Is 110V mining going away?

[DaveF]

OK with all the new Bitmain units coming with power supplies that are 220V only.
The new Canaan A10 are 220V only
Whatsminer is 220V

So it looks like in the US having a miner or 2 at home is going away if you don't want to or can't run 220.
Even small data centers (in the US again) are 110V only now. The larger data centers are fine, but a lot of the smaller ones are designed for PCs / servers that are 110V

I would love to see more R4 type machines, built with newer chips, but I think that is just a wish that is not going to get fulfilled.

Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

-Dave

[1714011894]

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[1714011894]

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[PassThePopcorn]

We're getting to the point where mining just needs a bunch of power to run anything worth running. Yes there are some smaller less power hungry machines being made but those are more geared toward hobbiests(? spelling) while they might be similar in efficiency the hashrates make it so you barely earn anything. To get to a hashrate that you actually make a decent earning per machine you just need more power.

The US is one of a few countries that houses are for the most part just 110, and even then most houses have 220 installed (think your dryer), you can get more 220 breakers into your house by getting an electrician and having some rewiring done.

If a DC in the US isn't using 220 they are fairly dumb, power efficiency is usually better at the higher voltage and most electronics are ok up to 240.

[Steamtyme]

I can't say I considered it a problem. When I started in 2017, I just automatically went with 220v I had one circuit in place and did a quick wire up of another in the garage. I know some can't manage that in say an apartment, but if your home is maxed and can't manage another 220v circuit, it's probably time to take a long hard look at your electrical infrastructure anyways.

Those smaller data centers I imagine could upgrade if that's what they wanted to do for hosting, that or exclusively deal in hosting other rigs.

The one upside for anyone who still may need to use 110 is Canaan. There 1041 is supposed to have 2 options 1 with PSU, and 1 without. So presumably people could get away with the 2 PSU's on separate 110 circuits. The options will be limited though in getting the newer miners because they all seem to be moving towards high power consumption for high hashrate; as opposed to smaller efficient machines. The last ones announced never materialized.

I would love to see more R4 type machines, built with newer chips, but I think that is just a wish that is not going to get fulfilled.

This would be nice, I never had one but heard when they worked they were great. Unfortunately it doesn't make sense for manufacturers to cater to the home miner anymore; if they did a run of something like this I imagine the price would be ridiculously expensive in Cost/TH.

[NotFuzzyWarm]

If a DC in the US isn't using 220 they are fairly dumb, power efficiency is usually better at the higher voltage and most electronics are ok up to 240.

Agreed. All aspects of power distribution demand using a high line (208-240VAC). From cost of wiring, capacity/size of breaker panels used, etc there are many disadvantages to using 110VAC for any commercial installation.

[DaveF]

The US is one of a few countries that houses are for the most part just 110, and even then most houses have 220 installed (think your dryer), you can get more 220 breakers into your house by getting an electrician and having some rewiring done.

Yes, the US is one of the few 110 places. I just happen to live here so...
220 in many locations is not as common as some people think. The condo I live in now is 110 only. Even in the entire community, Condos, town homes & full detached houses the master plan is all 110. It's happening more and more if you have gas for the dryer / oven / stove / etc. 220 was not needed. Actually a bit of an issue now with a lot of people getting electric cars and then dealing with pulling in 220 from the street.

If a DC in the US isn't using 220 they are fairly dumb, power efficiency is usually better at the higher voltage and most electronics are ok up to 240.

Billing reasons. Racks come with 20A of power. Then in the small print 110V.
Yeah, it's scummy but what can you do.....

This would be nice, I never had one but heard when they worked they were great. Unfortunately it doesn't make sense for manufacturers to cater to the home miner anymore; if they did a run of something like this I imagine the price would be ridiculously expensive in Cost/TH.

True, but a know a lot of people who used them for space heaters during the winter.
You can either turn power to heat with 0 Th with your space heater ot turn power into heat with 8.6Th with your R4

Cost to run is about the same :-)

-Dave

[HagssFIN]

Your information about Avalon A1041 being a 220V only -device is wrong.

There will be an option to use your own psu (12VDC output) or the integrated i2c controlled psu (higher voltage, maybe 16-20VDC output) .

Also, the miner settings will be quite flexible,
allowing low power or high power performance.

[PassThePopcorn]

Yes, the US is one of the few 110 places. I just happen to live here so...
220 in many locations is not as common as some people think. The condo I live in now is 110 only. Even in the entire community, Condos, town homes & full detached houses the master plan is all 110. It's happening more and more if you have gas for the dryer / oven / stove / etc. 220 was not needed. Actually a bit of an issue now with a lot of people getting electric cars and then dealing with pulling in 220 from the street.

I live there also, and yeah I know condos / apartments don't have it. My belief on this is fairly simple, the condo / apartment companies don't want any issues with dumb people mistakenly plugging in a device that isn't rated for 240 into a 240 plug. I've seen people forget to flip the 110 to 240 switch on a PSU and then plug it into a 240 outlet even after being told make sure x switch is set to 240.

I've seen the same thing with a 110v surge protector going into a 240 outlet. etc etc.

From a business owner / landlords perspective it's easier and safer to not give the option.

As for those small DC's, I still think they're dumb. As to what you can do, not host there and tell them your reason is they don't have 240v like most others. They either get on board with 240 or get left in the dust.

[sidehack]

This would be nice, I never had one but heard when they worked they were great. Unfortunately it doesn't make sense for manufacturers to cater to the home miner anymore; if they did a run of something like this I imagine the price would be ridiculously expensive in Cost/TH.

At least one manufacturer caters exclusively to the home miner, but you're not wrong about the cost/TH being too high. Work in progress.

[Steamtyme]

True, but a know a lot of people who used them for space heaters during the winter.
You can either turn power to heat with 0 Th with your space heater ot turn power into heat with 8.6Th with your R4

Cost to run is about the same :-)
-Dave

I know all about that. The winter mining setup is what I did in my home and will keep at it. Even at it's earliest I did go with a new 220 in the house because I had panel space. I think now is when people should be looking for older gear, especially if they fall into that 110V problem.

It may just be that if you are stuck on 110V you would have to resign yourself to a seasonal miner, or go with Canaan for something competitive.

At least one manufacturer caters exclusively to the home miner, but you're not wrong about the cost/TH being too high. Work in progress.

You're right I was actually just about to go search for the thread. I have to admit I haven't read it in a while. Even thought it's not for me at the moment, I still think it's an awesome venture.

[DaveF]

At least one manufacturer caters exclusively to the home miner, but you're not wrong about the cost/TH being too high. Work in progress.

Heh, and I own just about everything you sell. Have a 606 on order.

Your information about Avalon A1041 being a 220V only -device is wrong.

There will be an option to use your own psu (12VDC output) or the integrated i2c controlled psu (higher voltage, maybe 16-20VDC output) .

Also, the miner settings will be quite flexible,
allowing low power or high power performance.

Where did you see that? I only saw the built in psu option, but I was looking quickly.

-Dave

[sidehack]

If the rest of the year's plans pan out, which mostly hinges on the success of the R606, I might finally get that S1/S3/S5 refit kit built. The S3 was pretty much the last full-scale miner designed to be quiet so hopefully a lot of them still exist to be upgraded.

I think a lot of gear is now coming with built-in PSUs because power supplies in the required power range aren't readily available at quantity, and if the PSU is integrated with the controller, board-level string voltages can be adjusted without an inline regulator which gives a 5-10% efficiency bump in the overall machine.

[NotFuzzyWarm]

Where did you see that? I only saw the built in psu option, but I was looking quickly.
-Dave

In the A10 thread, near the end of Steve's post https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5125803.msg50614112#msg50614112.

[HagssFIN]

In the A10 thread, near the end of Steve's post https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5125803.msg50614112#msg50614112

Yep there has been a lot of cool talk in the thread.

[philipma1957]

one of the new pangolin miners will have a low watt option under 800 watts

not sure what psu they will attach to it.

but if you run it at low power  and use a step up transformer it will be decent on low power setting since it will pull under 800 watts.

this would run the new m21s 31th model on low power setting

https://www.zoro.com/acme-electric-transformer-15kva-240vac-480vac-t253011s/i/G0683277/

and if you never did high setting this item would last for years.

[OgNasty]

It would be nice if they'd stop selling miners with PSUs attached.  I get that it probably reduces wacky warranty issues among other things, but some of us have been buying PSUs to power all the older devices they sold us for years that are now collecting dust.

[philipma1957]

It would be nice if they'd stop selling miners with PSUs attached.  I get that it probably reduces wacky warranty issues among other things, but some of us have been buying PSUs to power all the older devices they sold us for years that are now collecting dust.

Many people have setup farms designed around the s9  so it is a hassle  see linked post he is setup to mine  s9's  built a separation wall and all.

[Artemis3]

one of the new pangolin miners will have a low watt option under 800 watts

not sure what psu they will attach to it.

but if you run it at low power  and use a step up transformer it will be decent on low power setting since it will pull under 800 watts.

this would run the new m21s 31th model on low power setting

https://www.zoro.com/acme-electric-transformer-15kva-240vac-480vac-t253011s/i/G0683277/

and if you never did high setting this item would last for years.

Hmm rather than a step up transformer it would make more sense to use a couple of "110v" PSUs (on separate circuits). The asics actually just want either 12v or 20v DC.

Or a much simpler method is get an used miner with one or two damaged boards, take them out and use the working remaining with a "110v" PSU. The R4 was more or less like an S9 with 2 instead of three boards. An M10 with 2 boards or an M20 with a single board how much power would it need in "low power" mode? Possibly low enough for the biggest "110v" psu to handle.

Of course I'd like a newer R4, mine is ironically plugged to 208v from two "110v" phases. I also had hopes for Canaan Creative with their "mining" TVs and Routers.

[DaveF]

If the rest of the year's plans pan out, which mostly hinges on the success of the R606, I might finally get that S1/S3/S5 refit kit built. The S3 was pretty much the last full-scale miner designed to be quiet so hopefully a lot of them still exist to be upgraded.

I think a lot of gear is now coming with built-in PSUs because power supplies in the required power range aren't readily available at quantity, and if the PSU is integrated with the controller, board-level string voltages can be adjusted without an inline regulator which gives a 5-10% efficiency bump in the overall machine.

I wonder how many S1/3/5 style units are still around vs the S9 / T9 type ones.

With the fans running @ low speed (not actually enough to cool the stock miners) they are fairly quiet. I have 2 "1 board" S9 units that are quiet enough for home use with the fan speed dropped to almost nothing. Not unlike what Artemis3 said. But it's only doing 4TH. If I make it a 2 board 8TH unit it gets loud again. If you can get 8TH or 10TH with 2 or 3 boards that are more efficient so you can keep the fans running slow and quiet you would probably sell every one you could build.

Just my view.

-Dave