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Author Topic: Any managers lost good posters due recent mass ban?  (Read 979 times)
SuperPandaBear
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May 16, 2019, 08:06:49 PM
 #1

I have lost good Hero and Legendary posters on my list because they copypasted something years ago and it seems they cannot join again for a year. Now im having a hard time picking up experienced posters. Most Legendaries aren't even that active anymore since they are probably rich from bitcoin. They are the ones that have been here through all the hard forks and know how things work. This has been a mistake. If it happened more than 1 or 2 years ago and it wasn't much I wouldn't kick them out of the campaign if they were doing a good job. It should be the managers doing the casting and evaluating case by case. It feels like the state is telling me who I can hire or not.
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May 16, 2019, 08:26:15 PM
 #2

The thing is there were a lot of bounty managers not doing this. It does seem like it might be helpful if a given deadline was added for bans such as this. There are a lot of legendary members that have been suggest to be given much more lenient "sentensing" than the perma ban. But the point still stands if an offence was committed in 2014, they clearly got away with it...

I get that not everyone had the embarrisment of plagiarising that wikipedia page that you couldn't be bothered writing for history so the teacher made you read the first five pages of the 500 page novel you brought in on the lusitania...

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May 16, 2019, 08:31:56 PM
 #3

By taking a look at all those ban appeal threads, it is obvious that many good membres got banned.
I am sure you can find other good posters, just give a chance to lower ranked membres and you will be amazed by the quality of their posts.

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May 17, 2019, 12:19:07 AM
Merited by Foxpup (3), Hhampuz (3)
 #4

just give a chance to lower ranked membres and you will be amazed by the quality of their posts.
Yeah, I'm not sure about that.  Plus from a campaign's point of view, they get less advertising space with a lower-ranked account--that's obviously why they pay Heros and Legendaries a higher rate.

The recent purge was brutal, but it was appropriate and sends a very strong message that plagiarism is not tolerated here.  Obviously a lot of members don't seem to understand that fact, but they probably will now.  And as far as campaigns not having enough good posters as a result of the bans....who cares?  Bitcointalk isn't an employment agency, and the opportunity to be able to earn money from posting is a privilege, and one that gets taken for granted and abused to no end.  It's not Theymos's problem if a bunch of members suddenly got booted from their campaigns.

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May 17, 2019, 01:07:20 AM
 #5

It feels like the state is telling me who I can hire or not.

You can't hire people who break forum rules. That's hardly over-restrictive.

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May 17, 2019, 01:09:25 AM
 #6

I have lost good Hero and Legendary posters on my list because they copypasted something years ago and it seems they cannot join again for a year. Now im having a hard time picking up experienced posters. Most Legendaries aren't even that active anymore since they are probably rich from bitcoin. They are the ones that have been here through all the hard forks and know how things work. This has been a mistake. If it happened more than 1 or 2 years ago and it wasn't much I wouldn't kick them out of the campaign if they were doing a good job. It should be the managers doing the casting and evaluating case by case. It feels like the state is telling me who I can hire or not.

The one problem this merit system has sprawled up is this distinction between heroes and legendaries. when first campaigns were categorizing according to rank, remember there was no distinction between a hero and legendary. Simply because their signature spaces do not differ from each other in terms of the benefit they give.

So all this bullshit about segragating hero pay vs legendary pay is a ploy by campaign managers and campaign runners (projects) to pay less for the same service. Anyone arguing that a legendary brings more prestige or reputation to the post, then they can stop right there and kiss my ass.

 
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May 17, 2019, 01:36:42 AM
Merited by DarkStar_ (1), hilariousetc (1)
 #7

It feels like the state is telling me who I can hire or not.
The state isn't telling you anything of the sort; it's just jailing your employees for committing crimes. You can technically still employ criminals if you want, as long as you don't mind them not showing up for work on account of being stuck in jail.

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May 17, 2019, 02:00:25 AM
 #8

In your perspective as a campaign manager, it is hard for you since you really lost a good posters in your campaign but in the perspective of the admins and moderators, they don't care even you are a good poster or not as long as you break the rules they will do what they must do and that is to ban you.

Bitcointalk is not a place for employees as others said. This is a place to learn. There are many hero and legendary users here who didn't do any bad things here such as copy pasting and plagiarize. Why don't you hire them? Its better to hire user who don't break the rules compare to those who does.

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May 17, 2019, 10:28:17 AM
 #9

The recent purge was brutal, but it was appropriate and sends a very strong message that plagiarism is not tolerated here.  
Agreed.
Yeah, I'm not sure about that.  Plus from a campaign's point of view, they get less advertising space with a lower-ranked account--that's obviously why they pay Heros and Legendaries a higher rate.
ChipMixer campaign even has not opened up a single new slot with ban of cellard. If campaigns expand original ranks from Legendary to Senior member ranks (for example) to lower ranks, like Full member or even Member ranks, there might occur another new trend.
Character assasination aims at higher ranks to dig deeply in the past in order to find their mistakes and report them. Everyone can make mistakes when we are newbies, so if they dig deeply, they might find some. To be honest with you all, I don't think it should be a trend at any odds.
For everyone hoping to get cellard's spot: There will not be a new slot opened up as a result of his ban.

By the way, I would like to ask this, so please give me answer if you know it.
It raise the ideas that why old users here don't spend their time to check their past posts. I meant I am sure that there are dominant part of forum users did not read forum rules in their trust days there, and of course they did something wrong that they did not even know that they violated forum rules and might get troubles by doing this. So, why not check past posts and delete what you think are shitposts, or not sure why and how you made that post; I believe no one can remember their past posts are palgiarisms or not (that partially why we see ban appeals ask for evidence), so it's better to delete if you think it is poor quality posts.

Only one question, which kind of treatments if one user delete their past posts that are palgiarism, before get reported (it means users realized their mistakes themselves, and correct their mistakes)?
1] Will it actually be considered as plagiarism with same treatments, perma-bans?
2] Will they be fine if they delete their past plagiarism before getting reported?
I think the answer is the second one.
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May 17, 2019, 10:35:54 AM
 #10

With some exceptions, I am pretty sure that a plagiarists are not useful for the forum.
And they can't considered good posters. I can't see any valid reason to maintain these users.
I don't want read the same content two times Cheesy

Look this as e.g.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3366313.msg38711853#msg38711853

yes yobit set an high price for promising coin/token. this is explained then by a medium price higher then other exchange for same pair.for coins with a low interest they add very low commission (or you can't withdraw at all!). sometimes is a serious issue because you're a forced to sell your coins to a fake price.
exchange tron in waves (little fee) or doge and withdraw directly to another exchange and buy tron.
you loss a small percentage of your wealth but you save 300 trx fee.

indeed yobit set a high cost for promising coin/token. this is clarified then by a medium cost higher then other trade for same pair.for coins with a low intrigue they include low commission (or you can't pull back by any stretch of the imagination!). some of the time is a significant issue since you're a compelled to pitch your coins to a phony cost.
trade tron in waves (little charge) or doge and pull back straightforwardly to another trade and purchase tron.
you misfortune a little level of your riches yet you spare 300 trx expense.
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May 17, 2019, 12:10:30 PM
 #11

I have lost good Hero and Legendary posters on my list because they copypasted something years ago and it seems they cannot join again for a year. Now im having a hard time picking up experienced posters. Most Legendaries aren't even that active anymore since they are probably rich from bitcoin. They are the ones that have been here through all the hard forks and know how things work. This has been a mistake. If it happened more than 1 or 2 years ago and it wasn't much I wouldn't kick them out of the campaign if they were doing a good job. It should be the managers doing the casting and evaluating case by case. It feels like the state is telling me who I can hire or not.
If we think rationally, there are thousands of legendaries and hero's over here. I do believe that most of them are in-active but there also are some who are giving their best and contributing towards the growth of this forum. You might always have much better and wise choices who can meet your requirements.

The one's who are banned deserves that not because of their current behavior but due to silly mistakes made by them in the past. Copy-paste is never tolerated on the forum and it always ends up in getting permanently banned.

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May 17, 2019, 12:49:25 PM
 #12

It feels like the state is telling me who I can hire or not.
The state isn't telling you anything of the sort; it's just jailing your employees for committing crimes. You can technically still employ criminals if you want, as long as you don't mind them not showing up for work on account of being stuck in jail.

Or they also can increase his payment rate and motivate people to join in his campaigns. It is a free market.

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May 17, 2019, 01:34:51 PM
Merited by Foxpup (3), Mr. Big (2)
 #13

I have lost good Hero and Legendary posters on my list

What list is this and can we see it?

It should be the managers doing the casting and evaluating case by case.



That's a funny joke. Do you have any more? Have you had accounts banned personally? You only seem to pop up to complain about sig bans  Roll Eyes. The problem here for a long time has been campaign managers aren't doing their job properly if at all and hence why we have such a huge problem with spam in the first place. If every campaign manager here did an exemplary job then we would have little issue with spam in the first place.

It feels like the state is telling me who I can hire or not.

Sorry, which campaign manager are you again? If you feel like certain people are worthy of hiring then hire them for something else. Plenty of job opportunities here other than merely posting. Honestly, I'm not sure what we can do here because we're damned if we do and we're damned if we don't. We changed the rule to give people a second chance and people are still complaining. Maybe if the people who have sig bans stick around and contribute actively and continue to receive merit then we can consider reducing the sig ban, but the fact that we've even started giving people second chances should be applauded because prior to this it was a death sentence for life. We accepted that was harsh in certain cases and have relaxed the rule. I really wish people just weren't so lazy and entitled that they decided to copy and paste in the first place and then none of this would need to have happened in the first place. People should see signature campaigns as the blessing that they are because there's going to be a whole lot of people who miss them if we ever ban signature campaigns outright and that's certainly always an option and one theymos has considered.

By the way, I would like to ask this, so please give me answer if you know it.
It raise the ideas that why old users here don't spend their time to check their past posts.

I'm sure there are many users who have gone through their post history and deleted most or even all of their plagiarised content. I've seen people admit they've deleted their unsubstantial posts before. It would be quite a job to remember or find every single post they copied so I'm sure they'd miss some, especially if they've got thousands of posts. The bots that are running now are less forgetful though.

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May 17, 2019, 02:13:13 PM
 #14

Now im having a hard time picking up experienced posters.

In your post history , I am not able to find which bounty campaign you are managing. 
But still I do not think we have lost many good members but few good members and I hope they will be unbanned soon.

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May 17, 2019, 02:22:14 PM
 #15

For one there are still a lot of members eligible for campaigns. I'm not sure on the numbers but this cleaning house might be beneficial to all those who didn't break the rules. There are now more spots available for campaigns, maybe now instead of the "quickest to apply for a job"  there will be a longer application period and higher quality - I'd love to have no Sig spam to report but doubt it will get there.

I have no idea how managers earn their wage, but if it has anything to do with just making sure you've filled the spots then that was the issue; not users being banned. So it just means put in some effort and find quality participants. If you think there aren't enough raise the payment to attract members... you now like competition in the market.

ChipMixer campaign even has not opened up a single new slot with ban of cellard. If campaigns expand original ranks from Legendary to Senior member ranks (for example) to lower ranks, like Full member or even Member ranks, there might occur another new trend.
Character assasination aims at higher ranks to dig deeply in the past in order to find their mistakes and report them. Everyone can make mistakes when we are newbies, so if they dig deeply, they might find some. To be honest with you all, I don't think it should be a trend at any odds.

The CM campaign is already over capacity, and has been for a while as they expanded the list to allow for some special applications overtime. They are also a bad example to compare other campaigns with, they are the longest running I believe and most weeks out of the year the highest paying, hence the rank requirements - which earn a flat rate regardless of actual rank.

Most other campaigns do accept as low as member, it's been a while since I've checked. A lot of those campaigns though being poorly managed were bringing these plagiarists and spammers here to earn. Not saying we shouldn't allow lower ranks in but managers need to be more diligent. Like "hilarious" mentions theymos has mentioned "Sigs" could disappear one day, theymos has stated he finds them distasteful. So it's a case of people need to be doing their part to not abuse a system, and ensure we try and ensure the quality of the forum, without forcing Admins to step in with sweeping policy changes.

Sorry, which campaign manager are you again? If you feel like certain people are worthy of hiring then hire them for something else. Plenty of job opportunities here other than merely posting. Honestly, I'm not sure what we can do here because we're damned if we do and we're damned if we don't. We changed the rule to give people a second chance and people are still complaining. Maybe if the people who have sig bans stick around and contribute actively and continue to receive merit then we can consider reducing the sig ban, but the fact that we've even started giving people second chances should be applauded because prior to this it was a death sentence for life. We accepted that was harsh in certain cases and have relaxed the rule. I really wish people just weren't so lazy and entitled that they decided to copy and paste in the first place and then none of this would need to have happened in the first place. People should see signature campaigns as the blessing that they are because there's going to be a whole lot of people who miss them if we ever ban signature campaigns outright and that's certainly always an option and one theymos has considered.

I don't think most people have an issue with this. I'd argue most of the members who receive the reduced punishment, will happily accept this. I'm interested to see how many people do continue to post and remain active, even if it's at a reduced rate, these are the people I want to see stick around. Like you said this was a huge step forward in having a sliding scale of appropriate punishment, what are the odds any of these members would be here at all if they hadn't flown under the radar a few years back.

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May 17, 2019, 04:07:32 PM
 #16

I hope this brings home to members that "a sig is for life, and not just for Christmas".

Now that the forum is becoming a cleaner and healthier place, lets all work together to attract some new healthy blood, and also perhaps we can persuade some of the former members to return and contribute to some of the discussions.

I've added a photography section to Fit to Talk -  The photography and content production board

Hopefully we can use this to help members earn from using budget photo kit whilst they practice their English
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May 17, 2019, 04:20:00 PM
 #17

Sorry, which campaign manager are you again? If you feel like certain people are worthy of hiring then hire them for something else. Plenty of job opportunities here other than merely posting. Honestly, I'm not sure what we can do here because we're damned if we do and we're damned if we don't. We changed the rule to give people a second chance and people are still complaining. Maybe if the people who have sig bans stick around and contribute actively and continue to receive merit then we can consider reducing the sig ban, but the fact that we've even started giving people second chances should be applauded because prior to this it was a death sentence for life. We accepted that was harsh in certain cases and have relaxed the rule. I really wish people just weren't so lazy and entitled that they decided to copy and paste in the first place and then none of this would need to have happened in the first place. People should see signature campaigns as the blessing that they are because there's going to be a whole lot of people who miss them if we ever ban signature campaigns outright and that's certainly always an option and one theymos has considered.

I don't think most people have an issue with this. I'd argue most of the members who receive the reduced punishment, will happily accept this. I'm interested to see how many people do continue to post and remain active, even if it's at a reduced rate, these are the people I want to see stick around. Like you said this was a huge step forward in having a sliding scale of appropriate punishment, what are the odds any of these members would be here at all if they hadn't flown under the radar a few years back.

People will still complain. Seen a couple already (or alts/friends of users). They may have had the death sentence overturned but they've still got a year or two in jail and that's going to be a loss of earnings for a year as well which will be the only motivation many people who get caught plagiarising are here for. Many will still be happy to have access to their accounts but for the vast majority of people they're probably only here to earn so it's as good as or at least for the duration of their ban. I can't see many people who get a ban sticking around and posting much when they can't monetise doing so. Maybe a few posts here and there to collect activity and keep the account ticking over but more often than not I'd bet most accounts will become very inactive unless they have other business here.

Now im having a hard time picking up experienced posters.

In your post history , I am not able to find which bounty campaign you are managing. 
But still I do not think we have lost many good members but few good members and I hope they will be unbanned soon.

I doubt he is one. I'd say it's more likely he's had an account banned previously. There's definitely no shortage of decent posters to choose from but looks like this is the excuse he's going to run with rather than the truth of what really is bothering him.

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May 17, 2019, 04:28:50 PM
 #18

I can't see many people who get a ban sticking around and posting much when they can't monetise doing so. Maybe a few posts here and there to collect activity and keep the account ticking over but more often than not I'd bet most accounts will become very inactive unless they have other business here.
There are always exceptions, like @redsn0w, whom likely the first one get alternative ban rather than permanent ban. Redsn0w maybe the first one changed theymos' thoughts on permanent bans. However, I agreed that such cases are very scarce.
His identity (name-surname) was well know or am I wrong?


@Otoh great, i send it to you as requested so posting it here doesn't matter, it's already in the OP.
Do you mind removing my email from your post ?

sure np





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May 17, 2019, 04:40:21 PM
 #19

Many good poster got lesser penalty due to their contribution on this forum,but its surprising for me that even good posters were did copy paste few years back. Huh

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May 17, 2019, 06:35:33 PM
Last edit: May 17, 2019, 07:12:28 PM by finaleshot2016
 #20

Many good poster got lesser penalty due to their contribution on this forum,but its surprising for me that even good posters were did copy paste few years back. Huh

I can say that not of all members are good at the beginning, people are just trying to make an easy way to rank up. Way back those years, ranking up is a really big thing, people rushin' their posts to have at least 14 activities per 2 weeks.

For me, it's just a mistake, they should verify when does the plagiarism happen. Those legendaries and heroes are already contributed a lot of threads that might help the future generation of this community. They will be forgotten forever because of a single mistake that happened at the beginning of your journey. Well, if that's the decision of the higher-ups, we can't do anything but follow and be a responsible member of this community.

and also perhaps we can persuade some of the former members to return and contribute to some of the discussions.

Agree, this community has a lot of topics/discussion that might help our community. I think they will come back without persuading them here just for discussions. They know themselves the benefit of this forum and I know they needed it. Even I will do the same, this forum is already a part of my life, there's is something missing if I didn't visit this forum daily.


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May 17, 2019, 07:25:19 PM
 #21

People will still complain. Seen a couple already (or alts/friends of users). They may have had the death sentence overturned but they've still got a year or two in jail and that's going to be a loss of earnings for a year as well which will be the only motivation many people who get caught plagiarising are here for. Many will still be happy to have access to their accounts but for the vast majority of people they're probably only here to earn so it's as good as or at least for the duration of their ban. I can't see many people who get a ban sticking around and posting much when they can't monetise doing so. Maybe a few posts here and there to collect activity and keep the account ticking over but more often than not I'd bet most accounts will become very inactive unless they have other business here.

Mind boggling but I've seen similar tantrums thrown in real life, generally resulting in a harsher penalty. Unfortunately I agree with you, and the ones who are here solely for the earnings will probably be back under some guise whether their account is jailed or dead. I am hoping that in the same way Cryptios is handling accounts they may catch a few ban evasions while their at it (I have no idea how difficult this would be). Sad fact is that a lot of these accounts might change hands over the next 2 years because they can be sold as "broken with potential to earn". I try to focus more on the brightspots though, that have received leniency and are back like nothing happened (minus signature) contributing to the community.
For me, it's just a mistake, they should verify when does the plagiarism happen. Those legendaries and heroes are already contributed a lot of threads that might help the future generation of this community. They will be forgotten forever because of a single mistake that happened at the beginning of your journey. Well, if that's the decision of the higher-ups, we can't do anything but follow and be a responsible member of this community.

That's what is happening. I believe at least one user received their temp ban and signature ban instantly as opposed to having to appeal. Then if you check around you can see users receiving their sentences reduced after review. It's actually working out rather well from what I can see.


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May 17, 2019, 08:32:26 PM
 #22

Interesting. By the logic proposed here, known old alt accounts should get a red tag too since "the early days are different" reason is not acceptable.
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May 18, 2019, 02:30:03 AM
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I saw some good posters that are unban, they are still good posters even without signature.
This is a kind action by the mods in the forum, and with the number of members here in the forum, I don't think campaign managers will not be able to find good posters. People change, there are people that are shit posters and become decent posters, and vice versa.

For me, I don't see this a major problem of the campaign manager as they can hire limited participants with increase number of post.

 
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May 18, 2019, 08:14:34 AM
 #24

Then if you check around you can see users receiving their sentences reduced after review. It's actually working out rather well from what I can see.
Then, now they (unbanned users) started to ask for reduce sentences of their signature bans. It is a basic greedy instinct of human. We might see a new wave of suggestion topics on reduction of signature ban period. Tongue




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May 18, 2019, 09:50:56 AM
 #25

Then if you check around you can see users receiving their sentences reduced after review. It's actually working out rather well from what I can see.
Then, now they (unbanned users) started to ask for reduce sentences of their signature bans. It is a basic greedy instinct of human. We might see a new wave of suggestion topics on reduction of signature ban period. Tongue

I think at the very least state the reason why the account has been banned?  I always see posts asking why their old account has been banned from the forum (hence I assume that no one will state the reason of banning your account the moment you are banned?)

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May 18, 2019, 01:38:52 PM
 #26

Interesting. By the logic proposed here, known old alt accounts should get a red tag too since "the early days are different" reason is not acceptable.

There is no rule ever regarding Alt accounts. If you mean Alt accounts should have the same Bans imposed then I agree, anything less is Ban evasion. There is nothing stating that in the early days Plagiarism was acceptable, it was less of an issue and not monetized afaik.

Then, now they (unbanned users) started to ask for reduce sentences of their signature bans. It is a basic greedy instinct of human. We might see a new wave of suggestion topics on reduction of signature ban period. Tongue

We've already seen one, though it wasn't started by a banned user. I believe maybe because some of their chums received the reduced sentence and they still found it harsh.

I think at the very least state the reason why the account has been banned?  I always see posts asking why their old account has been banned from the forum (hence I assume that no one will state the reason of banning your account the moment you are banned?)

They do receive the basic message stating "plagiarism or spam". I've seen it mentioned by a Global Mod that it is to labor intensive to give everyone a reference to why they are banned. So for the ones who do create an appeal I've seen staff chime in with why they were banned. Don't forget a lot of those posts wondering why are people who know exactly what they did who try to play some sympathy card or give an improbable explanation.

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May 18, 2019, 03:34:18 PM
 #27

The current ban of 60 days and 2 years sig ban is appropriate and it's OK for users who did the mistake years ago but I don't like the excuse that they were new in the forum and so it was OK according to them to copy another member's post just to rank up. That's the most silly excuse as none of them are 3-year-old kids. It's just copying in the exam and giving the excuse that they did it to get more marks. There's no one who doesn't know such a simple thing. It's a different thing if they posted a news article and forgot to add a reference but not those copy-paste posts. They can't be considered "good posters".
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May 19, 2019, 11:04:30 PM
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The current ban of 60 days and 2 years sig ban is appropriate and it's OK for users who did the mistake years ago but I don't like the excuse that they were new in the forum and so it was OK according to them to copy another member's post just to rank up. That's the most silly excuse as none of them are 3-year-old kids. It's just copying in the exam and giving the excuse that they did it to get more marks. There's no one who doesn't know such a simple thing. It's a different thing if they posted a news article and forgot to add a reference but not those copy-paste posts. They can't be considered "good posters".
Some banned users even received alternative with only one-year signature ban. I think it is a fair alternative for death-penalty (permanent ban), so I don't think it is appropriate to ask for another reduced sentence with signature ban. Someone whom ask for such signature ban reduction might see more serious things occur, and I believe they don't expect such more serious sentence after come back from death. Let's use that one or two years to rank up if they have been in lower rank (Senior members, for example). Using one or two years of signature ban to more effectively matured in knowledge, and skils by less distraction from signature and signature benefits. Generally, things will become better if we look at them in positive perspectives.




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May 20, 2019, 07:18:36 AM
 #29

Cellard was a great member of this forum, I'm not certain if he was promoting any of the project. Another user bill gator is too banned till 2021, he was promoting Chipmixer. These are only signature ban.

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May 20, 2019, 10:33:53 AM
 #30

....  I don't like the excuse that they were new in the forum and so it was OK according to them to copy another member's post just to rank up.

I believe plagiarism is a crime on intellectual property and an offence on the forum. It would have been an easy rank up with the old ranking system of 14 activities every two weeks, that was really a free ride  Grin.

However, such plagiarized ranking up wouldn't have been possible now with the merit system, just thousands of post counts amounting to nothing.

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May 20, 2019, 11:16:41 AM
 #31

Cellard was a great member of this forum, I'm not certain if he was promoting any of the project. Another user bill gator is too banned till 2021, he was promoting Chipmixer. These are only signature ban.
I don't know the user Cellard but I didn't expect that even bill gator will be banned too (unless this is fake). He is very active in this section and I remember his thread that he will give sMerits. Now nobody is exempted. Anybody who did break the rules even it is 5-6 years ago will be banned Cheesy

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May 20, 2019, 01:09:15 PM
 #32

I don't know the user Cellard but I didn't expect that even bill gator will be banned too (unless this is fake). He is very active in this section and I remember his thread that he will give sMerits. Now nobody is exempted. Anybody who did break the rules even it is 5-6 years ago will be banned Cheesy
It's not fake, he is banned. I have seen in one of the threads listing the recent ban appeal and the result. Later, I have had checked his profile too.
Check his profile- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=370611

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May 20, 2019, 01:39:19 PM
 #33

I don't know the user Cellard but I didn't expect that even bill gator will be banned too (unless this is fake). He is very active in this section and I remember his thread that he will give sMerits. Now nobody is exempted. Anybody who did break the rules even it is 5-6 years ago will be banned Cheesy
It's not fake, he is banned. I have seen in one of the threads listing the recent ban appeal and the result. Later, I have had checked his profile too.
Check his profile- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=370611

But he has not got a 60 days ban as per BPIP like others so it seems now only signature bans are being issued for members who have proved themselves? It seems unfair if we are considering the same crime and the punishment is different for all members.

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May 20, 2019, 01:40:35 PM
 #34

But he has not got a 60 days ban as per BPIP like others so it seems now only signature bans are being issued for members who have proved themselves? It seems unfair if we are considering the same crime and the punishment is different for all members.

BPIP doesn't show temp bans.

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May 20, 2019, 02:17:00 PM
 #35


But he has not got a 60 days ban as per BPIP like others so it seems now only signature bans are being issued for members who have proved themselves? It seems unfair if we are considering the same crime and the punishment is different for all members.


I have created a thread few days ago, from my observation, not all the banned users have had copied intentionally. bill gator is a good member of the forum. Newbies have much to learn from member member like them. Therefore, I support punishment to be reduced for some members.

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May 20, 2019, 03:24:45 PM
 #36

BPIP doesn't show temp bans.
Modlog does not show temp bans and signature bans, so that is why BPIP does not show such information on temporary bans and signature bans.
Yes, it is fair because only good users, with good net-effects will have chance to get temp bans & signature bans as alternatives of permanent bans due to plagiarism. So, it's true that there are limited cases will get such chances because there are unsignificant users get good net-effects. Even they are good net-effective users, if they did plagiarsim from time to time, their chances will be reduced.
But he has not got a 60 days ban as per BPIP like others so it seems now only signature bans are being issued for members who have proved themselves? It seems unfair if we are considering the same crime and the punishment is different for all members.




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May 20, 2019, 03:48:55 PM
 #37

BPIP doesn't show temp bans.
Ok, did not know that.


Modlog does not show temp bans and signature bans, so that is why BPIP does not show such information on temporary bans and signature bans.
Yes, it is fair because only good users, with good net-effects will have chance to get temp bans & signature bans as alternatives of permanent bans due to plagiarism. So, it's true that there are limited cases will get such chances because there are unsignificant users get good net-effects. Even they are good net-effective users, if they did plagiarsim from time to time, their chances will be reduced.

I said that the punishment is not fair if a temp-ban has also not been issued and it's just limited to signature ban. I was always for a temp ban and signature ban instead of a permanent ban if users have done this years ago and only once. The others who have been doing it in the past and even now deserve the perm-ban.
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May 20, 2019, 11:13:59 PM
 #38

I said that the punishment is not fair if a temp-ban has also not been issued and it's just limited to signature ban. I was always for a temp ban and signature ban instead of a permanent ban if users have done this years ago and only once. The others who have been doing it in the past and even now deserve the perm-ban.
You should read the newest post of theymos on recent banwave. Which kind of alternative for permanent ban will be decided for specific cases after manually handle. It's not the same for all, even case got permanent ban without signature ban. It's the point, and means that we have very flexible alternative for permanent ban.
Merely forgetting to quote things is not plagiarism, and if we read it that way, you probably won't be banned at all. For it to plagiarism, you have to have the intention of passing the text off as an original work by you. In all of these recent cases (unless we make a mistake, which is rare), it's extremely obvious in context that the person is copy/pasting to make money. Usually they're copy/pasting someone else's post and not adding anything else, in fact, which makes it very clear. Here's the most recent one:
I really like how the project is developed, we hope to get very far and that.Everything goes well and the group of developers keep us posted on everything.
I really like how the project is developed, we hope to get very far and that.Everything goes well and the group of developers keep us posted on everything

All of the recent cases are ~exactly like this, since this is what the bot looks for. (Thank you to the bot designer!)

If at any point you had a mindset where you'd treat the forum like a dumping ground by worthlessly copy/pasting other people's posts in order to make a tiny amount of money, then my default reaction is GTFO, and you have quite an uphill battle to earn even a 2-year sigban instead. No warnings, no statute of limitations.

I know of one case where someone was banned for plagiarism in the recent massacre, but a very careful reading of the context showed that the person actually did just forget to quote, and by "quoting" the post they were expressing an actual point even if it constituted their entire post. This person was unbanned without any sigban, since this isn't plagiarism.




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May 21, 2019, 08:07:30 AM
 #39

Cellard was a great member of this forum, I'm not certain if he was promoting any of the project. Another user bill gator is too banned till 2021, he was promoting Chipmixer. These are only signature ban.
The question is, how come dudes with an outstanding reputation like them did plagiarism?

About the signature campaign, I think this mass ban only remove a small percentage of participants. I doubt it will affect the forum's dynamic since managers could quickly get new campaign participants.

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May 21, 2019, 08:53:54 AM
 #40

The question is, how come dudes with an outstanding reputation like them did plagiarism?
The posts they got banned for were probably written years ago at a time when the users were relatively inexperienced. The BT unofficial rules were written sometimes in 2014 and if I remember correctly there were cases where users got banned for posts in 2014/2015, Cellard is one of them i think.

Probably a combination of different things that led to the copy/pasting.
Not knowing the rules.
Administration didn't put so much emphasise on plagiarism back in the time because it wasn't as wide spread as it is today.     

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May 21, 2019, 10:39:57 AM
 #41

Cellard was a great member of this forum, I'm not certain if he was promoting any of the project. Another user bill gator is too banned till 2021, he was promoting Chipmixer. These are only signature ban.
The question is, how come dudes with an outstanding reputation like them did plagiarism?

About the signature campaign, I think this mass ban only remove a small percentage of participants. I doubt it will affect the forum's dynamic since managers could quickly get new campaign participants.

Not everyone starts out with an outstanding reputation. Some people obviously made a silly mistake a long time ago and some people can change their ways and become a productive member of the community. You could compare it to stealing a chocolate bar when you were a kid. Does that make you a thief for life and should it follow you around forever? Well if you keep on stealing then sure, but for others who change their ways and learn from their mistakes should be given a second chance. 

For some of these old timers that are getting banned I wonder if these people have bought these accounts that were farmed via spamming/copy and pasting? I doubt someone would forget that they've done this in the past, or maybe they're just playing dumb. It's very surprising how many users have done it and even more so for how long they got away with it.

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May 21, 2019, 12:36:19 PM
 #42

I’m more concerned about you being a manager if you think that copy pasta is acceptable. So what if it was years ago the cunts should of read the rules

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May 21, 2019, 02:02:20 PM
 #43

Cellard was a great member of this forum, I'm not certain if he was promoting any of the project. Another user bill gator is too banned till 2021, he was promoting Chipmixer. These are only signature ban.
The question is, how come dudes with an outstanding reputation like them did plagiarism?

I am not certain which kind of plagiarism it was in the case of cellard. If plagiarism was not for monetary gaining (Imagine no signature campaign here), I guess no much soaring would be here, a least not like as of now. this outstanding reputed dude probably tried to help someone with the information from the internet, forget or didn't care much to add a reference link. I reckon dude would never say it's my opinion or my original works. It can be seen as a silly mistake.

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May 21, 2019, 03:38:06 PM
 #44

I have lost good Hero and Legendary posters on my list because they copypasted something years ago and it seems they cannot join again for a year. Now im having a hard time picking up experienced posters.
I don't know why a Campaign Manager would hide under the cloak of anonymity to make a complaint/point by resulting to an alt account. It would be great if you posted with your main account as a CM so the forum can regard this issue as serious.

Possibly, you're scared of getting a wedge?


Cellard was a great member of this forum, I'm not certain if he was promoting any of the project. Another user bill gator is too banned till 2021, he was promoting Chipmixer. These are only signature ban.
The banned members can still offer their Avatar spaces for rent once their 60 days ban is over. I don't think the signature ban affects that as I can still see their avatars on.

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May 21, 2019, 06:20:58 PM
 #45



For some of these old timers that are getting banned I wonder if these people have bought these accounts that were farmed via spamming/copy and pasting? I doubt someone would forget that they've done this in the past, or maybe they're just playing dumb. It's very surprising how many users have done it and even more so for how long they got away with it.
If this is true and those currently using the accounts are going to be held to account for the plagiarism of the farmer, we might as well ban account sales, even if you can’t prevent all of them. I don’t think it is reasonable to expect someone to check for plagiarism when they buy an account, or even know how to effectively check. This way if someone is banned for plagiarism the farmer did, there wouldn’t be an injustice because they should have been banned for using the purchased account anyway (or the purchased account should have been locked).

I don’t think it would be difficult to generally tell if a person in good standing had purchased their account after the time of plagiarism.

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May 21, 2019, 06:32:07 PM
 #46

If this is true and those currently using the accounts are going to be held to account for the plagiarism of the farmer, we might as well ban account sales, even if you can’t prevent all of them. I don’t think it is reasonable to expect someone to check for plagiarism when they buy an account, or even know how to effectively check. This way if someone is banned for plagiarism the farmer did, there wouldn’t be an injustice because they should have been banned for using the purchased account anyway (or the purchased account should have been locked).

I don’t think it would be difficult to generally tell if a person in good standing had purchased their account after the time of plagiarism.


While I'm not opposed to account sales being banned. This line of thought might become peoples next attempt at a get out of Jail free card. Even if they were banned moving forward it wouldn't change where we are now in dealing with these past infractions. They bough the account and if they weren't going to do their part to ensure the reputation they were buying was clean they can deal with the consequences of it. See it can go both ways, they bough the account and rank for the benefits, they can deal with the negatives as well, I don't see an injustice here. Buyer beware and whatnot.

On that note, seeing as these appeals can be made to Moderators, they can admit to their account being a bought account without further repercussions, such as negative feedback depending on when it was purchased. In case they bought it after it became an unacceptable practice, as it's still allowed based on forum guidelines.

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May 21, 2019, 06:39:34 PM
 #47

I have lost good Hero and Legendary posters on my list because they copypasted something years ago and it seems they cannot join again for a year. Now im having a hard time picking up experienced posters.
-snip-
The banned members can still offer their Avatar spaces for rent once their 60 days ban is over. I don't think the signature ban affects that as I can still see their avatars on.
[/quote]

Why will they be given such privilege to rent out their avatar space? these categories of members shouldn't be given any right to that becasue they will indulge in the same act, it should be free post from them without pay period.    

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May 21, 2019, 06:47:39 PM
 #48

If this is true and those currently using the accounts are going to be held to account for the plagiarism of the farmer, we might as well ban account sales, even if you can’t prevent all of them. I don’t think it is reasonable to expect someone to check for plagiarism when they buy an account, or even know how to effectively check. This way if someone is banned for plagiarism the farmer did, there wouldn’t be an injustice because they should have been banned for using the purchased account anyway (or the purchased account should have been locked).

I don’t think it would be difficult to generally tell if a person in good standing had purchased their account after the time of plagiarism.


While I'm not opposed to account sales being banned. This line of thought might become peoples next attempt at a get out of Jail free card. Even if they were banned moving forward it wouldn't change where we are now in dealing with these past infractions. They bough the account and if they weren't going to do their part to ensure the reputation they were buying was clean they can deal with the consequences of it. See it can go both ways, they bough the account and rank for the benefits, they can deal with the negatives as well, I don't see an injustice here. Buyer beware and whatnot.

On that note, seeing as these appeals can be made to Moderators, they can admit to their account being a bought account without further repercussions, such as negative feedback depending on when it was purchased. In case they bought it after it became an unacceptable practice, as it's still allowed based on forum guidelines.

Well some of the plagiarism was done well before plagiarism was (known to be) a problem. When I was in the business years ago, I never would have thought to check for plagiarism, and I don’t believe anyone ever asked me about plagiarism when buying an account from me.

I think it should be easy to detect if an account was sold a long time ago based on IP evidence and password changes. I don’t think many people would think to fake an account sale that would be apparent to the admins to evade plagiarism from years ago, as IMO those plagiarizing thought it would go unnoticed indefinitely. 

Ideally we can get the plagiarism problem under control so that all prior plagiarism is found and punished as appropriate and future plagiarism is quickly uncovered.

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May 21, 2019, 11:57:12 PM
 #49

Plagiarism has been an issue roaming around the forum affecting almost everyone plagiarized their threads when they were newbies/brand new members. Unfortunately, it affected also the quality and experienced members that is why there are lots of ban appeals in this section right now. But bear this in mind: with the number of people joining this forum everyday, there will never be a shortage of good posters and quality members.


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May 22, 2019, 12:01:38 AM
 #50

Competitive campaigns are hard to join, so it is obviosly that accepted applicants are really good posters. However, it does not mean that forum only have them are good posters, there are so many more good posters that rejected with their applicants due to a little bit less high quality than accepted users, but they are still good posters whom readily to take over open slots from banned users. Good thing is most of good posters whom got banned likely will get reduced sentence and will come back. It takes years for them to be able to join campaign again, but it is not too long to come back and contribute to forum via their posts after temporary bans passed.

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