Bitcoin Forum
May 21, 2019, 12:04:35 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 0.18.0 [Torrent] (New!)
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: [1] 2 »  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Bitcoin HAS intrinsic value. Easy explanation.  (Read 200 times)
DrBitcoin
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 278
Merit: 255


View Profile
May 15, 2019, 01:40:52 PM
Merited by BrewMaster (1)
 #1

I’ve been in this space since 2014, and the common criticism of Bitcoin is that unlike gold it has no intrinsic value.  I always found this hard to respond to, usually saying things like “they just don’t get it,” etc.

But it finally dawned on me. And the best analogy I can think of is as follows:

Bitcoin is like a brick.
To build a house, you need bricks, and bricks cost money.
To build/utilize the bitcoin network, you need bitcoin (or the bricks of the network).
The more scarce the bricks are, the more they cost.
The greater the network effect, the more demand there is for bricks.

Nothing demonstrated this more than Ethereum during the ICO craze.
ICOs were built on Ether. Ether was the brick.
To participate in ICOs, you needed to buy Ether.
Ether became scarce, and thus the brick became more expensive.
ICOs died, and the bricks became less valuable.

This is the best analogy I can come up with.

18ddkpxg3oQHr1NHmNNbpYzyvAeXxst2dH
1558397075
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1558397075

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1558397075
Reply with quote  #2

1558397075
Report to moderator
1558397075
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1558397075

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1558397075
Reply with quote  #2

1558397075
Report to moderator
1558397075
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1558397075

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1558397075
Reply with quote  #2

1558397075
Report to moderator
BITDEER BTC/BCH ETH LTC ZEC DASH START MINING BTC NOW
WITH NEW GENERATION S17 ANTMINER!
Highly Reduced Electricity Fee $0.067/T/DAY! GET STARTED
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
pushups44
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 602
Merit: 256


Free Crypto in Stake.com Telegram t.me/StakeCasino


View Profile
May 15, 2019, 02:44:29 PM
 #2

I’ve been in this space since 2014, and the common criticism of Bitcoin is that unlike gold it has no intrinsic value.  I always found this hard to respond to, usually saying things like “they just don’t get it,” etc.

But it finally dawned on me. And the best analogy I can think of is as follows:

Bitcoin is like a brick.
To build a house, you need bricks, and bricks cost money.
To build/utilize the bitcoin network, you need bitcoin (or the bricks of the network).
The more scarce the bricks are, the more they cost.
The greater the network effect, the more demand there is for bricks.

Nothing demonstrated this more than Ethereum during the ICO craze.
ICOs were built on Ether. Ether was the brick.
To participate in ICOs, you needed to buy Ether.
Ether became scarce, and thus the brick became more expensive.
ICOs died, and the bricks became less valuable.

This is the best analogy I can come up with.

Bitcoin has intrinsic value because of the infrastructure needed to support it and that will continue to exist: massive numbers of ASICs, buildings, employees, land, etc. The best developers in the world are working on bitcoin and its layer 2 solutions. Additionally, bitcoin is a mathematically-derived priotocol with built-in scarcity.

TimeBits
Member
**
Online Online

Activity: 140
Merit: 19


View Profile WWW
May 15, 2019, 02:46:37 PM
Last edit: May 16, 2019, 03:16:05 AM by TimeBits
 #3

^ opposite of real intrinsic value or physical value, it actually is wasting intrinsic/physical value atm.

When people say intrinsic value, they mean actual physical value. Gold has a physical use, actually in the future gold is going to cost a lot more than it does today, it actually will be worth man than bitcoin even tho I am a bitcoin lover, not because the price will be higher, but because in the future we will be a resource biased economy, we will need to be one, it is the only way that we can do proper calculations so we do not get check mated (stuck) onto a planet or stuck in a solar system.

We will need every gram of gold to get to deep space. By then Bitcoin will be replaced by time if we still need a currency and have not figured out that it is a team game we are suppose to be playing. Sorry bitcoin has no physical value, sure you can print it onto something and make it physical but that actually makes more waste that is not needed and is the opposite of physical value or intrinsic value as people like to say.

I cannot build a house with bitcoins, I can with bricks.
I cannot build a rocket or computers with bitcoin, I can with gold.

It`s physical value, if we measure time/duration towards it not fiat , it will be able to stop the $lavery system we have atm, people have physical value and can produce more physical things of value (like food). Actually that physical people value is what keeps everyone alive today, producers. (farmers mostly)
As for now it is the bankers and politicians back door.

The people will catch on, I look forward to it.



Bitcoin will be worth more than gold for about 100 years, Bitcoin will die, Gold will not become the money supply, We won`t need one anymore. We will only need to figure out how much resources we need to get to the next world, and if we do need one, it will be time, But I have faith in my species to understand in 100 years, that we are on a team. We will figure out what causes the greed gene and destroy it in the future.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQQYbKT_rMg take it from star trek

All the planets are headed towards the core, not just the planets the galaxies. We will have to achieve going faster than light speed in order to not go through the core. Sure we can go away from the core not at light speed and reach other universes, But in order to dodge the wormhole everything is headed to, we will have to achieve speeds that may even be faster than light speed. No one has a real clue how fast everything is going towards this core.
Lumi3004
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 406
Merit: 2


View Profile
May 15, 2019, 03:04:31 PM
 #4

Actually, everything in the form of investment requires cost / capital to achieve it in the next stage, bitcoin needs capital, gold is the same but there are differences.
Bitcoin, speculation with graphics, analysis in trading in assessing prices to go down and up.
Gold, depending on the real market or called real material.

xCRYPT ➲➲➲IEO-SALE On IDAX Exchange (https://www.xcrypt.club/)
Ailmand
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 952
Merit: 500


Free Crypto in Stake.com Telegram t.me/StakeCasino


View Profile
May 15, 2019, 03:09:59 PM
 #5

People would never support Bitcoin if it doesn't have an intrinsic value. Bitcoin's volatility is what makes them think that it doesn't have a real value. As for me, we can't compare Bitcoin with gold when it comes to value because bitcoin is a digital currency and it's characterized as volatile and unlike gold, it doesn't have a physical value because it's digital unless we convert it to fiat.

CryptoBry
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 756
Merit: 279


Free Crypto in Stake.com Telegram t.me/StakeCasino


View Profile
May 15, 2019, 04:14:28 PM
 #6



Bitcoin's intrinsic value will always be debated as we are living in a very diverse society where it would be hard to make everybody agree on definition of value. So what can be valuable to me may be worthless to you. In fact, over time what can be valuable yesterday can mean nothing today and yet there is a possibility that can go back and be valuable tomorrow. So does it mean that the intrinsic value of Bitcoin can also be shifting? Well, that can be possible. The thing is that Bitcoin lovers and users do believe that it has a value of its own otherwise they are not gonna be riding the Bitcoin bandwagon. So what can judge the intrinsic value of Bitcoin then? I think we have to leave that to the market.

XinXan
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 1036
Merit: 505


Free Crypto in Stake.com Telegram t.me/StakeCasino


View Profile
May 15, 2019, 04:33:55 PM
 #7

By definition it doesn't. What you said about Ethereum is true, however, Ethereum could stop existing at any point or have some weird vulnerability, etc etc and would stop existing and disappear forever, hence no intrinsic value. Gold cannot ever go down to 0$ because someone somewhere will always be buying it, even if it's just at 1$ and it's not only because it has various uses in real life but also because it's a physical object and will exist almost forever.

BrewMaster
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 1176
Merit: 738


There is trouble abrewing


View Profile
May 15, 2019, 04:47:29 PM
 #8

it will all come down to the usefulness of bitcoin. when it has usages, then it has value. bitcoin is a decentralized money that nobody can control, censor or reverse. it has high security and provides the user with a good level of privacy. the financial sovereignty achieved by using bitcoin is more than enough intrinsic value for bitcoin.

i liked your brick analogy though.

smartbitcoininvestor
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 502
Merit: 254


View Profile WWW
May 15, 2019, 06:35:12 PM
 #9

Bitcoin has intrinsic value for people all over the world. Getting started with a wallet is simple and obtaining digital money to use and send to anyone around the world is extremely intuitive. Bitcoin has value for those who want to perform cross border payments and/or hold a dependable store of value that is not dollars akin to gold.

Haunebu
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 1232
Merit: 534


Free Crypto in Stake.com Telegram t.me/StakeCasino


View Profile
May 15, 2019, 06:46:12 PM
 #10

By definition it doesn't. What you said about Ethereum is true, however, Ethereum could stop existing at any point or have some weird vulnerability, etc etc and would stop existing and disappear forever, hence no intrinsic value. Gold cannot ever go down to 0$ because someone somewhere will always be buying it, even if it's just at 1$ and it's not only because it has various uses in real life but also because it's a physical object and will exist almost forever.
If ETH disappears as you stated, some other cryptocurrency will take its place. Just like gold, someone will always buy crypto no matter what due to which it will always have intrinsic value.

BTC being a completely digital currency does not imply in any way that it does not have any intrinsic value whatsoever.

okala
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 616
Merit: 104


Free Crypto in Stake.com Telegram t.me/StakeCasino


View Profile
May 15, 2019, 06:53:22 PM
 #11

I don't agree with you on this analogy because bitcoin is measured in bits which have no real value apart from the value on the exchange which is subject to the demands of bitcoin, and bitcoin as a digital currency is having high value against the other currencies on the world exchange market.

Genemind
Sr. Member
****
Online Online

Activity: 854
Merit: 253


Free Crypto in Stake.com Telegram t.me/StakeCasino


View Profile
May 15, 2019, 07:34:56 PM
 #12

Gold is a physical thing that's why it has a physical value.
Bitcoin is a digital currency and its value is based digitally as well. They have their own characteristics and we can't say that Bitcoin doesn't have an intrinsic value because it wouldn't go this far if it doesn't have its own value.

figmentofmyass
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 1106
Merit: 775



View Profile
May 15, 2019, 08:11:53 PM
Merited by Potato Chips (1)
 #13

I’ve been in this space since 2014, and the common criticism of Bitcoin is that unlike gold it has no intrinsic value.  I always found this hard to respond to, usually saying things like “they just don’t get it,” etc.

But it finally dawned on me. And the best analogy I can think of is as follows:

Bitcoin is like a brick.
To build a house, you need bricks, and bricks cost money.
To build/utilize the bitcoin network, you need bitcoin (or the bricks of the network).
The more scarce the bricks are, the more they cost.
The greater the network effect, the more demand there is for bricks.

Nothing demonstrated this more than Ethereum during the ICO craze.
ICOs were built on Ether. Ether was the brick.
To participate in ICOs, you needed to buy Ether.
Ether became scarce, and thus the brick became more expensive.
ICOs died, and the bricks became less valuable.

This is the best analogy I can come up with.

how does this amount to intrinsic value? we're still not discussing anything that's essential or inherent.

in the above example, if there is zero demand for bitcoin (to use its network) then all we're left with is a bunch of useless bricks. in fact, what we're left with is worse than bricks, because bricks actually have some inherent value---they can be picked up and used to build structures, fireplaces, etc. if there is zero demand for bitcoin, they are worth nothing because no one would be using the network.

bitcoin's value is derived from its network, not anything intrinsic. it's entirely dependent on the market's subjective valuation. it's not like gold which always has a base line of demand for use in industry and medicine. gold is not entirely dependent on use as money or SOV, which are network-dependent.

Ucy
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 854
Merit: 274


★Bitvest.io★ Play Plinko or Invest!


View Profile
May 15, 2019, 09:16:03 PM
 #14

Bitcoin is certainly more valuable than gold. It can do a lot of things gold cant do.

You tried with the brick analogy ... the only problem is that brick increasing in price would mean that:
1. Bricks become costly for  people to use.
2. Nobody would like the increase in price.
3. The number of people using and building with bricks will decrease.


Bitcoin increasing in price:

1. Bitcoin will still be affordable to anyone no matter the price.

2. Most bitcoin owners will like the price increase

3. The number of people using and building on bitcoin/crypto will increase.

You see why the brick analogy is not a perfect one?



BITVEST DICE
HAS BEEN RELEASED!


▄████████████████████▄
██████████████████████
██████████▀▀██████████
█████████░░░░█████████
██████████▄▄██████████
███████▀▀████▀▀███████
██████░░░░██░░░░██████
███████▄▄████▄▄███████
████▀▀████▀▀████▀▀████
███░░░░██░░░░██░░░░███
████▄▄████▄▄████▄▄████
██████████████████████
▀████████████████████▀
▄████████████████████▄
██████████████████████
█████▀▀█▀▀▀▀▀▀██▀▀████
█████░░░░░░░░░░░░░▄███
█████░░░░░░░░░░░░▄████
█████░░▄███▄░░░░██████
█████▄▄███▀░░░░▄██████
█████████░░░░░░███████
████████░░░░░░░███████
███████░░░░░░░░███████
███████▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄███████
██████████████████████
▀████████████████████▀
▄████████████████████▄
███████████████▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
███████████▀▀▄▄█░░░░░█
█████████▀░░█████░░░░█
███████▀░░░░░████▀░░░▀
██████░░░░░░░░▀▄▄█████
█████░▄░░░░░▄██████▀▀█
████░████▄░███████░░░░
███░█████░█████████░░█
███░░░▀█░██████████░░█
███░░░░░░████▀▀██▀░░░░
███░░░░░░███░░░░░░░░░░
▀██░▄▄▄▄░████▄▄██▄░░░░
▄████████████▀▀▀▀▀▀▀██▄
█████████████░█▀▀▀█░███
██████████▀▀░█▀░░░▀█░▀▀
███████▀░▄▄█░█░░░░░█░█▄
████▀░▄▄████░▀█░░░█▀░██
███░▄████▀▀░▄░▀█░█▀░▄░▀
█▀░███▀▀▀░░███░▀█▀░███░
▀░███▀░░░░░████▄░▄████░
░███▀░░░░░░░█████████░░
░███░░░░░░░░░███████░░░
███▀░██░░░░░░▀░▄▄▄░▀░░░
███░██████▄▄░▄█████▄░▄▄
▀██░████████░███████░█▀
▄████████████████████▄
████████▀▀░░░▀▀███████
███▀▀░░░░░▄▄▄░░░░▀▀▀██
██░▀▀▄▄░░░▀▀▀░░░▄▄▀▀██
██░▄▄░░▀▀▄▄░▄▄▀▀░░░░██
██░▀▀░░░░░░█░░░░░██░██
██░░░▄▄░░░░█░██░░░░░██
██░░░▀▀░░░░█░░░░░░░░██
██░░░░░▄▄░░█░░░░░██░██
██▄░░░░▀▀░░█░██░░░░░██
█████▄▄░░░░█░░░░▄▄████
█████████▄▄█▄▄████████
▀████████████████████▀




Rainbot
Daily Quests
Faucet
DrBitcoin
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 278
Merit: 255


View Profile
May 15, 2019, 10:39:50 PM
 #15

Bitcoin is certainly more valuable than gold. It can do a lot of things gold cant do.

You tried with the brick analogy ... the only problem is that brick increasing in price would mean that:
1. Bricks become costly for  people to use.
2. Nobody would like the increase in price.
3. The number of people using and building with bricks will decrease.


Bitcoin increasing in price:

1. Bitcoin will still be affordable to anyone no matter the price.

2. Most bitcoin owners will like the price increase

3. The number of people using and building on bitcoin/crypto will increase.

You see why the brick analogy is not a perfect one?

I tried. Oh well.

18ddkpxg3oQHr1NHmNNbpYzyvAeXxst2dH
TimeBits
Member
**
Online Online

Activity: 140
Merit: 19


View Profile WWW
May 16, 2019, 02:40:40 AM
 #16

^ opposite of real intrinsic value or physical value, it actually is wasting intrinsic/physical value atm.

When people say intrinsic value, they mean actual physical value. Gold has a physical use, actually in the future gold is going to cost a lot more than it does today, it actually will be worth man than bitcoin even tho I am a bitcoin lover, not because the price will be higher, but because in the future we will be a resource biased economy, we will need to be one, it is the only way that we can do proper calculations so we do not get check mated (stuck) onto a planet or stuck in a solar system.

We will need every gram of gold to get to deep space. By then Bitcoin will be replaced by time if we still need a currency and have not figured out that it is a team game we are suppose to be playing. Sorry bitcoin has no physical value, sure you can print it onto something and make it physical but that actually makes more waste that is not needed and is the opposite of physical value or intrinsic value as people like to say.

I cannot build a house with bitcoins, I can with bricks.
I cannot build a rocket or computers with bitcoin, I can with gold.

It`s physical value, if we measure time/duration towards it not fiat , it will be able to stop the $lavery system we have atm, people have physical value and can produce more physical things of value (like food). Actually that physical people value is what keeps everyone alive today, producers. (farmers mostly)
As for now it is the bankers and politicians back door.

The people will catch on, I look forward to it.



Bitcoin will be worth more than gold for about 100 years, Bitcoin will die, Gold will not become the money supply, We won`t need one anymore. We will only need to figure out how much resources we need to get to the next world, and if we do need one, it will be time, But I have faith in my species to understand in 100 years, that we are on a team. We will figure out what causes the greed gene and destroy it in the future.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQQYbKT_rMg take it from star trek

All the planets are headed towards the core, not just the planets the galaxies. We will have to achieve going faster than light speed in order to not go through the core. Sure we can go away from the core not at light speed and reach other universes, But in order to dodge the wormhole everything is headed to, we will have to achieve speeds that may even be faster than light speed. No one has a real clue how fast everything is going towards this core.

https://imgur.com/a/2foTHUY Imagine a invisible jet stream in space (like in water) the things the turtles ride in finding nemo
pooya87
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1638
Merit: 1644



View Profile
May 16, 2019, 02:49:46 AM
 #17

By definition it doesn't. What you said about Ethereum is true, however, Ethereum could stop existing at any point or have some weird vulnerability, etc etc and would stop existing and disappear forever, hence no intrinsic value. Gold cannot ever go down to 0$ because someone somewhere will always be buying it, even if it's just at 1$ and it's not only because it has various uses in real life but also because it's a physical object and will exist almost forever.

as much as i dislike ethereum but it also has intrinsic value. having the possibility of having a vulnerability doesn't change that. vulnerability can exist in anything else including bitcoin too. the problem with ethereum is that its value is a lot less than the current one and it will continue to decline because of its inflation.

TimeBits
Member
**
Online Online

Activity: 140
Merit: 19


View Profile WWW
May 16, 2019, 03:02:47 AM
Last edit: May 16, 2019, 03:16:39 AM by TimeBits
 #18


https://imgur.com/a/2foTHUY Imagine a invisible jet stream in space (like in water) the things the turtles ride in finding nemo

Planck length
In physics, the Planck length, denoted ℓ P, is a unit of length that is the distance light travels in one unit of Planck time. It is equal to 1.616229(38)×10−35 m. It is a base unit in the system of Planck units, developed by physicist Max Planck.
...
Planck length
imperial/US units   6.3631×10−34 in

so we know the shortest measurable distance, what is the longest measurable distance? it is the inverse of the equation there.

we observe 0000000000000000000000.1% of space atm.  
alina345
Jr. Member
*
Online Online

Activity: 112
Merit: 6

Hello =)


View Profile WWW
May 16, 2019, 03:44:19 AM
 #19

Bitcoin is a building block for the blockchain as a public form of money. Each Satoshi is digitally transferrable and can eventually be used in a society which has densely distributed their Bitcoins to the point which we need to start calling them Satoshis.
XinXan
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 1036
Merit: 505


Free Crypto in Stake.com Telegram t.me/StakeCasino


View Profile
May 16, 2019, 11:01:30 AM
 #20

By definition it doesn't. What you said about Ethereum is true, however, Ethereum could stop existing at any point or have some weird vulnerability, etc etc and would stop existing and disappear forever, hence no intrinsic value. Gold cannot ever go down to 0$ because someone somewhere will always be buying it, even if it's just at 1$ and it's not only because it has various uses in real life but also because it's a physical object and will exist almost forever.
If ETH disappears as you stated, some other cryptocurrency will take its place. Just like gold, someone will always buy crypto no matter what due to which it will always have intrinsic value.

BTC being a completely digital currency does not imply in any way that it does not have any intrinsic value whatsoever.

No it wouldn't, if ETH disappears people would quickly exit the crypto market because of the uncertainty created by it. It would mean any crypto can disappear at any time and no one would want to use them anymore, that's not intrinsic value at all.

Pages: [1] 2 »  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!