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Author Topic: [FLAGGED] [scam] BetKing.io broke ICO promise and dropped token value 99%  (Read 2701 times)
PrimeNumber7
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March 23, 2019, 09:30:22 PM
 #101


I don't think this topic has much more to offer. You have the red trust you deserve to warn others, I have my worthless tokens.
I don't think any trust rating will do very much in warning most people. Businesses can advertise in many places on the internet, the majority of which will not be affected by the trust system.

The topic will allow anyone who is doing their due diligence to see what is going on and act accordingly. A thread that is locked implies the underlying issue is resolved/closed/no longer applies. 


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March 23, 2019, 10:09:32 PM
Merited by LoyceV (2)
 #102

@PrimeNumber7 your analysis looks very accurate

The entire setup appears asinine, and subjects everyone to unnecessary risks. I don't understand why a percentage of bankroll profits would not be converted to etherum, or a stablecoin that could be airdropped to token holders in the form of a dividend. A market may develop for these tokens to capture the anticipated future cash flows of the dividends.

The problem is the name "betking ico" is a bit misleading. It was designed (and privately marketed) more as: "Dean Nolan's USD denominated debt token" but instead of offering any interest rate he offered a % of the site bankroll profit he would provide % of the bankroll profits. All costs associated with operating the site would be purely taken care of him. (this was done so "% of bankroll profits" is strictly +EV and investors didn't need to trust his ability to run a profitable business).

e.g. Just before he scammed everyone he told me he had some poker debts (in USD) and didn't want to lose his exposure to BTC. So I should buy a large sum of BKB tokens, which he would give me at a crazy favorable rate (something like 30% under their face-value, although I'd need to consult our chat logs to be sure) and would even provide me with an accelerated buy-back schedule.  [If anyone is wondering why I keep presenting a slightly different version, it's cause he made like ~5 attempts for me to give him money just before he scammed. Each i knocked back telling him I was unwilling to accept counter party risk by him, but would be willing to in an escrowed deal, which was something he would never agree to)]

This set off a huge amount of alarm-bells, why would he be willing to acquire BTC exposure ridiculously higher than market rate (e.g. bitmex) and then confirmed my suspicions by scamming his remaining token-holders.

But it's kind of pointless to try establish his motive/intentions, but I guess I can ask:

Had I bought the betking ~million dollars of  tokens you privately offered me, would've your honored the buyback agreement? Or would've my tokens been treated the same as everyone else's?


Quote
My question to betking would be: Were 10% of outstanding tokens offered to be repurchased at a price described above? If not, I believe you have not honored your obligations.

Exactly this.
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March 23, 2019, 10:19:39 PM
 #103

Had I bought the betking ~million dollars of  tokens you privately offered me, would've your honored the buyback agreement? Or would've my tokens been treated the same as everyone else's?

You're asking if a business would be different or change it's roadmap if 4-5 months ago it raised an extra $1 million in investment? What do you think the answer is?
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March 23, 2019, 10:45:02 PM
 #104

You're asking if a business would be different or change it's roadmap if 4-5 months ago it raised an extra $1 million in investment? What do you think the answer is?

Well, you can see my trust feedback for my opinion. But the misdirection is kind of killing me. You wanted a personal loan (either directly, or via BKB tokens). And promised to pay it back personally. You claimed to have systems in place to automatically sell BTC to guarantee your obligation to token-holders, even if there was a sudden and expected BTC price fall. The million dollars would've had no utility to the business. Anyway, I'm never going to prove you tried to scam me. So why don't you answer the simple and direct questions asked of you?

Here's a good one:
Quote
My question to betking would be: Were 10% of outstanding tokens offered to be repurchased at a price described above? If not, I believe you have not honored your obligations.
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March 23, 2019, 10:56:37 PM
 #105

You're asking if a business would be different or change it's roadmap if 4-5 months ago it raised an extra $1 million in investment? What do you think the answer is?

Well, you can see my trust feedback for my opinion. But the misdirection is kind of killing me. You wanted a personal loan (either directly, or via BKB tokens). And promised to pay it back personally. You claimed to have systems in place to automatically sell BTC to guarantee your obligation to token-holders, even if there was a sudden and expected BTC price fall. The million dollars would've had no utility to the business. Anyway, I'm never going to prove you tried to scam me. So why don't you answer the simple and direct questions asked of you?

Here's a good one:
Quote
My question to betking would be: Were 10% of outstanding tokens offered to be repurchased at a price described above? If not, I believe you have not honored your obligations.

So you say you can't prove i tried to scam you but leave a scam accusation anyway? That doesn't seem right and seems to be abuse of the trust system.

The other question can't be answered because PrimeNumber7 posted wrong information on how the ico, token value and buy back process worked.
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March 23, 2019, 10:58:40 PM
 #106

You're asking if a business would be different or change it's roadmap if 4-5 months ago it raised an extra $1 million in investment? What do you think the answer is?

Well, you can see my trust feedback for my opinion. But the misdirection is kind of killing me. You wanted a personal loan (either directly, or via BKB tokens). And promised to pay it back personally. You claimed to have systems in place to automatically sell BTC to guarantee your obligation to token-holders, even if there was a sudden and expected BTC price fall. The million dollars would've had no utility to the business. Anyway, I'm never going to prove you tried to scam me. So why don't you answer the simple and direct questions asked of you?

Here's a good one:
Quote
My question to betking would be: Were 10% of outstanding tokens offered to be repurchased at a price described above? If not, I believe you have not honored your obligations.

So you say you can't prove i tried to scam you but leave a scam accusation anyway? That doesn't seem right and seems to be abuse of the trust system.

The other question can't be answered because PrimeNumber7 posted wrong information on how the ico, token value and buy back process worked.

How about you post the right information instead of complaining how everyone is wrong without any information on HOW they are wrong?

Much appreciated...

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March 23, 2019, 11:02:23 PM
 #107

You're asking if a business would be different or change it's roadmap if 4-5 months ago it raised an extra $1 million in investment? What do you think the answer is?

Well, you can see my trust feedback for my opinion. But the misdirection is kind of killing me. You wanted a personal loan (either directly, or via BKB tokens). And promised to pay it back personally. You claimed to have systems in place to automatically sell BTC to guarantee your obligation to token-holders, even if there was a sudden and expected BTC price fall. The million dollars would've had no utility to the business. Anyway, I'm never going to prove you tried to scam me. So why don't you answer the simple and direct questions asked of you?

Here's a good one:
Quote
My question to betking would be: Were 10% of outstanding tokens offered to be repurchased at a price described above? If not, I believe you have not honored your obligations.

So you say you can't prove i tried to scam you but leave a scam accusation anyway? That doesn't seem right and seems to be abuse of the trust system.

The other question can't be answered because PrimeNumber7 posted wrong information on how the ico, token value and buy back process worked.

How about you post the right information instead of complaining how everyone is wrong without any information on HOW they are wrong?

Much appreciated...

How about you read my posts and you would know the information?
What makes you think you are entitled to any information about a competitors business? You're not an investor are you?

How about you focus on your own site that raised $8-10 million and has not done any updates in the past year while your own token price has dropped 40%?
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March 23, 2019, 11:14:18 PM
 #108

You're asking if a business would be different or change it's roadmap if 4-5 months ago it raised an extra $1 million in investment? What do you think the answer is?

Well, you can see my trust feedback for my opinion. But the misdirection is kind of killing me. You wanted a personal loan (either directly, or via BKB tokens). And promised to pay it back personally. You claimed to have systems in place to automatically sell BTC to guarantee your obligation to token-holders, even if there was a sudden and expected BTC price fall. The million dollars would've had no utility to the business. Anyway, I'm never going to prove you tried to scam me. So why don't you answer the simple and direct questions asked of you?

Here's a good one:
Quote
My question to betking would be: Were 10% of outstanding tokens offered to be repurchased at a price described above? If not, I believe you have not honored your obligations.

So you say you can't prove i tried to scam you but leave a scam accusation anyway? That doesn't seem right and seems to be abuse of the trust system.

The other question can't be answered because PrimeNumber7 posted wrong information on how the ico, token value and buy back process worked.

How about you post the right information instead of complaining how everyone is wrong without any information on HOW they are wrong?

Much appreciated...

How about you read my posts and you would know the information?
What makes you think you are entitled to any information about a competitors business? You're not an investor are you?

How about you focus on your own site that raised $8-10 million and has not done any updates in the past year while your own token price has dropped 40%?


You certainly do have your ways to shift attention Wink

EDIT: Don't have to be an investor, just a player and an observer to make up my mind.

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March 23, 2019, 11:52:41 PM
Last edit: March 24, 2019, 12:17:29 AM by JollyGood
 #109

Had I bought the betking ~million dollars of  tokens you privately offered me, would've your honored the buyback agreement? Or would've my tokens been treated the same as everyone else's?

You're asking if a business would be different or change it's roadmap if 4-5 months ago it raised an extra $1 million in investment? What do you think the answer is?
The answer is that you are a pathetic scammer who would have taken $1 million from RHavar had you been successful in your attempt to dupe him, then when it would inevitably all have gone downhill you would have no doubt said to him "I did not force you to invest, you should have applied due-diligence. No, actually I said this-that but I meant that-this so it is your fault for investing. Anyway it is a business I changed the direction of the business to the terms you invested and I can do it unilaterally because I am a dictator."

You pathetic little scammer - thankfully you fell flat on your face when you could not get RHavar to part with his crypto. Shame on you.





So you say you can't prove i tried to scam you but leave a scam accusation anyway? That doesn't seem right and seems to be abuse of the trust system.

The other question can't be answered because PrimeNumber7 posted wrong information on how the ico, token value and buy back process worked.

How about you post the right information instead of complaining how everyone is wrong without any information on HOW they are wrong?

Much appreciated...
Grin
No chance of getting scammer Dean Nolan to respond that way






How about you post the right information instead of complaining how everyone is wrong without any information on HOW they are wrong?

Much appreciated...

How about you read my posts and you would know the information?
What makes you think you are entitled to any information about a competitors business? You're not an investor are you?

How about you focus on your own site that raised $8-10 million and has not done any updates in the past year while your own token price has dropped 40%?
Shocked

Here we go again....

Scammer Dean Nolan never answers the questions put to him and then asks people to read his answers. What an idiot scammer Dean Nolan is.

The scammer Dean Nolan that had $3.5 million in 2017 ICO funds for the bankroll but allegedly spent it on buy-backs to pocket cash while selling his own tokens too...

The scammer Dean Nolan that had $3.5 million in 2017 ICO funds for "marketing, promotions, seo, design, development, server costs and legal"...

and on top of that scammer Dean Nolan allegedly kept back 30 million tokens private tokens for "ICO bounties, testing bounties, advisors, hiring, future marketing and development"..

yet still oversaw more than 99% drop in value of his beloved betking tokens is complaining to other website owners.

The scammer Dean Nolan as recent as a few months back was trying to close betking and transfer over BKB tokens to his new "bitsafe" project but only AFTER having another ICO trying to raise $10 million of which nothing would go to BKB token holders - so it means scammer Dean Nolan would have it.

Pathetic little shameless low-life. What an imbecile.





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March 24, 2019, 12:39:06 AM
 #110

@PrimeNumber7 your analysis looks very accurate

The entire setup appears asinine, and subjects everyone to unnecessary risks. I don't understand why a percentage of bankroll profits would not be converted to etherum, or a stablecoin that could be airdropped to token holders in the form of a dividend. A market may develop for these tokens to capture the anticipated future cash flows of the dividends.

The problem is the name "betking ico" is a bit misleading. It was designed (and privately marketed) more as: "Dean Nolan's USD denominated debt token" but instead of offering any interest rate he offered a % of the site bankroll profit he would provide % of the bankroll profits. All costs associated with operating the site would be purely taken care of him. (this was done so "% of bankroll profits" is strictly +EV and investors didn't need to trust his ability to run a profitable business).
That was probably done to avoid breaking securities law enforced in the United States. I am not sure if this setup actually avoided running afoul of these laws though.

One of the things taught in accounting classes is that businesses should take out loans in durations that match their cash flows of what the business is borrowing for, so if a business is borrowing money to build a factory, it should not be in a position to have to repay the loan before cash flows from the factory are expected to have been generated. In other words, the time frame for receivables should roughly match the time frame for due dates of debts. Similarly, a business that earns its profits in dollars should not take out debts in Euros in case the value of the dollar goes down a lot.

Before the extra interest from the bankroll profit is taken into consideration, Dean was paying approximately 42% interest for things like bounties and marketing in the form of additional tokens issued. I cannot imagine someone intending to repay their debt being willing to pay that large a premium.

 
e.g. Just before he scammed everyone he told me he had some poker debts (in USD) and didn't want to lose his exposure to BTC. So I should buy a large sum of BKB tokens, which he would give me at a crazy favorable rate (something like 30% under their face-value, although I'd need to consult our chat logs to be sure) and would even provide me with an accelerated buy-back schedule.  [If anyone is wondering why I keep presenting a slightly different version, it's cause he made like ~5 attempts for me to give him money just before he scammed. Each i knocked back telling him I was unwilling to accept counter party risk by him, but would be willing to in an escrowed deal, which was something he would never agree to)]

This set off a huge amount of alarm-bells, why would he be willing to acquire BTC exposure ridiculously higher than market rate (e.g. bitmex) and then confirmed my suspicions by scamming his remaining token-holders.
He sold the tokens at 70 cents on the dollar because only 70 millions were available for sale, and 30 million were given to bounty hunters.

Who wouldn't want a free ~$400k, right?

I saw you talk about this in a previous post, and you said that you have a "hard-requirement of not exposing (yourself) to counterparty risk" and I wanted to point out that having Dean deposit the bitcoin collateral with a reputable escrow would expose you to counterparty risk with the escrow. I agree it is not a good idea to expose yourself to counterparty risk to someone offering an "instant" 42% return. It also is maybe a good policy to not expose yourself to counterparty risk to anyone who approaches you with a business proposal over a threshold. 


You're asking if a business would be different or change it's roadmap if 4-5 months ago it raised an extra $1 million in investment? What do you think the answer is?

Well, you can see my trust feedback for my opinion. But the misdirection is kind of killing me. You wanted a personal loan (either directly, or via BKB tokens). And promised to pay it back personally. You claimed to have systems in place to automatically sell BTC to guarantee your obligation to token-holders, even if there was a sudden and expected BTC price fall. The million dollars would've had no utility to the business. Anyway, I'm never going to prove you tried to scam me. So why don't you answer the simple and direct questions asked of you?

Here's a good one:
Quote
My question to betking would be: Were 10% of outstanding tokens offered to be repurchased at a price described above? If not, I believe you have not honored your obligations.

...
The other question can't be answered because PrimeNumber7 posted wrong information on how the ico, token value and buy back process worked.
Can you explain how I was wrong? I do not want to keep incorrect information up, and will correct any mistakes that are noted.

Right now, the facts as understood by nearly everyone in this thread, and probably by most reasonable people reading this thread show you to be a scammer and as not honoring your obligations. If you can correct the record, then you should have an easier time conducting business if the record shows you have honored your obligations, and would probably result in you earning more profits.


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March 24, 2019, 12:57:36 AM
 #111

Can you explain how I was wrong? I do not want to keep incorrect information up, and will correct any mistakes that are noted.

Right now, the facts as understood by nearly everyone in this thread, and probably by most reasonable people reading this thread show you to be a scammer and as not honoring your obligations. If you can correct the record, then you should have an easier time conducting business if the record shows you have honored your obligations, and would probably result in you earning more profits.

You ask me to explain how you are wrong AFTER you post more assumptions and false information? Are you serious?

The facts by people in this thread? The people who are posting false claims with no evidence and ulterior motives?

The burdon of proof is not on me to show innocence here, I am the one being accused. The accusers should show hard evidence instead of biased opinions.
You have shown to fit that same category and so there's not really any point me discussing or explaining to you either. Your mind is clearly already made up.
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March 24, 2019, 01:10:14 AM
 #112

I saw you talk about this in a previous post, and you said that you have a "hard-requirement of not exposing (yourself) to counterparty risk" and I wanted to point out that having Dean deposit the bitcoin collateral with a reputable escrow would expose you to counterparty risk with the escrow. I agree it is not a good idea to expose yourself to counterparty risk to someone offering an "instant" 42% return. It also is maybe a good policy to not expose yourself to counterparty risk to anyone who approaches you with a business proposal over a threshold. 

It's actually not too bad. My suggestion was that we use an escrow-agent to create a 2-of-3 multisig address (Where I am one holder, dean is another and the escrow the third). We would both commit enough funds into the multi sig-address (and keep it topped up) and have public payout addresses. Dean preliminarily agreed, so I talked to some extremely prominent members of the bitcoin community who agreed to escrow the deal. But that rapidly fell apart with nonsense excuses and kept offering amendments such that would break rule from the start: I am not going to enter a deal where I need to trust him with a million dollars.
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March 24, 2019, 01:21:04 AM
 #113

Can you explain how I was wrong? I do not want to keep incorrect information up, and will correct any mistakes that are noted.

Right now, the facts as understood by nearly everyone in this thread, and probably by most reasonable people reading this thread show you to be a scammer and as not honoring your obligations. If you can correct the record, then you should have an easier time conducting business if the record shows you have honored your obligations, and would probably result in you earning more profits.

You ask me to explain how you are wrong AFTER you post more assumptions and false information? Are you serious?

The facts by people in this thread? The people who are posting false claims with no evidence and ulterior motives?

The burdon of proof is not on me to show innocence here, I am the one being accused. The accusers should show hard evidence instead of biased opinions.
You have shown to fit that same category and so there's not really any point me discussing or explaining to you either. Your mind is clearly already made up.







When are you launching the next scam ICO for your "bitsafe" project?


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March 24, 2019, 01:26:29 AM
 #114


When are you launching the next scam ICO for your "bitsafe" project?


will be launching the new project along with ico soon enough
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March 24, 2019, 01:34:32 AM
 #115


When are you launching the next scam ICO for your "bitsafe" project?


will be launching the new project along with ico soon enough

Did not have to wait long for that question to be answered. Let me try another few...

Of the 600 BTC you allegedly used from the 2017 ICO bankroll funds in complete violation of the 2017 ICO promises when you unnecessarily funded the buy-back of BKB tokens, how many of those tokens were your personal tokens that you decided to cash in on?

And how much in BTC did you personally pocket from that?

How much in BTC of the bankroll remains?

How much of the 50% of the 2017 ICO funds that were supposed to be used for "marketing, promotions, seo, design, development, server costs and legal" remains?

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March 24, 2019, 06:06:28 AM
 #116

e.g. Just before he scammed everyone he told me he had some poker debts (in USD) and didn't want to lose his exposure to BTC. So I should buy a large sum of BKB tokens
At the ICO, Dean said the BKB tokens wouldn't be sold again.
My question:
Will the tokens that are bought back by BetKing be re-sold again at some point, or are they off the market forever?
BetKing.io's answer (archived):
They won't be re-sold no.
That promise was broken a year later:
To save the risk of trading on hitbtc or with any potential scammers on telegram you can buy BKB directly on BetKing with 25% discount
https://betking.io/invest
(archived)



The burdon of proof is not on me to show innocence here, I am the one being accused. The accusers should show hard evidence instead of biased opinions.
As the accuser, I don't have to convince the accused. That didn't work before making this thread. This thread was meant to convince others, not you. You're clearly denying everything.

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March 24, 2019, 06:08:21 AM
 #117


My question:
Will the tokens that are bought back by BetKing be re-sold again at some point, or are they off the market forever?
BetKing.io's answer (archived):
They won't be re-sold no.
That promise was broken a year later:
To save the risk of trading on hitbtc or with any potential scammers on telegram you can buy BKB directly on BetKing with 25% discount
https://betking.io/invest
(archived)



This alone is enough to confirm that Dean is a liar/scammer and cannot be trusted in any capacity. Literally just this one quote.

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March 24, 2019, 11:59:39 AM
Last edit: March 24, 2019, 12:09:43 PM by JollyGood
 #118

e.g. Just before he scammed everyone he told me he had some poker debts (in USD) and didn't want to lose his exposure to BTC. So I should buy a large sum of BKB tokens
At the ICO, Dean said the BKB tokens wouldn't be sold again.
My question:
Will the tokens that are bought back by BetKing be re-sold again at some point, or are they off the market forever?
BetKing.io's answer (archived):
They won't be re-sold no.
That promise was broken a year later:
To save the risk of trading on hitbtc or with any potential scammers on telegram you can buy BKB directly on BetKing with 25% discount
https://betking.io/invest
(archived)



The burdon of proof is not on me to show innocence here, I am the one being accused. The accusers should show hard evidence instead of biased opinions.
As the accuser, I don't have to convince the accused. That didn't work before making this thread. This thread was meant to convince others, not you. You're clearly denying everything.


I think the issue at hand is clear.

When someone acts as a dictator and feels he can do whatever he wants without scrutiny because investors are swallowing up the rubbish excuses he gives them, then he will no doubt continue to scam because he would feel he could get away with it.

If there were monthly audits and financial scrutiny then none of this would have happened.

Look at his attempted $10 million scam for his "bitsafe" project. He was inviting investors in the ICO but mainly BKB investors he had them duped while betking failed. He made a unilateral decision (by fooling investors in to accepting betking was dead and bitsafe was the future) to close betking and switch BKB tokens over to his new BTSC tokens. He made it clear the website and exchange software was complete but he still wanted $10 million from the ICO for "website development". Then he changed his mind and went for betking EOS tokens to try and give betking one last shot at some sort of success before closing it down.

Since there is no audit or scrutiny of funds/expenditure this scammer Dean Nolan had diverted funds to all sorts of places including:

- Profiting directly by siphoning funds or by selling his personal tokens using 600 BTC bankroll in buy-backs
- Hiring developers to make his bitsafe project using betking funds to pay them
- Reselling of BKB tokens directly on the betking website that were never supposed to be re-sold
- He refused to pay 20 BTC +EV to winners of the 2018 betking Christmas Wager and refused any audit to see what really happened
- Lots more

The man is a serial scammer, he will hopefully get jail time or at the very least the UK Police (Scotland Sheriff) will arrest him and interview him about his illegal activities surrounding the betking scam.


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March 24, 2019, 12:05:56 PM
 #119

e.g. Just before he scammed everyone he told me he had some poker debts (in USD) and didn't want to lose his exposure to BTC. So I should buy a large sum of BKB tokens
At the ICO, Dean said the BKB tokens wouldn't be sold again.
My question:
Will the tokens that are bought back by BetKing be re-sold again at some point, or are they off the market forever?
BetKing.io's answer (archived):
They won't be re-sold no.
That promise was broken a year later:
To save the risk of trading on hitbtc or with any potential scammers on telegram you can buy BKB directly on BetKing with 25% discount
https://betking.io/invest
(archived)



The burdon of proof is not on me to show innocence here, I am the one being accused. The accusers should show hard evidence instead of biased opinions.
As the accuser, I don't have to convince the accused. That didn't work before making this thread. This thread was meant to convince others, not you. You're clearly denying everything.

Should I be surprised once some foolproof information against Dean was provided he isn't here to respond? Good job there LoyceV, that's clearly something he can't even deny imo.

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March 24, 2019, 12:19:36 PM
 #120

the damage was already done and I'm sure token holders have no chance , but since Dean is planning to launch another ICO then such accusation may save future investors

what's really annoying me is that the site didn't make any progress , none of the promises that were made during ICO happened
there was no progress at all and there was  terrible management going on , that was obvious after poker and sportsbetting launch

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