Bitmain Bitcoin mining equipment is expensive

[TimtheYoutuber]

Watch this quick 1-minute video on Bitmain's mining: https://youtu.be/OYCz2S6Nn14

I think for most people they see bitcoin mining as "free money". However, its almost always nonprofitable unless you have the perfect operation with older equipment that is expensed, and have cheap electricity/labor.

You're better off just investing in Bitcoin and then selling if it goes up for a profit, instead of mining bitcoin and getting liquidated when the price doesn't skyrocket.

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[TimtheYoutuber]

This is more of a scene that would be in a full episode of a cryptocurrency cartoon. But what do you guys think about it? Do you think Bitmain or mining equipment in general costs too much?

[MakeMoneyBtc]

This is more of a scene that would be in a full episode of a cryptocurrency cartoon. But what do you guys think about it? Do you think Bitmain or mining equipment in general costs too much?

Honestly I don't know much about bitcoin or cryptocurrencies mining in general but I guess Bitmain equipment cost so much because they are a top company in mining equipment which produces high quality products. Just like Samsung or IPhone phones are a lot more expensive than Chinese phones even though their performances are the same, I think the same thing applies here.

[bitcoin31]

Im not a miner and it is logic once you see that miner is expensive maybe you will not buy it but maybe the quality of the that mining equipment is better to other mining you can buy it if you want. Try to search again what mining equipment who are Cheaper value and the quality is still good. But once you have plan for mining you will need to have Big capital for that.

Mining is really expensive way to earn or to get bitcoin or the altcoins but there's a lot of people who become millionaire because of that and maybe someday you will be that too if you what you do, because mining is not easy you need time and enough knowledge to do that.

[BurgerCash]

Well, there's supply and there's demand. There's currently places on earth with extremely low electricity costs, and it makes sense that they'll be the only ones where Bitcoin mining is BARELY profitable. For most of us, purchasing equipment from Bitmain makes no sense.

[MakeMoneyBtc]

Im not a miner and it is logic once you see that miner is expensive maybe you will not buy it but maybe the quality of the that mining equipment is better to other mining you can buy it if you want. Try to search again what mining equipment who are Cheaper value and the quality is still good. But once you have plan for mining you will need to have Big capital for that.

Mining is really expensive way to earn or to get bitcoin or the altcoins but there's a lot of people who become millionaire because of that and maybe someday you will be that too if you what you do, because mining is not easy you need time and enough knowledge to do that.

The most important thing in mining is probably capital because right now mining has become a lot harder than 3-4 years ago. You would have to invest as much as you would invest in a medium business in order to be able to get some constant profits so this is obviously not for everyone. People who want to open a mining business are looking for quality and they are probably ready to pay for it and that's why big mining companies have taken advantage of that and increased their prices for equipment.

[alina345]

Bitmain owns a monopoly, however dedicated ASIC hardware is not easy to make, nor is it cheap. Also the miners become slow and out of date every few years, so they need to make a profit.

Only if you have the space, and infrastructure would owning a Bitcoin farm would be a worthwhile investment.

[Artemis3]

Bitmain owns a monopoly, however dedicated ASIC hardware is not easy to make, nor is it cheap. Also the miners become slow and out of date every few years, so they need to make a profit.

Only if you have the space, and infrastructure would owning a Bitcoin farm would be a worthwhile investment.

Its not a complete monopoly, they do have (weak) competition but its there: MicroBT, Canaan, Innosilicon, etc.

Late model miners are expensive, indeed 1500 USD for a late 40T+ model, but you can get an old S9 13Tish model for about 145USD. This is the same Asic miner than in Dec 2017 (yeah, when bitcoin peaked its price to nearly 20k) used to cost 3000 USD.

Still the most important factor is the electricity price. Even is someone gifts you the miner, running it can be too expensive, so you have to think of ways of lowering the electricity first and think about hashrate second. For example, a down-clocked S9 producing just 10T is more efficient than the same miner running at 16T, the watts per terahash factor is critical to lower your power bill costs. An S9 started consuming 100W per T produced, but its now possible to make it consume just 80W per T. Of course a late model miner is already consuming under 60W per T, but those are more expensive.

A farm is a complete separate beast, and i think the lower the profitability the smaller they will become, especially when it becomes unprofitable to mine in any country (including mine).

[pooya87]

it is simply lack of competition that causes all this. last year despite the drops we saw a lot of interest from different companies in multiple countries like Japan show a lot of interest in getting into producing bitcoin mining equipment. then out of nowhere a social drama started about bitcoin's energy waste and switch to POS which might have even scared some of them off. and that is what we get as a result of it...

what we need is serious encouragement of others to get in ASIC production and that will improve everything from price and quality to decentralization which is more important than anything else.

[kamBlanV]

good video.  yea. mining equipment is very expensive. and we see that today BTC is very rare, every hash and block will have to be solved with very expensive equipment. but today mining with a CPU, GPU and FPGA is not recommended, because it will only make electricity costs expensive. I prefer to mine using ASIC or Avalon.

[hotimbineh]

mining now is very expensive even though we know harvesting bitcoin is very difficult not like it used to for those who still use old components, the results will be eroded by very expensive electricity costs but you are right to say ...... @kingcolex

Everything in crypto is to scale, regardless if I was chopped up 1/100 it wouldn't matter. The big players would still have warehouses full of equipment and you would get the same reward for the same hashrate.

[Kakmakr]

When you basically have a monopoly and a huge demand for your product, you can charge any price you want and people will pay for it. Bitmain will struggle even more in the future, because the Bitcoin mining scene has become very challenging with high electricity cost <input cost> and also the high difficulty <total hash rate> and the low Bitcoin price.

The Average Joe can simply not compete with huge mining farms that negotiated for fixed <lower> electricity prices and also bulk buying power with lower prices for hardware. <Demand from the average small miners are declining>   

[Ibrash600]

good video.  yea. mining equipment is very expensive. and we see that today BTC is very rare, every hash and block will have to be solved with very expensive equipment. but today mining with a CPU, GPU and FPGA is not recommended, because it will only make electricity costs expensive. I prefer to mine using ASIC or Avalon.

The surge in mining costs is a result of rising hash rates, which is a measure of a miners performance. A higher hash rate increases the chance a computer has of solving the mathematical puzzle required to earn cryptocurrency, but in doing so, the amount of energy required also goes up.

[Beerwizzard]

That was way more overpriced somewhere at the beginning of 2018. Also beside the price there was many issues with shipment when the seller couldn't (or didn't want to) ship ASICS to their customers for many months and gave no response to them. And by the way custommers sometimes payed 2-5$k and got such issue.
Also sometimes Bitmain shipped already used miners that are full of dust inside.
So the company is pretty doubtfull.

[clonely]

Mining equipment should definitely be cheaper and / or higher quality devices should be made available for individual use.

[TimtheYoutuber]

Mining equipment should definitely be cheaper and / or higher quality devices should be made available for individual use.

I agree as it stops regular people from getting into mining.

[pooya87]

Mining equipment should definitely be cheaper and / or higher quality devices should be made available for individual use.

I agree as it stops regular people from getting into mining.

well nothing is stopping others from starting a new manufacturing company to produce ASICs and compete with Bitmain. i assure you that if you were in their place and were running unopposed you would sell your product just as expensively. as i said above, it is all about lack of competition.

[libert19]

Watch this quick 1-minute video on Bitmain's mining: https://youtu.be/OYCz2S6Nn14

What do you guys think about Bitmain?

Bitmain was facing multiple lawsuits, that's why they hiked up the miner's price to pay off the debt.

https://go.daneel.io/news?s=bitmain-mined-crypto-for-its-own-benefits-on-devices-owned-by-the-customers

[TimtheYoutuber]

Watch this quick 1-minute video on Bitmain's mining: https://youtu.be/OYCz2S6Nn14

What do you guys think about Bitmain?

Bitmain was facing multiple lawsuits, that's why they hiked up the miner's price to pay off the debt.

https://go.daneel.io/news?s=bitmain-mined-crypto-for-its-own-benefits-on-devices-owned-by-the-customers

They mismanaged that company so incredibly bad.

[BitBustah]

The majority of people will make much more money if they just use their money to buy bitcoin instead of buying bitmain hardware.  By the time you receive your hardware projected profits will already have dropped off a cliff.  Its just not worth it to get into mining unless you have a source of free or nearly free electricity. 

[septi.JR]

I don't really understand mining, but what I understand is that Bitmain is a big company that provides high-quality mining equipment, maybe the price that is valued at the price of a mining tool is quite expensive, because of the quality provided by the bitmain company

[franky1]

Bitmain was facing multiple lawsuits, that's why they hiked up the miner's price to pay off the debt.

https://go.daneel.io/news?s=bitmain-mined-crypto-for-its-own-benefits-on-devices-owned-by-the-customers

article errors
1. samson MOW(not chow). of previous fame. the mining competitor BTCC which is now dead due to BTCC failures of their own IPO to DCG

2. everyone know asics go through a QC testing phase of being run for a while before shipping. this is not new or exclusive to bitmain. even other manufacturers did it.

3. the cost of manufacturing asics is not that high. so they did not sell at a loss

4. insinuating TSMC sold all its BM1397 chips to apple,samsung etc is a complete falacy.
ASIC chips are designed for one purpose. you cant just take a BM1397 chip and give it to a phone company and then the phone company use it for another purpose.. ASICS are ASICs because they are ASICS
the BM1397 chip is a specific chip for bitmain mining bitcoins PoW. it does no other job, thus useless for cell phone companies

5. TSMC only making enough chips for 1000 rigs.. thats a pretty low minimum order.. even that sound suspiciously false

[shamc]

Mining machines will pay for themselves so it doesn't matter about the price. The important factor is that it is plugged into a cheap power source or you will mine at a loss

[ASHLIUSZ]

As Bitmain is much more specific for mining equipments there products comes at an increased price. As of now very few users from the cryptocurrency network invest into gambling understanding the difficulty in mining as well with the decreased profitability with concern to the down trend of the market.

[TimtheYoutuber]

Mining machines will pay for themselves so it doesn't matter about the price. The important factor is that it is plugged into a cheap power source or you will mine at a loss

This is sort of true but there are other costs associated with mining as well. Labor costs, storage, and taxes. You should also be accounting for price drops in the cryptocurrency as well.

[zahed]

Because https://www.bitmain.com/ mining most of the equipment are high qualitative that's why huge expensive, cheap mining tools highest survive 1 years something like that. But they have a lot of customers i trying to buy Antminer S15-28TH/s (Price 1035$) but stock out in the last few weeks and still not a available.

[nauane]

The majority of people will make much more money if they just use their money to buy bitcoin instead of buying bitmain hardware.  By the time you receive your hardware projected profits will already have dropped off a cliff.  Its just not worth it to get into mining unless you have a source of free or nearly free electricity. 

Mining is not easy to do these days and this is more true for a common man. Electricity cost play a major role in deciding whether mining is feasible or not. I think also the hardware cost and the mining reward needs to be calculated before planning  to actually start the mining.

[kryptqnick]

Watch this quick 1-minute video on Bitmain's mining: https://youtu.be/OYCz2S6Nn14

What do you guys think about Bitmain?

The video is too short, informal and abstact, even though I appreciate the effort to try making an animation and stuff. Bitmain's equipment is probably too expensive, nevertheless, because that's what happens when there's someone's monopoly on the market. Bitmain really controls Bitcoin mining nowadays, and combined with the still bearish market it seems even unrealistic to expect cheap mining equipment.

Mining machines will pay for themselves so it doesn't matter about the price. The important factor is that it is plugged into a cheap power source or you will mine at a loss

You don't know that. If the equipment will get broken or obsolete in, say, half a year, and the prices don't get much better, mining might really be not the best choice nowadays. I honestly think that it's probably more profitable to simply buy bitcoins rather than miners and wait until the market recovers.

[oceantiger]

At $1200 I think it is expensive also. Because you are not even sure of its efficacy and the energy cost for it to be operational. The product owners are even harsh in their advert on that video about people minding their business and not talk about the cost of Bitmain.

[BurgerCash]

As with any other product in a free market, price is determined by supply and demand. And there's plenty of demand by entities that can get nearly free electricity. Bitmain is not spreading free income to the masses, they can't do that anyway.

[franky1]

28terra hashes for $1200 is expensive?

dang
AMD-ATi GPU offers only upto 1gigahash, but charges $600+
if you want to mine without asics. it would cost you 28,000x $600 to GPU mine bitcoin

so is ATI's $16,800,000 for 28terrahash expensive..
or is asics $1200 for 28trrahash

i think ASICS are cheap

[TimtheYoutuber]

As with any other product in a free market, price is determined by supply and demand. And there's plenty of demand by entities that can get nearly free electricity. Bitmain is not spreading free income to the masses, they can't do that anyway.

Of course they can offer it at any price they would like, I just think it is expensive.

[Carollzinha]

As with any other product in a free market, price is determined by supply and demand. And there's plenty of demand by entities that can get nearly free electricity. Bitmain is not spreading free income to the masses, they can't do that anyway.

Of course they can offer it at any price they would like, I just think it is expensive.

Still that depends on how much buy and sell exists in the current market which makes it worth demanding for doing so.

[TimtheYoutuber]

As with any other product in a free market, price is determined by supply and demand. And there's plenty of demand by entities that can get nearly free electricity. Bitmain is not spreading free income to the masses, they can't do that anyway.

Of course they can offer it at any price they would like, I just think it is expensive.

Still that depends on how much buy and sell exists in the current market which makes it worth demanding for doing so.

Well yes, this is economics 101. This doesn't mean it can't be incredibly overpriced though.

[TimtheYoutuber]

If you haven't checked out the video in the OP take a look at it! Who else has some opinions on Bitmain? Do you think they are expensive or do you think the equipment is fair priced?

[Kakmakr]

When you basically have a monopoly and a huge demand for your product, you can charge any price you want and people will pay for it. Bitmain will struggle even more in the future, because the Bitcoin mining scene has become very challenging with high electricity cost <input cost> and also the high difficulty <total hash rate> and the low Bitcoin price.

The Average Joe can simply not compete with huge mining farms that negotiated for fixed <lower> electricity prices and also bulk buying power with lower prices for hardware. <Demand from the average small miners are declining>   

This is mostly gibberish and fluff, either the average joe is the majority of the hashrate and sales or the neither. This goes towards hashrate and difficulty as well.

How can the average Joe be the majority, if large mining farms owns most of the hash rate and expensive ASIC hardware? The smaller miners owns one of two ASIC miners, compared to large mining farms that owns hundreds. It is also a fact that some mining farms negotiated for lower electricity tariffs in some countries. <Example : Iceland> 

There are even some mining farms willing to relocate to Iran where electricity prices are very low, compared to the rest of the world. <Not something that the average Joe would do.> 

[lyks15]

I think this equiptment is not worth it. This is so very expensive yet you can earn small amount of coin and you want to save it as a investment. I will tell you straight that this is not good because the return of investment took a long period of time. For me I will still choose to do other crypto activity to earn like trading and bounty.

[TimtheYoutuber]

I think this equiptment is not worth it. This is so very expensive yet you can earn small amount of coin and you want to save it as a investment. I will tell you straight that this is not good because the return of investment took a long period of time. For me I will still choose to do other crypto activity to earn like trading and bounty.

I agree it could be a good business move if it was cheaper. Money isn't easy to make and if the investment takes 1+ years to earn a profit that is acceptable, however with the current prices and average maintenance + electricity it is not worth it since bitcoin is fluctuating so much.

[fikal01]

Honestly I don't know much about bitcoin or cryptocurrency mining in general, the most important factor is the price of electricity.

I'm not a miner and this is logic once you see that miners are expensive, maybe you won't buy it, but maybe the quality of mining equipment is better than others because Mining is a very expensive way to get or get bitcoin or altcoin. 

[TimtheYoutuber]

Honestly I don't know much about bitcoin or cryptocurrency mining in general, the most important factor is the price of electricity.

I'm not a miner and this is logic once you see that miners are expensive, maybe you won't buy it, but maybe the quality of mining equipment is better than others because Mining is a very expensive way to get or get bitcoin or altcoin. 

The mining equipment is nice, however, it is still expensive. Which means a lot of normal people are not going to be participating in the network which is a large vision for bitcoin and other decentralized systems.

[franky1]

The mining equipment is nice, however, it is still expensive. Which means a lot of normal people are not going to be participating in the network which is a large vision for bitcoin and other decentralized systems.

GPU mining is the most expensive
think about how many motherboards, PSU's and GPU's you would need just for 1 terrahash..
think of the power requirements

[Huskarls]

With the high cost of mining equipment, it can be ascertained that it will provide excellent quality too. whether it's durability or the potential of mining results. But I don't think it will give a satisfactory difference if we compare it to the current market conditions

[kucritt]

bitmain is a good institution, they sell mining rig and anything else, we know that bitmain is  the most  popular store that sell the ant miner, and i think it is good, nothing wrong with bitmain, if you think that antminer expensive, you should know about the benefit if you have the antminer

[xWolfx]

Honestly I don't know much about bitcoin or cryptocurrency mining in general, the most important factor is the price of electricity.

I'm not a miner and this is logic once you see that miners are expensive, maybe you won't buy it, but maybe the quality of mining equipment is better than others because Mining is a very expensive way to get or get bitcoin or altcoin. 

Oh yeah it is. Especially because it requires a lot of technical knowledge to set up and maintain.

And besides the price of electricity, there is also the fact that you really need to have it under ideal conditions or they won't last long at all. Then you can change it, when it is done with it's useful life or you're out of space for a newer one.

However, the disclaimer here is that mining is not for people who don't know what they're doing and doing it in a house it's a lot more expensive. Depending on the country.

[TimtheYoutuber]

Who else thinks bitmain is expensive? if you havent already check out the 1-minute video.

[DreamStage]

If you know how good Bitmain and his technology is you shouldn't be worried about the price.
It's worth as much it's mining capabilities provides to you. Sure there are cheaper hardwares that will do the same at small price.
But the reliability and the production are even comparable?

[oriontab]

In relative terms ,I don't think they are (the bitcoin basic miners),when the market is bullish and you have a cheap source of power,it doesn't take long to get an ROI.It was about 45 days during the last bull run (S9 miners) ( I understand that the mining difficulty has gone up)

[TimtheYoutuber]

If you know how good Bitmain and his technology is you shouldn't be worried about the price.
It's worth as much it's mining capabilities provides to you. Sure there are cheaper hardwares that will do the same at small price.
But the reliability and the production are even comparable?

When you are mining, price means everything. Mining is a business for a lot of people, you dont typically buy a $1000 machine for the fun of watching it turn on.

[jak3]

Bitmain is not new and they were selling mining equipment for more than 2-3 years. so why people started discussing them like there is some new website popped on the internet. There mining equipment cost is fairly good as they are not taking high profits and yet their products have awesome quality (personally used).

[TimtheYoutuber]

Bitmain is not new and they were selling mining equipment for more than 2-3 years. so why people started discussing them like there is some new website popped on the internet. There mining equipment cost is fairly good as they are not taking high profits and yet their products have awesome quality (personally used).

No one is discussing them as if they are new, I am just saying that it is too expensive. The products themselves are actually very expensive with the current prices of cryptocurrency in mind.

[Adriano2010]

I also think is expensive but people can try to buy it if they make calculation before to see if they can make a profit every month after they pay electricity, because maybe can take a lot of time to get ROI and also difficulty of mining grow.

[TimtheYoutuber]

I also think is expensive but people can try to buy it if they make calculation before to see if they can make a profit every month after they pay electricity, because maybe can take a lot of time to get ROI and also difficulty of mining grow.

This is true, some other solutions are coming to light now though so it will be interesting to see where Bitmain is in 5 years.

[TimtheYoutuber]

I'm thinking about getting into the mining industry, however, I won't be using Bitmain. What do you guys think? Is it a good time to enter right now?

[franky1]

the equipment is not the issue. its the electricity price. if you cannot get access to facilities that offer sub 5cent electric, there is no point competing. your only best chance in higher cost area's is to altcoin farm and then convert to bitcoin. but the volatility of the exchange rates of altcoins then become a major consideration and alot of altcoin hopping (changing networks often) become essential

[pixie85]

This is more of a scene that would be in a full episode of a cryptocurrency cartoon. But what do you guys think about it? Do you think Bitmain or mining equipment in general costs too much?

Nope but mining equipment has really always had a more expensive option out there. I remember the knc titans for scrypt mining back in the day and the expensive bitfury machines.

I think the bitfury machines were 110 gigahash/s for $90,000 a machine. (Maybe they were $50k each, I can't remember)

It really doesn't matter. Even if you overpaid for mining equipment at that time you made a lot of money. People were selling miners in 2015 because they thought it was no longer worth it with Bitcoin at 400 dollars and less and now they see how wrong they were.

Bitcoin mining is no longer for a normal hobbyist. If you can't afford a big warehouse full of miners and cheap power don't think about it.

[TimtheYoutuber]

Im bringing this back because I am seeing a lot of conversation on buying mining equipment to start making passive income.



I think for most people they see bitcoin mining as "free money". However, its almost always nonprofitable unless you have the perfect operation with older equipment that is expensed, and have cheap electricity/labor.

You're better off just investing in Bitcoin and then selling if it goes up for a profit, instead of mining bitcoin and getting liquidated when the price doesn't skyrocket.

[pikkie]

Im bringing this back because I am seeing a lot of conversation on buying mining equipment to start making passive income.



I think for most people they see bitcoin mining as "free money". However, its almost always nonprofitable unless you have the perfect operation with older equipment that is expensed, and have cheap electricity/labor.

You're better off just investing in Bitcoin and then selling if it goes up for a profit, instead of mining bitcoin and getting liquidated when the price doesn't skyrocket.

although they buy a lot of tools to do bitcoin mining but I see the level of difficulty to get results from mining will be less while the electricity needed is also very high so I think to be able to get profit or return on investment will be very long, better with a capital of money the same you can trade and buy bitcoin at the exchange so that the profits will be faster than mining and no longer think about the cost of electricity and maintenance of mining equipment.

[xvids]

I am not a miner but here is my point of view,
Yes Bitcoin mining equipment is expensive but it would be worth it for the long run specially if your country electricity is cheap.
But don't expect too much from it because the ROI would really take sometime but if you would think about it after you gain back what you have invested all the following mined BTC would be your profit.
Just think about how long you would use the mining equipment after you've gained back what you invested or buy some more to have a faster profit from it.
We couldn't say that it would be for a life long equipment but for sure it would be for a long time so for me it would be worth it only if you aren't going to quit on crypto.

[elenag1242]

it is basically absence of rivalry that causes this. a year ago in spite of the drops we saw an excellent deal of enthusiasm from various organizations in numerous nations like Japan show plenty of enthusiasm for stepping into creating bitcoin mining hardware. at that time out of the blue a social show began about bitcoin's vitality waste and alter to POS which can have even frightened a number of them away. also, that's the thing that we get due to it...

what we'd like isn't kidding support of others to urge in ASIC creation which will improve everything from cost and quality to decentralization which may be a higher priority than all else.