Bitcoin Forum
April 23, 2019, 01:12:32 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 0.17.1 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: « 1 [2]  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Proof-of-Stake Fair Approach  (Read 345 times)
jacafbiz
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 502



View Profile
April 02, 2019, 12:00:30 PM
 #21

For now no Proof of Stake coin can stand out against BTC, maybe in future, to me POS is a coin of making the rich become richer, look at EOS for example and their staking was rigged in favour of the cabals, though most people do not understand this, Cardano seems to be promising something new but let's wait and see



▄▄                                  ▄▄
 ███▄                            ▄███
  ██████                      ██████
   ███████                  ███████
    ███████                ███████
     ███████              ███████
      ███████            ███████
       ███████▄▄      ▄▄███████
        ██████████████████████
         ████████████████████
          ██████████████████
           ████████████████
            ██████████████
             ███████████
              █████████
               ███████
                █████
                 ██
                  █
veil|     PRIVACY     
     WITHOUT COMPROMISE.       
▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂
|   NO ICO. NO PREMINE. 
   X16RT GPU Mining. Fair distribution.   
|      The first Zerocoin-based Cryptocurrency       
   WITH ALWAYS-ON PRIVACY.   
|



                   ▄▄████
              ▄▄████████▌
         ▄▄█████████▀███
    ▄▄██████████▀▀ ▄███▌
▄████████████▀▀  ▄█████
▀▀▀███████▀   ▄███████▌
      ██    ▄█████████
       █  ▄██████████▌
       █  ███████████
       █ ██▀ ▀██████▌
       ██▀     ▀████
                 ▀█▌




   ▄███████
   ████████
   ███▀
   ███
██████████
██████████
   ███
   ███
   ███
   ███
   ███
   ███




     ▄▄█▀▀ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ▀▀█▄▄
   ▐██▄▄██████████████▄▄██▌
   ████████████████████████
  ▐████████████████████████▌
  ███████▀▀▀██████▀▀▀███████
 ▐██████     ████     ██████▌
 ███████     ████     ███████
▐████████▄▄▄██████▄▄▄████████▌
▐████████████████████████████▌
 █████▄▄▀▀▀▀██████▀▀▀▀▄▄█████
  ▀▀██████          ██████▀▀
      ▀▀▀            ▀▀▀
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1555981952
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1555981952

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1555981952
Reply with quote  #2

1555981952
Report to moderator
Lucasgabd
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 672
Merit: 123


We're hundreds of layers


View Profile
April 02, 2019, 07:50:52 PM
 #22

My question is whether or not a proof-of-stake implementation where every participant receives an equal probability to be selected to mine the next block as long as they offer up enough coins (however the proof of stake algorithm decides the amount) would be feasible?
Your idea is good, however, the problem with this thinking is that if for instance the staking limit is 1 coin per wallet somebody with 10 coins could simply run 10 wallets (maybe even on different PCs) and he would get 10 "votes".
Hence you are almost back to the original PoS with just more logistic difficulties to set up more wallets to get more network weight.

Any solution that is only based on "amount of coins in wallet" will face a similar problem, because what could prevent you to distribute your coins onto several wallets?

That!

mostly of the governance systems nowadays use one of these 2 approachs:
- the number of nodes you have gives you more weight on voting (1 mn = 1 vote)
- the number of coins you have givew you more weight.

quite simmilar indeed.
and with richer ones taking the decisions.

would love to dig into distributed ways of creating voting systems that didn't benefit the bigger stakeholders only.

but also. I understand that people with more coin would be more interested on the future of the project and on its success, due to more skin in the game.

yapa ve yalniz
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 472
Merit: 107



View Profile
April 02, 2019, 08:10:56 PM
 #23

For now no Proof of Stake coin can stand out against BTC, maybe in future, to me POS is a coin of making the rich become richer, look at EOS for example and their staking was rigged in favour of the cabals, though most people do not understand this, Cardano seems to be promising something new but let's wait and see

What kind of things cardano promises? PoS is very cheap and efficient in terms of electricity energy voiced. Maybe i can think of it.

libert19
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 644
Merit: 109



View Profile WWW
April 03, 2019, 02:54:36 AM
 #24

For now no Proof of Stake coin can stand out against BTC, maybe in future, to me POS is a coin of making the rich become richer, look at EOS for example and their staking was rigged in favour of the cabals, though most people do not understand this.

It's works quite similar in PoW, doesn't it? You need to buy mining rigs, pay electricity bills, etc

CryptoLing
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 382
Merit: 22


View Profile
April 03, 2019, 05:57:30 AM
 #25

Proof-of-Stake approach implements the principle - the rich get richer.
This is not exactly the best option.
I think the combination of POS and POW algorithms is the most appropriate.

The poor or rich both earn same interest thus creating a level playing field.  The rich does not earn a higher percentage.  I feel its quite fair

Pow is bias towards rich get richer.  B/c it favors the very few with access to cheap electric, thus the rich get richer.  With POS it does not matter where you live or what your electric cost is.  

I do agree with you on a combination of POW that transitions to POS is quite fair or a combo of both like decred.  This hybrid approach does bring in a bigger community of miners and stakers together.

What he means is that when you have more coins, you are automatically rich. Even if the percentage is same for everyone, the rich guy will be holding more coins and in return he will get more than what a normal guy with same percentage with less coins will get.
Exactly my point, POS may reduce the energy waste from mining but remember that with POS only the people who has the coin will get block reward. Imagine if a new player comes to the crypto world with low capital, they will be struggle to even get 1 stake in POS system.

lunobird
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 588
Merit: 111


View Profile
April 03, 2019, 04:49:30 PM
Last edit: April 03, 2019, 08:33:55 PM by lunobird
 #26

Proof-of-Stake approach implements the principle - the rich get richer.
This is not exactly the best option.
I think the combination of POS and POW algorithms is the most appropriate.

The poor or rich both earn same interest thus creating a level playing field.  The rich does not earn a higher percentage.  I feel its quite fair

Pow is bias towards rich get richer.  B/c it favors the very few with access to cheap electric, thus the rich get richer.  With POS it does not matter where you live or what your electric cost is.  

I do agree with you on a combination of POW that transitions to POS is quite fair or a combo of both like decred.  This hybrid approach does bring in a bigger community of miners and stakers together.

What he means is that when you have more coins, you are automatically rich. Even if the percentage is same for everyone, the rich guy will be holding more coins and in return he will get more than what a normal guy with same percentage with less coins will get.
Exactly my point, POS may reduce the energy waste from mining but remember that with POS only the people who has the coin will get block reward. Imagine if a new player comes to the crypto world with low capital, they will be struggle to even get 1 stake in POS system.

How is that any different than pow. ? Pow you get less rewards with less miner just like pos less reward with less coin. Except pos doesn't waste energy like pow so therefore is considered the next evolution of block confirmation.

Also pow is centralized to those with access to cheap electric. Pos is decentralized as it gives everyone fair chance anyone can buy coins and no miner can game the system like they have been for so long.

I see a lot of hardcore miners disliking pos bc pow favors only them. To me that's called centralization and the cheaper your electric the much greater your unfair advantage you have over all others.

And bc of all this mining centralization around bitcoin and eth I can easily see Xrp taking the spot away from bitcoin in the future. As this relies on no mining and new market participants won't be interested as much in btc as it's already pumped up bags from the big mining farms. Xrp is a much better leveled playing field and much better value to fundementals it offers
meanwords
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 616
Merit: 105



View Profile
April 03, 2019, 11:51:33 PM
 #27

The rich get richer, it's a simple logic to Proof-of-stake but if you think about it, it's the same with POW but even better than POW. Wouldn't it be the same as mining POW? I mean, those who control a lot of rigs would get more coins in the process. POS consumes little energy while it's the opposite of POW. Rigs are expensive to make and if you look at it, it would be better to just buy the asset because you are helping the market at the same time. For me, POS implementation is a good idea.

PS: read the above post.

Esterklu
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 518
Merit: 10


View Profile
April 15, 2019, 10:16:30 AM
 #28

There are different opinions, my is the following: PoS (vs PoW) is the only way for those are limited by finance to buy expensive equipment, or to pay a high electricity fee, or have no enough technical knowledge to handle that equipment. Let's say, it's a niche for a certain group of people, those want to participate in mining as investors, but have specific starting conditions. Yes, i understand the risk of that 'the rich get richer' and a small holder may get nothing. But every business has a certain share of risk, no exceptions. So everyone choose own niche.

Ezenwanyi1
Copper Member
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 210
Merit: 1

Veil


View Profile
April 19, 2019, 09:13:08 AM
 #29

With proof of stake ,anyone can engage in mining activities without having to wortyover the high cost associated with buying electricity and other expensive mining equipments.
But I will advice for the combination of both proof of stakes and proof of works algorithm for maximum effect.

sockpuppet1911
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 658
Merit: 268



View Profile
April 19, 2019, 10:17:52 AM
 #30

I recently have been looking into proof-of-stake because of how much energy is being used in the current Bitcoin proof-of-work. From just the small material that I have read it seems that proof-of-stake gives a participant a higher chance of being able to mine the next block (and receive the transaction fees) if they offer up more coins. To me this seems to favor participants who just have more money than everyone else (I may be wrong about this and totally open to being corrected). My question is whether or not a proof-of-stake implementation where every participant receives an equal probability to be selected to mine the next block as long as they offer up enough coins (however the proof of stake algorithm decides the amount) would be feasible? This would be sort of akin to one vote to one person, fair and equal. Would this make participants not want to participate due to smaller chances or things like that? This may be a dumb idea, but I need some people with more knowledge than me to explain why it would or would not work. Thank you!

This is a strange way to think about it, since rich already have more money to invest in the mining equipment as well so the more invested rich pow miners have a higher possibility to find a block as well.
Technically you could pool those big addresses the same way as the pow pools do get more stable income. Or build in the code a logarithmic model based on the weight of the staked coins.



▄▄                                  ▄▄
 ███▄                            ▄███
  ██████                      ██████
   ███████                  ███████
    ███████                ███████
     ███████              ███████
      ███████            ███████
       ███████▄▄      ▄▄███████
        ██████████████████████
         ████████████████████
          ██████████████████
           ████████████████
            ██████████████
             ███████████
              █████████
               ███████
                █████
                 ██
                  █
veil|     PRIVACY     
     WITHOUT COMPROMISE.       
▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂
|   NO ICO. NO PREMINE. 
   X16RT GPU Mining. Fair distribution.   
|    The first Zerocoin-based Cryptocurrency   
  WITH ALWAYS-ON PRIVACY.   
|



                   ▄▄████
              ▄▄████████▌
         ▄▄█████████▀███
    ▄▄██████████▀▀ ▄███▌
▄████████████▀▀  ▄█████
▀▀▀███████▀   ▄███████▌
      ██    ▄█████████
       █  ▄██████████▌
       █  ███████████
       █ ██▀ ▀██████▌
       ██▀     ▀████
                 ▀█▌




   ▄███████
   ████████
   ███▀
   ███
██████████
██████████
   ███
   ███
   ███
   ███
   ███
   ███




             ▄████▄▄   
█▄          ██████████▀
███        ███████████▀
▐████▄     ██████████▌
▄▄██████▄▄▄▄█████████▌
▀████████████████████
  ▀█████████████████
  ▄▄███████████████
   ▀█████████████▀
    ▄▄█████████▀
▀▀██████████▀
    ▀▀▀▀▀




     ▄▄█▀▀ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ▀▀█▄▄
   ▐██▄▄██████████████▄▄██▌
   ████████████████████████
  ▐████████████████████████▌
  ███████▀▀▀██████▀▀▀███████
 ▐██████     ████     ██████▌
 ███████     ████     ███████
▐████████▄▄▄██████▄▄▄████████▌
▐████████████████████████████▌
 █████▄▄▀▀▀▀██████▀▀▀▀▄▄█████
  ▀▀██████          ██████▀▀
      ▀▀▀            ▀▀▀
Pages: « 1 [2]  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!