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Author Topic: Trust explanation in trust settings for improved forum peace  (Read 359 times)
SebastianJu
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April 18, 2019, 11:34:13 AM
Last edit: April 18, 2019, 08:07:14 PM by SebastianJu
Merited by dbshck (4), The Pharmacist (2), TMAN (2), OgNasty (1), LoyceV (1), Lafu (1), AdolfinWolf (1), DireWolfM14 (1), morvillz7z (1), 1miau (1)
 #1

Hello,

It looks like a lot of people do not know how the trust system works, ratings as well as the trust list. Which leads to many confrontations on here. Explaining everyone the implications of the forum trust will make it possible to wipe out a good bunch of strife on the forum. Please correct possible wrong statements I made, also the text needs to be finetuned and improved. It's just a base for discussion.

The solution might be a simple explanation above the trust forms that shows the current trust level and it's implications. Maybe in red or with a checkbox "I confirm". For example, everyone on default trust 1 would see something like this above the trust rating form:

Code:
You are on Default Trust 1.
Please note that you have a responsibility regarding who you give trust. Your given trust ratings are shown in bold red or green for everyone by default. So please check your ratings and make sure you can say that the rating you gave to a user should be visible to everyone by default.

Code:
You are on Default Trust 2.
Please note that you have a responsibility regarding who you give trust. Your given trust ratings are shown in bold red or green for everyone by default. So please check your ratings and make sure you can say that the rating you gave to a user should be visible to everyone by default.

Code:
You are on Default Trust X.
Please note that your rating will not be seen in bold red or green for everyone by default. It will be seen in bold by everyone who put you on their trust list. (The trust list is not the list of ratings.)

And above the trust list additionally something like:

Code:
You are on Default Trust 1.
Please note that you have a responsibility regarding who you have in your trust list. If you have >10 merit, every entry for a user you put in your trust list is a vote for this user to push him into DT1. Everyone with >10 merit takes part in this voting system.
In any case, you will push everyone you add to your trust list into DT2, which would somewhat mean you agree to the ratings that person gave and that these ratings should be visible to every member by default.
In case you added a user that reached DT1 you would also be responsible for everyone this user rated and trusted as well. Please check if you can agree to what he did.

Code:
You are on Default Trust X.
The trust ratings given by everyone you put on your trust list is visible to you in bold red or green, which is independent of their default trust level.
If you have >10 merit, every entry for a user you put in your trust list is a vote for this user to push him into DT1. Everyone with >10 merit takes part in this voting system.
In case you added a user that reached DT1 you would also be responsible for everyone this user rated and trusted as well. Please check if you can agree to what he did.


Might as well include a popup before saving though the forum practically has no popups so it's something unpopular, it seems.

Also, in case someone jumps the first time to DT1 or DT2 it might make  sense to send out an automatic email to this member and explain him the implications. There is no info otherwise without checking. It would give the user time to check the trust before a fight occurs about settings or ratings other members don't like.

Greetings!
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April 18, 2019, 12:38:03 PM
Merited by Foxpup (2), SebastianJu (2), LoyceV (2)
 #2

Also, everyone you give a green rating here will automatically become DT2 and his ratings will show in bold red or green as well.
This is incorrect. Leaving positive trust for another user if you are DT1 does not make them DT2. This is achieved by adding their name to your own individual trust list.

Please note that you have a responsibility regarding who you have in your trust list. You might give someone the power to rise to DT1 as well
This is true for every user with >10 earned merit, not just users who are currently DT1. Any user with >10 earned merit is voting for DT1 members via their own personal trust list.

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April 18, 2019, 02:32:20 PM
 #3

This is incorrect. Leaving positive trust for another user if you are DT1 does not make them DT2. This is achieved by adding their name to your own individual trust list.
Yep, that's the first thing I noticed, and I misunderstood that for quite a while before being corrected by Lutpin a while back.  OP is certainly correct that there are a lot of misconceptions about the trust system, even among older members--and that's not surprising, since it is a bit complicated.

Explaining everyone the implications of the forum trust will make it possible to wipe out a good bunch of strife on the forum.
I applaud your effort here, SebastianJu, but I disagree with the above statement.  Though a lot of members really don't understand the mechanics of how the trust system works, I seriously doubt educating people is going to reduce strife.  Why?  Because most of that strife stems from jealousy, resentment of authority, and hard feelings because of negative trust received by DT members.  No amount of education is going to eliminate that.  I'm confident members like cryptohunter, Thule, and that bunch of trolls know how everything works, and they're going to keep riling everybody up no matter how many tutorials are posted.

But again, this is a good effort on your part and should help people understand how the system works.  That in itself is a good thing.

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April 18, 2019, 02:57:21 PM
Merited by dbshck (4)
 #4

I like the suggestion, and o_e_l_e_o already wrote down all the corrections I had in mind. Some bigger warnings about the implications might help avoid red trusted users ending up on DT2.

I want to add this, as it often confuses people:
I encourage anyone to create their own Trust list. Don't confuse your Trust list with Feedback though:
  • Feedback: people you trust (or don't trust: red)
  • Trust list: people who's judgement on others you trust (or don't trust: ~)

I would also like to see a notification to all users (just like the April Fool's day joke) to remind them to create a custom trust list. If this is too much for Newbies, it could be shown only to Member+ Ranks.

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April 18, 2019, 03:10:00 PM
 #5

I would also like to see a notification to all users (just like the April Fool's day joke) to remind them to create a custom trust list. If this is too much for Newbies, it could be shown only to Member+ Ranks.

Thats actually a good idea.. when people rank up to Member they get a notification that "now its time for you to set your own custom trust list" ??

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April 18, 2019, 04:28:38 PM
 #6

I wish somebody could compile all the trust system information into one mega thread, from custom lists to supervotes and from things you can get red trust for to difference between trust and feedback. I've bookmarked most of the threads but it would be nice to see everything in one place as guidelines. I wouldn't mind it being pinned at the top too since ranks/activity and merit have their own and trust system is too important part of the forum to be scattered and buried in various other threads.

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April 18, 2019, 04:38:50 PM
 #7

Seems like a very good idea. I didn't really notice being added to DT2 for several weeks, until i used an external tool to see/watch trust lists.

The trust system as a whole is pretty esoteric, if you really want to understand it as a complete newbie, well, good luck, cause there really isn't a single "complete" guide which explains it from A - Z
(atleast not that i've found.)

Until that happens I suspect trust abusers will be called to answer for their observably untrustworthy actions on a regular basis, by those that wish to see the standards of free speech we have seen here over the years, continue.
For someone who calls others out for posting "low value noise", you're definitely not shy from doing it yourself...
Care to give any concrete examples of free speech being deteriorated for example?

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April 18, 2019, 04:45:38 PM
 #8

I wish somebody could compile all the trust system information into one mega thread, from custom lists to supervotes and from things you can get red trust for to difference between trust and feedback. I've bookmarked most of the threads but it would be nice to see everything in one place as guidelines. I wouldn't mind it being pinned at the top too since ranks/activity and merit have their own and trust system is too important part of the forum to be scattered and buried in various other threads.

Do it. You already got the bookmarks so you're halfway there...

Care to give any concrete examples of free speech being deteriorated for example?

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April 18, 2019, 05:12:01 PM
 #9

Seems like a very good idea. I didn't really notice being added to DT2 for several weeks, until i used an external tool to see/watch trust lists.

The trust system as a whole is pretty esoteric, if you really want to understand it as a complete newbie, well, good luck, cause there really isn't a single "complete" guide which explains it from A - Z
(atleast not that i've found.)

Until that happens I suspect trust abusers will be called to answer for their observably untrustworthy actions on a regular basis, by those that wish to see the standards of free speech we have seen here over the years, continue.
For someone who calls others out for posting "low value noise", you're definitely not shy from doing it yourself...
Care to give any concrete examples of free speech being deteriorated for example?

Have a read and try and understand it is an undeniable result of the set up we now have. Read the entire thread. Make a refutation or just accept what he is telling you there.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5088852.0

Perhaps you consider it an incentive to get red trust for simply bring attention to observable untrustworthy events from a DT's past?

Don't play dumb. I hope you're playing.

Precisely why the board can not continue allowing DT members, with observably untrustworthy behaviors in their past, to use red trust to prevent other members mentioning those behaviors. This the inverse to the purpose of red trust.

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April 18, 2019, 06:49:16 PM
Merited by LoyceV (1)
 #10

I would also like to see a notification to all users (just like the April Fool's day joke) to remind them to create a custom trust list. If this is too much for Newbies, it could be shown only to Member+ Ranks.

Yeb was thinking something this way too !

Maybe when theymos posting the next new changed List for DT in his trustlog thread !

So for 24 Hours od 2 days there will be a Notification like :


or something like this Message maybe !

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April 18, 2019, 07:27:47 PM
Last edit: April 18, 2019, 07:53:24 PM by SebastianJu
 #11

See, even I, as a long time member, didn't realize the full ruleset. Cheesy Thanks for correcting, I will fix the OP now.

Edit: Fixed. I hope it's correct now.

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April 18, 2019, 07:56:11 PM
Merited by SebastianJu (1)
 #12

I hope it's correct now.
The first code-tag includes your topic start now.

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April 19, 2019, 07:04:17 PM
 #13

Also, in case someone jumps the first time to DT1 or DT2 it might make  sense to send out an automatic email to this member and explain him the implications. There is no info otherwise without checking. It would give the user time to check the trust before a fight occurs about settings or ratings other members don't like.
I would also like to support this feature. Most users are not intentionally doing "trust abuse" when they've set an uncommon trust list or left lots of feedbacks without reference, in most cases the users on their trust list are their trading partners and that's why they've left each other also a positive feedback. That's totally fine but might change if the are DT.
And only a few users are checking the new DT list every month so most of the new members don't know that they are new on DT without notification.

The problem won't get less important in the future when DT expands every month...

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April 19, 2019, 07:29:51 PM
 #14

I was shocked to learn that members like Hhampuz and Vod had no idea how the system worked and thought that I was adding people to DT2 by leaving them feedback for successful business deals.  Many people need to be educated how the system works.  I'm tired of being retaliated against by ignorant people for things I haven't done because they lack understanding of the system.  The last year or two would have been much less dramatic for me on this forum if users had a complete grasp of the system and what it's trying to achieve.  They might also then see how users like Lauda use their fake scam busting as a method to increase the damage they can inflict on honest members.

Also, in case someone jumps the first time to DT1 or DT2 it might make  sense to send out an automatic email to this member and explain him the implications. There is no info otherwise without checking. It would give the user time to check the trust before a fight occurs about settings or ratings other members don't like.

This would probably be helpful.  I know I was never even told I was placed on DT1 or what it was.  I didn't learn about the system until people started making crazy accusations about my use of it.

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April 19, 2019, 07:44:46 PM
 #15

This would probably be helpful.  I know I was never even told I was placed on DT1 or what it was.  I didn't learn about the system until people started making crazy accusations about my use of it.

So... it's OK for you to be ignorant, but not other people?   Embarrassed

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April 19, 2019, 08:13:55 PM
 #16

I was shocked to learn that members like Hhampuz and Vod had no idea how the system worked and thought that I was adding people to DT2 by leaving them feedback for successful business deals.  Many people need to be educated how the system works.  I'm tired of being retaliated against by ignorant people for things I haven't done because they lack understanding of the system.  The last year or two would have been much less dramatic for me on this forum if users had a complete grasp of the system and what it's trying to achieve.  They might also then see how users like Lauda use their fake scam busting as a method to increase the damage they can inflict on honest members.

This would probably be helpful.  I know I was never even told I was placed on DT1 or what it was.  I didn't learn about the system until people started making crazy accusations about my use of it.

So... it's OK for you to be ignorant, but not other people?   Embarrassed

I'm not ignorant.  I learned.  You can't say the same as you're still up to your same BS.  Seriously, grow up.  You think your behavior is respectable?

This is the exact type of response I was talking about.  I left honest feedback for repeated successful interactions with longtime users and am targeted because Vod doesn't like those users and incorrectly assumed this meant I added them to DT2.  How truly shameful. 

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April 19, 2019, 08:42:42 PM
Last edit: April 19, 2019, 09:08:30 PM by Vod
 #17

and am targeted because Vod doesn't like those users and incorrectly assumed this meant I added them to DT2.  How truly shameful.  

I think you're being targeted because you spread your BS to multiple threads.... :/

I'm into creating universes, smiting people, writing holy books and listening to Prayer Messages (PMs).
BitcoinTalk Public Information Project (BPIP)  - BPIP Reports
"Masturbation makes you feel good but doesn't do anything for the person you're thinking of.  Just like prayer."
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