Help Me Recover "Lost" BTC Sent to Bestmixer.io (25% Recovery Fee)

[patrickrandy]

Summary:
* I was seeking to tumble BTC acquired from coinbase with bestmixer.io (about $260)
* I inadvertently sent the coins to the bestmixer.io public address and not the designated (transaction-specific) mixing address in the instruction.
* When I discovered this and identified the transaction, Bestmixer.io said they can only give the funds back if I can prove that I was the one that sent the coins.
* To do this, they said I need to digitally sign a message to them with the same address originally used to Send.
* Unfortunately, I cannot do this with the GreenAddress wallet.
* Per their FAQ the GreenAddress wallet uses a multisignature format; it does not permit re-signing of a Send transaction, and each new transaction creates a new address
 
Questions:
* Might there be a way for me to digitally sign the prior Send Transaction?
* Might there be any other way for me to prove that I (and not someone else) initiated this prior Send transaction?
* Any other ideas that might help?

Offer:
I'm happy to pay someone who can recover the funds a 25% recovery fee (about $65)
Please post publicly or PM me if you think you can help.
I will then share additional information in private.

[1715114205]

1715114205

[1715114205]

1715114205

[patrickrandy]

I appreciate the effort to help Royce...
Thus far, the only reply I received from GreenAddress suggests that I wouldn't have all the keys to do this (i.e., as suggested by quintuple):

"Your question is answered in our Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) document which you can
> > find at h̲t̲t̲ps̲://gr̲e̲e̲n̲a̲d̲d̲r̲e̲s̲s̲.i̲t̲/f̲a̲q:
> > Please see the section "Is it possible to sign arbitrary messages to prove ownership of
> > GreenAddress 2of2 accounts?" specifically, although we suggest you read the entire FAQ as
> > it contains a lot of useful information about the service.
> > To explain the reasoning, the answer is no because our wallet uses a multisignature format
> > that offers extra security.
"

Note that I've asked bestmixer.io repeatedly to return the funds.
The transaction hash is readily seen in all the BTC explorer views
But they just said unless I can digitally sign with the same address (which I can't because of the multi-sig wallet) they aren't going to budge.

? I'm wondering if bitmixer.io is being unreasonably difficult, uncooperative or even disingenuous in denying this transaction ?
It is so exceedingly unlikely they would randomly have gotten this $260 (to their public address) right after I'd initiated the mixing
transaction. Even if not provable with 100% certainty, they could easily deduce that it's highly likely that I initiated this send.
(And this is especially true if one looks at traffic pattern to their public address - where this transaction is an outlier)

If anyone can think of something to do next -and wants to take a deeper dive - I will share all the details privately.
My recovery offer still applies

[AB de Royse777]

I appreciate the effort to help Royce...
Thus far, the only reply I received from GreenAddress suggests that I wouldn't have all the keys to do this - as indicated by quintuple:

"Your question is answered in our Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) document which you can
> > find at h̲t̲t̲ps̲://gr̲e̲e̲n̲a̲d̲d̲r̲e̲s̲s̲.i̲t̲/f̲a̲q:
> > Please see the section "Is it possible to sign arbitrary messages to prove ownership of
> > GreenAddress 2of2 accounts?" specifically, although we suggest you read the entire FAQ as
> > it contains a lot of useful information about the service.
> > To explain the reasoning, the answer is no because our wallet uses a multisignature format
> > that offers extra security.
"

Ok make sense bud.

Note that I've asked bestmixer.io repeatedly to return the funds.
The transaction hash is readily seen in all the BTC explorer views
But they keep says that unless I can digitally sign with the same address (which I can't because of the multi-sig wallet) they aren't going to budge.

? I'm wondering if bitmixer.io is being unreasonably difficult, uncooperative or even disingenuous in denying this transaction ?
It is so exceedingly unlikely they would randomly have gotten this $260 (to their public address) right after I'd initiated the mixing
transaction. Even if not provable with 100% certainty, they could easily deduce that it's highly likely that I initiated this send.
(And this is especially true if one looks at traffic pattern to their public address - where this transaction is an outlier)

If something has some ideas on what to do next -and wants to take a deeper dive I will share all the details privately.
My recovery offer still applies

I do not see bitmixer.io should have any problem to send the funds back from the wallet it came from. This might be an unnecessary to push it further. I would suggest to create an Scam Accusations against them.

Follow this format when you create the topic:

Code:

[b][color=black]What happened:: [/color][/b]

[b][color=black]Scammers Profile Link: [/color][/b]

[b][color=black]Reference Link: [/color][/b]
[b][color=black]Amount Scammed: [/color][/b]
[b][color=black]Payment Method: [/color][/b]
[b][color=black]Proof of Payment: [/color][/b]
[b][color=black]PM/Chat Logs: [/color][/b]
[b][color=black]Additional Notes: [/color][/b]

Copy and paste it in new thread then fill all data.

This is there ANN topic: [ANN] BITMIXER.IO ✰ High Volume Bitcoin Mixer ✰
This is the user: BITMIXER.IO
Here is a little problem is that the user is not active anymore however I think this scam accusation will help you to get the funds back. Because this will harm their reputation if you are correct.

[patrickrandy]

I do not see bitmixer.io should have any problem to send the funds back from the wallet it came from. This might be an unnecessary to push it further. I would suggest to create an Scam Accusations against them.

Royse:
? Just to be clear, is it fair to say that Bestmixer.io has no logical reason to refuse to simply return the funds back to the original send address (i.e., effect a reversal of the transaction?).  Are we fairly certain there aren't technical obstacles (due to the multi-sig wallet)?
Also, am I fairly confident there would not be any process or logical concerns?
(I mean plausible concerns that they could claim to object to the reversal transaction)

Just playing devils advocate for them (against myself) before going off to file the scam report.

Thanks for the input

[AB de Royse777]

Royse:
? Just to be clear, is it fair to say that Bestmixer.io has no logical reason to refuse to simply return the funds back to the original send address (i.e., effect a reversal of the transaction?).  Are we fairly certain there aren't technical obstacles (due to the multi-sig wallet)?
~snip~

I do not see any technical obstacles here.

If A and B are two Bitcoin address and coin has sent from A to B then the same coin (minus tx fee obviously) can be send back to address A from address B. There should not be any difficulty despite any of them are multiSig, or segwit or legacy or anything else.

I do not see any logical reason for Bestmixer.io to refuse the return.

You are welcome bud and happy to help you to find the ways to resolve the issue.

[Pffrt]

If A and B are two Bitcoin address and coin has sent from A to B then the same coin (minus tx fee obviously) can be send back to address A from address B. There should not be any difficulty despite any of them are multiSig, or segwit or legacy or anything else.

I do not see any logical reason for Bestmixer.io to refuse the return.

If I understand correctly, OP has sent BTC using coinbase. Now, even if bestmixer sent BTC back to that address, OP will not receive that BTC.

[AB de Royse777]

~snip~
If I understand correctly, OP has sent BTC using coinbase. Now, even if bestmixer sent BTC back to that address, OP will not receive that BTC.

OP used GreenAddress wallet (I never used that before, I have no idea).

By the way, this is really worse case scenario. If someone use coinbase (I am not sure how coinbase works) or any other exchange then this reverse back the transaction is not gonna work.

[patrickrandy]

~snip~
If I understand correctly, OP has sent BTC using coinbase. Now, even if bestmixer sent BTC back to that address, OP will not receive that BTC.

OP used GreenAddress wallet (I never used that before, I have no idea).

By the way, this is really worse case scenario. If someone use coinbase (I am not sure how coinbase works) or any other exchange then this reverse back the transaction is not gonna work.

Yes. I used the GreenAddress wallet for this transaction.

Before submitting the scam report, here is another "out of box" idea that occurred to me:
[ I can propose this IF bestmixer.io continues to insist that it needs 100% proof that I'm the source.  And I can suggest this whether they are taking this position sincerely or not ]

My idea to resolve is to provide remote access to my computer and/or simply provide the credentials/ownership of my wallet.
I don't have any other significant funds in this wallet (maybe $40) and the entire transaction history is less than a month with minimal transactions.
(This would probably have to been done via a third party escrow agent)
And of course, I would disconnect / air-gap my main data drive or even re-image my computer for security.

[AB de Royse777]

~snip~

Before submitting the scam report, here is another "out of box" idea that occurred to me:
[ I can propose this IF bestmixer.io continues to insist that it needs 100% proof that I'm the source.  And I can suggest this whether they are taking this position sincerely or not ]

My idea to resolve is to provide remote access to my computer and/or simply provide the credentials/ownership of my wallet.
I don't have any other significant funds in this wallet (maybe $40) and the entire transaction history is less than a month with minimal transactions.
(This would probably have to been done via a third party escrow agent)
And of course, I would disconnect / air-gap my main data drive or even re-image my computer for security.

Don't do this. Do not give access to anyone of your computer. Even though you do not have significant amount of money but giving away wallet information basically takes everything away from your hand.

Create the scam accusations and see their responses. Also let them know the link of the scam accusations page. There will be other forum members as well who will give you advice but I am sure no one will tell you to give your wallet credentials.

If returning the balance to the address where it came from gives you your Bitcoin back then bestmixer.io should return it. I do not see any issue there.

[Zadicar]

~snip~

Before submitting the scam report, here is another "out of box" idea that occurred to me:
[ I can propose this IF bestmixer.io continues to insist that it needs 100% proof that I'm the source.  And I can suggest this whether they are taking this position sincerely or not ]

My idea to resolve is to provide remote access to my computer and/or simply provide the credentials/ownership of my wallet.
I don't have any other significant funds in this wallet (maybe $40) and the entire transaction history is less than a month with minimal transactions.
(This would probably have to been done via a third party escrow agent)
And of course, I would disconnect / air-gap my main data drive or even re-image my computer for security.

Don't do this. Do not give access to anyone of your computer. Even though you do not have significant amount of money but giving away wallet information basically takes everything away from your hand.

Create the scam accusations and see their responses. Also let them know the link of the scam accusations page. There will be other forum members as well who will give you advice but I am sure no one will tell you to give your wallet credentials.

If returning the balance to the address where it came from gives you your Bitcoin back then bestmixer.io should return it. I do not see any issue there.

This is really the hard part when using up some wallets and making some transactions which would involved reversions. I do understand on the side of Bestmixer since it is just always been
part of security measure.
If all things been explained to them about on your wallet situation been wondering why they wont still give those coins back.

[patrickrandy]

This is really the hard part when using up some wallets and making some transactions which would involved reversions. I do understand on the side of Bestmixer since it is just always been
part of security measure.
If all things been explained to them about on your wallet situation been wondering why they wont still give those coins back.

I appreciate the help Zadicar and Royce...My further communications with Bestmixer.io:

2019-02-26 19:28 Support
If you cannot confirm that you are the owner of the address from which you sent, how can we send them to you? Then maybe we should send all the funds that came to our address? Why not

We can't just trust your words. If the sender's address really belongs to you, it is possible to prove this with a digital signature.

All coins that we receive as a donate will be spent on charity. Unfortunately, if these coins were really sent by you by mistake and you cannot confirm this, you may know that they were spent on good deeds.

Best regards,
BestMixer Team

Randy Patrick  2019-02-26 20:08File is uploaded
Here is the transaction hash { *************** }. I'm also attaching 3 images that show this in the context of my wallet. Thank you for your prompt attention.

***Are you technically able to just send back to the originating transaction?*** I just read your email. I don't believe you are providing me with a genuine answer to resolve this issue. CONSIDER: If I am being truthful (LIKELY - and I know you believe that I am being truthful), and you send it back to the originating address, then everything is right again and you've established that you are a trustworthy service that doesn't exploit other people's mistakes. ALTERNATIVELY, if I am a scammer (UNLIKELY - and I'm happy to fully-reveal my identity at your request) and you simply send funds back to the originating address), then the WORST case scenario is that whomever sent the funds just simply got them back again. SO give the likelihood's of each of those realities and the outcomes, it's pretty obvious that sending back the funds to the original address is the right thing to do. Thank you.

Randy Patrick  2019-02-26 20:27
***Correction: "Are you technically able to send funds to the original transaction address?"***

[patrickrandy]

UPDATE:

As advised here by Royce and Zadicar, the definitive answer from GreenAddress tech support is that:
YES. The funds would be properly sent to my wallet - if bestmixer.io initiates a send back to the same address

I communicated this to bestmixer.io as follows:

Bestmixer.io: Per GreenAddress, I've confirmed that funds will be properly returned to me if you send to the original transaction address. Thus, you can assure return to the rightful owners and there is NOT a logical reason that you need me to sign this address (which is not technically feasible). Per GreenAddress support:

" In that case, if that is indeed your address, and they simple send back to that address > then it will arrive in your wallet. > In your case I think your transaction is this one: > > https://blockstream.info/tx/***************************************** > > This has a single input, spending from a UTXO with address > **********************************, which you say belongs to your wallet*. > > In that case, if that is indeed your address, and they simple send back to that address > then it will arrive in your wallet. > > Does that answer the question? > > Rick "

Now the ball is in their court to act with integrity. Bestmixer has no legitimate reason to not resolve this situation.

[Pffrt]

In case bestmixer doesn't refund it, creating a scam accusation will be the best. I hope you get back all of your money.

[AB de Royse777]

UPDATE:

As advised here by Royce and Zadicar, the definitive answer from GreenAddress tech support is that:
YES. The funds would be properly sent to my wallet - if bestmixer.io initiates a send back to the same address

I communicated this to bestmixer.io as follows:

Bestmixer.io: Per GreenAddress, I've confirmed that funds will be properly returned to me if you send to the original transaction address. Thus, you can assure return to the rightful owners and there is NOT a logical reason that you need me to sign this address (which is not technically feasible). Per GreenAddress support:

" In that case, if that is indeed your address, and they simple send back to that address > then it will arrive in your wallet. > In your case I think your transaction is this one: > > https://blockstream.info/tx/***************************************** > > This has a single input, spending from a UTXO with address > **********************************, which you say belongs to your wallet*. > > In that case, if that is indeed your address, and they simple send back to that address > then it will arrive in your wallet. > > Does that answer the question? > > Rick "

Now the ball is in their court to act with integrity. Bestmixer has no legitimate reason to not resolve this situation.

This sounds good. Feel free to post an update once you hear back from them.
By the way, it's Royse not Royce

Cheers :-)

[patrickrandy]

RESOLVED:

Bestmixer.io sent me back my BTC today.


My lessons here:

ME:
* Always carefully read transfer instructions and double-check and trip check-addresses for Send or Receive.
* I need to learn more about wallets. GreenAddress support was great. But not being able to digitally sign with the previously-used address is a limitation.  
(The multi-signature config has positives too - I need to learn more)


BESTMIXER.IO
* My experience does NOT indicate bestmixer.io are scammers
* However, their support didn't seem to care that much about getting me my funds back
* Moreover, bestmixer.io might have been leaning towards profiting from my mistake rather than trying to solve the problem (in my view).

I don't say this lightly:
--- Their service is a highly sophisticated technical operation.
--- They could have understood and acknowledged why I couldn't digitally sign with the original address (instead of repeatedly telling me over and over again that they can't do anything unless I digitally sign that way)
--- Or they could have simply offered in the beginning to send back to the original address
--- Or (if they really believed I was a scammer) they could have (blindly or otherwise) sent a token amount to the address (with a "secret" memo) with challenge to me to know what was in the memo. THEN, they would know for sure if I was real or not.
(i.e., financial institutions linking to other financial institutions do this all the time - they make tiny deposits to your account so you can verify you are the account-holder).

Of course I asked repeatedly about any other ways for me to prove my identity with the transaction.

I'm going to send them the link to this thread and they respond as they see fit

Thanks everyone for all the help -Zadicar, Pffrt - and Royse in particular
(Sending him a PM)

[AB de Royse777]

RESOLVED:

Bestmixer.io sent me back my BTC today.

So happy to learn it bud.

My lessons here:

ME:
* Always carefully read transfer instructions and double-check and trip check-addresses for Send or Receive.
* I need to learn more about wallets. GreenAddress support was great. But not being able to digitally sign with the previously-used address is a limitation.  
(The multi-signature config has positives too - I need to learn more)

I would like to add:
If the fund is in a multiSig wallet then move the amount you want to send to a standard wallet that allows to sign a message if necessary in future. Then send the fund from the standard wallet to the desire wallet you want. I understand for small amount transaction the hard work does not worth but I will do it for large transactions.

Thanks everyone for all the help -Zadicar, Pffrt - and Royse in particular

It's my pleasure. See you around bud.

[AB de Royse777]

My feedback to patrickrandy, I was unable to post it in his feedback page.

Blown away by the users kindness. He needed help to get his fund back from Bestmixer.io and offered to pay someone who can recover the funds a 25% recovery fee  (about $65).

I was volunteering to help him without expecting anything in return but I did post my btc address without any hope in my wild dream. People come to this platform but eventually they leave when they get what they ask for. Very few occasion people like patrickrandy keeps their words.

He sent me the compensation he was promised.

Thanks for the manner bud.

Edit:
Feedback page: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=2549686