smooth
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April 11, 2015, 12:52:04 AM |
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But instead of discussing the obvious, you can turn this into a useful scam. The technology behind it is unquestionably great and can provide a proof-of-concept. So, fork and do it better. There is no "instead" that is a false dichotomy. Both forking and calling out has been done and continues to be done. And don't worry with people buying this coin. If they are buying a clearly scam coin, let them do this. Good luck for them, maybe they can do some profit, although improbable. Or maybe they deserve to be scammed. The history behind this is very well-documented here ( https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=740112.0 ), so we don't need to go to every topic about this coin to do the same discurse, as anti-scam paladines. Sorry, I don't agree. Allowing it to spread without being challenged is part of what makes it happen. Or only challenged for a short time, and then, after some nachiog-imposed deadline, scammers who are persistent enough get a free pass. Same with Paycoin and every other scam. A scam doesn't become not a scam just it is old and you find it "fucking annoying" to keep hearing about it. If you don't like it, sign off and ignore the scam (and the challenges to it). Yes it sucks that people scam, but part of the problem with this environment is that honest people don't push back against it. Things are changing though. Slowly, but they are. It's part of cryptocurrency reaching some minimum level of maturity. |
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nachoig
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April 11, 2015, 01:37:22 AM |
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There is no "instead" that is a false dichotomy. Both forking and calling out has been done and continues to be done.
Yeah, I know and really appreciate the work what was done about this. Sorry, I don't agree. Allowing it to spread without being challenged is part of what makes it happen. Or only challenged for a short time, and then, after some nachiog-imposed deadline, scammers who are persistent enough get a free pass. Same with Paycoin and every other scam.
A scam doesn't become not a scam just it is old and you find it "fucking annoying" to keep hearing about it. If you don't like it, sign off and ignore the scam (and the challenges to it).
Yes it sucks that people scam, but part of the problem with this environment is that honest people don't push back against it. The issue here is because this practice is damaging more the reputation of the honest coins than of the scams. A lot of people here have a bad opinion about Monero because its core team and Monero's fanboys/fangirls (sometimes with sockpuppet accounts) are going to "overcriticize" and importunate Dash, Bytecoin or even Bitcoin over this forum, and sometimes just to promote Monero. Things are changing though. Slowly, but they are. It's part of cryptocurrency reaching some minimum level of maturity.
I'm not sure if we're going to mature. In my opinon, it seems the things are moving in the opposite direction. Some time ago I saw a topic suggesting to kill the altcoin section of this forum. Although it sounds absurd, it makes some sense. Unfortunately, people are abusing of this section. Also, I think a good altcoin should have its own community pages and forums, instead of (ab)using the Bitcoin's community infrastructure. |
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nade70
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April 11, 2015, 02:06:45 AM |
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If this is a long con, they are certainly putting in a lot of effort. So far they have been public for a year and now have a long vision road map. No sign of a dump yet but the market isn't big enough if you want to make retirement money.
When does a long con turn into a business plan?
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smooth
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April 11, 2015, 02:21:04 AM
Last edit: April 11, 2015, 06:50:08 AM by smooth |
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If this is a long con, they are certainly putting in a lot of effort. So far they have been public for a year and now have a long vision road map. No sign of a dump yet but the market isn't big enough if you want to make retirement money.
When does a long con turn into a business plan?
They own roughly 80% (possibly more by now) of the coins and the market cap is around 4 million USD so theoretically -- on paper at least -- they've made 3.2 million USD on it. Obviously the more newbs can be pulled in the more they can cash out and/or pump that higher. Not a bad plan. I doubt it taking a year to score was the plan from the start, but as long as there seems to be promise the numbers add up to continuing to try (see previous paragraph). |
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smooth
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April 11, 2015, 02:26:08 AM |
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Sorry, I don't agree. Allowing it to spread without being challenged is part of what makes it happen. Or only challenged for a short time, and then, after some nachiog-imposed deadline, scammers who are persistent enough get a free pass. Same with Paycoin and every other scam.
A scam doesn't become not a scam just it is old and you find it "fucking annoying" to keep hearing about it. If you don't like it, sign off and ignore the scam (and the challenges to it).
Yes it sucks that people scam, but part of the problem with this environment is that honest people don't push back against it. The issue here is because this practice is damaging more the reputation of the honest coins than of the scams. A lot of people here have a bad opinion about Monero because its core team and Monero's fanboys/fangirls (sometimes with sockpuppet accounts) are going to "overcriticize" and importunate Dash, Bytecoin or even Bitcoin over this forum, and sometimes just to promote Monero. I guess you can't please everybody all the time. Nevertheless, I will continue to speak out against and fight scams in every way I can, which includes encouraging other honest people to do the same. |
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nachoig
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April 11, 2015, 03:25:16 AM |
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I guess you can't please everybody all the time.
Nevertheless, I will continue to speak out against and fight scams in every way I can, which includes encouraging other honest people to do the same.
Anyway I'm curious to see what the future deserves to this coin. With the current price (9 satoshi) and the current coin generation (48818.11), the rewards per block in BTC is just BTC0.00439363 per block, or around BTC0.02196815 each 10 minutes. Hashrate is around 1,6 million. I don't understand much about mining, but how this can be sustainable against attacks on the network (also you have to consider this is not just about Bytecoin, but every CryptoNight coin with merged mining with BCN)? Just to compare, Monero hashrate is now about 16 million (10 times more) and generates around BTC 0.37 in mining rewards each 10 minutes (10.7868 XMR per block at 0.00340335 BTC per XMR, or 15 times more). |
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smooth
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April 11, 2015, 03:34:45 AM |
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I guess you can't please everybody all the time.
Nevertheless, I will continue to speak out against and fight scams in every way I can, which includes encouraging other honest people to do the same.
Anyway I'm curious to see what the future deserves to this coin. With the current price (9 satoshi) and the current coin generation (48818.11), the rewards per block in BTC is just BTC0.00439363 per block, or around BTC0.02196815 each 10 minutes. Hashrate is around 1,6 million. This is indeed one of the practical problems with premined/instamined/fastmined coins. The mining rewards drop too fast (or just start out small) relative to adoption and then it isn't secure. I don't understand much about mining, but how this can be sustainable against attacks on the network (also you have to consider this is not just about Bytecoin, but every CryptoNight coin with merged mining with BCN)? Just to compare, Monero hashrate is now about 16 million (10 times more) and generates around BTC 0.37 in mining rewards each 10 minutes (10.7868 XMR per block at 0.00340335 BTC per XMR, or 15 times more).
Few if any alts are really secure against hash rate attacks. And then, not even Bitcoin is if you consider that its enemies could be playing with billions of USD. Attacking it probably costs hundreds of millions. |
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nachoig
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April 11, 2015, 03:44:01 AM |
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This is indeed one of the practical problems with premined/instamined/fastmined coins. The mining rewards drop too fast (or just start out small) relative to adoption and then it isn't secure.
In this way, it should make some sense to launch a cripped miner, just to difficult other entities to execute this type of attack. But in this case, you need to trust in the original developers, and being totally unknown entities, this doesn't sound good. Also anyone can develop a better miner. Few if any alts are really secure against hash rate attacks. And then, not even Bitcoin is if you consider that its enemies could be playing with billions of USD. Attacking it probably costs hundreds of millions.
Yeah, I have readed a paper about the cost of doing a 51% attack against Bitcoin, you need less than 200 million USD to execute this for one month (counting equipment and electricity costs). |
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bytemuma
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April 12, 2015, 02:43:32 PM |
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I like cryptoNote coins, and i am a little confused because there are users saying that bytecoin did not existed before 2014 and the blockchain was faked, if so, how is it possible that exist forks before 2014?  |
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cryptrol
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April 12, 2015, 05:15:30 PM |
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I like cryptoNote coins, and i am a little confused because there are users saying that bytecoin did not existed before 2014 and the blockchain was faked, if so, how is it possible that exist forks before 2014?
Bytecoin claims to have launched on 2012, so far there is no irrefutable evidence of this but the timestamps on the blockchain itself, and this could have been easily faked with a relatively low amount of computing power since the diff was so low. Since there is no real evidence, you are left trusting the devs in this. |
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nachoig
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April 12, 2015, 06:45:29 PM
Last edit: April 12, 2015, 07:07:28 PM by nachoig |
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I like cryptoNote coins, and i am a little confused because there are users saying that bytecoin did not existed before 2014 and the blockchain was faked, if so, how is it possible that exist forks before 2014? Probably the existence of these coins (Paladincoin and Buddhacoin) are fake too. Maybe someone is creating these websites just to try to bring legimacy about the story behind the existence of Bytecoin since 2012. I can't find information about Palladincoin because it's a .onion website and I don't have the Tor Browser and there's nothing at Google, but the case of Buddhacoin the website is here (I discovered through Map of Coins, how they discovered it, as well Paladincoin is a mystery): http://buddhacoin.pixub.com/The lack of the source code in the download page (only binaries) and the way the news are posted are a red flag. BTW, there is another link from CryptoNote forum about Buddhacoin. https://forum.cryptonote.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=582Edit: if someone uses Tor and is interested to try to discover something about Paladincoin: http://xxvxqnbatbidn4tq.onion/ |
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cryptrol
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April 12, 2015, 08:19:02 PM |
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It's an abandoned (no posts since 2013) WoW forum, so totally unrelated. Also looking at http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://buddhacoin.pixub.com/ there is nothing older than this years April 4. So probably more of the usual bullshit. |
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bytemuma
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April 12, 2015, 08:47:08 PM |
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It's an abandoned (no posts since 2013) WoW forum, so totally unrelated. Also looking at http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://buddhacoin.pixub.com/ there is nothing older than this years April 4. So probably more of the usual bullshit. If is abandoned since oct 2013 this proves that bytecoin existed before so they forked, Is my line of thinking correct? |
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bytemuma
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April 12, 2015, 09:02:19 PM |
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I think this is the announcement thread of paladin i also downloaded the binaries they are *.jar, this is java correct.  |
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smooth
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April 12, 2015, 09:23:31 PM |
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It's an abandoned (no posts since 2013) WoW forum, so totally unrelated. Also looking at http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://buddhacoin.pixub.com/ there is nothing older than this years April 4. So probably more of the usual bullshit. If is abandoned since oct 2013 this proves that bytecoin existed before so they forked, Is my line of thinking correct? Where is the evidence that this or the other alleged "old" fork existed before April 4: It is quite sad that the people behind this scam think that the route to success is to keep doubling down on the fraud instead of trying to find a way to break from their earlier lies. It seems like some sort of mental illness. |
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nachoig
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April 12, 2015, 09:25:56 PM
Last edit: April 12, 2015, 09:55:33 PM by nachoig |
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It's an abandoned (no posts since 2013) WoW forum, so totally unrelated. Also looking at http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://buddhacoin.pixub.com/ there is nothing older than this years April 4. So probably more of the usual bullshit. If is abandoned since oct 2013 this proves that bytecoin existed before so they forked, Is my line of thinking correct? According to kazuki49, who posted this image first, it was founded at Wikipedia's page about CryptoNote: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1011558.msg11067467#msg11067467The image was uploaded to it on March 25, claiming to be the own work of the user's based on MapofCoins' informations by MARIODOESBREAKFAST. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Forks-tree.pngIt seems is very easy to submit a new coin to MapofCoins now, and probably the operators of that site are not being very careful to verify the data: http://mapofcoins.com/contributionThe references about these coins were added at the same date earlier by antother user, Terry Richard: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=CryptoNote&diff=653453338&oldid=653446719As a big coincidence, the topic about Bytecoin's new website and development roadmap appeared just 6 days after this. And 11 days after Buddhacoin appearing at CryptoNote forum. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1008146.msg10939927#msg10939927I think this is the announcement thread of paladin i also downloaded the binaries they are *.jar, this is java correct. And again, no source code. How many coins claiming to exist before Bytecoin's real date launch will appear now? _______________ Edit: Archiving the downloads page of Buddhacoin: https://archive.today/cqzxlAnd the CryptoNote forum topic about this coin: https://archive.today/t9OI8Edit2: Re-reading the topic from the CryptoNote forum (4th post). Spring 2013? Hmmmm... The development of C++ implementation started back in Spring 2013 and was finished by Autumn. |
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bytemuma
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April 12, 2015, 10:23:56 PM |
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It's an abandoned (no posts since 2013) WoW forum, so totally unrelated. Also looking at http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://buddhacoin.pixub.com/ there is nothing older than this years April 4. So probably more of the usual bullshit. If is abandoned since oct 2013 this proves that bytecoin existed before so they forked, Is my line of thinking correct? According to kazuki49, who posted this image first, it was founded at Wikipedia's page about CryptoNote: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1011558.msg11067467#msg11067467The image was uploaded to it on March 25, claiming to be the own work of the user's based on MapofCoins' informations by MARIODOESBREAKFAST. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Forks-tree.pngIt seems is very easy to submit a new coin to MapofCoins now, and probably the operators of that site are not being very careful to verify the data: http://mapofcoins.com/contributionThe references about these coins were added at the same date earlier by antother user, Terry Richard: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=CryptoNote&diff=653453338&oldid=653446719As a big coincidence, the topic about Bytecoin's new website and development roadmap appeared just 6 days after this. And 11 days after Buddhacoin appearing at CryptoNote forum. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1008146.msg10939927#msg10939927I think this is the announcement thread of paladin i also downloaded the binaries they are *.jar, this is java correct. And again, no source code. How many coins claiming to exist before Bytecoin's real date launch will appear now? _______________ Edit: Archiving the downloads page of Buddhacoin: https://archive.today/cqzxlAnd the CryptoNote forum topic about this coin: https://archive.today/t9OI8Edit2: Re-reading the topic from the CryptoNote forum (4th post). Spring 2013? Hmmmm... The development of C++ implementation started back in Spring 2013 and was finished by Autumn. You can download the source code in the announcement forum. This is all a mess, can someone with the expertise inspect the forum and the source code of paladin. |
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nachoig
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April 12, 2015, 10:28:27 PM |
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You can download the source code in the announcement forum.
Sorry, you claimed to have downloaded the binaries, not the source code. I didn't look at the page as I don't have Tor here. |
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bytemuma
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April 12, 2015, 10:33:04 PM |
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You can download the source code in the announcement forum.
Sorry, you claimed to have downloaded the binaries, not the source code. I didn't look at the page as I don't have Tor here. Its not the same?  ? Sorry for my ignorance  |
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smooth
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April 12, 2015, 11:38:56 PM |
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I've never heard of buddhacoin before, so this mean Bytecoin was actually made in java? It could not have been launched in 2012 then unless they converted the blockchain thus making it look fake. It means a Java clone of Bytecoin was created (for what reason is unclear), packaged up (most iikely with fake file dates and old libraries), and a bunch of fake "coins" and websites claiming to be from 2012/2013 were put up to again provide fabricated support for the "two years in the deep web" claims. Bytecoin (and/or "Cryptonote reference code" as it isn't really clear which came first if either) was implemented from scratch in mid-late 2013, and released with a premined blockchain in early 2014. The rest is fake. |
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