Buy the DIP, and HODL!

[Tamaperdana]

[edited out]

Considering my situation, your advice is quite reasonable and effective. Because I live with my family although I am not dependent, I have to be accountable to them for the family income, this is my hereditary principle. However due to my job, I can save even a small amount but the amount is very small and I can deposit it continuously. As a result I have invested some amount in Bitcoin earlier. I have some more savings which I am going to invest now. But I think that after one or two years from now if I can save more, can I invest in Bitcoin again with that? This Bitcoin has already motivated me. So I regret a lot for not being able to invest now or a little earlier, although I had nothing to do. And maybe I will regret it again two years from now. But I am constrained by the current situation. Anyway, I am very satisfied with your statement.

I don't know why you are asking whether to invest or not.  That is your choice, and there are consequences whether you choose to invest or not to invest, so if you are going to invest, you have to figure out your position size. .and yeah, 2 years sounds like you are planning to trade rather than to invest.

In bitcoin, you probably should be considering putting money in for 4-10 years or longer if you are wanting to consider what you are doing to be an investment rather than a trade.

Do you have money that you can spare for 4-10 years or longer or not.  If you don't then maybe you should not be putting your money into bitcoin until you are able to figure out your discretionary money to such an extent that you know that you have extra money that you can put in.

I doubt anyone convince you what to do but yourself.

There are sure a lot of low coiners and no coiners in the world who are choosing not to invest into bitcoin, and do you want to be one of those?  Maybe you don't know and you have to figure that part out?  The longer you wait to get into bitcoin has its own issues too, so many guys can learn as they go, so you just pick your investment size and you continue to study bitcoin, whether you are able to begin with $100 per week or $10 per week or some other amount that you consider to be in your budget and you are not going to need that money for 4-10 years or longer.

By the way, some folks have considered bitcoin to be the best place to put your extra money, yet if you have not figured that out or you don't believe it, then you have to figure out your position size in accordance with your beliefs, including figuring out whether you are going to wait (and if you believe waiting is a good investment strategy) or get started and start buying regularly, consistently, persistently and ongoingly while you are also figuring out your own financial and/or psychological situation.

You are absolutely right that my investment will depend on me whether I invest or not or where I invest. But since I have little investment experience or knowledge of Bitcoin and digital currencies, that is why I am asking so much about investment. I really believe that I can explore the right knowledge and principles on this board and there are many wise people on this board including you from whom I can find the right advice because as I have already said that my experience or knowledge is very little.
And I believe in your words with all my heart that my own enthusiasm will be more effective and reliable than the enthusiasm of others to do anything in this world. But for that I have to gain knowledge myself first, and only then can I make the right decision myself. That is why I have approached you so that I can follow your experience and move forward.
I thought that I would get a good profit from Bitcoin investment after one or two years. But in the light of your kind opinions and experience, I now see that I was completely wrong. I have to plan my investment for a longer period.
Now I can reorganize my plan and get out of a serious situation. This is my biggest achievement.

What you are doing now is very right, friend, because you dare to ask and also discuss first before deciding to invest in bitcoin. Because there are quite a few people who don't understand Bitcoin, but immediately invest in it under the pretext of wanting to quickly double their money by investing in the short term of 1 to 2 years (or what could also be called trading). But you don't seem like that kind of person because you studied or asked first before starting to invest in bitcoin. So now according to my assumption, you already understand what the difference is between investing and trading. Therefore, now you just have to look for money that can actually be invested in Bitcoin (cold money). Then if you already have it, I guess you can just buy bitcoin on an exchange and keep it in your wallet safely.

And I remind you, if you have bought bitcoin and stored it in your wallet. Don't forget to write your wallet phrase and keep it in a safe place. Then the paper containing the wallet phrase code must be laminated directly. So the paper is not eaten by termites and remains safe even if stored for years.

[JayJuanGee]

[edited out]

You are absolutely right that my investment will depend on me whether I invest or not or where I invest. But since I have little investment experience or knowledge of Bitcoin and digital currencies, that is why I am asking so much about investment. I really believe that I can explore the right knowledge and principles on this board and there are many wise people on this board including you from whom I can find the right advice because as I have already said that my experience or knowledge is very little.
And I believe in your words with all my heart that my own enthusiasm will be more effective and reliable than the enthusiasm of others to do anything in this world. But for that I have to gain knowledge myself first, and only then can I make the right decision myself. That is why I have approached you so that I can follow your experience and move forward.
I thought that I would get a good profit from Bitcoin investment after one or two years. But in the light of your kind opinions and experience, I now see that I was completely wrong. I have to plan my investment for a longer period.
Now I can reorganize my plan and get out of a serious situation. This is my biggest achievement.

In your earlier post, you had stated that you had already started buying bitcoin, so just continue to buy bitcoin and to learn about it as you go, yet the main thing to learn is your own cashflow management, and to make sure that you are investing from your discretionary income, which is the money that you have available that you can spend that you do not need for your expenses or even that you are going to want for other later reasons.. so it would be money that you are just continuing to put on the side for 4-10 years or longer, and if you are young, then the investment timeline would likely be 15-20 years or more. 

Of course, you are free to do whatever you like and you can choose to trade bitcoin rather than invest it, so if the BTC price goes up by 50% or to double or triple, then you cash out some of your investment into bitcoin, yet that would not really be investing, and you would likely be selling one of the best, if not the best of assets, so it would be a problem that you had spent time accumulating so much of such a good asset like bitcoin and end up spending all of it or trying to sell it higher and to buy back cheaper, which may or may not work out for you as compared to a practice of just keeping on buying bitcoin until you are later able to start to draw upon it, which again seems something that you may well want to let your bitcoin investment ride for quite a few years rather than withdrawing it before the bitcoin had chances to compound its value upon itself several times.

There are no guarantees with any investment, so there is a need to figure out how much you are going to invest, yet since bitcoin is an asymmetrical bet to the upside it is also quite possible that you are able to invest over the years and to end up compounding your value since the most you can lose is 100% of your investment, but there are also quite a few decently upside potentials in bitcoin to continue to grow as it has in the past, even if the slope of the upside curve might not be as steep as it had been historically.

So whether you keep adding to your bitcoin stash is your choice ($100 per week, $10 per week or some other amount that you consider reasonable/feasible/prudent), and your figuring out your personal factors is probably a good idea, but it is also your choice regarding how much you attempt to plan ahead in regards to your cashflow including your income versus your expenses versus how much you are putting into bitcoin.  It can take a while to figure out your personal factors and then to balance them out and they are a moving target too, since it is quite likely that your income and expenses are changing with the passage of time, and maybe you also have expenses of working on building skills and increasing your employment and income opportunities (such as going to school/university), and so anyone thinking that they are going to substitute their short-to-medium term income with bitcoin appreciation income is likely thinking wrongly about bitcoin since in many cases it takes years and years and years before you are likely to get your BTC stash to a high enough level where you can start to live off of it or to supplement your other income with it. 

Historically, aggressive bitcoin investors might have had been able to build their BTC stack within a cycle or two, yet these days it may well take longer than a cycle or two to get your BTC stack to a high enough level that it could sustainably support your expenses or to sufficiently supplement your expenses where it would start to make sense to transition from your BTC accumulation stages and into your BTC withdrawal stages.  It makes no sense to sell any BTC until you have reached your BTC withdrawal stages, and only you can figure out those stages, and if you fuck it up no one is going to bail you out.  You are responsible for your own fuck ups, including if you treat bitcoin as a trade rather than an investment.  Those are your choices, completely.

In traditional financial planning, you would usually need to get to about 25 years of your income/expenses to be able to sustain yourself from your investment at a 4% withdrawal rate.  I personally believe that bitcoin allows you to sustainably withdraw at a 10% withdrawal rate which would mean that you ONLY need 10 years of your income/expenses, yet I am also using the 200-weekly moving average as the way to measure the value of your BTC stash and various other withdrawal constraints, especially if you might be in your earlier years of just meeting the minimum thresholds in which your valuation of your BTC holdings appears to be enough...since there can always be dangers in attempting to withdraw too much too quickly and there after depleting your BTC stash at a rate faster than it is growing, which would no longer be sustainable and would defeat the purposes of anyone who prematurely thought that he reached fuck you status but he either misvaluated his BTC stash or he was too aggressive in his attempted employment of what he thought would be sustainable withdrawal practices. I discuss price based and time based sustainable withdrawal strategies in one of my threads, yet my presumption for anyone attempting to employ those strategies is to reach a status of over accumulation of BTC prior to employment of either of the strategies.  I consider them as not being trading strategies, even though so many folks love to trade/gamble, and so sometimes it is difficult to save folks from themselves, since in the end people can do what they like and they are responsible for the consequences of their own actions, good and bad.

[Y3shot]

There's no need to be scared of the volatile part of bitcoin, and this is where the DCA strategy will help you a lot in accumulating bitcoin without being bothered or scared by the volatile part of bitcoin. As a newbie, the DCA strategy is the perfect strategy to use when accumulating bitcoin because it allows you to consistently accumulate bitcoin either on a weekly or monthly basis when your money is readily available. The DCA strategy will also help to control your emotions because you will not be moved by the volatile part of bitcoin since you will be accumulating bitcoin at different prices, which will allow you to accumulate bitcoin even when there is a dip and it will give you the opportunity to take advantage of the volatile part of bitcoin.

Only those who invest what they can't afford  would be scared of volatility and the reason for DCA a method is for investors to just only buy the amount of Bitcoin that they afford, this helps in accumulating bitcoin without any stress and with this method of investing their is no need to be scared of the volatility of the market because you are not expecting profit in a short time. DCA method of investing is a longterm investment which you don't have any business of volatility for profit so soon, you only just take advantage of the dip whenever you come across it because it is also a good opportunity for investors to but during the dip. DCA method of investment is all about buying bitcoin at the rate which you can afford and no need for fear of volatility because it is not an investment one is depending to make profit very quick .

[Issa56]

Although I trust Bitcoin and I am a new investor. Sometimes the volatile market conditions scare me and ruin some enjoyable moments.

As an investor, if your bitcoin investment plan is for the long term, then why do you have to be scared of the market volatility? I don’t even think it’s even necessary to be checking chat. As long as you are investing for the long term, then the best thing is for you to make use of the DCA strategy, and if you have accumulated enough bitcoin, then just forget about it, you don’t even have to be checking the market frequently, because if there is a slight increase in bitcoin price, as a beginner you might be tempted to sell, and maybe you will want to buy back if the price drops again.
 
If you are a trader, then you should focus more on charts, but as a long-term investor, I don’t really think you need more of that, because your plan is to hold for the long term, and you won’t be selling soon, so any market movement shouldn’t even disturb you.

[Agbamoni]

Only those who invest what they can't afford  would be scared of volatility and the reason for DCA a method is for investors to just only buy the amount of Bitcoin that they afford, this helps in accumulating bitcoin without any stress and with this method of investing their is no need to be scared of the volatility of the market because you are not expecting profit in a short time. DCA method of investing is a longterm investment which you don't have any business of volatility for profit so soon, you only just take advantage of the dip whenever you come across it because it is also a good opportunity for investors to but during the dip. DCA method of investment is all about buying bitcoin at the rate which you can afford and no need for fear of volatility because it is not an investment one is depending to make profit very quick .

You make a great point. An investor should probably know how to retain and increase purchasing power if not volatility will be a thing that they know of but will be scared of. And even in DCA investors might get low on funds in purchasing Bitcoin with the actual amount they've been using. Most times it is a result of lacking a steady stream of income which may be that they lost their job without having a business or any other investment to tap from. To be more realistic, investors and aspiring investors should have a decent approach while investing. They need to be smart and watch the source they get the money they use for their investment. Whenever we feel uncomfortable with our investment, we can have a shift in the amount we use in investing so we don't crumble our business or do anything that will affect the source of our income. While accumulation is important if we see a means to make more money than we can venture into it after making observations and having our conclusion on it. This doesn't mean we get to stop our accumulation entirely. Rather we can reduce the percentage we use in investing so we can get things right and working smoothly for us. Although it might take some period for the business or investment to start yielding something for us. In the end it's still a better approach.

[ginsan]

Only those who invest what they can't afford  would be scared of volatility and the reason for DCA a method is for investors to just only buy the amount of Bitcoin that they afford, this helps in accumulating bitcoin without any stress and with this method of investing their is no need to be scared of the volatility of the market because you are not expecting profit in a short time. DCA method of investing is a longterm investment which you don't have any business of volatility for profit so soon, you only just take advantage of the dip whenever you come across it because it is also a good opportunity for investors to but during the dip. DCA method of investment is all about buying bitcoin at the rate which you can afford and no need for fear of volatility because it is not an investment one is depending to make profit very quick .

Investing in bitcoin the right way by buying it regularly with a DCA strategy. Adjusting cash flow properly, emergency funds, reserve funds and funds for execution. I think no one is afraid to invest in bitcoin but because they don't plan well they are not consistent in investing.

I also agree with you, we can set aside monthly income to invest in bitcoin, invest with money that we don't use for our daily needs. The important thing is that we must understand that investing in bitcoin is not for the short term but for the long term, so there are many periods that we will go through each year to buy Bitcoin.
Buying Bitcoin can be done through a trusted Exchange and withdrawing it to a personal wallet to be held in the long term.

[Taskford]

There's no need to be scared of the volatile part of bitcoin, and this is where the DCA strategy will help you a lot in accumulating bitcoin without being bothered or scared by the volatile part of bitcoin. As a newbie, the DCA strategy is the perfect strategy to use when accumulating bitcoin because it allows you to consistently accumulate bitcoin either on a weekly or monthly basis when your money is readily available. The DCA strategy will also help to control your emotions because you will not be moved by the volatile part of bitcoin since you will be accumulating bitcoin at different prices, which will allow you to accumulate bitcoin even when there is a dip and it will give you the opportunity to take advantage of the volatile part of bitcoin.

Only those who invest what they can't afford  would be scared of volatility and the reason for DCA a method is for investors to just only buy the amount of Bitcoin that they afford, this helps in accumulating bitcoin without any stress and with this method of investing their is no need to be scared of the volatility of the market because you are not expecting profit in a short time. DCA method of investing is a longterm investment which you don't have any business of volatility for profit so soon, you only just take advantage of the dip whenever you come across it because it is also a good opportunity for investors to but during the dip. DCA method of investment is all about buying bitcoin at the rate which you can afford and no need for fear of volatility because it is not an investment one is depending to make profit very quick .

Don't came on battle unprepared since if they just go by thinking getting quick profits for volatile asset they invest then provably that they are in verge of losing their money especially if they have lack of knowledge and experience to deal with other consequences happen. That's why invest only what they can afford to lose since this could make us away from bigger stress when deciding to stick around on what we believe more beneficial to us. For sure no question will be raised if people would suggest to used DCA for long term what matter now is how those people execute those strategy since their understanding is really important so that they can execute this strategy so well. For sure volatility will be their less concern if they do this one since they will be in focus on accumulate and now on the fuds,price,volatility and other nuisance things. They should know DCA well, so that there's no confusion will happen and they will be away on any trading thoughts that affect their decisions that can put them on risky situations.

[Barikui1]

Only those who invest what they can't afford  would be scared of volatility and the reason for DCA a method is for investors to just only buy the amount of Bitcoin that they afford, this helps in accumulating bitcoin without any stress and with this method of investing their is no need to be scared of the volatility of the market because you are not expecting profit in a short time. DCA method of investing is a longterm investment which you don't have any business of volatility for profit so soon, you only just take advantage of the dip whenever you come across it because it is also a good opportunity for investors to but during the dip. DCA method of investment is all about buying bitcoin at the rate which you can afford and no need for fear of volatility because it is not an investment one is depending to make profit very quick .

Investing in bitcoin the right way by buying it regularly with a DCA strategy. Adjusting cash flow properly, emergency funds, reserve funds and funds for execution. I think no one is afraid to invest in bitcoin but because they don't plan well they are not consistent in investing.

I also agree with you, we can set aside monthly income to invest in bitcoin, invest with money that we don't use for our daily needs. The important thing is that we must understand that investing in bitcoin is not for the short term but for the long term, so there are many periods that we will go through each year to buy Bitcoin.

Yea, you have actually spot on, and I also share the same sentiment as you bro, because most people don't actually know that when investing in Bitcoin through the DCA accumulating strategy, the most important thing is consistency, and it should be done with a money you aren't needing anytime soon, so that you don't have to fall back to your holdings.

Then another thing we shouldn't take lightly while investing in Bitcoin is our emergency fund, because it's the emergency funds that you have kept aside incase of any emergencies that is going to keep you afloat during the rainy days.

Buying Bitcoin can be done through a trusted Exchange and withdrawing it to a personal wallet to be held in the long term.

Then as for this, I think that this is the ideal senerio you have to orchestrate if you truly want to be successful in your Bitcoin holdings, because in as much as we are accumulating Bitcoin, we shouldn't forget about our security, which I think is the most important thing to consider before even thinking of investing in Bitcoin in the first place.

[Justbillywitt]

Considering my situation, your advice is quite reasonable and effective. Because I live with my family although I am not dependent, I have to be accountable to them for the family income, this is my hereditary principle. However due to my job, I can save even a small amount but the amount is very small and I can deposit it continuously. As a result I have invested some amount in Bitcoin earlier. I have some more savings which I am going to invest now. But I think that after one or two years from now if I can save more, can I invest in Bitcoin again with that?

Yes you can always top up your bitcoin stash when you have more cash flows or you have saved up more money. From your statement I understand that you have already made bitcoin purchase with the savings you have now. But you don't have to wait one or two years to add more stash to to the one you have accumulated. That money you intend saving for one or two years, before buying more stash to add up to your already accumulated bitcoin units, can be used to DCA bitcoin monthly, Instead of saving the money in the bank for two years before buying. You can be buying bitcoin with it gradually. Let's say each month you have save up whatever amount that you can gather, you can use it to buy add up to your bitcoin portfolio, that's what the DCA is about. If you continue to do that monthly DCA for two years it will be better than keeping the money in the bank for two years before using it to invest in bitcoin.

[Dump3er]

It's impossible to come up with a plausible idea as to what is going to happen and how it will play out in two decades from now. But this rough idea that all monetary value gravitates into bitcoin in 50 - 200 years does make some abstract sense as bitcoin meets a dozen criteria to be good money which gold (or any other asset) doesn't meet.

When I suggest 50 to 200 years for something to play out, I am providing a lot of latitude in my own thinking of gradually and then suddenly because sometimes changes happen slowly, and then all at once, and if we try to prepare for the direction that we think the puck is going rather than where the puck is, then we are likely going to be in a better position, even though we likely can mostly do ballpark type preparations for a variety of scenarios rather than getting too bogged down in specifics, so there is a bit of a BIG SO FUCKING WHAT? in regards to where bitcoin might be 50 to 200 years from now, since we have to be both enjoying our here and now and also preparing on shorter timelines, such as we do want to make sure that we are able to feed ourselves and any family (dependents) that we might have,  and many times we are going to have a lot of intermediate goals in regards to where we want to be at time 1 month from now, 6 months from now, 1 year from now , 4 years from now, 10 years from now, etc etc etc., and so the further we go out the less that we might get into details, including that I better have enough money to pay my rent, utilities, food, transportation for this month and those are pretty specific numbers, and they become a bit more general the further than we go out in time, even though surely if I have built either life skills (working skills) and social capital, and various back up systems, I might not have to worry as much about some of the shorter term matters working themselves out, yet if I go through some relationship problems, or employment problems or even if I get hit by a bus, then I might have to consider if my various backup plans are sufficient enough to help to protect me (or to keep me in the game). 

Personally, I don't see much if any role for gold in my own personal preparations, and sure there might be some people who are in places in which people are used to having gold and dealing with gold, so maybe they are going to be o..k to have some gold in their lives, but I personally consider gold to be completely unnecessary, absent maybe some Armageddon situation..and even then, in the place where I am at, I have difficulties understanding what good the gold might do me.  I could buy a few ounces or kilos to store some where, just in case, but I am just considering it to be something that might not be very helpful...maybe in considering a situation in which bitcoin is also no longer valuable... internet is down every where?  That would be a pretty bad situation, and I might not be young enough to last through something like that if it comes to fighting over resources, I don't have enough guns and bullets either, which might be helpful in terms of self protection during such times... I think I am getting too far astray with trying to consider some value in terms of having gold as you suggest might be of some value in some scenarios that you have not quite specified what they might be.

I think you got me wrong somewhere. For the time being gold has value because people believe gold has value, so one property might be that its historic record concerning value preservation seems to be holding true into the future.

Now when it comes to use cases, I have never been looking into it scientifically like how important is gold in electronics or medicine. I have only superficially scratched a few sources, but I couldn't verify myself whether gold is indispensable because of its conductivity or for other characteristics or not. I just don't know. As far as I know it is used in all kinds of devices, but does it have to be used?

If you google gold use cases, first thing that comes up is of course jewelry and since I don't give much about jewelry, I would never buy gold for that reason. In fact, I would never buy gold for any reason unless I think it would be a smart move because I anticipate the herd thinks for some reason it is a smart move. It would be more about playing the market than playing the asset.

Since I can't tell whether I am dependent on gold and whether my laptop or desktop would not be working without gold, I can't categorically say that gold sucks. But if someone now convinces me that gold is NOT an indispensable ingredient for electronics or other essential areas of life, then I would indeed say I couldn't care less about gold.

And as you said, if we get to a point where the Internet would be down globally, I think gold wouldn't get you very far either! Because that probably means nuclear doomsday or something.

There is one uncertainty in my mind though, which I am simply technically not literate enough (and maybe nobody is) to assess, and that is whether bitcoin could one day undergo a hidden quantum-computing-like attack that brings it down. But from what I learned, if bitcoin can get attacked one day, the most pervasive encryption technologies used in critical infrastructure (airports, stations, banking, medical records...) could get attacked, which in turn again implies doomsday. So if technical developments are inbound that could threaten bitcoin's encryption technology, it could migrate to more sophisticated, adapted algorithms. That is what I work with and as mentioned before, bitcoin is not at risk in isolation because too many things run on encryption and then the whole world's infrastructure would have a problem, including bitcoin. Would I like to have a gold bar in my basement if that happens? Well, let me say, perhaps yes. I wouldn't complain if one is lying around then, but I would probably not actively hoard gold to prepare for these weird scenarios.

[Tamaperdana]

After reading a few pages in this thread, I learned something quite interesting about the behavior of a beginner who wants to invest in bitcoin. On the one hand, there are beginner bitcoin investors who are very reckless and only think about making a profit without learning more about what bitcoin is. Then on the one hand there are also those who are interested in investing in Bitcoin, but the problem is that these people are too afraid to start, even though basically these investors have learned a little about Bitcoin investment. So in my personal opinion, these two types of investors have advantages and disadvantages. Because people who invest in bitcoin only think about getting quick profits, the advantage is that they already 100% believe that bitcoin is a very promising investment asset. However, the weakness of people with this type is that they will most likely not think too much about the risks or capital used.

Because perhaps in order to make a quick profit, such people dare to take out a loan from the bank and immediately invest the money in the form of bitcoin. Even though bitcoin has very minimal risk compared to other assets. But even so, investing in Bitcoin using borrowed capital is still not appropriate. Because of course when you borrow money from the bank, you have to pay the debt in installments every month. And what if, for example, the economic situation is not going well, in my opinion this will really disrupt investment in Bitcoin and also other economic conditions.

Then regarding the advantages of bitcoin investors who are too afraid to start investing, people like this are usually better at finding information. Because people like this have a very strong wariness of bitcoin. So to convince themselves about Bitcoin, looking for information first is what they do. But the problem is, even though they have learned about Bitcoin, they still feel doubtful. Which ultimately still brings a dilemma when starting to invest.

So in your opinion, which is better between these two types of people?
In my personal opinion, the type of person who has high caution is better. Because even though the process is a little longer (to start investing in Bitcoin), it will definitely provide better and more mature results.

[xbartoni]

[edited out]

Considering my situation, your advice is quite reasonable and effective. Because I live with my family although I am not dependent, I have to be accountable to them for the family income, this is my hereditary principle. However due to my job, I can save even a small amount but the amount is very small and I can deposit it continuously. As a result I have invested some amount in Bitcoin earlier. I have some more savings which I am going to invest now. But I think that after one or two years from now if I can save more, can I invest in Bitcoin again with that? This Bitcoin has already motivated me. So I regret a lot for not being able to invest now or a little earlier, although I had nothing to do. And maybe I will regret it again two years from now. But I am constrained by the current situation. Anyway, I am very satisfied with your statement.

I don't know why you are asking whether to invest or not.  That is your choice, and there are consequences whether you choose to invest or not to invest, so if you are going to invest, you have to figure out your position size. .and yeah, 2 years sounds like you are planning to trade rather than to invest.

In bitcoin, you probably should be considering putting money in for 4-10 years or longer if you are wanting to consider what you are doing to be an investment rather than a trade.

Do you have money that you can spare for 4-10 years or longer or not.  If you don't then maybe you should not be putting your money into bitcoin until you are able to figure out your discretionary money to such an extent that you know that you have extra money that you can put in.

I doubt anyone convince you what to do but yourself.

There are sure a lot of low coiners and no coiners in the world who are choosing not to invest into bitcoin, and do you want to be one of those?  Maybe you don't know and you have to figure that part out?  The longer you wait to get into bitcoin has its own issues too, so many guys can learn as they go, so you just pick your investment size and you continue to study bitcoin, whether you are able to begin with $100 per week or $10 per week or some other amount that you consider to be in your budget and you are not going to need that money for 4-10 years or longer.

By the way, some folks have considered bitcoin to be the best place to put your extra money, yet if you have not figured that out or you don't believe it, then you have to figure out your position size in accordance with your beliefs, including figuring out whether you are going to wait (and if you believe waiting is a good investment strategy) or get started and start buying regularly, consistently, persistently and ongoingly while you are also figuring out your own financial and/or psychological situation.

You are absolutely right that my investment will depend on me whether I invest or not or where I invest. But since I have little investment experience or knowledge of Bitcoin and digital currencies, that is why I am asking so much about investment. I really believe that I can explore the right knowledge and principles on this board and there are many wise people on this board including you from whom I can find the right advice because as I have already said that my experience or knowledge is very little.
And I believe in your words with all my heart that my own enthusiasm will be more effective and reliable than the enthusiasm of others to do anything in this world. But for that I have to gain knowledge myself first, and only then can I make the right decision myself. That is why I have approached you so that I can follow your experience and move forward.
I thought that I would get a good profit from Bitcoin investment after one or two years. But in the light of your kind opinions and experience, I now see that I was completely wrong. I have to plan my investment for a longer period.
Now I can reorganize my plan and get out of a serious situation. This is my biggest achievement.

You need prepare well financially before you can think of buying Bitcoin because what are you doing is investment and it is for a very long time your Bitcoin investment shouldn't be a borrow money because you are investing for long term you need to have a good cash flow as you will make plans for your emergency fund reserve, and your discretionary income so that won't sell out your Bitcoin hodling when you encounter some challenges of life or things that you don't expect to happen, and also with the DCA strategy of accumulating Bitcoin you can accumulate Bitcoin gradually either weekly or monthly regardless of the price of Bitcoin and continue hodling.

Good advice I have adopted the DCA method of buying Bitcoin because following this method keeps yourself safe from short-term market volatility and it is a good step for long-term investment. We should definitely prepare ourselves financially and take a psychological plan to hold on to our Bitcoin fund in case of any financial shortfall, and it is advisable to have a good out-of-pocket income to deal with that situation. I think if I invest in Bitcoin using the DCA strategy, then there are many advantages to holding our Bitcoin, such as: holding or receiving a portion of the income every day, and investing Bitcoin weekly or monthly You can prepare independently.

[Proty]

After reading a few pages in this thread, I learned something quite interesting about the behavior of a beginner who wants to invest in bitcoin. On the one hand, there are beginner bitcoin investors who are very reckless and only think about making a profit without learning more about what bitcoin is. Then on the one hand there are also those who are interested in investing in Bitcoin, but the problem is that these people are too afraid to start, even though basically these investors have learned a little about Bitcoin investment. So in my personal opinion, these two types of investors have advantages and disadvantages. Because people who invest in bitcoin only think about getting quick profits, the advantage is that they already 100% believe that bitcoin is a very promising investment asset. However, the weakness of people with this type is that they will most likely not think too much about the risks or capital used.

Because perhaps in order to make a quick profit, such people dare to take out a loan from the bank and immediately invest the money in the form of bitcoin. Even though bitcoin has very minimal risk compared to other assets. But even so, investing in Bitcoin using borrowed capital is still not appropriate. Because of course when you borrow money from the bank, you have to pay the debt in installments every month. And what if, for example, the economic situation is not going well, in my opinion this will really disrupt investment in Bitcoin and also other economic conditions.

Then regarding the advantages of bitcoin investors who are too afraid to start investing, people like this are usually better at finding information. Because people like this have a very strong wariness of bitcoin. So to convince themselves about Bitcoin, looking for information first is what they do. But the problem is, even though they have learned about Bitcoin, they still feel doubtful. Which ultimately still brings a dilemma when starting to invest.

So in your opinion, which is better between these two types of people?
In my personal opinion, the type of person who has high caution is better. Because even though the process is a little longer (to start investing in Bitcoin), it will definitely provide better and more mature results.

Well for me I would greatly consider the first person as an investor because the person has already started his bitcoin investment although with a wrong mindset which I believe can be corrected or change with time, there are so investors that fails to appreciate the importance of long-term investment in bitcoin but as times goes by they come to realize the benefit so to me the first thing in every investment is the courage to start so without taking any action and always procrastinating and being a no coiner is not a good idea at all.

[MissNonFall9]

[edited out]

You are absolutely right that my investment will depend on me whether I invest or not or where I invest. But since I have little investment experience or knowledge of Bitcoin and digital currencies, that is why I am asking so much about investment. I really believe that I can explore the right knowledge and principles on this board and there are many wise people on this board including you from whom I can find the right advice because as I have already said that my experience or knowledge is very little.
And I believe in your words with all my heart that my own enthusiasm will be more effective and reliable than the enthusiasm of others to do anything in this world. But for that I have to gain knowledge myself first, and only then can I make the right decision myself. That is why I have approached you so that I can follow your experience and move forward.
I thought that I would get a good profit from Bitcoin investment after one or two years. But in the light of your kind opinions and experience, I now see that I was completely wrong. I have to plan my investment for a longer period.
Now I can reorganize my plan and get out of a serious situation. This is my biggest achievement.

In your earlier post, you had stated that you had already started buying bitcoin, so just continue to buy bitcoin and to learn about it as you go, yet the main thing to learn is your own cashflow management, and to make sure that you are investing from your discretionary income, which is the money that you have available that you can spend that you do not need for your expenses or even that you are going to want for other later reasons.. so it would be money that you are just continuing to put on the side for 4-10 years or longer, and if you are young, then the investment timeline would likely be 15-20 years or more. 

Of course, you are free to do whatever you like and you can choose to trade bitcoin rather than invest it, so if the BTC price goes up by 50% or to double or triple, then you cash out some of your investment into bitcoin, yet that would not really be investing, and you would likely be selling one of the best, if not the best of assets, so it would be a problem that you had spent time accumulating so much of such a good asset like bitcoin and end up spending all of it or trying to sell it higher and to buy back cheaper, which may or may not work out for you as compared to a practice of just keeping on buying bitcoin until you are later able to start to draw upon it, which again seems something that you may well want to let your bitcoin investment ride for quite a few years rather than withdrawing it before the bitcoin had chances to compound its value upon itself several times.

There are no guarantees with any investment, so there is a need to figure out how much you are going to invest, yet since bitcoin is an asymmetrical bet to the upside it is also quite possible that you are able to invest over the years and to end up compounding your value since the most you can lose is 100% of your investment, but there are also quite a few decently upside potentials in bitcoin to continue to grow as it has in the past, even if the slope of the upside curve might not be as steep as it had been historically.

So whether you keep adding to your bitcoin stash is your choice ($100 per week, $10 per week or some other amount that you consider reasonable/feasible/prudent), and your figuring out your personal factors is probably a good idea, but it is also your choice regarding how much you attempt to plan ahead in regards to your cashflow including your income versus your expenses versus how much you are putting into bitcoin.  It can take a while to figure out your personal factors and then to balance them out and they are a moving target too, since it is quite likely that your income and expenses are changing with the passage of time, and maybe you also have expenses of working on building skills and increasing your employment and income opportunities (such as going to school/university), and so anyone thinking that they are going to substitute their short-to-medium term income with bitcoin appreciation income is likely thinking wrongly about bitcoin since in many cases it takes years and years and years before you are likely to get your BTC stash to a high enough level where you can start to live off of it or to supplement your other income with it. 

Historically, aggressive bitcoin investors might have had been able to build their BTC stack within a cycle or two, yet these days it may well take longer than a cycle or two to get your BTC stack to a high enough level that it could sustainably support your expenses or to sufficiently supplement your expenses where it would start to make sense to transition from your BTC accumulation stages and into your BTC withdrawal stages.  It makes no sense to sell any BTC until you have reached your BTC withdrawal stages, and only you can figure out those stages, and if you fuck it up no one is going to bail you out.  You are responsible for your own fuck ups, including if you treat bitcoin as a trade rather than an investment.  Those are your choices, completely.

In traditional financial planning, you would usually need to get to about 25 years of your income/expenses to be able to sustain yourself from your investment at a 4% withdrawal rate.  I personally believe that bitcoin allows you to sustainably withdraw at a 10% withdrawal rate which would mean that you ONLY need 10 years of your income/expenses, yet I am also using the 200-weekly moving average as the way to measure the value of your BTC stash and various other withdrawal constraints, especially if you might be in your earlier years of just meeting the minimum thresholds in which your valuation of your BTC holdings appears to be enough...since there can always be dangers in attempting to withdraw too much too quickly and there after depleting your BTC stash at a rate faster than it is growing, which would no longer be sustainable and would defeat the purposes of anyone who prematurely thought that he reached fuck you status but he either misvaluated his BTC stash or he was too aggressive in his attempted employment of what he thought would be sustainable withdrawal practices. I discuss price based and time based sustainable withdrawal strategies in one of my threads, yet my presumption for anyone attempting to employ those strategies is to reach a status of over accumulation of BTC prior to employment of either of the strategies.  I consider them as not being trading strategies, even though so many folks love to trade/gamble, and so sometimes it is difficult to save folks from themselves, since in the end people can do what they like and they are responsible for the consequences of their own actions, good and bad.

Yes, I have already invested some amount, and your advice is very important to me when I change my investment plan in Bitcoin based on your opinion. And I never thought that you would give me so many words of advice. Anyway, I feel like I am one of the lucky ones (I am not exaggerating). I believe that one day I will be able to do something good and seek the right knowledge. And trading is not my favorite subject. So I have no desire or aspiration to move towards trading because it seems more dangerous to me.

[SuperBitMan]

This thread is now on its 600 page

It has been nice gathering some good knowledge from this thread.

Bought the Dips and Hodl, and still hodling and will celebrate at 100kish price.

Y'all don't forget the concept of the thread be a hodler

Even though this thread title is about buying the dip and hold, that doesn't mean you should be focused on accumulating bitcoin in a dip, which will delay your bitcoin accumulation journey because you are not certain when a dip will happen. Since you are just starting to accumulate bitcoin newly, it will be better if you are more concerned with accumulating bitcoin with the DCA strategy, which will allow you to consistently accumulate bitcoin right away whenever your discretionary income is readily available. The DCA strategy will allow you not to time the market to accumulate bitcoin when the price drops, which will be an advantage to you because you will be accumulating bitcoin even if the price is increasing or decreasing.

Waiting for the dip to buy bitcoin means one is not yet ready to invest bitcoin because you might keep waiting not knowing you are just wasting opportunity. In bitcoin invest just try to grab the opportunity you meet everyday if you can, you don't need to wait to invest. Waiting  for the dip to buy bitcoin is a big lose but people don't know this. Invest in DCA method now and earn a better profit in the future that is what matters. The market does not wait for anyone or give assurance to anybody to anyone to wait for a dip that will be favourable to buy in the future. Waiting for dip is a mistake that people are not even aware of but thinking they are taking good investment decisions on when to start.

Purchasing or accumulating Bitcoin when there's a dip is not wrong but the idea of waiting for the dip only before accumulating is the wrong thing here.
We all know predicting what will happen in Bitcoin in the future is very difficult so we can't predict when the dip is going to happen in the future, so to avoid waiting in vain for dip is better you accumulate little by little using the DCA strategy when when there's a dip you can switch up and start accumulating aggressively.
While accumulating using the DCA strategy you can also have a reserve fund which you can use to accumulate more Bitcoin when ever there's a dip.
Don't wait for a dip to happen before you start accumulating because you may wait and it won't happen and that will be a waste of time and opportunity for you.

[JayJuanGee]

After reading a few pages in this thread, I learned something quite interesting about the behavior of a beginner who wants to invest in bitcoin. On the one hand, there are beginner bitcoin investors who are very reckless and only think about making a profit without learning more about what bitcoin is. Then on the one hand there are also those who are interested in investing in Bitcoin, but the problem is that these people are too afraid to start, even though basically these investors have learned a little about Bitcoin investment. So in my personal opinion, these two types of investors have advantages and disadvantages. Because people who invest in bitcoin only think about getting quick profits, the advantage is that they already 100% believe that bitcoin is a very promising investment asset. However, the weakness of people with this type is that they will most likely not think too much about the risks or capital used.

Because perhaps in order to make a quick profit, such people dare to take out a loan from the bank and immediately invest the money in the form of bitcoin. Even though bitcoin has very minimal risk compared to other assets. But even so, investing in Bitcoin using borrowed capital is still not appropriate. Because of course when you borrow money from the bank, you have to pay the debt in installments every month. And what if, for example, the economic situation is not going well, in my opinion this will really disrupt investment in Bitcoin and also other economic conditions.

Then regarding the advantages of bitcoin investors who are too afraid to start investing, people like this are usually better at finding information. Because people like this have a very strong wariness of bitcoin. So to convince themselves about Bitcoin, looking for information first is what they do. But the problem is, even though they have learned about Bitcoin, they still feel doubtful. Which ultimately still brings a dilemma when starting to invest.

So in your opinion, which is better between these two types of people?
In my personal opinion, the type of person who has high caution is better. Because even though the process is a little longer (to start investing in Bitcoin), it will definitely provide better and more mature results.

You might be pigeonholing your categories a bit too much, and yeah we might proclaim that there are guys who are overly hesitant in their bitcoin investment and then we might identify guys who are too gungho about their bitcoin investment, yet we can choose our own destination by identifying bitcoin as a good investment and then figuring out how much to invest into bitcoin from our discretionary income, whether that is $100 per week, $10 per week or some other amount.  Of course, if we have a lump sum amount that we could invest, then we can decide whether to invest all of it, or to invest parts into DCAing and/or buying on dips.

Each of us needs to figure out our own strategy rather than trying to figure out what others are doing wrong - although sure it is possible to learn from others too, yet it can take each of us several years to figure out our own strategy, and figure out a way to invest in bitcoin as aggressively as we are able to without over doing it, so in that regard we should have back up cash funds and also consider that we are likely going to be investing into bitcoin for 4-10 years or longer, and perhaps tweaking our strategies along the way as we go and as we build our bitcoin stack size.

Now if you (Tamaperdana) think you got it all figured out regarding guys either being too whimpy or too aggressive and you cannot figure out some kind of an appropriate in-between approach to BTC, what have you done in your 2.5 years while registered on the forum?  You entered right during a dipping period, and if you had been investment $250 per week in the past 2.5 years, you would have invested right around $33.5k and you would have had accumulated 1.0645 BTC.. which surely would have had been a good place to be right now rather than pondering whether or not to get started or wondering how to get started.

It seems that the best thing is to get started as soon as possible and then to figure out a BTC accumulation strategy that works within your discretionary income if you have a discretionary income.  If you don't have any discretionary income, then you should not be investing into bitcoin, so then you have to figure out how to either increase your income or decrease your expenses in order to have a discretionary income so that you are able to invest into bitcoin for 4-10 years or longer.

[ginsan]

You might be pigeonholing your categories a bit too much, and yeah we might proclaim that there are guys who are overly hesitant in their bitcoin investment and then we might identify guys who are too gungho about their bitcoin investment, yet we can choose our own destination by identifying bitcoin as a good investment and then figuring out how much to invest into bitcoin from our discretionary income, whether that is $100 per week, $10 per week or some other amount.  Of course, if we have a lump sum amount that we could invest, then we can decide whether to invest all of it, or to invest parts into DCAing and/or buying on dips.

Each of us needs to figure out our own strategy rather than trying to figure out what others are doing wrong - although sure it is possible to learn from others too, yet it can take each of us several years to figure out our own strategy, and figure out a way to invest in bitcoin as aggressively as we are able to without over doing it, so in that regard we should have back up cash funds and also consider that we are likely going to be investing into bitcoin for 4-10 years or longer, and perhaps tweaking our strategies along the way as we go and as we build our bitcoin stack size.

Before I visited this thread, of course, the direction of my investment was not directed, aka there was no strategy that was really integrated with my investment pattern. But slowly I began to realize that long-term investment is certainly quite good to apply with regular purchases every week. I didn't really know the term DCA before because it was still foreign to my ears and after a long time I finally found my goal, which was to invest in bitcoin in the right way without any pressure at all.

I believe everything takes a process and sometimes mistakes come early so that we can learn or learn not to repeat them. As you said quite right, it takes 1 year or more to adjust a strategy that can blend with our minds in investing in bitcoin.

Currently trending, I see many investors who invest at once and they forget about it, or the important term is the large allocation they invest in bitcoin is for their old age by implementing a lump sum and forgetting about it.

[I_Anime]

Yes, I have already invested some amount, and your advice is very important to me when I change my investment plan in Bitcoin based on your opinion. And I never thought that you would give me so many words of advice. Anyway, I feel like I am one of the lucky ones (I am not exaggerating). I believe that one day I will be able to do something good and seek the right knowledge. And trading is not my favorite subject. So I have no desire or aspiration to move towards trading because it seems more dangerous to me.

Trading not bad though but I will say you're making the right choice avoiding it ( trading) , because trading not something one can start without having good knowledge on how it works and stuff because to understand trading takes time and energy, and also determination, without any knowledge you will only get yourself rekt (losing everything).

But for Bitcoin investment all you need just some basic knowledge and you good to start , and you can continue to expand your knowledge to make your holding or investment better each day , and this thread can help with that , due to the knowledgeable users here just stick around and Secure a smooth investment tho they would be done up and down in market but still stay strong 💪

[Ambatman]

Trading not bad though but I will say you're making the right choice avoiding it ( trading) , because trading not something one can start without having good knowledge on how it works and stuff because to understand trading takes time and energy, and also determination, without any knowledge you will only get yourself rekt (losing everything).

you right though,  if you looking for relative peace of mind and a sustainable Growth
Then investment is the goal not trading.
Yeah, there are People that makes it big from trading but who trades with something as Valuable as Bitcoin?
Even with a perfect technical analysis
Failure would still exist in trading.

Investment just require consistency, a dedicated mind and Risk management.
If trading was so successful, wouldn't be the face of Bitcoin.

[Tamaperdana]

After reading a few pages in this thread, I learned something quite interesting about the behavior of a beginner who wants to invest in bitcoin. On the one hand, there are beginner bitcoin investors who are very reckless and only think about making a profit without learning more about what bitcoin is. Then on the one hand there are also those who are interested in investing in Bitcoin, but the problem is that these people are too afraid to start, even though basically these investors have learned a little about Bitcoin investment. So in my personal opinion, these two types of investors have advantages and disadvantages. Because people who invest in bitcoin only think about getting quick profits, the advantage is that they already 100% believe that bitcoin is a very promising investment asset. However, the weakness of people with this type is that they will most likely not think too much about the risks or capital used.

Because perhaps in order to make a quick profit, such people dare to take out a loan from the bank and immediately invest the money in the form of bitcoin. Even though bitcoin has very minimal risk compared to other assets. But even so, investing in Bitcoin using borrowed capital is still not appropriate. Because of course when you borrow money from the bank, you have to pay the debt in installments every month. And what if, for example, the economic situation is not going well, in my opinion this will really disrupt investment in Bitcoin and also other economic conditions.

Then regarding the advantages of bitcoin investors who are too afraid to start investing, people like this are usually better at finding information. Because people like this have a very strong wariness of bitcoin. So to convince themselves about Bitcoin, looking for information first is what they do. But the problem is, even though they have learned about Bitcoin, they still feel doubtful. Which ultimately still brings a dilemma when starting to invest.

So in your opinion, which is better between these two types of people?
In my personal opinion, the type of person who has high caution is better. Because even though the process is a little longer (to start investing in Bitcoin), it will definitely provide better and more mature results.

You might be pigeonholing your categories a bit too much, and yeah we might proclaim that there are guys who are overly hesitant in their bitcoin investment and then we might identify guys who are too gungho about their bitcoin investment, yet we can choose our own destination by identifying bitcoin as a good investment and then figuring out how much to invest into bitcoin from our discretionary income, whether that is $100 per week, $10 per week or some other amount.  Of course, if we have a lump sum amount that we could invest, then we can decide whether to invest all of it, or to invest parts into DCAing and/or buying on dips.

Each of us needs to figure out our own strategy rather than trying to figure out what others are doing wrong - although sure it is possible to learn from others too, yet it can take each of us several years to figure out our own strategy, and figure out a way to invest in bitcoin as aggressively as we are able to without over doing it, so in that regard we should have back up cash funds and also consider that we are likely going to be investing into bitcoin for 4-10 years or longer, and perhaps tweaking our strategies along the way as we go and as we build our bitcoin stack size.

Now if you (Tamaperdana) think you got it all figured out regarding guys either being too whimpy or too aggressive and you cannot figure out some kind of an appropriate in-between approach to BTC, what have you done in your 2.5 years while registered on the forum?  You entered right during a dipping period, and if you had been investment $250 per week in the past 2.5 years, you would have invested right around $33.5k and you would have had accumulated 1.0645 BTC.. which surely would have had been a good place to be right now rather than pondering whether or not to get started or wondering how to get started.

It seems that the best thing is to get started as soon as possible and then to figure out a BTC accumulation strategy that works within your discretionary income if you have a discretionary income.  If you don't have any discretionary income, then you should not be investing into bitcoin, so then you have to figure out how to either increase your income or decrease your expenses in order to have a discretionary income so that you are able to invest into bitcoin for 4-10 years or longer.

Yes, that's right, instead of looking for other people's mistakes, it's better for us to correct the mistakes we have. Here I am actually just comparing the two categories of people I mentioned above. Because I hope that from the post I made above there is meaning that can be learned by people who are starting to invest in Bitcoin. The reason is that not a few people who invest in Bitcoin force themselves to borrow money from the bank. And I think that's very wrong.

Apart from that, I also agree that an investment strategy in Bitcoin is very necessary and a DCA strategy is a good thing to do in Bitcoin. Because currently I continue to do DCA on bitcoin. I am indeed registered on this forum starting in 2022 or to be precise in May. At that time I was very curious about bitcoin so I entered this forum. At that time I didn't immediately invest in bitcoin, but a month later after I registered on this forum I decided to invest in bitcoin. At that time I also collected the money I had in the form of bitcoin every 2 weeks. But to be honest, at that time I didn't know that the strategy I was using was a DCA strategy. But after I found out, the strategy I used turned out to be DCA. So until now I continue to do DCA on bitcoin, even though the bitcoin I have is not as big as you mentioned, but in essence I continue to be consistent with my investment.

And yes, I agree with you, that if we have income, then have reserve funds, and cold, unused cash. So immediately investing this cold money in Bitcoin is the right thing. But if you don't have cold money, it's better not to invest in bitcoin yet. Because if you are forced to invest in Bitcoin by borrowing money, of course this is not the right solution.