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Author Topic: I thought Trezor's were suppose to be secure?  (Read 316 times)
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March 25, 2019, 08:50:30 PM
 #21

Hi BitMaxz,

I went through that process they explained, thank you for providing that. 

1) I wiped the Trezor
2) Restored wallet using the recovery seeds, and enabled the passphrase. Then when it asked me to login I used the 25th word from the recovery seed to see if that was the passphrase for the wallet.

nope that didn't work. Which I was hoping it would have.



Same issue no transactions, no coins, and the logo on the device didn't change.


I was hoping that would of worked
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March 27, 2019, 07:57:34 AM
Merited by bones261 (2)
 #22

As everyone else has explained... Seed Mnemonic (ie. 24 words) + Passphrase = Used to generate actual seed that your wallets are built off of.

For Trezor, the Seed mnemonics adhere to a set standard (BIP39) which includes a limited set of words and a checksum to determine if the mnemonic is "valid". Given that you are NOT getting any seed mnemonic errors, then the issue is likely with the "passphrase" that you are attempting to use.

As described here: https://wiki.trezor.io/Passphrase
Important remarks
The selected passphrase works like the additional word of the recovery seed that is not stored on the device. Every time you access your wallet you need to enter exactly the same passphrase. If you mistype the passphrase, a different (typically empty) wallet is opened. Of course, you can use this feature to have more independent wallets based on the same recovery seed.

This means that both the recovery seed and the passphrase (if used) are essential for the recovery of a wallet. Also, the passphrase feature does not really encrypt the seed or the wallet, it is itself part of the seed. So maybe the term passphrase encryption should not be used.

Unfortunately, there is not "standard" for a user-specified passphrase, and can be literally any combination of letters, numbers and symbols... up to the Trezor limit of 50 characters.

And the warning on that same page would apply:
Quote
Warning Keep your passphrase in a safe place. In case you forget your passphrase, your funds protected by it are lost forever.

There is no way to recover a "lost" passphrase... perhaps try "variations" of what you believe your passphrase was and test typos/spelling mistakes etc? Huh Undecided


Then when it asked me to login I used the 25th word from the recovery seed to see if that was the passphrase for the wallet.
nope that didn't work. Which I was hoping it would have.
Do you have a 25th word writtent down on your recovery card? Huh Trezor ONE seeds are generally only 24 words... So, If you don't recognise that "25th word" as the passphrase that you think you were previously logging in... perhaps it is actually a "hint" that you left yourself as to what your passphrase was? Huh

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March 27, 2019, 01:14:59 PM
Merited by vapourminer (1)
 #23

1) I wiped the Trezor
2) Restored wallet using the recovery seeds, and enabled the passphrase. Then when it asked me to login I used the 25th word from the recovery seed to see if that was the passphrase for the wallet.

nope that didn't work. Which I was hoping it would have.

Same issue no transactions, no coins, and the logo on the device didn't change.


Maybe the hardware is faulty and its internal storage is corrupted. Have you bought the wallet from SatoshiLabs (trezor.io) directly or did you purchase via a 3rd party reseller?

Either way worst case you should be able to retrieve your funds either via (a) a new Trezor or (b) Electrum. With (a) likely leaving a bit of a bitter taste in your mouth while (b) will expose your private keys to an online device.

Should you want to give (b) a try, look at the instructions here ("Recovering funds without Trezor device"):
https://wiki.trezor.io/Apps:Electrum

To reduce the risk from exposing your private key to an online device, consider booting from a tails disk, which comes with Electrum preinstalled:
https://tails.boum.org/install/

If you have a second device at hand that you could use for cold storage (ie. kept offline at all times), consider wiping this secondary device clean and setting up cold storage using Electrum:
http://docs.electrum.org/en/latest/coldstorage.html

Come to think of it, you could also go with option (c), restoring your Trezor wallet to a Ledger Nano S:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/7tdm1y/can_i_restore_a_trezor_on_to_a_ledger_nano_s/


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April 05, 2019, 10:14:01 AM
 #24

Thank you for you response.

Here is what I would really love your help with guys. I have read all the articles you guys have sent me a few times to see if I understand this a lot better. I want to thank you for that. These have been a lot of help.

I thought I did know the passphase I sent up with the Trezor originally, it was one I normally used and for some reason it is not working.

Here is the process I have been doing to try to recover my wallet

1 - Wipe the device
2-  Go to trezor.io/start
3- Click on recover wallet
4- Click on 24 words
up to this point I have no errors so I am doing this correctly... I think

Here is where I need help with, on step #5 below. I used a passphrase and a pin number to encrypt my account when I originally set up my Trezor wallet. I know what the passphrase is, I am sure. It appears here might be the issue because from what I read on line even if I am successful in entering the 24 words for the recovery if I do not use the correct passphrase that I configured with the wallet I will be just creating new wallets each time and will not recover my original wallet with my cryptocurrency.

5- Click on "I used passphrase before" click no this only if.....
 

My questions to you is:

1) If I configured a passphrase when I originally setup my wallet as I go through the recovery of my wallet on step #5 do I click on "I used a passphrase before"?

2) If I enter in the wrong passphrase does it just keep creating a new wallet each time?

3) Why in this process if I enter in the wrong passphrase does it not just say wrong passphrase and the process does not let me create a new wallet?

4) If I have the original transfer information from the Exchange I purchased the Cryptocurrency and then transferred it from. Is there a a manual way to recover the Cryptocurrency? For example I have the

Date
Amount
TXID:
Address:



Thank you,



P.S. remember I am still a Newbie at this and am learning as you guys have been great teaching what I should have know all of this before and wrote more down when I originally set up my Trezor.

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April 05, 2019, 10:36:27 AM
Merited by bones261 (1), Pmalek (1)
 #25

Here is the process I have been doing to try to recover my wallet

1 - Wipe the device
2-  Go to trezor.io/start
3- Click on recover wallet
4- Click on 24 words
up to this point I have no errors so I am doing this correctly... I think
Yes, that is the standard recovery method using your 24 words..


Quote
Here is where I need help with, on step #5 below. I used a passphrase and a pin number to encrypt my account when I originally set up my Trezor wallet. I know what the passphrase is, I am sure. It appears here might be the issue because from what I read on line even if I am successful in entering the 24 words for the recovery if I do not use the correct passphrase that I configured with the wallet I will be just creating new wallets each time and will not recover my original wallet with my cryptocurrency.
That is correct... when you use the "passphrase" functionality, you are effectively adding a "25th word"... this "extra word" results in the wallet generating a completely different seed, from which it will logically generate a complete different set of private keys and addresses (ie. a different wallet).

Note:  It could actually be a sentence or multiple words rather than a single word... "25th word" is just used for convenience.


Quote
5- Click on "I used passphrase before" click no this only if.....

My questions to you is:
1) If I configured a passphrase when I originally setup my wallet as I go through the recovery of my wallet on step #5 do I click on "I used a passphrase before"?
Yes


Quote
2) If I enter in the wrong passphrase does it just keep creating a new wallet each time?
Your 24 words + passphraseA = WalletA
Your 24 words + passphraseB = WalletB
...
Your 24 words + passphraseX = WalletX

So, if you enter the same "wrong passphrase"... you will generate the same "wrong wallet"


Quote
3) Why in this process if I enter in the wrong passphrase does it not just say wrong passphrase and the process does not let me create a new wallet?
ANY passphrase used will generate a valid seed and therefore a valid wallet... it might not be the wallet you want, but it will be valid. Therefore, there is simply no way that any wallet software would be able to determine if your passphrase is wrong.


Quote
4) If I have the original transfer information from the Exchange I purchased the Cryptocurrency and then transferred it from. Is there a a manual way to recover the Cryptocurrency? For example I have the Date/Amount/TXID:/Address:
Using that information alone, the answer is NO. The only way to recovery that cryptocurrency, is to have the appropriate private keys... the only way to get those private keys is to restore your Trezor.

Using some of that information (ie. the address in your Trezor that you sent the funds to) + your 24 words + What you believe your passphrase is + LOTS of time... you might be able to discover what your passphrase was using some "brute force" methods using tools like "btcrecover"... However, it isn't very likely unless your passphrase is VERY simplistic (ie. less than 8 characters and only numbers/letters)... Anything longer or more complicated than that, and your chances of recovery go from very very very small to nonexistent Undecided

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April 09, 2019, 02:03:26 PM
 #26

Let this be a lesson that the passphrase feature in the Trezor is for advanced users only: https://wiki.trezor.io/Passphrase

Each passphrase is mixed with the seed stored in the Trezor to create a unique wallet. The confusing thing here is that the OP says he has a record of that passphrase and it's not working to recover his wallet. Could it be that he copied and pasted and is somehow off by a character, or something strange like that? Passphrases are case sensitive. The only thing I'd suggest, as someone else posted, is to brute force it - though this may just be a time-waster.

Here is more information.
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April 09, 2019, 03:56:25 PM
 #27

Thank you.

What bothers me the most is that before the update to Trezor I was able to login with the passphrase I had with no problems. Once I updated the Trezor this all started to happen.

I have retried the passphrase that I was using before with no luck. This is just so frustrating....

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April 09, 2019, 08:28:28 PM
 #28

If you are 110% sure that you are using exactly the same passphrase... then the only other explanation would be that the recovery seed mnemonic you have used is "wrong". That is to say, it's a valid seed mnemonic (otherwise you would not have been able to restore using it), but it isn't the seed mnemonic that was used to generate the seed your wallet was actually using. Undecided

If you had any transactions conducted before you used the passphrase feature, then they should show up just with the seed mnemonic and an empty passphrase, which would at least confirm you have the correct seed mnemonic.

Have you ever restored using this seed mnemonic before? Huh

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April 21, 2019, 07:39:01 PM
 #29

It’s like having a key to your house. If you lose/dispose it, you don’t lose your house. You can just use your backup key to unlock the door.
Thank you for that explanation and analogy.  I am just getting interested in hardware wallets and don't fully understand them yet, and I am bewildered by how many are on the market too.

(excellence)
If I had another merit to give, you would have it for your post.  That was very helpful.

I'm still not sure if I truly need a hardware wallet, as I haven't had any issues with Electrum and keeping my seed phrases safe, but there is something elegant and simple in the designs of some of these hardware wallets and I really want to get one.  It is nice to hear an explanation of some of the security stuff beforehand, so thank you for that.

 
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April 22, 2019, 07:55:47 AM
 #30

I'm still not sure if I truly need a hardware wallet, as I haven't had any issues with Electrum...
It is worthwhile investing in one, especially if you posses or plan to purchase a significant amount of coins.
Electrum is a safe software wallet, sure, but it will never be as safe as having your private information on a paper wallet stored away safely or on a hardware wallet where the private keys never leave the safe environment of the device in the first place.

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