Is staying out of debt, legitimacy?

[marcotheminer]

I've come to this question couple times now. I feel one can take on short term debts without it being tied to the person's legitimacy. Borrowing can be a savior in times. Sure, there should be track record and honesty too and that's considered if-to-be fulfilled by the lender.

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[PrimeNumber7]

Taking out loans of increasing sizes in a short period of time looks suspicious.

Vouching for sockpuppets in order to allow them to obtain loans is a clear indication of bad intentions.

I saw a thread where you were asking for a loan and someone offered to gift you what you were asking for. If you ask for a loan after that it will look very strange.

[Lauda]

If one is going in and out of debt frequently it is a sign that they are not good at managing their finances and I wouldn't trust such a person with more than 1 satoshi.

[TMAN]

I've come to this question couple times now. I feel one can take on short term debts without it being tied to the person's legitimacy. Borrowing can be a savior in times. Sure, there should be track record and honesty too and that's considered if-to-be fulfilled by the lender.

Yes and no... 

a short term bridge to assist with cashflow that is planned is one thing, asking for quick/emergency loans is another. Also early repayments V late - communication V none.

[AverageGlabella]

I used to have the same outlook on others that have posted here but I've come to the conclusion that asking for a loan is the very last ditch effort. By asking for a loan you are admitting that you have got yourself in a position which was done via poor money management. The fact that you got yourself into a position where borrowing money was necessary likely means you'll be in that position come repayment time. This isn't always the case obviously but my point is I would have to be at deaths door to request money off anyone else because that's just my moral stand point. As soon as you have borrowed money you are discrediting your name and stating that you are poor at money management. I would be selling personal belongings or working three jobs before I requested money off anyone. Loans are a bad investment too further showing you are bad with money management.

I'll admit that things come up sometimes and really screws your life up but people are abusing loans as a "I need more money this week and I don't want to cut my luxury life out" screw that. Stop eating out live without heating for a month if you have too. Sell your personal belongings before asking anyone for money. 

[suchmoon]

You got a gift marco... stop looking for excuses to borrow again. The amount of the gift exceeds anything you could have hoped to borrow and it carries no interest so you're set for life as far as your forum activities are concerned. Get a job.

[marcotheminer]

You got a gift marco... stop looking for excuses to borrow again. The amount of the gift exceeds anything you could have hoped to borrow and it carries no interest so you're set for life as far as your forum activities are concerned. Get a job.

Who says I am looking for a new loan? More loans will be sought perhaps one day, for now $250 was a solid boost up.

If one is going in and out of debt frequently it is a sign that they are not good at managing their finances and I wouldn't trust such a person with more than 1 satoshi.

Not necessarily - bad at communicating perhaps, within the requirements of being transparent but not too much. I've explained why I've been late in the past and settled it fine with lenders.


Cheers for other replies too.

[DireWolfM14]

Sure, there should be track record and honesty too and that's considered if-to-be fulfilled by the lender.

And this is exactly why I would never lend to you.  Your track record of being late to repay, you've been deceitful, and top it off with healthy amount of conceit despite all your shortcomings.

jackg gave you a very generous gift, and you even alluded to "paying it forward."  Had that actually happened I may have considered revising the trust rating I left you.  But here you are, feeling the waters to see if it's safe to ask for another hand out?

Dude, go accomplish something; earn a buck the traditional, honest way; develop some pride in yourself.  This isn't going to go the way you hope.  

[suchmoon]

Who says I am looking for a new loan?

Uhm... you are:

More loans will be sought perhaps one day

Tell you what - let me know what your actual skills are - not "trading" or some other BS, but actual real-life experience, preferably something that can be done online but if you're a plumber that's fine too. Let's figure out a job for you to do to earn $250 and stay off the begging/borrowing/trolling/etc nonsense.

[eddie13]

"Is staying out of debt, legitimacy?"

Not necessarily.  It depends on how you use it. Not defaulting on debt is legitimacy..
Their are many excellent and very legitimate things you can do with debt and also very terrible things you can do with it. It is up to you.
Some people use debt to make investments and get rich while others use debt for frivolous things and get/stay very poor..
You should never default or be late no matter what you use debt for..

[o_e_l_e_o]

Some people use debt to make investments and get rich while others use debt for frivolous things and get/stay very poor.

I think the distinction to made me here is between business loans and loans for large purchases (mortgages, cars, that kind of thing), and personal loans for living expenses.

Loans are an absolutely necessity in the world. The vast majority of business don't have the capital to just start operating. The vast majority of people don't have the capital to just buy a house. A planned loan with a structured repayment scheme is not only fine, but a necessity for the world to work.

What isn't fine is small, repeated loans to pay basic living expenses, pay everyday outgoings, pay off other loans, etc. This shows that you are living outside of your means, you have poor money management/financial skills, and you don't plan for the future. I wouldn't trust someone with this kind of behavior with further loans.

[LoyceV]

To answer the topic title ("Is staying out of debt, legitimacy?"): No, not necessarily. But in your case: making new debts does not help your reputation.

[Vod]

I feel one can take on short term debts without it being tied to the person's legitimacy.

Everyone feels this.  That's why we take out lines of credit and loans.  But not everyone can pay back, and not everyone remembers everything, so warning via trust is the best thing to do.

[marcotheminer]

I feel one can take on short term debts without it being tied to the person's legitimacy.

Everyone feels this.  That's why we take out lines of credit and loans.  But not everyone can pay back, and not everyone remembers everything, so warning via trust is the best thing to do.

Fair enough. Shouldn't have fucked up but here we are. Life goes on anyway, will keep working at it.

[TMAN]

Fair enough. Shouldn't have fucked up but here we are. Life goes on anyway, will keep working at it.

1st time a decent attitude has come across in your posts.. This will be the only way to get any tags removed fella, time and a great attitude with different behavior

[LoyceV]

Fair enough. Shouldn't have fucked up but here we are. Life goes on anyway, will keep working at it.

1st time a decent attitude has come across in your posts.. This will be the only way to get any tags removed fella, time and a great attitude with different behavior

Indeed. So (marcotheminer) please stop trying to take on new loans. Despite many warnings that it's shady behaviour at best, you kept making new debts and continued to prove everyone right by paying back late.
I'd be happy to remove my red tag if you don't ask for money for 6 months (I don't think -2000 or -1000 makes much of a difference anyway).

[TMAN]

Fair enough. Shouldn't have fucked up but here we are. Life goes on anyway, will keep working at it.

1st time a decent attitude has come across in your posts.. This will be the only way to get any tags removed fella, time and a great attitude with different behavior

Indeed. So (marcotheminer) please stop trying to take on new loans. Despite many warnings that it's shady behaviour at best, you kept making new debts and continued to prove everyone right by paying back late.
I'd be happy to remove my red tag if you don't ask for money for 6 months (I don't think -2000 or -1000 makes much of a difference anyway).

As an incentive I have dropped my tag (enough others on there already) so.. Marco, 1 down - lots to go, not everyone else will be quite as willing to remove as me so you will have work to do, but its a start for you fella.

[YOSHIE]

In the legitimacy theory it can be said that it can reduce the cost of stressing your debt. This is one form of external pressure. In this case, what is noteworthy is your current financial problem. Where, maybe you have not been financially independent.
Especially still in debt. Indeed, debt is the solution most often carried out by people when experiencing financial problems.
However, it turns out that most debts are actually catastrophic for the borrower because sometimes when they are owed they do not pay attention to their long-term risks.
In this situation certainly cannot say if debt is a bad choice, because it could be that debt is the only way available.
If you belong to a group of people who are in debt and want to quickly deal with it, Prioritize Paying Off Your Debt, by way of frugality, side work, calculating expenses, never delaying to pay debts.

[lightcar]

If one is going in and out of debt frequently it is a sign that they are not good at managing their finances and I wouldn't trust such a person with more than 1 satoshi.

Is Donald Trump not good with finances?  Trump has declared bankruptcy multiple times and has been in serious debt trouble but look where he is know.  He is a multi billionaire.

[Lauda]

If one is going in and out of debt frequently it is a sign that they are not good at managing their finances and I wouldn't trust such a person with more than 1 satoshi.

Is Donald Trump not good with finances?  Trump has declared bankruptcy multiple times and has been in serious debt trouble but look where he is know.  He is a multi billionaire.

Appeal to exteremes fallacy. Nothing to see here.

[Quickseller]

Fair enough. Shouldn't have fucked up but here we are. Life goes on anyway, will keep working at it.

1st time a decent attitude has come across in your posts.. This will be the only way to get any tags removed fella, time and a great attitude with different behavior

Indeed. So (marcotheminer) please stop trying to take on new loans. Despite many warnings that it's shady behaviour at best, you kept making new debts and continued to prove everyone right by paying back late.
I'd be happy to remove my red tag if you don't ask for money for 6 months (I don't think -2000 or -1000 makes much of a difference anyway).

regarding TMANs post, I don’t see what attitude has to do with the trust system. It seems that TMAN is saying his trust will improve if Marco gets along with those are in charge of the trust system.

For a group of people who claim to be experts in finding scammers (based on how many tags they hand out), you are all very bad at articulating why someone looks untrustworthy. My opinion is that Marco looked somewhat suspicious and a bunch of people decided to tag him, and some more decided to pile on.

Taking out many loans is not necessarily suspicious. Being late (even 2 times) isn’t a big deal so long as the lender is duly compensated. If someone has 2 late payments on their credit report, both showing the payment 30 days late, they will probably not be ineligible for a “prime” loans — that is a loan on the most favorable terms a bank would offer.

Don’t get me wrong, there are a lot of other things that make Marco look untrustworthy, primarily increasing the amount of money he is asking to borrow at a time.

[TMAN]

@qs Marco admits to fucking up, anyone who makes a statement like that deserves a little bit of recognition in my book, plus with so many other tags it’s not as if he is totally off the hook based on a single removal

[LoyceV]

regarding TMANs post, I don’t see what attitude has to do with the trust system. It seems that TMAN is saying his trust will improve if Marco gets along with those are in charge of the trust system.

It's the first time I saw marcotheminer admit he was wrong, which could be the first step in changing his ways.

Don’t get me wrong, there are a lot of other things that make Marco look untrustworthy, primarily increasing the amount of money he is asking to borrow at a time.

That is exactly why I tagged him.

[marcotheminer]

@TMAN: thank you for that.

@LoyceV: I realised asking for a larger loan was unlikely to be filled - I did so because the circumstances asked for it. I was ready to reveal everything to the lender (it would've even been possible to have them work on it themselves).

Putting that aside, QS makes some good points. I agree with this too:

My opinion is that Marco looked somewhat suspicious and a bunch of people decided to tag him, and some more decided to pile on.

Though I cannot seem to come to a possible solution for this (as in forum-wide trust 'regulations'). It is natural to voice the concerns of others if you are even in the slightest agreement of what they have voiced-concern-over initially.

[DireWolfM14]

For a group of people who claim to be experts in finding scammers (based on how many tags they hand out), you are all very bad at articulating why someone looks untrustworthy. My opinion is that Marco looked somewhat suspicious and a bunch of people decided to tag him, and some more decided to pile on.

Taking out many loans is not necessarily suspicious. Being late (even 2 times) isn’t a big deal so long as the lender is duly compensated. If someone has 2 late payments on their credit report, both showing the payment 30 days late, they will probably not be ineligible for a “prime” loans — that is a loan on the most favorable terms a bank would offer.

My review of marco is pretty clear.  The two late payments (and at least one more since) aren't why I left him a negative review, it was because of the way he handled himself afterwords.  His lack of accountability, concern, and humility is what made me feel obligated to label him as untrustworthy.  The fact that he later started asking for much bigger loans didn't help his situation.  Being late on two payments isn't a big deal, in my opinion.  Everyone runs into hard times.  But there are other factors to marco's story which contributed to my skepticism.

I'm not counting marco out, I don't think he's beyond the point of having all of his red trust removed.  I'm hopeful the gift from jackg will help him get his financial situation turned around, and he'll be able to honor his pledge to pass on Jack's generosity.

I will not forget to pass on your generosity. Thank you Jack, enormously.