adaseb]

my rigs cost me about $12 per day in electricity

im mining about $18+ per day worth of crypto, which i will not mention

to me, i am still profitable which is why i still mine

i do not sell my crypto to pay for electricity, i do that out of my own pocket

i invest all my mining earnings into a coin that i believe will be worth something greater in the future (gambling)

you are not winning, your gpus are getting old and useless, at least you are being smart for not selling your coins but would have been lot easier just to buy the coins from your pocket and wait it to multiply. you trolls just dont get it.

i am mining $18 worth at a cost of $12

how am i losing?

30 percent of any gains go to a IRS.
Your time spent to maintain rigs has a cost
The cost if the equipment to pay itself takes years.
Saving up for new equipment every 2 years.

That's how you can lose. All miners should be losing on paper taking Everything into account from a business operational farm perspective. Unless your a small timer and don't care for such things.

what is a IRS? haha

to be honest, i dont think i will be expanding my farm anymore

when mining with my gear now truly costs more in electricity than earnings, then i will retire

You must not be from the USA or watch any American movies. But IRS is the Internal Revenue Service and its basically the Tax Man you need to pay in April every year.

Mining is considered income and not investment income so you are taxed just like working a regular job. 30% is standard rate if you are making a middle class income.

[bbvedf]

my rigs cost me about $12 per day in electricity

im mining about $18+ per day worth of crypto, which i will not mention

to me, i am still profitable which is why i still mine

i do not sell my crypto to pay for electricity, i do that out of my own pocket

i invest all my mining earnings into a coin that i believe will be worth something greater in the future (gambling)

you are not winning, your gpus are getting old and useless, at least you are being smart for not selling your coins but would have been lot easier just to buy the coins from your pocket and wait it to multiply. you trolls just dont get it.

i am mining $18 worth at a cost of $12

how am i losing?

30 percent of any gains go to a IRS.
Your time spent to maintain rigs has a cost
The cost if the equipment to pay itself takes years.
Saving up for new equipment every 2 years.

That's how you can lose. All miners should be losing on paper taking Everything into account from a business operational farm perspective. Unless your a small timer and don't care for such things.

what is a IRS? haha

to be honest, i dont think i will be expanding my farm anymore

when mining with my gear now truly costs more in electricity than earnings, then i will retire

You must not be from the USA or watch any American movies. But IRS is the Internal Revenue Service and its basically the Tax Man you need to pay in April every year.

Mining is considered income and not investment income so you are taxed just like working a regular job. 30% is standard rate if you are making a middle class income.

In Spain there is still no regulation, but the electric cost is nonsense
I mine by hobby, by learning, by helping, ..., but I do not get benefit atm ... 

[adamvp]

Guys do you have any up-to-date comparison of most profitable coins?
I  heard that mining in overall is rather not profitable but sometimes there is coin which can bring decent profit for few hours or days..

[adaseb]

my rigs cost me about $12 per day in electricity

im mining about $18+ per day worth of crypto, which i will not mention

to me, i am still profitable which is why i still mine

i do not sell my crypto to pay for electricity, i do that out of my own pocket

i invest all my mining earnings into a coin that i believe will be worth something greater in the future (gambling)

you are not winning, your gpus are getting old and useless, at least you are being smart for not selling your coins but would have been lot easier just to buy the coins from your pocket and wait it to multiply. you trolls just dont get it.

i am mining $18 worth at a cost of $12

how am i losing?

30 percent of any gains go to a IRS.
Your time spent to maintain rigs has a cost
The cost if the equipment to pay itself takes years.
Saving up for new equipment every 2 years.

That's how you can lose. All miners should be losing on paper taking Everything into account from a business operational farm perspective. Unless your a small timer and don't care for such things.

what is a IRS? haha

to be honest, i dont think i will be expanding my farm anymore

when mining with my gear now truly costs more in electricity than earnings, then i will retire

You must not be from the USA or watch any American movies. But IRS is the Internal Revenue Service and its basically the Tax Man you need to pay in April every year.

Mining is considered income and not investment income so you are taxed just like working a regular job. 30% is standard rate if you are making a middle class income.

In Spain there is still no regulation, but the electric cost is nonsense
I mine by hobby, by learning, by helping, ..., but I do not get benefit atm ... 

There doesn't need to be regulation for Cryptos for you to owe any mining profits on it.

There are many ways of earning a living whether its mining or cutting hair. If you generate an income from it, you need to file your tax returns and you will be taxed as regular income.

Many are confusing as mining being "tax-free" or being considered "a gift" and its not true.

[angel55]

But the great thing about running your own business is that you can just keep reinvesting the profits so you don't have to pay any taxes.  Amazon has done this for years and often pays zero dollars in taxes because they keep reinvesting.

[bbvedf]

...

The benefits of the mining are not yet contemplated in the annual declaration.

You can mine, sell those coins, exchange them for fiat and not declare them. You get tx in a fiat account, your benefits, but there is no clear legislation in my country on how to make that statement.

If the volume is very high, it could be considered a capital increase (just like selling stocks), but not a benefit of work.
If the volume is low, it could be considered a donation.

It is clear that at some point it will be taxed, but for now no one knows how.

[lunobird]

But the great thing about running your own business is that you can just keep reinvesting the profits so you don't have to pay any taxes.  Amazon has done this for years and often pays zero dollars in taxes because they keep reinvesting.

Ya so that equals the same as  basically if you never put any money into crypto mining gear and you never pay any taxes because nothing was earned.  What a great goal

[lunobird]

...

The benefits of the mining are not yet contemplated in the annual declaration.

You can mine, sell those coins, exchange them for fiat and not declare them. You get tx in a fiat account, your benefits, but there is no clear legislation in my country on how to make that statement.

If the volume is very high, it could be considered a capital increase (just like selling stocks), but not a benefit of work.
If the volume is low, it could be considered a donation.

It is clear that at some point it will be taxed, but for now no one knows how.

In the united states mining is treated like running a small business which it is.   I would assume the same for your country that if you run a mining operation you should assume the laws will be like running a small business of any general type.  Best to follow the small business self employed rule weather crypto is stated specifically or not.  Since most countries follow the united states Irs rule sets so I would generally copy that as a good starting point.  That way you can claim equipment deduction.  Im sure your government tax authority will not be happy if your making equipment deduction claims and not reporting any income.  Best not to claim any equipment deductions if your not reporting income

[SpceGhst]

I don’t know how we got into solar panels and tax advice, neither of which has to do with low mining profits.

The reason for low profits right now is supply and demand... pure and simple.

Miners keep adding coins to the system, putting downward pressure on prices.  The only demand for coins is from speculators hoping that prices go up.  All the coins with promises of encrypted messages, anonymous browsing, cloud and offshore storage, and all the other promises... all a gimmick.  There’s nothing a coin has to offer that can’t be done some other way.

[lunobird]

I don’t know how we got into solar panels and tax advice, neither of which has to do with low mining profits.

The reason for low profits right now is supply and demand... pure and simple.

Miners keep adding coins to the system, putting downward pressure on prices.  The only demand for coins is from speculators hoping that prices go up.  All the coins with promises of encrypted messages, anonymous browsing, cloud and offshore storage, and all the other promises... all a gimmick.  There’s nothing a coin has to offer that can’t be done some other way.

Tax has everything to do with mining profits as that calculates your final take home pay in pocket.

Miners that keep mining coins and selling for sliver profits, will always be small timer low lives and never be able to expand.

I don't believe my miners would be selling this low but maybe they might if they got cheap electric and in desperation mode

[philipma1957]

I don’t know how we got into solar panels and tax advice, neither of which has to do with low mining profits.

The reason for low profits right now is supply and demand... pure and simple.

Miners keep adding coins to the system, putting downward pressure on prices.  The only demand for coins is from speculators hoping that prices go up.  All the coins with promises of encrypted messages, anonymous browsing, cloud and offshore storage, and all the other promises... all a gimmick.  There’s nothing a coin has to offer that can’t be done some other way.

Tax has everything to do with mining profits as that calculates your final take home pay in pocket.

Miners that keep mining coins and selling for sliver profits, will always be small timer low lives and never be able to expand.

I don't believe my miners would be selling this low but maybe they might if they got cheap electric and in desperation mode

Solar mining is profitable in NJ , USA

The down turn in mining has worked well for buysolar and myself.

I am now sitting on a certain profit for 2019. The question is how big?

Tax planning for mining is huge.

In USA if you sell gear and mine. You can legally push profits and taxes to the next year.

So 2017 profits were pushed into 2018. 2018 was a loss year but that made the 2017 profits that were legally moved into 2018 not get taxed much.

Now in 2019 if prices stay low my profits will be meh but there will be profit.

Since I can hold coins as long as I want and not worry about prices of power due to solar.
I will earn 10-12 k for 2019 but if coins jump up that will go up.

So solar panels and tax law makes certain profit for me in NJ.

If we stay with the two solar setups we will do okay.
100kwatt
300kwatt

Gives us 400kwatt total that is about 56 or 57 kwatts of free power.

We are doing 510th for btc
We are doing.  16gh for ltc
We are doing.  12x 1080ti’s
We are doing.   5x. Vega 56’s

[adaseb]

Next week should be an interesting week to see what happens with the network hashrate.

Currently looking at:
https://etherscan.io/chart/hashrate

We are at 160,000 GHS due to the recent bump in price.

We are going to get the difficulty bomb removed so back at 14 second block times but we also get the issuance reduced to 2ETH.

Depending what happens with the price, our profitability will most likely stay the same.

At $200 ETH, I think the daily revenue will also be similiar since more GPUs will go back online.

[Metroid]

for eth mining to survive --> to be the same as its right now, it has to reach to at least $200 per coin and keep that tomorrow. This is a good test to see how eth stands.

Get ready trolls, lets see breaking the cursed bitcoin $4500 or eth $200 mark.

[GarySeven]

No such luck.

I'm starting to believe that there is way more value in blockchain technology than in the currencies themselves.