Iran and Bitcoin....

[slaveforanunnak1]

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/204a9e/iran_is_looking_into_regulating_bitcoin/

Reaaadyyyyy GO!

[farlack]

No one cares about Iran.

[Griegura]

It's the kind of think that could save Iranian Rial, and I don't see why the Iranian Gov would be against it. Iran is religiously controlled not Bank controlled as we are here in Europe.

[gentlemand]

It'll be interesting to see what Islamic folks make of Bitcoin considering its non usurious nature.

[Griegura]

Thats what I'm saying this could be a really nice surprise for us all. I studied that they do have some cities that are free commerce cities from which the Iranian goverment has always planed toi compete with the UAE...maybe they allow bitcoin accounts in this cities...

[slaveforanunnak1]

No one cares about Iran.

And by no one you mean you?

[FeedbackLoop]

It'll be interesting to see what Islamic folks make of Bitcoin considering its non usurious nature.

Indeed! Although religion, free from logic, does not have to follow its own rules. Isn't Rial a fractional reserve currency?

Regarding usury this is also very true for christianity as well, with the new and old testament both strongly attacking and forbidding usury and yet christians have no problems with present fiat, fractional reserve systems.
 

[Dalmar]

Indeed! Although religion, free from logic, does not have to follow its own rules. Isn't Rial a fractional reserve currency?

Regarding usury this is also very true for christianity as well, with the new and old testament both strongly attacking and forbidding usury and yet christians have no problems with present fiat, fractional reserve systems.

Usury is not the same thing as tiny amounts of interest, which is inherent to the fiat system. Usury would be like taking a loan denominated in bitcoin, and having to pay it back in bitcoin after it has gone to the moon (effectively shorting an exponentially growing asset).

Overall, bitcoin is more usurious than fiat.

[E.exchanger]

OK iran is regulation bitcoins so what's the sign of concern here ? its good though atleast there are countries who are promoting bitcoins unlike russia usa etc !!!

[Ozymandias]

Indeed! Although religion, free from logic, does not have to follow its own rules. Isn't Rial a fractional reserve currency?

Regarding usury this is also very true for christianity as well, with the new and old testament both strongly attacking and forbidding usury and yet christians have no problems with present fiat, fractional reserve systems.

Usury is not the same thing as tiny amounts of interest, which is inherent to the fiat system. Usury would be like taking a loan denominated in bitcoin, and having to pay it back in bitcoin after it has gone to the moon (effectively shorting an exponentially growing asset).

Overall, bitcoin is more usurious than fiat.

This doesn't make sense... at all. Was it usurious to denominate loans in just about any currency but the german mark in the several years following world war I since those same currencies went "to da moon" with respect to the mark? How about denominating loans in any currency but the Zimbabwean dollar during its period of hyperinflation? Just because one currency outperforms another does not make loans denominated in the more successful currency usurious.

[Dalmar]

This doesn't make sense... at all. Was it usurious to denominate loans in just about any currency but the german mark in the several years following world war I since those same currencies went "to da moon" with respect to the mark? How about denominating loans in any currency but the Zimbabwean dollar during its period of hyperinflation? Just because one currency outperforms another does not make loans denominated in the more successful currency usurious.

A 1000 BTC loan in 2011 that had to be paid back today, would be considered usurious by any standard of the definition.

Taking mid-to-long term loans in bitcoin - if the trend still holds - is the most usurious thing ever.

[Griegura]

OK iran is regulation bitcoins so what's the sign of concern here ? its good though atleast there are countries who are promoting bitcoins unlike russia usa etc !!!

A stronger market, If there are a couple cities in Iran where companies can make deals in bitcoins and have a determined legal covering that will give bitcoin a strong push and will force Iran's regional competitors to embrece Bitcoin as well.

[Ozymandias]

This doesn't make sense... at all. Was it usurious to denominate loans in just about any currency but the german mark in the several years following world war I since those same currencies went "to da moon" with respect to the mark? How about denominating loans in any currency but the Zimbabwean dollar during its period of hyperinflation? Just because one currency outperforms another does not make loans denominated in the more successful currency usurious.

A 1000 BTC loan in 2011 that had to be paid back today, would be considered usurious by any standard of the definition.

Taking mid-to-long term loans in bitcoin - if the trend still holds - is the most usurious thing ever.

We may be disagreeing on definitions then. I understand usury as something that unfairly enriches the loaning party at the expense of the one taking the loan. Would you agree with this?

If you would, then lets have a little thought experiment: Alice wants to borrow 1000btc from Bob. Bob is a nice guy and decides to lend Alice the 1000btc and not even charge interest for it! When it comes time to repay the 1000btc that Alice borrowed what number of btc (the currency in which the loan was denominated) would it be fair for her to repay?

A) Greater than 1000btc (strange since Bob didn't ask for any interest)
B) 1000btc (as per the terms of the loan to which they mutually agreed)
C) Less than 1000btc (in which case Bob has lost money on his loan)

EDIT: to put it a simpler way, why should Bob be held responsible for Alice's gambling on weaker currencies? If in 1919 Alice had borrowed $1000 and invested them in german marks, then a year or two later paid Bob pack $0.01 on the basis of that's how many dollars her current marks were worth, would you claim that as anything but fraud?

[Dalmar]

We may be disagreeing on definitions then. I understand usury as something that unfairly enriches the loaning party at the expense of the one taking the loan. Would you agree with this?

If you would, then lets have a little thought experiment: Alice wants to borrow 1000btc from Bob. Bob is a nice guy and decides to lend Alice the 1000btc and not even charge interest for it! When it comes time to repay the 1000btc that Alice borrowed what number of btc (the currency in which the loan was denominated) would it be fair for her to repay?

A) Greater than 1000btc (strange since Bob didn't ask for any interest)
B) 1000btc (as per the terms of the loan to which they mutually agreed)
C) Less than 1000btc (in which case Bob has lost money on his loan)

The problem is that at the present almost nobody receives wages in bitcoin nor do living costs correlate to bitcoin prices. Unless Alice is using that 1k BTC loan to fool around with altcoins, most other economic activities are totally unrelated to bitcoin. So, if she took that loan and used it in the 'real world' she effectively got goxed (screwed over) even if no interest is charged. I would consider this usurious.

[S4VV4S]

It's the kind of think that could save Iranian Rial, and I don't see why the Iranian Gov would be against it. Iran is religiously controlled not Bank controlled as we are here in Europe.

LOL 
Religion has a lot of control but not even close to the kind of control the Banks have.
Don't forget ALL of our churches here in Europe are money driven

Look at all the bling bling the priests are wearing then ask your self again, who controls what?

[IrishFutbol]

Wouldn't this be bad for bitcoin?  If Iran tried to use them to get around sanctions, it would pretty much be a given that every major country participating in the sanctions would go after bitcoin.

[gentlemand]

Just in time to launch DeathToAmericaCoin.

[slaveforanunnak1]

one word....eheeeeooOIL
what would happen to price of bitcoin if Iran says " ok.. sure.. i'll sell you oil in BTC"

[S4VV4S]

one word....eheeeeooOIL
what would happen to price of bitcoin if Iran says " ok.. sure.. i'll sell you oil in BTC"

Imagine what would Iran say when a smart guy asks for a huge amount of oil supply but to pay with Bitcoins
Would they not accept it then?

[Lauda]

No one cares about Iran.

This is correct. I expected some better news at least.

[Meuh6879]

No one cares about Iran.

  but they have petrol ... and they can buy bitcoin freely (embargo system out).

[Lauda]

No one cares about Iran.

  but they have petrol ... and they can buy bitcoin freely (embargo system out).

Maybe they can, doesn't mean they will.

[Meuh6879]

Ok, they can sell silicium too ... 

[bananas]

one word....eheeeeooOIL
what would happen to price of bitcoin if Iran says " ok.. sure.. i'll sell you oil in BTC"

Imagine what would Iran say when a smart guy asks for a huge amount of oil supply but to pay with Bitcoins
Would they not accept it then?

With all the sanctions and treats of, that's actually what they should looking for: oil for bitcoins.

[RoooooR]

No one cares about Iran.

This is correct. I expected some better news at least.

Iran is one of the most powerful countries. They have:
petrol sources,
natural gas,
nuclear weapons and research units,
And if they regulate bitcoin, America can cry like a babie.


I mean I care 

[Lauda]

Iran is one of the most powerful countries. They have:
petrol sources,
natural gas,
nuclear weapons and research units,
And if they regulate bitcoin, America can cry like a babie.


I mean I care  

Not really.

[genjix]

iran is very important. if they said fuck it and allowed btc trade it would undermine US interests more than their own, but it would loosen the death grip of the suicidal regime.

[gentlemand]

Iran is one of the most powerful countries. They have:
petrol sources,
natural gas,
nuclear weapons and research units,
And if they regulate bitcoin, America can cry like a babie.


I mean I care  

Not really.

I think you've nailed it. I forwarded your posts to the UN and Iranian leadership. They're disbanding the country tomorrow.

[Honeypot]

Because a sanctioned, hostile nation with an attitude problem and worries about internal disunity and loss of political control is going to be friendly to a decentralized, anonymous, and prone-to-theft cryptocurrency that will allow its population a greater degree of strength in dealing against their governmental figures.

On another note, no one gives a fuck about iran - if they do create and detonate a nuclear device, that will spell the end of regional stability and completely possible nuclear war along sectarian and ethnic lines (persians fucking hate arabs and vice versa, shittes and sunnis want to kill each other,etc).

Which will be no one else's problem unless they try to drag others into it by once again, in a typical middle east fashion, blaming the outsiders.

Which will lead to general anti-middle east feelings across the whole world because everyone's got a muslim problem including china and russia, not to mention india.

Iran going against bitcoin is a good sign.

[jbreher]

Jeeze, it's amazing to me that even on this forum dedicated to an alternative currency, people are foaming at the mouth against Iran. All y'all need to find some source of your worldview other than the sanctioned western mass media.

Mossadegh. CIA. Rooseveldt. 1952. Look it up.

[slaveforanunnak1]

Jeeze, it's amazing to me that even on this forum dedicated to an alternative currency, people are foaming at the mouth against Iran. All y'all need to find some source of your worldview other than the sanctioned western mass media.

Mossadegh. CIA. Rooseveldt. 1952. Look it up.

I know right? Am I on the bitcoin forum or NASCAR?
Thats what happens when you get all your news from CNN and Newsweak lulz.
Hey smart guy... Same people who have been bullshitting you about our banking system are the same people who start wars by lying through their teeth for the military industrial complex.

[tkbx]

Do... Do they have computers? Or cell networks?

[semaforo]

   usury can only go one way- an excess in the same denomination- I loan you 5 bushels of wheat, you give me 6 bushels of wheat in 6 months. With bitcoin loans, it can go either way in terms of fiat value. This is volatility, not usury.


   A lot of countries in the middle east imitate the the US and Europe, and do it pretty poorly sometimes. Like the Assad regime noticed that the US could get away with just about anything by saying they are fighting terrorism, so now they adopted the same technique to try to justify massacres in Syria. "The glorious heroes of the Syrian National Army brought three terrorist doctors to justice today, and successfully blockaded a whole terrorist village, ensuring that no terrorist food or medical supplies could reach the terrorists." or "The terrorists were peacefully demonstrating when we shot them because they are terrorists." The terrorists terrorized terrified terrorists who were terribly terroristic for the sake of terrorizing the terror out of the terrorist terrorism- terrible, really, considering the terror caused by terrorism among the terror of t -error t - error t -error t- error t-error beep beep beep beep freedom t - error freedom t-error freedom t-error  gagagagagagaggagaga----

  hey, what did you do to my brain? it was an innocent error te te te te error er or er or er or or er or er or er care bear tear or care bear tear or care bear tear or care bear tear or


care


bear


tear


or care bear terror

 terrorist care bears stormed the white house this morning, giving hugs to zionist bankers. The new world error broke down in tears, realizing the error of their terror, and auctioned the police and military forces of the earth to the highest bitter, a man named Marsupial from the Australian outback of Oakland, California. When asked for a comment, he replied

  "Where are the love?"



   The funny thing is that this post is almost less crazy than the news...

   The banking elite, terrorists, and the masses need to stop all of this enmity and get together and fight their real common enemy, the real threat to the freedom to engineer snow storms in the Sahara- internet memes.

   Sorry about that post- I stayed up past my bed time...
        

[btcxyzzz]

It's the kind of think that could save Iranian Rial, and I don't see why the Iranian Gov would be against it. Iran is religiously controlled not Bank controlled as we are here in Europe.

Banks are controlling _everything_. Everything else you see is just a theater.

[Griegura]

It's the kind of think that could save Iranian Rial, and I don't see why the Iranian Gov would be against it. Iran is religiously controlled not Bank controlled as we are here in Europe.

Banks are controlling _everything_. Everything else you see is just a theater.

Iran is not controlled by american or western banks! that you have to admit!

[sifter]

No one cares about Iran.

That's quite harsh

[RoooooR]

It's the kind of think that could save Iranian Rial, and I don't see why the Iranian Gov would be against it. Iran is religiously controlled not Bank controlled as we are here in Europe.

Banks are controlling _everything_. Everything else you see is just a theater.

Iran is not controlled by american or western banks! that you have to admit!

This is why Obama and EU don't like Iran.

[S4VV4S]

No one cares about Iran.

That's quite harsh

Very ignorant too, especially if he/she is American.
Why do you think the U.S. wanted to go to war with Syria?

[Joshuar]

No one cares about Iran.

I was going to type that exactly. You read my mind.

[nakaone]

afaik iran hast quite a high level of education at least at the top, is full of natural ressources and run by a horrible regime, with horrible economical restrictions. does not seem to be the worst place for bitcoins.

[Lucozade35]

Russia, China and the USA say BTC is not money. So Iran could get around all the sanctions by using the BITRO DOLLAR ! The problem is 120 oligarchs need more than 33% of their Sovereign wealth. China needs to keep building never ending empty cities to inflate GDP and the USA just loves that RESERVE !

[leopard2]

countries that suffer from sanctions should embrace bitcoin

how easy would it be for China to pay Venezuela or Iran with bitcoin ... maybe this is already happening?

[FeedbackLoop]

countries that suffer from sanctions should embrace bitcoin

how easy would it be for China to pay Venezuela or Iran with bitcoin ... maybe this is already happening?

No. Venezuela, Iran and China all have their own oligarchs who benefit from the fractional reserve system in place there.  That takes precedence over allegiance to country.

[bitvestor]

Welcome them with a HUG, better then Russia right? They still thinking of regulating not yet regulating.. And they never said illegal, so their senses is better in this aspect..

[jadehorse]

btc for Iran could be another way for transfering money, like hawala for example. If other countries accept, it of course

[RixDollar]

What would the penalty be for violating their "regulations"? 

[S4VV4S]

What would the penalty be for violating their "regulations"? 

Getting stoned in public, and I don't mean smoking ganja and getting stoned

[Blinken]

Reading these third world pronouncements on bitcoins (or any advanced technology) is always hilarious.

You figure your politicians in the United States are pretty stupid, but it is nothing compared to the stupidity and poor character you find in global backwaters. In places like central Asia, its just one nabob after another constantly looking for some bribe or handout. It's pathetic.

Luckily bitcoins are pretty much immune to these morons, because they don't even own computers much less know how to use them (unless you are counting a cell phone as a computer).

[leopard2]

countries that suffer from sanctions should embrace bitcoin

how easy would it be for China to pay Venezuela or Iran with bitcoin ... maybe this is already happening?

No. Venezuela, Iran and China all have their own oligarchs who benefit from the fractional reserve system in place there.  That takes precedence over allegiance to country.

Yeah isn't that fascinating, how mysteriously the fractional reserve fiat scam is so powerful, that it brings all the governments together no matter how large their differences are?

When it's about exploiting and enslaving people, all governments are on the same page. 

[qiwoman]

I personally think if Iran made Iran Coin or something like that it would gain a lot of support from all their friends and sympathisers. Bitcoin needs al ittle bit of regulation so it doesn't go completely haywire until,a a total transition is made from fiat into a digital currency System. Both Govts, and lay people need time to adjust and proper infrastructure put in place for the free world wide use of BTC.

[farlack]

I personally think if Iran made Iran Coin or something like that it would gain a lot of support from all their friends and sympathisers. Bitcoin needs al ittle bit of regulation so it doesn't go completely haywire until,a a total transition is made from fiat into a digital currency System. Both Govts, and lay people need time to adjust and proper infrastructure put in place for the free world wide use of BTC.

Irans friends and sympathizers? Who? Hezbollah? I think they're the only ones. Probably North Korea also.

[sifter]

No one cares about Iran.

That's quite harsh

Very ignorant too, especially if he/she is American.
Why do you think the U.S. wanted to go to war with Syria?

Pure arrogance that's why.

[zimmah]

The only thing that would interest me from Iran is if they'd accept bitcoin for oil.

Anything else they say or do has little to no effect whatsoever. The country is too small to matter if not for their oil.

Anyway they seem to be positive about bitcoin and actually recognize it as a seriously competing currency. Which could lead to more.

[InwardContour]

I personally think if Iran made Iran Coin or something like that it would gain a lot of support from all their friends and sympathisers. Bitcoin needs al ittle bit of regulation so it doesn't go completely haywire until,a a total transition is made from fiat into a digital currency System. Both Govts, and lay people need time to adjust and proper infrastructure put in place for the free world wide use of BTC.

Irans friends and sympathizers? Who? Hezbollah? I think they're the only ones. Probably North Korea also.

I don't think that North Korea cares very much about Iran.

I do think it will be interesting to see how the situation in Iraq will play out. It should be noted that Iran helped Iraq (and the US) by sending fighters into Iraq to fight off the militia that is trying to overtake the Iraq government.

The only real issue that the US has with Iran is it's nuclear weapons program. If we can get past our differences about the nuclear program by Iran helping out in Iraq then Iran could potentially become a very useful ally to the US.

This is speculation, but if it were to happen it could potentially provide some stability to the middle east. If it does not happen then eventually another war will break out in the area between the US and Iran.

[jaberwock]

No one cares about Iran.

Iran is one of the largest oil producers in the world. It have a population of almost 80 million. Iran is considered as Regional Superpower in the Middle East, Iran is very influential in Iraq, Syria and Lebanon. I even think that Iran is controlling those countries. And Iran is one of the country that openly oppose to Western Influence.

In theory Iran can start accepting bitcoin to get around those sanctions impose by western countries. Those bank accounts can easily get frozen unlike bitcoin which is immune. They don't have to carry tons of gold or dollars to trade with Iran.

[rext]

I personally think if Iran made Iran Coin or something like that it would gain a lot of support from all their friends and sympathisers. Bitcoin needs al ittle bit of regulation so it doesn't go completely haywire until,a a total transition is made from fiat into a digital currency System. Both Govts, and lay people need time to adjust and proper infrastructure put in place for the free world wide use of BTC.

Irans friends and sympathizers? Who? Hezbollah? I think they're the only ones. Probably North Korea also.

I don't think that North Korea cares very much about Iran.

I do think it will be interesting to see how the situation in Iraq will play out. It should be noted that Iran helped Iraq (and the US) by sending fighters into Iraq to fight off the militia that is trying to overtake the Iraq government.

The only real issue that the US has with Iran is it's nuclear weapons program. If we can get past our differences about the nuclear program by Iran helping out in Iraq then Iran could potentially become a very useful ally to the US.

This is speculation, but if it were to happen it could potentially provide some stability to the middle east. If it does not happen then eventually another war will break out in the area between the US and Iran.

Hope there won't be any war, Iraq vs US was bad enough.

[InwardContour]

I personally think if Iran made Iran Coin or something like that it would gain a lot of support from all their friends and sympathisers. Bitcoin needs al ittle bit of regulation so it doesn't go completely haywire until,a a total transition is made from fiat into a digital currency System. Both Govts, and lay people need time to adjust and proper infrastructure put in place for the free world wide use of BTC.

Irans friends and sympathizers? Who? Hezbollah? I think they're the only ones. Probably North Korea also.

I don't think that North Korea cares very much about Iran.

I do think it will be interesting to see how the situation in Iraq will play out. It should be noted that Iran helped Iraq (and the US) by sending fighters into Iraq to fight off the militia that is trying to overtake the Iraq government.

The only real issue that the US has with Iran is it's nuclear weapons program. If we can get past our differences about the nuclear program by Iran helping out in Iraq then Iran could potentially become a very useful ally to the US.

This is speculation, but if it were to happen it could potentially provide some stability to the middle east. If it does not happen then eventually another war will break out in the area between the US and Iran.

Hope there won't be any war, Iraq vs US was bad enough.

This is why a Iran/US partnership would be such a good thing. IMO it would be a long shot at best.

[bryant.coleman]

Iran is one of the largest oil producers in the world. It have a population of almost 80 million. Iran is considered as Regional Superpower in the Middle East, Iran is very influential in Iraq, Syria and Lebanon. I even think that Iran is controlling those countries. And Iran is one of the country that openly oppose to Western Influence.

In theory Iran can start accepting bitcoin to get around those sanctions impose by western countries. Those bank accounts can easily get frozen unlike bitcoin which is immune. They don't have to carry tons of gold or dollars to trade with Iran.

There are very few Bitcoin users in Iran. Have you ever seen any Persian Bitcoin users here in bitcointalk.org? Even the net usage is minimal in Iran. Bitcoin adoption has to grow a lot there, before we can even consider proposing BTC for the oil payments.

[jaberwock]

Iran is one of the largest oil producers in the world. It have a population of almost 80 million. Iran is considered as Regional Superpower in the Middle East, Iran is very influential in Iraq, Syria and Lebanon. I even think that Iran is controlling those countries. And Iran is one of the country that openly oppose to Western Influence.

In theory Iran can start accepting bitcoin to get around those sanctions impose by western countries. Those bank accounts can easily get frozen unlike bitcoin which is immune. They don't have to carry tons of gold or dollars to trade with Iran.

There are very few Bitcoin users in Iran. Have you ever seen any Persian Bitcoin users here in bitcointalk.org? Even the net usage is minimal in Iran. Bitcoin adoption has to grow a lot there, before we can even consider proposing BTC for the oil payments.

Even if there is no bitcoin users in Iran, if Iran government started using bitcoins to evade sanctions it is still a big factor and the transactions can easily worth in billions enough to raise the bitcoin price to 4,000 usd - 10,000 usd per bitcoin.

[bryant.coleman]

Even if there is no bitcoin users in Iran, if Iran government started using bitcoins to evade sanctions it is still a big factor and the transactions can easily worth in billions enough for bitcoin price to reach 4,000 usd - 10,000 usd per bitcoin.

There are practical difficulties in using Bitcoin for such huge amounts. Suppose lets imagine that Iran is getting paid with Bitcoin. Now they need to convert these coins to fiat, so that they could import consumer goods from China and Russia. But those nations accept only CNY, RUR or USD. How they will exchange BTC to USD?

[Cenenigo]

Bitcoin is desperately needed there. They won't be able to hold out hedging dollars against their rial for much longer.

[Cenenigo]

Bitcoin is desperately needed there. They won't be able to hold out hedging dollars against their rial for much longer.

[Jubettarr]

Bitcoin is desperately needed there. They won't be able to hold out hedging dollars against their rial for much longer.

Can you elaborate? I don't understand why the rial hedging vs the dollar is necessary and why Iran won't be able to do it much longer.