2020 Democrats

[TwitchySeal]

"A Trump election conspiracy collapses"

 A Trump election conspiracy theory has fallen apart after Florida’s law enforcement agency said it had found no widespread voter fraud in the 2018 races for Senate and governor.

https://www.politico.com/states/florida/story/2020/05/21/a-trump-election-conspiracy-collapses-1285442

I wonder why they are pushing so hard for vote by mail for all?

The more people that vote, the better the democrats will do.

Conversely, the fewer people that vote, the better the Republicans will do.

Democrats are more prone to allow voter fraud, Republicans are more prone to suppressing voters.

You are conflating the ability to commit voter fraud with simply enabling voting. This is a popular fallacy Democrats like to spout any time voter fraud is brought up, because Democrats DEPEND on voter fraud to have a chance in hell. FYI, New Jersey isn't Florida.

.....

Looks like over the past several years there have been almost 1,000 convictions: https://www.heritage.org/sites/default/files/voterfraud_download/VoterFraudCases_5.pdf  Really not that big a deal.  Especially for a general election.

And trumps voter fraud commission turned up nothing.

"Report: Trump commission did not find widespread voter fraud"

https://apnews.com/f5f6a73b2af546ee97816bb35e82c18d/Report:-Trump-commission-did-not-find-widespread-voter-fraud....

The article really does not say what you assert.

Here is an excerpt.

The Trump administration last month complied with a court order to turn over documents from the voting integrity commission to Dunlap. The commission met just twice and has not issued a report.

Dunlap’s findings received immediate pushback Friday from Kobach, who acted as vice chair of the commission while Pence served as chair.

“For some people, no matter how many cases of voter fraud you show them, there will never be enough for them to admit that there’s a problem,” said Kobach, who is running for Kansas governor and has a good chance of unseating the incumbent, Jeff Colyer, in the Republican primary Tuesday.

“It appears that Secretary Dunlap is willfully blind to the voter fraud in front of his nose,” Kobach said in a statement released by his spokesman.

Kobach said there have been more than 1,000 convictions for voter fraud since 2000, and that the commission presented 8,400 instances of double voting in the 2016 election in 20 states.

“Had the commission done the same analysis of all 50 states, the number would have been exponentially higher,” Kobach said.

In response, Dunlap said those figures were never brought before the commission, and that Kobach hasn’t presented any evidence for his claims of double voting. He said the commission was presented with a report claiming over 1,000 convictions for various forms of voter misconduct since 1948.

Yeah I did read it.  I think it means they didn't find any evidence of wide spread voter fraud.
What conclusions are you coming to?  

If you're interested in what they actually did, Dunlop sued to force the release of thousands of documents related to the investigation.  They're all on this website: http://paceidocs.sosonline.org/  I haven't looked at any of them.

[1714063734]

1714063734

[Spendulus]

"A Trump election conspiracy collapses"

 A Trump election conspiracy theory has fallen apart after Florida’s law enforcement agency said it had found no widespread voter fraud in the 2018 races for Senate and governor.

https://www.politico.com/states/florida/story/2020/05/21/a-trump-election-conspiracy-collapses-1285442

I wonder why they are pushing so hard for vote by mail for all?

The more people that vote, the better the democrats will do.

Conversely, the fewer people that vote, the better the Republicans will do.

Democrats are more prone to allow voter fraud, Republicans are more prone to suppressing voters.

You are conflating the ability to commit voter fraud with simply enabling voting. This is a popular fallacy Democrats like to spout any time voter fraud is brought up, because Democrats DEPEND on voter fraud to have a chance in hell. FYI, New Jersey isn't Florida.

.....

Looks like over the past several years there have been almost 1,000 convictions: https://www.heritage.org/sites/default/files/voterfraud_download/VoterFraudCases_5.pdf  Really not that big a deal.  Especially for a general election.

And trumps voter fraud commission turned up nothing.

"Report: Trump commission did not find widespread voter fraud"

https://apnews.com/f5f6a73b2af546ee97816bb35e82c18d/Report:-Trump-commission-did-not-find-widespread-voter-fraud....

The article really does not say what you assert.

Here is an excerpt.

The Trump administration last month complied with a court order to turn over documents from the voting integrity commission to Dunlap. The commission met just twice and has not issued a report.

Dunlap’s findings received immediate pushback Friday from Kobach, who acted as vice chair of the commission while Pence served as chair.

“For some people, no matter how many cases of voter fraud you show them, there will never be enough for them to admit that there’s a problem,” said Kobach, who is running for Kansas governor and has a good chance of unseating the incumbent, Jeff Colyer, in the Republican primary Tuesday.

“It appears that Secretary Dunlap is willfully blind to the voter fraud in front of his nose,” Kobach said in a statement released by his spokesman.

Kobach said there have been more than 1,000 convictions for voter fraud since 2000, and that the commission presented 8,400 instances of double voting in the 2016 election in 20 states.

“Had the commission done the same analysis of all 50 states, the number would have been exponentially higher,” Kobach said.

In response, Dunlap said those figures were never brought before the commission, and that Kobach hasn’t presented any evidence for his claims of double voting. He said the commission was presented with a report claiming over 1,000 convictions for various forms of voter misconduct since 1948.

Yeah I did read it.  I think it means they didn't find any evidence of wide spread voter fraud.
What conclusions are you coming to?  ....

That it is a controversial subject, not adequately explored by this commission, and that a conclusive result in one direct, as you asserted, is not supported by the facts.

Of course there have been numerous other inquiries into this subject. I don't need to debate it, because I know for a fact of voter fraud, pro-Democratic, on a historical basis, and don't care to play the little game you have there.

[TECSHARE]

Yeah I did read it.  I think it means they didn't find any evidence of wide spread voter fraud.
What conclusions are you coming to?  ....

That it is a controversial subject, not adequately explored by this commission, and that a conclusive result in one direct, as you asserted, is not supported by the facts.

Of course there have been numerous other inquiries into this subject. I don't need to debate it, because I know for a fact of voter fraud, pro-Democratic, on a historical basis, and don't care to play the little game you have there.[/quote]

It is easy to keep convictions down when states refuse to release any data needed to investigate voter fraud.

[TwitchySeal]

Of course there have been numerous other inquiries into this subject. I don't need to debate it, because I know for a fact of voter fraud, pro-Democratic, on a historical basis, and don't care to play the little game you have there.

You know for a fact there has been "voter fraud, pro-Democratic, on a historical basis", but just don't want to show any evidence, huh.  I guess we'll just have to leave it at that.  Imagine how I would be mocked if I were to say something like that about republicans.

[TECSHARE]

Of course there have been numerous other inquiries into this subject. I don't need to debate it, because I know for a fact of voter fraud, pro-Democratic, on a historical basis, and don't care to play the little game you have there.

You know for a fact there has been "voter fraud, pro-Democratic, on a historical basis", but just don't want to show any evidence, huh.  I guess we'll just have to leave it at that.  Imagine how I would be mocked if I were to say something like that about republicans.

You mean like the Russian collusion delusion?

You mean evidence like this?

"In 59 Philadelphia voting divisions, Mitt Romney got zero votes"

https://www.inquirer.com/philly/news/politics/20121112_In_59_Philadelphia_voting_wards__Mitt_Romney_got_zero_votes.html



"Statement by the Press Secretary on the Presidential Advisory Commission on Election Integrity"

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/statement-press-secretary-presidential-advisory-commission-election-integrity/



"A Sampling of Recent Election Fraud Cases from Across the United States"

https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud



"| The Problem of Duplicate Voting 20171America The Vulnerable:  The Problem of Duplicate Voting"

http://g-a-i.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Voter-Fraud-Final-with-Appendix-1.pdf



"Voter Fraud: We’ve Got Proof It’s Easy"

https://www.nationalreview.com/2014/01/voter-fraud-weve-got-proof-its-easy-john-fund/



"Democrats Claim Voter Fraud is a Myth; Here's Proof It's Not"

https://thefederalistpapers.org/us/democrats-claim-voter-fraud-is-a-myth-heres-proof-its-not



"Proof Democrats are in Conspiracy to Commit Voter Fraud"

https://www.investmentwatchblog.com/proof-democrats-are-in-conspiracy-to-commit-voter-fraud/



"Colorado Counties Have More Voters Than People"

https://www.redstate.com/aarongardner/2012/09/04/colorado-counties-have-more-voters-than-people/



"In Florida: Obama Got Over 99% in Broward County Precincts "

www.punditpress.com/2012/11/in-florida-obama-got-over-99-in-broward.html



"St. Lucie County, Florida Had 141.1% Turnout; Obama Won County "

www.punditpress.com/2012/11/breaking-st-lucie-county-florida-had.html



"Obama Won Dozens of Cleveland Districts with 100% of the Vote "

www.punditpress.com/2012/11/what-luck-obama-won-dozens-of-cleveland.html



"Is voter fraud being committed in Ohio?"

https://humanevents.com/2012/10/26/is-voter-fraud-being-committed-in-ohio/



"Florida Vote Twist: More Ballots Than Voters"

https://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/robbins-report/2012/nov/10/florida-vote-twist-more-ballots-voters/



"Voter rolls in Ohio are bloated, experts say"

https://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2012/09/16/voter-rolls-in-ohio-are-bloated-experts-say.html



"'You have to vote for Dems,' NYC poll worker tells ... GOP Senate candidate"

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/you-have-to-vote-for-dems-nyc-poll-worker-tells-gop-senate-candidate



"Claims increase of machines switching votes in Ohio, other battlegrounds"

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/claims-increase-of-machines-switching-votes-in-ohio-other-battlegrounds



"Poll watcher sees Romney ballots changed"

https://www.wnd.com/2012/11/poll-watcher-sees-romney-ballots-changed/



"Vote Harvesting a Recipe for Coercion and Election Fraud"

https://www.heritage.org/election-integrity/commentary/vote-harvesting-recipe-coercion-and-election-fraud



"Database Swells to 1,285 Proven Cases of Voter Fraud in America"

https://www.heritage.org/election-integrity/commentary/database-swells-1285-proven-cases-voter-fraud-america



"Illegal Ballot Harvesting a Looming Issue in Arizona"

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2019/02/22/illegal_ballot_harvesting_a_looming_issue_in_arizona_.html



"HIDDEN CAM: NYC Democratic Election Commissioner, "They Bus People Around to Vote""

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUDTcxIqqM0



"North Carolina vote fraud case shows just why Congress should ban ballot-harvesting nationwide"

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2019/02/north_carolina_vote_fraud_case_shows_just_why_congress_should_ban_ballotharvesting_nationwide.html



"Michigan Recount Uncovers Serious Voter Fraud in Detroit- VOTES COUNTED UP TO 6 TIMES"

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/12/revealed-michigan-recount-uncovers-massive-voter-fraud-detroit-precincts/



"Mass Detroit Voter Fraud? - 37% Of Precincts Counted More Ballots Than Voters"

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-14/mass-detroit-voter-fraud-37-detroit-precincts-tallied-more-ballots-voters



"Hacking Democracy" (HBO)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YldIdkjrqM

[squatz1]

Of course there have been numerous other inquiries into this subject. I don't need to debate it, because I know for a fact of voter fraud, pro-Democratic, on a historical basis, and don't care to play the little game you have there.

You know for a fact there has been "voter fraud, pro-Democratic, on a historical basis", but just don't want to show any evidence, huh.  I guess we'll just have to leave it at that.  Imagine how I would be mocked if I were to say something like that about republicans.

Ya know for a while I was actually on the train of thinking that Democrats always wanted to commit voter fraud and that Republicans were losing certain races b/c of voter fraud. But then at a certain point I noticed that if it was so easy for Democrats to be committing voter fraud, why wouldn't Republicans be doing the same thing?

The answer to that question isn't that Republicans are more righteous then Dems or something, it's just that it doesn't happen. I'm not even exactly sure that you'd be able to do so for the races that people are talking about. Is it possible that voter fraud has happened in the past and no one has picked up on it? Yes. -- But I mean, we're talking VERY CLOSE races in districts were a few hundred or a few thousand votes could change the election. That's a logistical nightmare to pull off and the risks are immense to those involved.

Not sure many people would put their careers and their freedom (massive jail time for orchestrating this) on the line for this sort of thing.

[TECSHARE]

Ya know for a while I was actually on the train of thinking that Democrats always wanted to commit voter fraud and that Republicans were losing certain races b/c of voter fraud. But then at a certain point I noticed that if it was so easy for Democrats to be committing voter fraud, why wouldn't Republicans be doing the same thing?

The answer to that question isn't that Republicans are more righteous then Dems or something, it's just that it doesn't happen. I'm not even exactly sure that you'd be able to do so for the races that people are talking about. Is it possible that voter fraud has happened in the past and no one has picked up on it? Yes. -- But I mean, we're talking VERY CLOSE races in districts were a few hundred or a few thousand votes could change the election. That's a logistical nightmare to pull off and the risks are immense to those involved.

Not sure many people would put their careers and their freedom (massive jail time for orchestrating this) on the line for this sort of thing.

Could it possibly be because they are already in control of those districts where it is most likely, and that certain policy positions, such as open borders are more conductive to voter fraud? Could it be that Republicans tend to have more respect for rule of law? Of course not, false equivalence to the rescue!

It is a well documented fact voter fraud happens, furthermore investigations into such activities were actively blocked by Democrat controlled states, making a complete investigation of the matter that much more difficult. It is not such a logistical nightmare if you know how the systems work, check out the documentary above titled "Hacking Democracy" produced by HBO where they go into detail exactly how it is pulled off and hidden.

There is not much of a risk if hardly anyone is prosecuted let alone caught now is there? Lets not forget as well that anyone of any moderate influence will maintain plausible deniability over the matter and insure they are insulated from the direct activities of voter fraud that can be proven.

[suchmoon]

Ya know for a while I was actually on the train of thinking that Democrats always wanted to commit voter fraud and that Republicans were losing certain races b/c of voter fraud. But then at a certain point I noticed that if it was so easy for Democrats to be committing voter fraud, why wouldn't Republicans be doing the same thing?

The answer to that question isn't that Republicans are more righteous then Dems or something, it's just that it doesn't happen. I'm not even exactly sure that you'd be able to do so for the races that people are talking about. Is it possible that voter fraud has happened in the past and no one has picked up on it? Yes. -- But I mean, we're talking VERY CLOSE races in districts were a few hundred or a few thousand votes could change the election. That's a logistical nightmare to pull off and the risks are immense to those involved.

Not sure many people would put their careers and their freedom (massive jail time for orchestrating this) on the line for this sort of thing.

Conspiracy theories aside, I recall one recent proven case of fraud where the result might have been affected by it, and it was committed by a Republican candidate:

"North Carolina vote fraud case shows just why Congress should ban ballot-harvesting nationwide"

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2019/02/north_carolina_vote_fraud_case_shows_just_why_congress_should_ban_ballotharvesting_nationwide.html

[philipma1957]

We live in a criminal state run by two gangs democrats and republicans.

The state was created using black slaves and murdering native americans.

Any idea that voting and a democracy is real is a sad joke.

When Bush was leaving he came up with the fuck democracy law that the senate must vote 60-40 not 51-49.

this was passed via a 50-50 tie with dick Chaney acting as the tiebreaker.


so the senate must pass shit 60-40

when obama got in people were so tired of bush and chaney they elected 60 senators as democrats and 62% of congressman were democrats.

so obama had the house and the senate.


in under one year one of the 60 democratic senators said i am switching to republican.

that is the day a american  democracy  died.

All the discussion here is why the bs never ends as any republican and any democrat is too wrapped in party belief to see the picture below:

We never really were a democracy and we won’t become one.

In 2016 I voted for Donald Trump and for Hillary Clinton.
in 2020 I will vote For Donald Trump and for Joe Biden.

I will do so legally and cast my ballets in person on my towns voting machines.

No fraud involved.

[TECSHARE]

Conspiracy theories aside, I recall one recent proven case of fraud where the result might have been affected by it, and it was committed by a Republican candidate:

"North Carolina vote fraud case shows just why Congress should ban ballot-harvesting nationwide"

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2019/02/north_carolina_vote_fraud_case_shows_just_why_congress_should_ban_ballotharvesting_nationwide.html

Fortunately the world is not limited to what you recall. Lets just call documented fact "conspiracy theory" and pretend like it doesn't exist. I guess voter fraud is only important when it doesn't serve your interests.

"In 59 Philadelphia voting divisions, Mitt Romney got zero votes"

https://www.inquirer.com/philly/news/politics/20121112_In_59_Philadelphia_voting_wards__Mitt_Romney_got_zero_votes.html



"Statement by the Press Secretary on the Presidential Advisory Commission on Election Integrity"

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/statement-press-secretary-presidential-advisory-commission-election-integrity/



"A Sampling of Recent Election Fraud Cases from Across the United States"

https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud



"| The Problem of Duplicate Voting 20171America The Vulnerable:  The Problem of Duplicate Voting"

http://g-a-i.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Voter-Fraud-Final-with-Appendix-1.pdf



"Voter Fraud: We’ve Got Proof It’s Easy"

https://www.nationalreview.com/2014/01/voter-fraud-weve-got-proof-its-easy-john-fund/



"Democrats Claim Voter Fraud is a Myth; Here's Proof It's Not"

https://thefederalistpapers.org/us/democrats-claim-voter-fraud-is-a-myth-heres-proof-its-not



"Proof Democrats are in Conspiracy to Commit Voter Fraud"

https://www.investmentwatchblog.com/proof-democrats-are-in-conspiracy-to-commit-voter-fraud/



"Colorado Counties Have More Voters Than People"

https://www.redstate.com/aarongardner/2012/09/04/colorado-counties-have-more-voters-than-people/



"In Florida: Obama Got Over 99% in Broward County Precincts "

www.punditpress.com/2012/11/in-florida-obama-got-over-99-in-broward.html



"St. Lucie County, Florida Had 141.1% Turnout; Obama Won County "

www.punditpress.com/2012/11/breaking-st-lucie-county-florida-had.html



"Obama Won Dozens of Cleveland Districts with 100% of the Vote "

www.punditpress.com/2012/11/what-luck-obama-won-dozens-of-cleveland.html



"Is voter fraud being committed in Ohio?"

https://humanevents.com/2012/10/26/is-voter-fraud-being-committed-in-ohio/



"Florida Vote Twist: More Ballots Than Voters"

https://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/robbins-report/2012/nov/10/florida-vote-twist-more-ballots-voters/



"Voter rolls in Ohio are bloated, experts say"

https://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2012/09/16/voter-rolls-in-ohio-are-bloated-experts-say.html



"'You have to vote for Dems,' NYC poll worker tells ... GOP Senate candidate"

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/you-have-to-vote-for-dems-nyc-poll-worker-tells-gop-senate-candidate



"Claims increase of machines switching votes in Ohio, other battlegrounds"

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/claims-increase-of-machines-switching-votes-in-ohio-other-battlegrounds



"Poll watcher sees Romney ballots changed"

https://www.wnd.com/2012/11/poll-watcher-sees-romney-ballots-changed/



"Vote Harvesting a Recipe for Coercion and Election Fraud"

https://www.heritage.org/election-integrity/commentary/vote-harvesting-recipe-coercion-and-election-fraud



"Database Swells to 1,285 Proven Cases of Voter Fraud in America"

https://www.heritage.org/election-integrity/commentary/database-swells-1285-proven-cases-voter-fraud-america



"Illegal Ballot Harvesting a Looming Issue in Arizona"

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2019/02/22/illegal_ballot_harvesting_a_looming_issue_in_arizona_.html



"HIDDEN CAM: NYC Democratic Election Commissioner, "They Bus People Around to Vote""

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUDTcxIqqM0



"North Carolina vote fraud case shows just why Congress should ban ballot-harvesting nationwide"

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2019/02/north_carolina_vote_fraud_case_shows_just_why_congress_should_ban_ballotharvesting_nationwide.html



"Michigan Recount Uncovers Serious Voter Fraud in Detroit- VOTES COUNTED UP TO 6 TIMES"

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/12/revealed-michigan-recount-uncovers-massive-voter-fraud-detroit-precincts/



"Mass Detroit Voter Fraud? - 37% Of Precincts Counted More Ballots Than Voters"

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-14/mass-detroit-voter-fraud-37-detroit-precincts-tallied-more-ballots-voters



"Hacking Democracy" (HBO)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YldIdkjrqM

[squatz1]

Ya know for a while I was actually on the train of thinking that Democrats always wanted to commit voter fraud and that Republicans were losing certain races b/c of voter fraud. But then at a certain point I noticed that if it was so easy for Democrats to be committing voter fraud, why wouldn't Republicans be doing the same thing?

The answer to that question isn't that Republicans are more righteous then Dems or something, it's just that it doesn't happen. I'm not even exactly sure that you'd be able to do so for the races that people are talking about. Is it possible that voter fraud has happened in the past and no one has picked up on it? Yes. -- But I mean, we're talking VERY CLOSE races in districts were a few hundred or a few thousand votes could change the election. That's a logistical nightmare to pull off and the risks are immense to those involved.

Not sure many people would put their careers and their freedom (massive jail time for orchestrating this) on the line for this sort of thing.

Conspiracy theories aside, I recall one recent proven case of fraud where the result might have been affected by it, and it was committed by a Republican candidate:

"North Carolina vote fraud case shows just why Congress should ban ballot-harvesting nationwide"

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2019/02/north_carolina_vote_fraud_case_shows_just_why_congress_should_ban_ballotharvesting_nationwide.html

There's probably cases on both sides of the aisle, but it can only really change the outcome of a race in a small district with a small amount of people voting. Still, takes some balls to do it and put your entire career on the line to do so. Not only your own career by the way, you literally need to convince other people to put their freedom on the line for you to win your own race -- as your most likely going to be unable to do this alone.

Found this write up on reddit about voter fraud, very interesting - https://www.reddit.com/r/TexasPolitics/comments/aoluu6/fact_checking_the_voter_fraud_debacle_with/

[suchmoon]

Fortunately the world is not limited to what you recall. Lets just call documented fact "conspiracy theory" and pretend like it doesn't exist. I guess voter fraud is only important when it doesn't serve your interests.

You have extremely flexible standards of what passes for a "documented fact". The NC 9th district case was a serious one, they had to re-run the election. A republican still won BTW so there is an argument to be made that even this case of fraud didn't really change the outcome.

How many such cases can you show let's say in the last 20 years? Proven in the court of law, with the potential to change the outcome of an election.

[squatz1]

Fortunately the world is not limited to what you recall. Lets just call documented fact "conspiracy theory" and pretend like it doesn't exist. I guess voter fraud is only important when it doesn't serve your interests.

You have extremely flexible standards of what passes for a "documented fact". The NC 9th district case was a serious one, they had to re-run the election. A republican still won BTW so there is argument to be made that even this case of fraud didn't really change the outcome.

How many such cases can you show let's say in the last 20 years? Proven in the court of law, with the potential to change the outcome of an election.

I don't think we have to set it up to the degree of -- potential to change the outcome of an election -- but I still do agree with the sentiment here. I doubt there are many cases that can be found of voter fraud to begin with, let along with the chance of changing the outcome of the election.

A vote that is illegal is a problem even if it doesn't change the outcome of the election -- effectively it cancels out the vote of someone who is legally allowed to vote. But yes, there should obviously be more attention given to the time where the outcome of the election was (or could've) been altered.

I still think one of the most important things to say to those that think voter fraud is plaguing the nation is -- if it is so easy for Democrats to do it -- why don't Republicans do it right back to balance all of this out? You can't just say that every time you lose its voter fraud and every time you win it's just normal voting.

[suchmoon]

I don't think we have to set it up to the degree of -- potential to change the outcome of an election -- but I still do agree with the sentiment here. I doubt there are many cases that can be found of voter fraud to begin with, let along with the chance of changing the outcome of the election.

A vote that is illegal is a problem even if it doesn't change the outcome of the election -- effectively it cancels out the vote of someone who is legally allowed to vote. But yes, there should obviously be more attention given to the time where the outcome of the election was (or could've) been altered.

Absolutely, fraud is fraud and needs to be prosecuted regardless if it's successful or not. I'm just saying that this whole idea that Democrats (or Republicans) engage in election fraud on a massive scale is far from a "documented fact" and it doesn't really make much sense that a political party commits such massive fraud but it doesn't affect the outcome and they never get caught.

BTW many types of election fraud are federal crimes even if committed in local elections. So the conspiracy theory that states are hiding something doesn't make much sense either. Trump could send the FBI (or the Space Force since he obviously doesn't trust the FBI) and blow this thing wide open.

[Gyfts]

https://bookies.com/news/joe-biden-vp-pick-odds

Kamala Harris's odds jumped up at a decent margin after Biden's "You ain't black" fiasco. She's currently at a +180 meanwhile Stacey Abrams is at +1400. Lots of speculation that Biden will select a colored women as a VP pick but I don't think his slip up will cause him to lose black support so I'm not sure why Harris is doing so well in the betting odds. Biden has Obama's endorsement and there is no doubt Obama will go to southern states to campaign for Biden.

He needs help in swing states and I think Amy Klobuchar is a good moderate candidate. Kamala Harris has a terrible record as California Attorney General and Mike Pence would wouldn't put it behind her on a debate stage. Klobuchar is a decent debater as well so if I were on the Biden team, I'd pick her to go against Pence.

[TECSHARE]

Fortunately the world is not limited to what you recall. Lets just call documented fact "conspiracy theory" and pretend like it doesn't exist. I guess voter fraud is only important when it doesn't serve your interests.

You have extremely flexible standards of what passes for a "documented fact". The NC 9th district case was a serious one, they had to re-run the election. A republican still won BTW so there is an argument to be made that even this case of fraud didn't really change the outcome.

How many such cases can you show let's say in the last 20 years? Proven in the court of law, with the potential to change the outcome of an election.

Weird how the only case you think is serious is the single one that supports your bias. It is almost like you have no principles and think the ends justify the means, and gaining power at any cost is acceptable to you. You keep pretending like facts like convictions aren't facts. Furthermore for every conviction, every case proven, there are many more not proven that actually happened.

I don't think we have to set it up to the degree of -- potential to change the outcome of an election -- but I still do agree with the sentiment here. I doubt there are many cases that can be found of voter fraud to begin with, let along with the chance of changing the outcome of the election.

A vote that is illegal is a problem even if it doesn't change the outcome of the election -- effectively it cancels out the vote of someone who is legally allowed to vote. But yes, there should obviously be more attention given to the time where the outcome of the election was (or could've) been altered.

I still think one of the most important things to say to those that think voter fraud is plaguing the nation is -- if it is so easy for Democrats to do it -- why don't Republicans do it right back to balance all of this out? You can't just say that every time you lose its voter fraud and every time you win it's just normal voting.

How would you know whether it effected the election or not if it was successful? If you weren't so insistent of running from the bad man who tells you things you don't want to see, you would see there are many PROVEN cases of voter fraud in the US, along with cases that pretty obviously effected the outcome of the related elections. Your argument is nothing but false equivalence with more false equivalence stacked on top of it. You are a poser, and just as disingenuous as the rest of these leftist goons here.

Absolutely, fraud is fraud and needs to be prosecuted regardless if it's successful or not. I'm just saying that this whole idea that Democrats (or Republicans) engage in election fraud on a massive scale is far from a "documented fact" and it doesn't really make much sense that a political party commits such massive fraud but it doesn't affect the outcome and they never get caught.

BTW many types of election fraud are federal crimes even if committed in local elections. So the conspiracy theory that states are hiding something doesn't make much sense either. Trump could send the FBI (or the Space Force since he obviously doesn't trust the FBI) and blow this thing wide open.

I see, first it was no election fraud happens, then the qualifiers come out "on a massive scale" as if it is acceptable if it is "just a little bit" of voter fraud. The states still have control of all the information needed to compare the public record with the actual voter information. They attempted to investigate it, but the localities REFUSED TO COOPERATE. What does refusing to cooperate with a criminal investigation usually mean? What do they have to hide?

For fuck sake Democrats are openly advocating for illegal aliens to be able to vote, and even to vote illegally. Weird how we just spent three years, millions of dollars, and created all kind of national divides over foreign election interference, just so long as the aliens voting aren't Russians it is A-OK.

[squatz1]

I don't think we have to set it up to the degree of -- potential to change the outcome of an election -- but I still do agree with the sentiment here. I doubt there are many cases that can be found of voter fraud to begin with, let along with the chance of changing the outcome of the election.

A vote that is illegal is a problem even if it doesn't change the outcome of the election -- effectively it cancels out the vote of someone who is legally allowed to vote. But yes, there should obviously be more attention given to the time where the outcome of the election was (or could've) been altered.

Absolutely, fraud is fraud and needs to be prosecuted regardless if it's successful or not. I'm just saying that this whole idea that Democrats (or Republicans) engage in election fraud on a massive scale is far from a "documented fact" and it doesn't really make much sense that a political party commits such massive fraud but it doesn't affect the outcome and they never get caught.

BTW many types of election fraud are federal crimes even if committed in local elections. So the conspiracy theory that states are hiding something doesn't make much sense either. Trump could send the FBI (or the Space Force since he obviously doesn't trust the FBI) and blow this thing wide open.

Oh yeah you're totally right when it comes to this. This is why I said that if Democrats are doing it then why aren't Republicans doing it -- the reason is that it isn't happening (at least on the scale that some are talking about).

Lol on the Space Force thing, but yeah -- the Feds are the people that investigate this, so if Trump really thinks that he can back his claims he could form task forces and such to combat this. Could literally just sign an executive order tomorrow directing them to investigate claims of this.

[TwitchySeal]

I don't think we have to set it up to the degree of -- potential to change the outcome of an election -- but I still do agree with the sentiment here. I doubt there are many cases that can be found of voter fraud to begin with, let along with the chance of changing the outcome of the election.

A vote that is illegal is a problem even if it doesn't change the outcome of the election -- effectively it cancels out the vote of someone who is legally allowed to vote. But yes, there should obviously be more attention given to the time where the outcome of the election was (or could've) been altered.

Absolutely, fraud is fraud and needs to be prosecuted regardless if it's successful or not. I'm just saying that this whole idea that Democrats (or Republicans) engage in election fraud on a massive scale is far from a "documented fact" and it doesn't really make much sense that a political party commits such massive fraud but it doesn't affect the outcome and they never get caught.

BTW many types of election fraud are federal crimes even if committed in local elections. So the conspiracy theory that states are hiding something doesn't make much sense either. Trump could send the FBI (or the Space Force since he obviously doesn't trust the FBI) and blow this thing wide open.

Oh yeah you're totally right when it comes to this. This is why I said that if Democrats are doing it then why aren't Republicans doing it -- the reason is that it isn't happening (at least on the scale that some are talking about).

Lol on the Space Force thing, but yeah -- the Feds are the people that investigate this, so if Trump really thinks that he can back his claims he could form task forces and such to combat this. Could literally just sign an executive order tomorrow directing them to investigate claims of this.

It really comes down to the fact that there are more Democrats that don't vote than Republicans, and if we make it easier to vote, there will be more Democrat than Republican voters who wouldn't have voted otherwise.  

In other words, anything that makes it easier to vote = win for Democrats.  Harder to vote = win for Republicans.

When Democrats try to make it easier to vote, Republicans accuse them of allowing voter fraud.
When Republicans try to make it harder to vote, Democrats accuse them of voter suppression.
That's how it's been for years.  It's just politics.

I'm sure if it were the other way around, we'd see the same arguments being made.  Democrats would be the one pushing laws to make it harder to vote and Republicans would be accusing them of voter suppression.

Trump is taking it to a whole new level.  In 2016 he said lost the popular vote by 3 million votes only because there were up to 5 million illegal votes cast for Clinton.  He's already laying the ground work for 2020 claiming it will be the most rigged election in history.  He's also convinced many that there is exactly a 0% chance that he will lose in November.  A narrow Democratic victory in Nov could actually be a disaster.

[TECSHARE]

Oh yeah you're totally right when it comes to this. This is why I said that if Democrats are doing it then why aren't Republicans doing it -- the reason is that it isn't happening (at least on the scale that some are talking about).

Lol on the Space Force thing, but yeah -- the Feds are the people that investigate this, so if Trump really thinks that he can back his claims he could form task forces and such to combat this. Could literally just sign an executive order tomorrow directing them to investigate claims of this.

He already did that, and the localities refused to cooperate by providing the required information.

"Statement by the Press Secretary on the Presidential Advisory Commission on Election Integrity"

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/statement-press-secretary-presidential-advisory-commission-election-integrity/

What could they possibly be hiding?

It really comes down to the fact that there are more Democrats that don't vote than Republicans, and if we make it easier to vote, there will be more Democrat than Republican voters who wouldn't have voted otherwise. 

In other words, anything that makes it easier to vote = win for Democrats.  Harder to vote = win for Republicans.

When Democrats try to make it easier to vote, Republicans accuse them of allowing voter fraud.
When Republicans try to make it harder to vote, Democrats accuse them of voter suppression.
That's how it's been for years.  It's just politics.

I'm sure if it were the other way around, we'd see the same arguments being made.  Democrats would be the one pushing laws to make it harder to vote and Republicans would be accusing them of voter suppression.

Trump is taking it to a whole new level.  In 2016 he said lost the popular vote by 3 million votes only because there were up to 5 million illegal votes cast for Clinton.  He's already laying the ground work for 2020 claiming it will be the most rigged election in history.  He's also convinced many that there is exactly a 0% chance that he will lose in November.  A narrow Democratic victory in Nov could actually be a disaster.

Democrats don't vote because their party is shit and their voter base is unmotivated. Who can blame them when they repeatedly disenfranchise the population like they did with Bernie over and over trying to force feed their establishment candidates. It is not difficult to vote. What you call "making it easier" is really just making FRAUD easier, which is what Democrats depend on to maintain control.

Regarding Clinton's "win of the popular vote"...


"It's Official: Clinton's Popular Vote Win Came Entirely From California"

https://www.investors.com/politics/commentary/its-official-clintons-popular-vote-win-came-entirely-from-california/



"California DMV to be audited after lawmakers become suspicious of voter fraud"

https://abc30.com/society/california-dmv-audited-after-lawmakers-become-suspicious-of-voter-fraud/5160294/



"Ghost Voters - At least 3.5 million more people are on U.S. election rolls than are eligible to vote."

https://www.nationalreview.com/2017/08/election-fraud-registered-voters-outnumber-eligible-voters-462-counties/



"Voter Fraud Rampant in Sanctuary Cities"

https://www.libertyheadlines.com/fraud-rampant-sanctuary/



"11 California counties have more registered voters than eligible adults"

http://www.judicialwatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/NVRA-letter-CA-August-2017-1.pdf



"'Voter fraud'? California man finds dozens of ballots stacked outside home"

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/voter-fraud-california-man-finds-dozens-of-ballots-stacked-outside-home



"Dick Morris: 'Audacious Lawsuit' Could End Voter Fraud in California"

https://www.westernjournal.com/dick-morris-audacious-lawsuit-end-voter-fraud-california/



"Dead Voters Discovered In California — Voter Fraud Suspected"

https://www.inquisitr.com/3132199/dead-voters-discovered-in-california-voter-fraud-suspected/



"CBS2 Investigation Uncovers Votes Being Cast From Grave Year After Year"

https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2016/05/23/cbs2-investigation-uncovers-votes-being-cast-from-grave-year-after-year/



"California’s Recipe for Voter Fraud on a Massive Scale"

https://www.breitbart.com/local/2017/01/27/voter-fraud/



"How California DMV Could Settle the Question of Voter Fraud"

https://www.breitbart.com/local/2017/04/28/donnelly-california-dmv-may-have-accidentally-provided-trump-a-way-to-prove-voter-fraud/



"California DMV to be audited for voter fraud"

https://www.investmentwatchblog.com/california-dmv-to-be-audited-for-voter-fraud/

[TwitchySeal]

[google results for 'voter fraud trump won popular vote']

You can type anything into google and find media reports to back up whatever argument you can think of.

They're all sensationalized and don't prove anything other than 'voter fraud happens'.  And nobody is arguing whether or not voter fraud happens.  It does.  There is proof it happens.  We all know it happens.

I randomly just clicked on this one:

"Voter Fraud Rampant in Sanctuary Cities"

https://www.libertyheadlines.com/fraud-rampant-sanctuary/

Continuing a series of reports on rampant fraud in voter registration and participation, the Public Interest Legal Foundation this week reported that more than 3,100 non-citizens registered to vote in just 13 “sanctuary cities” in the past decade.

This comes on the heels of a report last week that 19 illegal aliens were charged with voting in North Carolina in the 2016 presidential election.

The article is more about immigration than any voter fraud, but we learned that there were 19 illegal aliens that voted in NC.  They were charged. Over the past 10 years 3,120 names were removed from the voter registry because the person requested it themselves, it was a mistake at the dmv or shit like that.

So yeah.  Voter fraud happens.  Good job.