Is Lightning going to ensure Bitcoin dominance?

[James_CRYPTOSTAR.MONEY]

https://cryptostar.money/blog/will-dash-and-litecoin-be-struck-by-lighting/

Suggests that if users can pay with Bitcoin using Lighting enabled wallets than Dash and Litecoin are pointless. Is this right?

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[Haunebu]

Lightning network is still in its experimental phase and its too early to proclaim something like that op. Dash and Litecoin are still way ahead in terms of TX speeds and time at present.

We will know what the LN is truly capable of when its fully developed and ready to go.

[mocacinno]

I'm a fan of the lightning network, but it's meant for smaller payments, and is less safe than an on-chain transaction... So there'll always be a place for altcoins like litecoin or dash... Altough they might lose some of their marketshare due to the LN.

Just my opinion based on running a lightning-enabled website for a "long" time (at least, a long time in the lightning network existance timeframe).

Basically, like the article said: if i was selling a second hand DVD, i'd prefer being payed with a LN invoice, if i was selling my car and i wanted fast confirmations, i'd accept LTC

[Beerwizzard]

I'm a fan of the lightning network, but it's meant for smaller payments, and is less safe than an on-chain transaction... So there'll always be a place for altcoins like litecoin or dash... Altough they might lose some of their marketshare due to the LN.

I guess you would still be able to send on chain transactions if it is needed. But I agree that all those shitcoins will keep existing. There are a lot of coins with faster transactions and lower fees and they are competing with each other and none of them yet got a serious market dominance.

Basically, like the article said: if i was selling a second hand DVD, i'd prefer being payed with a LN invoice, if i was selling my car and i wanted fast confirmations, i'd accept LTC

Emm, that's what LN is created for. It doesn't seem like someone wants to buy an expensive car and he can't wait some minutes and pay an extra dollar as a fee.

[mk4]

Re: Is Lightning going to ensure Bitcoin dominance?

I mean, bitcoin is still the dominant coin even if LN is still in it's alpha/beta stage. 🤷 But yea, I think it's going to affect the percentage of BTC's dominance by a bit(but probably not that much). When LN becomes successful, those people who say "how can I buy coffee with my BTC? with these fees" can finally shut up.

Suggests that if users can pay with Bitcoin using Lighting enabled wallets than Dash and Litecoin are pointless. Is this right?

They'll probably lose a bit of recognition in the speed category, but LTC still has it's own uses; taking into consideration that as far as I know they're testing mimblewimble on LTC.

[Slow death]

Suggests that if users can pay with Bitcoin using Lighting enabled wallets than Dash and Litecoin are pointless. Is this right?

I will not make comparisons between altcoins Vs bitcoins because this discussion never ends but what we have  ask is:

- Why do people need Litecoin?

- Why Do People Need Dash?

we will eventually see the crypto world being legalized, probably anonymous coins will be targeted by governments. the technology will be much better in a few years and will allow bitcoin to be faster and with much less fees and a good investment, this will cause many altcoins to disappear or not have a large popularity that currently have

[leonair]

Of course it'll but for as long as it's not yet implemented and the transactions are not yet secured enough with it then we can't tell what will happen next. If the time comes that it's fully implemented with no underlying problems afterwards then I'm confident that it'll surely affect the dominance of Bitcoin over some other altcoins as paying smaller would become faster and cheaper.

Faster and cheaper fees is the real deal with Cryptocurrencies right now and even though Bitcoin doesn't have it yet but still it's the most used Crypto.

[dothebeats]

If eCommerce were to get in to cryptomarkets then yes, the lightning network would help ensure bitcoin dominance. If not, I don't think it will even be that significant to begin with. Well, LN is already helping the network in its own ways, but for people to really see its worth, there has to be some large volume of transactions coming in, else it's just another option for people who want to just try it out or avoid the expensive fees on the main chain.

[franky1]

LN is a separate independant network, the units of account of LN (msats) are not even recognised on the bitcoin network

LN is not even fixed/tethered to bitcoin. you can change the chainhash to be litecoin or other alts
infact you can run a litewallet that api's to a factory/server and not even worry about blockchains
thus LN can actually promote litecoin far more than bitcoin because the onramp (cost/time) to lock collateral to LN is faster and cheaper using litecoin

people keep assuming that LN is a sole unique feature that is only bitcoin enabled due to the silly buzz words like "layer" but the reality is that LN is not a layer at all. its just fluffy buzzword used for PR to do the fame game of garnering sponsorship/funding by trying to mention the word bitcoin/crypto/blockchain being related to LN

[nutildah]

LN is a separate independant network, the units of account of LN (msats) are not even recognised on the bitcoin network

LN is not even fixed/tethered to bitcoin. you can change the chainhash to be litecoin or other alts
thus LN can actually promote litecoin far more than bitcoin because the onramp (cost/time) to lock collateral to LN is faster and cheaper using litecoin

people keep assuming that LN is a sole unique feature that is only bitcoin enabled due to the silly buzz words like "layer" but the reality is that LN is not a layer at all. its just fluffy buzzword used for PR to do the fame game of garnering sponsorship/funding by trying to mention the word bitcoin/crypto/blockchain being related to LN

It is a second layer protocol that serves to help scale bitcoin. The main opponents of LN tend to be those who hold a grudge against bitcoin and don't want it to achieve even greater levels of success. No one is conflating it with being bitcoin. So far the whole milisats issue has proven to be a non-problem.

[Yakamoto]

https://cryptostar.money/blog/will-dash-and-litecoin-be-struck-by-lighting/

Suggests that if users can pay with Bitcoin using Lighting enabled wallets than Dash and Litecoin are pointless. Is this right?

As other users have mentioned, the lightning network isn't ready for large-scale implementation, despite the fact that it has been in development for a number of years by now. Once it does get completed and can work effectively, then we can argue about whether Litecoin and Dash have any place in the crypto marketplace. Until they, they still serve their own purpose. I personally don't think that either Litecoin or Dash would become "obsolete" since many other cryptos would be tossed out due to their obsolescence first.

I'm trying to remember when they started to work on the Lightning network, it was probably at least conceptualized 5 years ago if they weren't actively working on it.

[WhyFhy]

In due time yes. Simple answer for a simple question

[Genemind]

I think LN has to go through a lot of tests first before they proceed to further adoption. There would be conflicts of people would have bitcoin yet don't know how to transact it with Ln. I wonder why they have to choose only between Litecoin and dash where there are really best coins on top of the list.

[franky1]

It is a second layer protocol that serves to help scale bitcoin. The main opponents of LN tend to be those who hold a grudge against bitcoin and don't want it to achieve even greater levels of success. No one is conflating it with being bitcoin. So far the whole milisats issue has proven to be a non-problem.

its not a bitcoin layer. LN is its own network.. the N of LN stands for network.
LN is not acronym'd BL2

IF and im being strong emphatic here. IF LN was a utility thats only sole function was to tender to bitcoin and actually catered to bitcoin alone. that would be a start to a whole different story.
also
IF and again strongly emphatic here IF LN when you run scenarios actually done what it proposes then it would be of benefit
LN is for a small niche utility which has not been met and at the moment wont be met. thus over promoted as some mass solution to bitcoin woes, even though bitcoins woes are caused by devs stifling bitcoin just to promote LN

there are many stats around like bitcoin UTXO stats, coinage which reveal how often people 'spend' bitcoin. even Visacard have statistics of how often people spend fiat. and if you put these spending habits against LN's scenarios. such as opening a group of channels(for efficient chance of route success) for a month. and work out the cost/utility benefit of saving in LN and the onramp tx utilisd to get in and out on bitcoins network. LN is not so 'infinite/instant/cheap'

i think too many people throw around buzzwords like LN, layers, scaling, but never actually bother using the systems/running scenario's. they just want to jump on the promo band wagon without actually knowing the details


in short. did bank promissory notes increase the adoption of gold. or actually decrease the number of gold hoarders, and instead increase the adoption of cheaper options like nickel and copper coins once people wished to settle up

[mk4]

In due time yes. Simple answer for a simple question

Nope, not guaranteed at all. Though the LN team and the LN wallet makers are definitely doing great and that I'm definitely hoping for LN's success, it's success rate is definitely NOT 100%. We simply don't know yet.

[WhyFhy]

In due time yes. Simple answer for a simple question

Nope, not guaranteed at all. Though the LN team and the LN wallet makers are definitely doing great and that I'm definitely hoping for LN's success, it's success rate is definitely NOT 100%. We simply don't know yet.

Suite yourself, if your under weight and dont care to much about custodial (we are talking under .2BTC here) LN is doing just fine from my experience.
I'm gonna advocate it no matter what really.


But honestly even if LN somehow fails, it will have a successor based on the same concept (Layer 2) I believe Layer 2 IS the answer to the scaling problem, how the final execution will happen is beyond me.

A friend of mine told me he just hope's its worked out in the long run and LN will be to BTC what TCP is to the internet.

[mk4]

Suite yourself, if your under weight and dont care to much about custodial (we are talking under .2BTC here) LN is doing just fine from my experience.
I'm gonna advocate it no matter what really.

Never said I wasn't for LN, as I'm definitely for it. My point was just that there are no guarantees for it's success.

But honestly even if LN somehow fails, it will have a successor based on the same concept (Layer 2) I believe Layer 2 IS the answer to the scaling problem, how the final execution will happen is beyond me.

Pretty much. The amount of people who think LN is only bitcoin's solution to the scaling problem is staggering. It's just the very tip of the iceberg.

[pooya87]

Dash and Litecoin ARE pointless with or without lightning network. Dash is a centralized premined coin that their developers have always been shady about it and litecoin is a copy of bitcoin with no innovations other than lower time between blocks and pointless algorithm change to scrypt which achieved nothing.

the real competition of bitcoin is a coin with different technology that is innovative and not just copies bitcoin. and no, in my opinion LN is not a guarantee to ensure bitcoin dominance. but you have to realize that 95% of the current coins have no innovation and are so poorly designed that they can't even begin to compete with bitcoin so bitcoin already has more than 98% dominance over the market with LN it will turn into 99%!

[okala]

Lightning network is still in its experimental phase and its too early to proclaim something like that op. Dash and Litecoin are still way ahead in terms of TX speeds and time at present.

We will know what the LN is truly capable of when its fully developed and ready to go.

I agree with you  lightning network despite it high technicality stiil remains the answers to the retail problems of bitcoin long block confirmation process, I don't agree on the third party involvement in the amazon bitcoin lightening process due to the fact that it will go through another medium before arriving at it final destination which is one of the things bitcoin try to avoid. But the fact still remains that if bitcoin lightening network is well improve on and can answer to the long confirmation process of bitcoin transaction the retail shopping will be easier for both the shops owner and they client.

[James_CRYPTOSTAR.MONEY]

Summary
I am the original poster (OP). I would like to thank everyone who responded. I have learnt that Lightning Network is a Level 2 protocol that can work with many blockchains. It reduces fees and transaction times at the expense of some security. It is also very early days in its development and there is no guarantee that it will work at scale as its inventors hope.

The majority view seems to be that if Lightning Network works, and it is a big 'if', then it would, to some degree make altcoins slightly less attractive for smaller transactions as suggested by the original article but if you were selling something of high value like a car you are unlikely to object to the slightly higher fee and block time of the Bitcoin network.

[boyptc]

I have used lightning network and as moccacino pointed out it is for smaller transactions like payment for coffee shops.

People would still look for altcoins that has smaller fees but lightning network is truly promising.

[pushups44]

I'm a fan of the lightning network, but it's meant for smaller payments, and is less safe than an on-chain transaction... So there'll always be a place for altcoins like litecoin or dash... Altough they might lose some of their marketshare due to the LN.

Just my opinion based on running a lightning-enabled website for a "long" time (at least, a long time in the lightning network existance timeframe).

Basically, like the article said: if i was selling a second hand DVD, i'd prefer being payed with a LN invoice, if i was selling my car and i wanted fast confirmations, i'd accept LTC

I am also a fan of the Lightning Network, but there will always be room for Litecoin, especially when atomic swaps become available. On-chain transactions on the Litecoin blockchain are secure and they will be much cheaper than those on bitcoin. I see Litecoin having a complementary role, just as Charlie Lee envisaged.

[omone1]

Bitcoin has always been dominance and will stay dominance as long as cryptocurrency is concerned. Have never use LTC and DASH, I only use ETH when I needed to quickly buy a token in a strong FA, lightening network will send many coins to oblivion. Some wallet will likely implement LN in the future.

[pooya87]

I have learnt that Lightning Network is a Level 2 protocol that can work with many blockchains. It reduces fees and transaction times at the expense of some security.

it is second "layer" as in a layer that only works on top of another (main) layer which is the on chain bitcoin transactions. it is not for "many blockchains" instead it is designed and is working on top of bitcoin. but like many other things that bitcoin starts, other altcoins copy and run their own as they are doing now. that  doesn't change the fact that LN is a network built for and on top of bitcoin.

[kryptqnick]

https://cryptostar.money/blog/will-dash-and-litecoin-be-struck-by-lighting/

Suggests that if users can pay with Bitcoin using Lighting enabled wallets than Dash and Litecoin are pointless. Is this right?

Dash and litecoin are in no way a threat to Bitcoin anyway. They don't have more or even the same amount of users even if they are combined. Moreover, like was rightly noted before in the thread, the Lightning Network is not exclusively built for Bitcoin. It can work with other Blockchains, and I have recently seen an article on LN application to Monero or something like that.
LN does not necessarily mean more Bitcoin followers, and bitcoiners don't widely recognize LN. This project is pretty interesting and successful, but it's not even a long-term solution to Bitcoin's problems.

[incomefromcoins]

Lightning may ensure merchant acceptance for bitcoin and support other cryptocurrencies as well Lightening network pilot project with Amazon  will be major success

[franky1]

it is second "layer" as in a layer that only works on top of another (main) layer which is the on chain bitcoin transactions.

wrong
1. LN uses HTLC's for payment not bitcoin CLTV's
2. the denomination(unit of account) of LN is Msat which is something bitcoin does not accept
3. LN can function with just swapping(hot potato) msats using lite wallets that do not api/RPC a blockchain
4. if you were to API/RPC a blockchain your node can use the chainhash of litecoin, vertcoin or others. not just btc

it is not for "many blockchains" instead it is designed and is working on top of bitcoin.

5. refer to point 4 above
6. LN is a single network where multiple nodes can communicate where ach node can designate a different chainhash, to allow swapping on the same network

but like many other things that bitcoin starts, other altcoins copy and run their own as they are doing now. that  doesn't change the fact that LN is a network built for and on top of bitcoin.

LN was built and then bitcoin had to change and get a new tx format to be LN compatible. also litecoin added this tx format before bitcoin did, thus technically bitcoin copied litecoin

have a nice day

[pooya87]

wrong
1. LN uses HTLC's for payment not bitcoin CLTV's
2. the denomination(unit of account) of LN is Msat which is something bitcoin does not accept
3. LN can function with just swapping(hot potato) msats using lite wallets that do not api/RPC a blockchain
4. if you were to API/RPC a blockchain your node can use the chainhash of litecoin, vertcoin or others. not just btc
5. refer to point 4 above
6. LN is a single network where multiple nodes can communicate where ach node can designate a different chainhash, to allow swapping on the same network

1. it still doesn't make what i said wrong!
2. same as 1 although it is a very questionable decision to create msat in my opinion.
3-4-5-6. it sounds like you are saying if there is a multi-coin wallet like Jaxx for example then since that wallet supports more coins then there is no difference between those coins! when you have bitcoin in your LN channel you have bitcoin in your LN channel not litecoin or vertcoin or... if you want those you have to exchange them with someone else who wants bitcoin in return.

LN was built and then bitcoin had to change and get a new tx format to be LN compatible. also litecoin added this tx format before bitcoin did, thus technically bitcoin copied litecoin

the  code was written for bitcoin then LTC and a dozen other small altcoins pulled the code in their client from bitcoin and activated it because they were small and had no drama like bitcoin had.

[Kelvinikke]

Actually lightning technology has improved the transaction speed of bitcoin and hope to see far more developments to see a much more higher speed than present. Bitcoin will surely dominate but that is far fetch from now. We can only hope that in future if bitcoin is accepted by many countries lightning technology would have advanced to speed bitcoin transactions.

[BitcoinPanther]

I do not think so, I guess it solves the scalability of Bitcoin off chain but it can also be implemented to other Altcoin which can also do the same effect.  Aside from that LN as stated is still in development stage so a lot of experimentation and testing is require.  I won't rely on it for the dominance, probably a more in built blockchain accelerators will be created or proposed even before LN is fully tested.

Using Bitcoin , I can wait 3 confirmations and consider a transaction complete after ~30 minutes.
Using Litecoin, I can wait 6 confirmations and consider a transaction complete after ~15 minutes.

Using LN offchain network that timelocks bitcoin or litecoin,
I have to wait whatever the time lock is set too (usually ~2 weeks or longer) for the final transaction to be completed /redeemed onchain.

While LN offchain IOUs are fast, they are still IOUs and not bitcoin, as LN can also work with litecoin and others.

Once LN reaches global acceptance , people will buy the LN IOUs for fiat , and cash out the LN IOU to fiat,
ignoring the underlying blockchain completely.

Where as some people buy btc or ltc and just hold it ,
with LN their is no point to doing this as it main purpose is a payment service where middle men make money off of fees.
Which is why LN users will eventually ignore the underlying blockchain completely, just as people that use checks never bother verifying the financial stability of their banks.   

Sounds discouraging to the point that it implores a total ignore on the blockchain technology.

[dentolas]

The world is full of predictions! Especially in crypto there is a need to refrain the excitement because usually noyhing is rarely what it seems to be...
All crypto is on an experimental phase, and there is so much speculation and exageration that we are constantly building scenarios in our heads, some of them turn to be right, others don't. For me the LN is something more of a mith until is useable and working...
Then we'll be able to discuss... (besides, other projects are also developing, so who knows how crypto will look when LN is ready?)

[talkbitcoin]

bitcoin's dominance has always came from the utilities that it offers people all around the world without needing any kind of third party or middlemen. and also the fact that bitcoin has always been one of a kind. and this will continue to be the case. things like lightning network that are added to bitcoin are always going to help improve it even further. so yes but it is more like saying in a race that the first person is far far ahead that others don't see him anymore, what can ensure his win!

[franky1]

bitcoin's dominance has always came from the utilities that it offers people all around the world without needing any kind of third party or middlemen.

using LN you are in a contract with another entity. meaning they need to be online and in agreement just to authorise your IOU
using LN to pay random outsiders you rely on other entities that need to be online, in agreement, and funded

LN is not a push to destination. LN is a get parties to hot-potato their balances on your behalf

and also the fact that bitcoin has always been one of a kind. and this will continue to be the case. things like lightning network that are added to bitcoin are always going to help improve it even further. so yes but it is more like saying in a race that the first person is far far ahead that others don't see him anymore, what can ensure his win!

bitcoin is/was a digital cash source to destination one transfer.
LN  is like banking. where funds flow through the reserves of a local 'bank' then regional 'bank' the head office 'bank' then the destinations head bank, regional then local.. its why banks are identified by their 'routing/sort codes' so they can identify th path the funds need to route/sort through

LN is not new business idea/tech. its actually a very old business model. lock in gold make it sound like gold is expensive/slow to handle, offer some paper fast mthod of transfer but still try to persuade users not to settle back to real assets. if anything offer them other cheaper assets to exit via, such as nickel, copper coins