Mighty DTs - no manipulation LOL | Are you okay theymos?

[TECSHARE]

I was at 4 DT1 inclusions until just recently and am now down to just 1...  Hmmmmmm...

Yep, and Hhampuz had me included as of this morning, now suddenly I am excluded in spite of the fact I never said a word about Hhampuz during this whole blowout, which leads me to believe he is doing so because he has pressure being put on him from the "club of special people" he is so desperately trying to be a part of. I would have loved to hear his objections, but when I went to PM him about it, I found he had blocked me too like a coward in spite of our previous open line of amicable communication. I guess I will just have to take my discussion of it to the public then since he is to afraid to have a private conversation with people he found trustworthy as of a day ago.

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[BitcoinSupremo]

I think theymos should go back to cultivating a good (default) trust list.

I don’t think the current experiment is a success.

Not only this experiment is not a success but is a total failure, FAILURE with CAPITAL letters. 3-4 guys are commanding the forum, the ranking of the forum in Alexa is down and and the traffic is also down. I am not feeling strange about these stats, it will only deteriorate further and only because of the BIG flaws in the trust system.

Another fact I want to add is that these new 3-4 or a bit more persons are even damaging users who have been here for much longer than them and have a history of trading goods worth thousand of dollars and yet they don't decide anything but these new users do, how fucked up is that ?

[bones261]

Just checked new added distrusts from DT1 member to teegumes and bill gator and what a surprise



New added distrusts from DT1 for teegumes from :

Lauda
suchmoon
Hhampuz
owlcatz
nutilda
bones261



What a surprise these people who are talking the most about forgiveness trying to end that topic and gaslightning are the ones who kicked other DT members out.

I have already explained why I excluded teeGUMES in another thread. It is a principle that theymos included in a reply to me.

If they complain about amounts, tell them to complain to me. It's best if sources try to exhaust their source allocations, even if it means giving posts higher amounts than is typical. If you have 150 source merit and you only see 3 merit-worthy posts in a month, then I'd rather you over-give each of them 50 merit than let the merit expire. That way there are more people capable of sending merit, and the "merit economy" is less top-down.

If a DT member tags you for something stupid involving merit (ie. probably anything less than selling merit), then they're not going to be a DT member for much longer.

Aside from that, if people complain about whether things deserve merit at all, then that's something to perhaps think about, but if you conclude that they're wrong, then that's that. You don't need to stress about it or defend yourself constantly. It's conceivable that someday you and I will end up disagreeing too much about this stuff and I'll remove your source status, but it's really not a big deal.

I do not think it was right for teeGUMES to tag the merit givers to sound the alarm on Vod's behavior. Although teegumes has removed the red trust, I am not removing my exclusion, at this time. Quite frankly, my exclusion has nothing to do with the red trust he had left for Vod.

[teeGUMES]

-snip-

I do not think it was right for teeGUMES to tag the merit givers to sound the alarm on Vod's behavior. Although teegumes has removed the red trust, I am not removing my exclusion. Quite frankly, my exclusion has nothing to do with the red trust he had left for Vod.

This is fine I do not fault you for standing up for something you believe to be right. Many times throughout the countless threads here I have stated that had there been another way of achieving this same effect, I would have used it. If as a merit source you believe that one day in the future you think you'll throw some of your merit down on a public doxx to expend your source then our paths will probably cross again.

[xolxol]

-snip-

I do not think it was right for teeGUMES to tag the merit givers to sound the alarm on Vod's behavior. Although teegumes has removed the red trust, I am not removing my exclusion. Quite frankly, my exclusion has nothing to do with the red trust he had left for Vod.

This is fine I do not fault you for standing up for something you believe to be right. Many times throughout the countless threads here I have stated that had there been another way of achieving this same effect, I would have used it. If as a merit source you believe that one day in the future you think you'll throw some of your merit down on a public doxx to expend your source then our paths will probably cross again.

look at fucking suchmoon,he has given you red trust then changed it to neutral he doesnt want people to get tagged by giving merits but if the normal people abuses the merit system he wont allow, a total coward supporting an idiot colleague.I respect you teeGUMES more by his actions.

[Foxpup]

I excluded Rmcdermott927 not specifically for tagging Vod, but for his overly hysterical justification for it which makes me question his judgement in other cases, not just this one. I didn't exclude any of the others, at least not for this drama.

It's not CH.Get a brain and stop acting like an idiot

Stop protesting too much, then. If you wanted people to know it's you, you'd have used your main account.

[suchmoon]

look at fucking suchmoon,he has given you red trust then changed it to neutral he doesnt want people to get tagged by giving merits but if the normal people abuses the merit system he wont allow, a total coward supporting an idiot colleague.I respect you teeGUMES more by his actions.

I have never given red trust for teeGUMES. I have excluded him for reasons not directly related to Vod and explained multiple times, including by bones261 above. BTW teeGUMES is back in DT1 which is hopefully a net positive for the forum but my personal opinion is unchanged.

I guess it's too much to ask for excrement like you to get your facts straight so carry on.

[bones261]

-snip-

I do not think it was right for teeGUMES to tag the merit givers to sound the alarm on Vod's behavior. Although teegumes has removed the red trust, I am not removing my exclusion. Quite frankly, my exclusion has nothing to do with the red trust he had left for Vod.

This is fine I do not fault you for standing up for something you believe to be right. Many times throughout the countless threads here I have stated that had there been another way of achieving this same effect, I would have used it. If as a merit source you believe that one day in the future you think you'll throw some of your merit down on a public doxx to expend your source then our paths will probably cross again.

     Let's just hope for all the users that give out merit(merit sources and the general population alike) that other DT1 and DT2 members don't take your precedent and construe it to mean that perhaps they can go ahead and red trust meriters if they merit other types of posts that the DT member finds unsavory. Personally, I think red trust for merit should only be done for selling/buying merit or using it to rank up an account farm. All other complaints about merit should be brought up either by PM or the open forum, and if theymos feels it's abuse, he may reverse them and if it involves a merit source, give them the boot. However, to each their own, I guess.

[teeGUMES]

-snip-

I do not think it was right for teeGUMES to tag the merit givers to sound the alarm on Vod's behavior. Although teegumes has removed the red trust, I am not removing my exclusion. Quite frankly, my exclusion has nothing to do with the red trust he had left for Vod.

This is fine I do not fault you for standing up for something you believe to be right. Many times throughout the countless threads here I have stated that had there been another way of achieving this same effect, I would have used it. If as a merit source you believe that one day in the future you think you'll throw some of your merit down on a public doxx to expend your source then our paths will probably cross again.

     Let's just hope for all the users that give out merit(merit sources and the general population alike) that other DT1 and DT2 members don't take your precedent and construe it to mean that perhaps they can go ahead and red trust meriters if they merit other types of posts that the DT member finds unsavory. Personally, I think red trust for merit should only be done for selling/buying merit or using it to rank up an account farm. All other complaints about merit should be brought up either by PM or the open forum, and if theymos feels it's abuse, he may reverse them and if it involves a merit source, give them the boot. However, to each their own, I guess.

"I added to my notes the fact that those users merited such a post. Meriting it is saying basically that we need more posts like this on the forum, and we do not need more posts like this on the forum."

Most important thing you should have taken away from theymos' post. You think in his notes he put these users on the good boy/girl side of his list?
To each their own I guess.

[bones261]

     Let's just hope for all the users that give out merit(merit sources and the general population alike) that other DT1 and DT2 members don't take your precedent and construe it to mean that perhaps they can go ahead and red trust meriters if they merit other types of posts that the DT member finds unsavory. Personally, I think red trust for merit should only be done for selling/buying merit or using it to rank up an account farm. All other complaints about merit should be brought up either by PM or the open forum, and if theymos feels it's abuse, he may reverse them and if it involves a merit source, give them the boot. However, to each their own, I guess.

"I added to my notes the fact that those users merited such a post. Meriting it is saying basically that we need more posts like this on the forum, and we do not need more posts like this on the forum."

Most important thing you should have taken away from theymos' post. You think in his notes he put these users on the good boy/girl side of his list?
To each their own I guess.

     However, it appears that the only action theymos took in this case was making a mental note and to clarify what merit giving should be about. It appears Foxpup is still a merit source and the merits to Vod have not been reversed as of this moment. Therefore, I am going to go by the words that theymos wrote in response to me, months ago.

[teeGUMES]

     Let's just hope for all the users that give out merit(merit sources and the general population alike) that other DT1 and DT2 members don't take your precedent and construe it to mean that perhaps they can go ahead and red trust meriters if they merit other types of posts that the DT member finds unsavory. Personally, I think red trust for merit should only be done for selling/buying merit or using it to rank up an account farm. All other complaints about merit should be brought up either by PM or the open forum, and if theymos feels it's abuse, he may reverse them and if it involves a merit source, give them the boot. However, to each their own, I guess.

"I added to my notes the fact that those users merited such a post. Meriting it is saying basically that we need more posts like this on the forum, and we do not need more posts like this on the forum."

Most important thing you should have taken away from theymos' post. You think in his notes he put these users on the good boy/girl side of his list?
To each their own I guess.

     However, it appears that the only action theymos took in this case was making a mental note and to clarify what merit giving should be about. It appears Foxpup is still a merit source and the merits to Vod have not been reversed as of this moment. Therefore, I am going to go by the words that theymos wrote in response to me, months ago.

Hey bones261 no worries at all.. I definitely know who's side I'd take in these kinds of situations if I were you. Never wanna bite the hand that feeds you.


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5124985.msg50345864#msg50345864

[bones261]

Hey bones261 no worries at all.. I definitely know who's side I'd take in these kinds of situations if I were you. Never wanna bite the hand that feeds you.


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5124985.msg50345864#msg50345864

  I've already explained my main motivation, and have quoted theymos to justify it. If you really think that maintaining my income stream from the signature that I am wearing has anything to do with this, you must think I am really hard up. After all, I am not even posting anywhere near the maximum of 55 posts a week for this signature. Furthermore, I am certain that if HHampuz gave me the boot, there are plenty of other signature campaigns that I could easily join.
  

[suchmoon]

Most important thing you should have taken away from theymos' post. You think in his notes he put these users on the good boy/girl side of his list?
To each their own I guess.

Why do you care what's in his notes. Maybe he's got a 2-inch binder on each of us. Maybe he just said that to yank the chain.

I understand the need to look up to theymos for some guidance on trust/merit/etc but you guys are taking this into Maoism territory here by interpreting words that perhaps are just regular words without any hidden meaning. He's anarcho-libertarian or whatever, he wants us to use our judgement with as little supervision as possible but we're failing miserably so far.

[Lauda]

I was at 4 DT1 inclusions until just recently and am now down to just 1...  Hmmmmmm...

Which is quite generous given your behavior.

I've already explained my main motivation, and have quoted theymos to justify it. If you really think that maintaining my income stream from the signature that I am wearing has anything to do with this, you must think I am really hard up. After all, I am not even posting anywhere near the maximum of 55 posts a week for this signature. Furthermore, I am certain that if HHampuz gave me the boot, there are plenty of other signature campaigns that I could easily join.

That's the kind of people that you're up against. Anything will be used against you for not siding with them*. Mr. Snowfucker will not kick you out of the campaign regardless if you agree or disagree with him any matters. A quite cancerous group they are indeed.

[Foxpup]

It appears Foxpup is still a merit source and the merits to Vod have not been reversed as of this moment.

Correct. I (and other merit sources) don't always agree with theymos, but I don't believe he wants us to, either. The whole point of the merit system and DT voting is for the community to collectively decide for itself what actions are appropriate, without having to appoint theymos as our benevolent dictator. If theymos has to intervene for every little disagreement, the experiment is a failure.

[TECSHARE]

It appears Foxpup is still a merit source and the merits to Vod have not been reversed as of this moment.

Correct. I (and other merit sources) don't always agree with theymos, but I don't believe he wants us to, either. The whole point of the merit system and DT voting is for the community to collectively decide for itself what actions are appropriate, without having to appoint theymos as our benevolent dictator. If theymos has to intervene for every little disagreement, the experiment is a failure.

If that is the case it was a failure the moment he introduced exclusions.

[actisstupidname]

I think theymos should go back to cultivating a good (default) trust list.

I don’t think the current experiment is a success.

~I'm not going to do anything hasty or out of emotion with respect to my trust list until I can figure out what the hell is going on. 
~
I really don't like the state bitcointalk is in right now.

What a surprise these people who are talking the most about forgiveness trying to end that topic and gaslightning are the ones who kicked other DT members out.

Hhampuz had me included as of this morning, now suddenly I am excluded in spite of the fact I never said a word about Hhampuz during this whole blowout, which leads me to believe he is doing so because he has pressure being put on him from the "club of special people" he is so desperately trying to be a part of. I would have loved to hear his objections, but when I went to PM him about it, I found he had blocked me too like a coward in spite of our previous open line of amicable communication. I guess I will just have to take my discussion of it to the public then since he is to afraid to have a private conversation with people he found trustworthy as of a day ago.

Another fact I want to add is that these new 3-4 or a bit more persons are even damaging users who have been here for much longer than them and have a history of trading goods worth thousand of dollars and yet they don't decide anything but these new users do, how fucked up is that ?

The experiment is indeed a failure and intervention will only increase in the following months.

If theymos has to intervene for every little disagreement, the experiment is a failure.

Theymos should go back and pick his real friends as DT, people he interacts with regularly. It will reset the forum norms in line with their collective values and behavior.

[TheNewAnon135246]

I think theymos should go back to cultivating a good (default) trust list.

I don’t think the current experiment is a success.

~I'm not going to do anything hasty or out of emotion with respect to my trust list until I can figure out what the hell is going on. 
~
I really don't like the state bitcointalk is in right now.

What a surprise these people who are talking the most about forgiveness trying to end that topic and gaslightning are the ones who kicked other DT members out.

Hhampuz had me included as of this morning, now suddenly I am excluded in spite of the fact I never said a word about Hhampuz during this whole blowout, which leads me to believe he is doing so because he has pressure being put on him from the "club of special people" he is so desperately trying to be a part of. I would have loved to hear his objections, but when I went to PM him about it, I found he had blocked me too like a coward in spite of our previous open line of amicable communication. I guess I will just have to take my discussion of it to the public then since he is to afraid to have a private conversation with people he found trustworthy as of a day ago.

Another fact I want to add is that these new 3-4 or a bit more persons are even damaging users who have been here for much longer than them and have a history of trading goods worth thousand of dollars and yet they don't decide anything but these new users do, how fucked up is that ?

The experiment is indeed a failure and intervention will only increase in the following months.

If theymos has to intervene for every little disagreement, the experiment is a failure.

Theymos should go back and pick his real friends as DT, people he interacts with regularly. It will reset the forum norms in line with their collective values and behavior.

That sounds like a government to me, which is exactly what Theymos wants to avoid.

[BitcoinSupremo]

I think theymos should go back to cultivating a good (default) trust list.

I don’t think the current experiment is a success.

~I'm not going to do anything hasty or out of emotion with respect to my trust list until I can figure out what the hell is going on.  
~
I really don't like the state bitcointalk is in right now.

What a surprise these people who are talking the most about forgiveness trying to end that topic and gaslightning are the ones who kicked other DT members out.

Hhampuz had me included as of this morning, now suddenly I am excluded in spite of the fact I never said a word about Hhampuz during this whole blowout, which leads me to believe he is doing so because he has pressure being put on him from the "club of special people" he is so desperately trying to be a part of. I would have loved to hear his objections, but when I went to PM him about it, I found he had blocked me too like a coward in spite of our previous open line of amicable communication. I guess I will just have to take my discussion of it to the public then since he is to afraid to have a private conversation with people he found trustworthy as of a day ago.

Another fact I want to add is that these new 3-4 or a bit more persons are even damaging users who have been here for much longer than them and have a history of trading goods worth thousand of dollars and yet they don't decide anything but these new users do, how fucked up is that ?

The experiment is indeed a failure and intervention will only increase in the following months.

If theymos has to intervene for every little disagreement, the experiment is a failure.

Theymos should go back and pick his real friends as DT, people he interacts with regularly. It will reset the forum norms in line with their collective values and behavior.

That sounds like a government to me, which is exactly what Theymos wants to avoid.

Your statement is very funny, what do you think the actual DT is ? You think is not a government because everybody here I think agrees with me that DT is a government.

Few users dictate what will happen to one person account, while they maybe right in their decision lot of times they are in a lot more others wrong so in the end it isn't working as a system.

[LoyceV]

Anyway, I am interested to see LoyceV's http://loyce.club/trust project's next update for the following users:

teeGUMES: http://loyce.club/trust/2019-05-11_Sat_05.45h/307884.html | http://archive.is/yg3SS
OgNasty: http://loyce.club/trust/2019-05-11_Sat_05.45h/18321.html | http://archive.is/CKqZ0
Rmcdermott927: http://loyce.club/trust/2019-05-11_Sat_05.45h/289011.html | http://archive.is/Lor9U
bill gator: http://loyce.club/trust/2019-05-11_Sat_05.45h/370611.html | http://archive.is/ySv1A

Here you go:
teeGUMES (Trust: 103: -0 / +11) (DT1! (0) 285 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
OgNasty (Trust: 21: -6 / +64) (DT1 (-2) 664 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
Rmcdermott927 (Trust: 201: -0 / +21) (37 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
bill gator (Trust: 0: -1 / +14) (DT1! (0) 510 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)