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Author Topic: The current permaban situation is ridiculous  (Read 1136 times)
Quickseller
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May 15, 2019, 04:17:04 PM
 #41

I really did not want to get into this, but I do think the situation as of now is getting out of hand.
We have bots posting tons of garbage getting banned, BUT good / legit users getting a smackdown on something they did years ago. And some good users are NOT COMING BACK.

Users can appeal. If we feel that they're a net positive and it was for something that happened years ago then a sig ban will likely be issued. Several have already been done today and many more will likely come.


The problem is that they some are not appealing. I know 1 user IRL that just walked away.
Now there were other factors involved, but this was the final push.
*That* is part of the issue. He might be back, might not. You can now find him spending a lot of time on an ieee board.

-Dave

Plagiarism is a very serious problem here that causes a lot of damage. If you are caught doing this, I think it is appropriate to force people to make an argument as to what you are going to contribute to let the person come back.

If someone “walks away” after getting caught, IMO, they don’t care a lot about being able to stay. A long term signature ban is appropriate for these people and I don’t think anyone is going to make a successful argument against handing out signature bans for this.

If you are aware of anyone who just “walks away” and you think they should be allowed to return, you should encourage them to appeal their ban with reasons to why returning would benefit the forum.
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May 15, 2019, 04:21:06 PM
 #42

Global mods were given the ability to ban signatures only yesterday. Do you think we can get through all the appeals in one day? Be patient.
It is not the same for all because there are some components that are really different from user to user:
- Past contributions: The more good past contributions, the higher chance to be listed in prioritising cases to handle first.
- Severity of plagiarism: number of plagiarism, and intention of plagiarism;
- Support from community members: without supports or lack of support somehow means that user likely does not deserve a ban uplift.
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May 15, 2019, 04:30:35 PM
 #43


If you are aware of anyone who just “walks away” and you think they should be allowed to return, you should encourage them to appeal their ban with reasons to why returning would benefit the forum.

I really did not want to go down this road, so I will leave it at this:
They were banned for plagiarism for several things for several years, from many places. The issue is that it was *their* work. Proving that would reveal:

1) Their real name.
2) Their real job.
3) 90% of their home address, 99.9999% of their work address.
4) Where they went to school.

So, he walks away.

His choice. Not going to get into it.

-Dave



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hilariousetc
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May 15, 2019, 04:36:06 PM
 #44

I really did not want to get into this, but I do think the situation as of now is getting out of hand.
We have bots posting tons of garbage getting banned, BUT good / legit users getting a smackdown on something they did years ago. And some good users are NOT COMING BACK.

Users can appeal. If we feel that they're a net positive and it was for something that happened years ago then a sig ban will likely be issued. Several have already been done today and many more will likely come.


The problem is that they some are not appealing. I know 1 user IRL that just walked away.
Now there were other factors involved, but this was the final push.
*That* is part of the issue. He might be back, might not. You can now find him spending a lot of time on an ieee board.

-Dave


Well there's nothing we can do about that but I'm sure word will spread pretty quick and many users will be reappearing to try claim their accounts back. Most people who got banned are probably still here just on alts so I'm they'll see it. Tell your friend he can appeal if he wants. I'm not sure what you're complaining about here though. Would you rather us not issue sig bans and just leave everyone permanently banned?


If you are aware of anyone who just “walks away” and you think they should be allowed to return, you should encourage them to appeal their ban with reasons to why returning would benefit the forum.

I really did not want to go down this road, so I will leave it at this:
They were banned for plagiarism for several things for several years, from many places. The issue is that it was *their* work. Proving that would reveal:

1) Their real name.
2) Their real job.
3) 90% of their home address, 99.9999% of their work address.
4) Where they went to school.

So, he walks away.

His choice. Not going to get into it.

-Dave




They can appeal to mods or admins in private if they feel like they can't make their claim publicly.

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Quickseller
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May 15, 2019, 04:50:45 PM
 #45


If you are aware of anyone who just “walks away” and you think they should be allowed to return, you should encourage them to appeal their ban with reasons to why returning would benefit the forum.

I really did not want to go down this road, so I will leave it at this:
They were banned for plagiarism for several things for several years, from many places. The issue is that it was *their* work. Proving that would reveal:

1) Their real name.
2) Their real job.
3) 90% of their home address, 99.9999% of their work address.
4) Where they went to school.

So, he walks away.

His choice. Not going to get into it.

-Dave

I don’t understand how or why they would need to disclose that information. The administration wants to know what benefits to the forum there would be if the person is able to continue posting on the forum. In general, this would be shown by pointing to previous posts the person has made and how they are beneficial.

As hilarious said, you can also appeal privately via the email address on the ban message.
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May 15, 2019, 05:04:07 PM
 #46

Well there's nothing we can do about that but I'm sure word will spread pretty quick and many users will be reappearing to try claim their accounts back. Most people who got banned are probably still here just on alts so I'm they'll see it. Tell your friend he can appeal if he wants. I'm not sure what you're complaining about here though. Would you rather us not issue sig bans and just leave everyone permanently banned?

No, I agree with the banning. I have an issue with digging up posts from 4 and 5 years ago, hitting people who are not monetizing their sig. You could have hit him with sig ban and he never would have cared.
Or given a 90 day vacation from the forum with a stern warning. Or nuked the posts from 2014.

They can appeal to mods or admins in private if they feel like they can't make their claim publicly.

Discussed that with him. Not interested in anyone knowing who he is IRL.
Not you, not theymos, not anyone. Only reason I know is because I have known him for 30+ 40+ (crap I'm old) years. And he is not real happy with the fact that I know his forum use or the fact that I am talking about it here. But, I think this discussion needs to exist.

The other issue would be that since he has almost no merit and a lower post count it's going to be tough to make a good defense.

Yes, it's a very rare 1 off case, but it's still there. And if I know 1 person who had it happen, I will bet you just about any amount there is at least one more.
Possibly they have had an issue with another forum member and this was a push they needed to leave.
Does their SO think they spend too much time on here and it's an internal excuse to leave?
Did they cash out 18 months ago when BTC was at $20k and just don't care as much?

Could they appeal? yes.
Do they want to? possibly.
Will they because of external factors? perhaps not, or at least not now.

As I said, spamming & plagiarizing now. You're out of here. Once it's over 1500 days old and has not been done since? Temp ban with stern warning or something.

Just my view, take it as you will.

-Dave

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May 15, 2019, 05:27:04 PM
 #47

Right now the Internet is under attack, and I think Theymos is taking some very reasonable precautions to avoid falling foul of the new restrictive laws that are being imposed by some countries. It is especially relevant for a Bitcoin community - many of the lawmakers seem to think they should be silenced.

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May 15, 2019, 11:55:59 PM
 #48

Right now the Internet is under attack, and I think Theymos is taking some very reasonable precautions to avoid falling foul of the new restrictive laws that are being imposed by some countries. It is especially relevant for a Bitcoin community - many of the lawmakers seem to think they should be silenced.
Restricting less than 3 posts per day (with accepted timegaps betweenn posts is 8 hours) to help to slow down lives of bitcointalkers is not a bad thing, especially during those hottest day in both crypto (due to the Spring-return) and in the forum (due to Perma-Bans, Ban Appeals, and thousands of woke-up accounts). It might play important role to slow down the pace of FUDs and scams spreading around by scammers, whom woke up recently or become more actively during recent days.
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May 16, 2019, 03:34:20 AM
 #49

I see good posters being permabanned because of this, while the actual scammers/super spammers are all over the place.

The main reason this doesn't make sense is that someone with an established Hero+ account that did something wrong years ago is NOT going to risk doing anything stupid ever again and has probably learned enough stuff to produce decent posts. Banning old members from stuff done years ago is an obvious net loss. Someone that was bright enough to come here years ago when bitcoin wasn't mainstream has learned and probably has good things to offer. Everyone coming in now are just jumping on the bandwaggon.
I wouldn't even bother with signature permabans. Who cares if they are producing good content? just ban the people that are cluttering the forum with nonsense, as readers we don't give a toss if someone copy-pasted two lines 3 years ago when they were noobs if they have been doing it right since then.
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