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Author Topic: Establishing A Will -With Collectibles In Mind  (Read 471 times)
ChiBitCTy
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April 21, 2019, 11:22:57 AM
Last edit: April 21, 2019, 01:40:12 PM by ChiBitCTy
Merited by TMAN (20), Flying Hellfish (5), suchmoon (4), krogothmanhattan (2), OgNasty (1), phishead (1), bill gator (1), ZipReg (1)
 #1

This is something I have wanted to post about for quite some time. With my career being in finance this kind of stuff is always forefront in my mind.  Sadly with the recent loss of one of our own..it was a brutal reminder how short and unexpected life can be and how important being prepared is.

Writing up a Will is mostly pretty easy and painless, and most often does not require a lawyer to establish (unless your estate is crazy BTC Moon status, then..have a pro set it up). Here’s an easy guide to establishing a Will (https://info.legalzoom.com/write-own-will-4007.html).

Why establish a Will? First off, to avoid probate. Die without a Will and the liquidation of your estate will be handled by the court system.  It’s timely, costly, and not how you want your estate handled at death!!  Also, and my main reason for posting this here, we have a very unusual hobby.  How many people do you know outside of here who knows what a Casascius coin is, how to value it, and where to sell it? Probably VERY few, if any. I have established a special section in my Will on how to liquidate my crypto coin collection.  I have two people that I highly trust listed in my Will as contacts to help sell my collection if I were to pass.

I have been told by 2-3 other regulars here that they’ve already done just this.  For those who haven’t, don’t put it off any longer. Be prepared overall, not just for collectibles, but for things like your wallets/addresses/seeds etc.

Disclaimer- This is written from a U.S. perspective. Those outside Murica should do some homework to make sure you’re doing it correctly/legally.  States in the US have some varying rules, so I’d research that as well.

I am going to have one or two of my legal buddies look this over to make sure I’m not missing anything..just FYI. If there’s anything I can do to help, don’t hesitate to ask!
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April 21, 2019, 12:20:52 PM
 #2

It's definitely a complicated topic and finding an accurate valuation of a whole collection can be difficult. Plus you have to properly classify all the coins, the difference in prices between an error/non-error coin can be staggering and easily overlooked by someone who is unfamiliar with them. I'm not a 100% sure, but I think in the UK you need a solicitor to witness a will before it is valid. I really need to start looking into this properly..

CryptoItems.com - Your source for detailed information, specifications and photos on lots of crypto-collectibles.
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April 21, 2019, 12:42:15 PM
Last edit: April 23, 2019, 04:56:28 PM by krogothmanhattan
 #3

Great topic Ty!

Came across this book thru a friend awhile back that am sure will answer a few questions

Cryptoasset Inheritance Planning: A Simple Guide for Owners

Edit: added photo

                    

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April 23, 2019, 02:26:22 PM
Last edit: April 25, 2019, 07:58:01 PM by ChiBitCTy
 #4

Great topic Ty!

Came across this book thru a friend awhile back that am sure will answer a few questions

Cryptoasset Inheritance Planning: A Simple Guide for Owners

Thanks for sharing this Krogo. I am surprised to even see this was made, but it goes to show how important this is. I am on my soap box w/this one...but I care about everyone's well being and it's part of the reason I got in to the financial industry, to help my friends out.
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April 24, 2019, 02:53:30 AM
 #5

Interesting topic.  I keep hearing stories of key people dying and the private keys are lost forever.  That is tricky to manage- how to pass those to loved ones who think bitcoin is a what a misguided dog does.

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April 24, 2019, 03:04:38 AM
Merited by ChiBitCTy (1)
 #6

Yes, good thinking.
It will pay off to be well prepared when the time comes.

Maybe you can have a look at the questions I asked myself and the answers I have found from the community.

[Postmortem crypto plan]: making sure my wife will know what to do!

“W̼̟̻͎̞̦̖̭̩͔͇̺͍̩̯̲̔̆̌̏͂͑ͦͧ͛̿̑̈́̎͑̽̍ͭ̏̇͜ill you draW̼̟̻͎̞̦̖̭̩͔͇̺͍̩̯̲̔̆̌̏͂͑ͦͧ͛̿̑̈́̎͑̽̍ͭ̏̇͜ me a sheep?”
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April 24, 2019, 03:20:21 AM
Last edit: April 24, 2019, 03:57:47 AM by Lauda
Merited by minerjones (1)
 #7

Decent thread. Has been on my mind not long ago as well. However, I'm more annoyed by the lack of widespread availability of proper dead man's switches. A will is not going to be that useful in cases where your security is very high, unless you want it only to cover collectibles or you want to store keys/passphrases in it (which would be a fatal mistake).

Expensive sir, must feed family. When free e-book version?

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April 24, 2019, 06:26:04 AM
 #8

if my kids appear on here trying to sell my collectibles please dont rip them off Smiley

makes an interesting topic as even if you do manage to pass them  on, whoever is the recipient may want to offload them and for many there isnt a market outside of this forum.

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April 24, 2019, 10:01:08 AM
 #9

if my kids appear on here trying to sell my collectibles please dont rip them off Smiley

makes an interesting topic as even if you do manage to pass them  on, whoever is the recipient may want to offload them and for many there isnt a market outside of this forum.
I’ve been thinking the same thing with my collectibles. I’ve told my wife where the passphrase, seed words and passwords for my wallets etc are to be found, but not sure about the collectibles, she wouldn’t have a clue.
I’ve been thinking of setting up an alternative account on here, which I would give the details off to her, but unsure how she could prove she is related to me. She wools only activate the account after my death?  I wouldn’t want her getting upset etc with trying to prove who she is.
Any ideas?
Been thinking of some code words to leave with someone on here ?
I know The Collectibles is a highly respected and trustworthy part of the forum , but ? Hopefully it won’t come to this.
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April 24, 2019, 10:18:15 AM
 #10

if my kids appear on here trying to sell my collectibles please dont rip them off Smiley

makes an interesting topic as even if you do manage to pass them  on, whoever is the recipient may want to offload them and for many there isnt a market outside of this forum.

   Sharks are always around when they smell newbies and people in distress.....have them browse thru past sales and see prices sodl.

   Send them here>> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5130318.0

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April 24, 2019, 01:55:17 PM
 #11

Decent thread. Has been on my mind not long ago as well. However, I'm more annoyed by the lack of widespread availability of proper dead man's switches. A will is not going to be that useful in cases where your security is very high, unless you want it only to cover collectibles or you want to store keys/passphrases in it (which would be a fatal mistake).

Expensive sir, must feed family. When free e-book version?

Why would a will not be a good idea in this circumstance? You can keep your will private. Lock it in a bank safety deposit box, keep it at a safety storage place, hide it somewhere...etc.  What are your other options ?
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April 24, 2019, 04:12:34 PM
 #12

Decent thread. Has been on my mind not long ago as well. However, I'm more annoyed by the lack of widespread availability of proper dead man's switches. A will is not going to be that useful in cases where your security is very high, unless you want it only to cover collectibles or you want to store keys/passphrases in it (which would be a fatal mistake).

Expensive sir, must feed family. When free e-book version?
Why would a will not be a good idea in this circumstance? You can keep your will private. Lock it in a bank safety deposit box, keep it at a safety storage place, hide it somewhere...etc.  What are your other options ?
Security through obscurity is not security. None of what you listed is safe. Some may argue that those deposit boxes are actually safe since it isn't just obscurity. However, wherever you rent something like that out you are pushing security through trust (e.g. trust that the bank will not compromise it; that it won't be robbed, etc.) not math.

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buckrogers
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April 24, 2019, 04:43:18 PM
 #13

Supposedly upon your death your safe deposit box gets locked down pending investigation. This is standard. If you have a co-signer on your safe deposit box, they should go to the bank as soon as possible and empty your box.

If you have cash in your safe deposit box, and no one gets there before it is locked down, they confiscate the cash pending its validation.

Stuff i've heard. Not sure if its 100% accurate, but this was from a bank employee, so ?

thanks!

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April 24, 2019, 04:55:24 PM
Last edit: April 24, 2019, 05:08:08 PM by krogothmanhattan
 #14

Supposedly upon your death your safe deposit box gets locked down pending investigation. This is standard. If you have a co-signer on your safe deposit box, they should go to the bank as soon as possible and empty your box.

If you have cash in your safe deposit box, and no one gets there before it is locked down, they confiscate the cash pending its validation.

Stuff i've heard. Not sure if its 100% accurate, but this was from a bank employee, so ?

thanks!

Yep always have your better half have access to your box (as long as you are in good terms with her) Wink

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Lauda
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April 24, 2019, 06:46:40 PM
 #15

Supposedly upon your death your safe deposit box gets locked down pending investigation. This is standard. If you have a co-signer on your safe deposit box, they should go to the bank as soon as possible and empty your box.

If you have cash in your safe deposit box, and no one gets there before it is locked down, they confiscate the cash pending its validation.

Stuff i've heard. Not sure if its 100% accurate, but this was from a bank employee, so ?

thanks!
If that is true, one of the people investigating could likely steal the written down key and steal the funds as soon as they reach the next machine. Therefore, in reality a safe deposit box only creates a fake sense of security.

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ChiBitCTy
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April 24, 2019, 07:01:16 PM
 #16

Decent thread. Has been on my mind not long ago as well. However, I'm more annoyed by the lack of widespread availability of proper dead man's switches. A will is not going to be that useful in cases where your security is very high, unless you want it only to cover collectibles or you want to store keys/passphrases in it (which would be a fatal mistake).

Expensive sir, must feed family. When free e-book version?
Why would a will not be a good idea in this circumstance? You can keep your will private. Lock it in a bank safety deposit box, keep it at a safety storage place, hide it somewhere...etc.  What are your other options ?
Security through obscurity is not security. None of what you listed is safe. Some may argue that those deposit boxes are actually safe since it isn't just obscurity. However, wherever you rent something like that out you are pushing security through trust (e.g. trust that the bank will not compromise it; that it won't be robbed, etc.) not math.

Well then what would you suggest? You've got to have some sort of plan. Some plan is better than no plan, right?
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April 24, 2019, 07:04:56 PM
 #17

Decent thread. Has been on my mind not long ago as well. However, I'm more annoyed by the lack of widespread availability of proper dead man's switches. A will is not going to be that useful in cases where your security is very high, unless you want it only to cover collectibles or you want to store keys/passphrases in it (which would be a fatal mistake).

Expensive sir, must feed family. When free e-book version?
Why would a will not be a good idea in this circumstance? You can keep your will private. Lock it in a bank safety deposit box, keep it at a safety storage place, hide it somewhere...etc.  What are your other options ?
Security through obscurity is not security. None of what you listed is safe. Some may argue that those deposit boxes are actually safe since it isn't just obscurity. However, wherever you rent something like that out you are pushing security through trust (e.g. trust that the bank will not compromise it; that it won't be robbed, etc.) not math.

Well then what would you suggest? You've got to have some sort of plan. Some plan is better than no plan, right?

If you own a collectible with the private key made by someone else and you think a "I promise I didnt keep the keys" is good enough.. then a bank is essentially just as safe.
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April 24, 2019, 07:07:35 PM
 #18

Decent thread. Has been on my mind not long ago as well. However, I'm more annoyed by the lack of widespread availability of proper dead man's switches. A will is not going to be that useful in cases where your security is very high, unless you want it only to cover collectibles or you want to store keys/passphrases in it (which would be a fatal mistake).

Expensive sir, must feed family. When free e-book version?
Why would a will not be a good idea in this circumstance? You can keep your will private. Lock it in a bank safety deposit box, keep it at a safety storage place, hide it somewhere...etc.  What are your other options ?
Security through obscurity is not security. None of what you listed is safe. Some may argue that those deposit boxes are actually safe since it isn't just obscurity. However, wherever you rent something like that out you are pushing security through trust (e.g. trust that the bank will not compromise it; that it won't be robbed, etc.) not math.

Well then what would you suggest? You've got to have some sort of plan. Some plan is better than no plan, right?

If you own a collectible with the private key made by someone else and you think a "I promise I didnt keep the keys" is good enough.. then a bank is essentially just as safe.

This is exactly what I was thinking.
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April 24, 2019, 07:09:27 PM
 #19

Supposedly upon your death your safe deposit box gets locked down pending investigation. This is standard. If you have a co-signer on your safe deposit box, they should go to the bank as soon as possible and empty your box.

This is (sort of) true and you gave good advice but for the wrong reason.  If you find out someone died and you rush to empty their safe deposit box before it's locked down, you'll be unwittingly giving yourself motive to any potential foul play.  

Also, even if you are the executer of a will, you will have difficulty accessing a safe deposit box without a legal order.  However, if you are a co-signer on a safe deposit box, you can access it with no issues ever, even after a death of the other signer.  Basically, if you want to avoid a hassle, a co-signer > a will, when it comes to accessing a safe deposit box.  When it comes to who is the legal owner of the items in the safe deposit box, that's where a will comes in.


If that is true, one of the people investigating could likely steal the written down key and steal the funds as soon as they reach the next machine. Therefore, in reality a safe deposit box only creates a fake sense of security.

What is a better alternative?  Imagine you have 7 or 8 figures of physical items.  Where would you store them?  Hide them in your house and hope nobody takes a wrench to your family members?

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April 24, 2019, 08:49:48 PM
 #20

Supposedly upon your death your safe deposit box gets locked down pending investigation. This is standard. If you have a co-signer on your safe deposit box, they should go to the bank as soon as possible and empty your box.

This is (sort of) true and you gave good advice but for the wrong reason.  If you find out someone died and you rush to empty their safe deposit box before it's locked down, you'll be unwittingly giving yourself motive to any potential foul play.  

Also, even if you are the executer of a will, you will have difficulty accessing a safe deposit box without a legal order.  However, if you are a co-signer on a safe deposit box, you can access it with no issues ever, even after a death of the other signer.  Basically, if you want to avoid a hassle, a co-signer > a will, when it comes to accessing a safe deposit box.  When it comes to who is the legal owner of the items in the safe deposit box, that's where a will comes in.


If that is true, one of the people investigating could likely steal the written down key and steal the funds as soon as they reach the next machine. Therefore, in reality a safe deposit box only creates a fake sense of security.

What is a better alternative?  Imagine you have 7 or 8 figures of physical items.  Where would you store them?  Hide them in your house and hope nobody takes a wrench to your family members?

I can attest that a cosigner to a Bank Safety Deposit box was not locked out of access post-mortem nor was any hold placed on access, nor was the box searched. If there was not a co-signer on the box-access to its contents would have been subject to arbitration.   
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