Let's try this...
1. If you left me red trust for liking lemons then
a/ browsers of this forum not logged in would see a message strongly suggesting I am a scammer.
b/ people reading my posts who do not go to the trust page will likely assume I am a scammer.
c/ If everyone leaves random red for things not related to scamming the trust score is no longer helpful against scammers
d/ People are not removed and it does not fix itself as far as we can see under the new system.
a. Browsers of the forum not logged in, who's opinions don't matter in the slightest would see a warning saying that someone has given you negative feedback.
This is of course incorrect. Every persons opinion matters if you care about the the truth being known or the most optimal outcome being reached. For example, say I was making a thread to warn about a certain projects instamine and the very high risk of investing due to the colluding holders had managed to use such a narrow distribution that a handful of people could crash the market or manipulate prices as they saw fit. If these potential investors see that this person is a scammer they may ignore what I am telling them. There are so many examples of why EVERYONES opinion matters in certain contexts I will leave it there for you to consider all of the others. The reverse is obviously true also if someone had reviewed a white paper and found it to be useful and had solved some of the issues btc has but the content was above the understanding of most readers, the fact you had a scammers warning would again influence their support of the project. The implications are endless.b. Who cares? Are you doing business with them? If so would they not look at your feedback, if not, why care what other people who have no interaction with you think? I think you are a 9 meter tall purple dragon, do you need to prove me wrong about that?
This is related to point Ac. Who is to judge what is related to scamming? The users that read your feedback. Maybe lemon hate is part of my fanatical religious belief, and other lemon haters out there need to know your preferences on lemons. Those that agree with me about lemons will take my warning to heart, and those that think I'm a nut job will ignore it.
This subjective ANYTHING can be scamming nonsense is what renders the trust score meaningless. Like ANYTHING can be a GOOD post renders merit meaningless and misleading. To the point you have REAL scammers as per the accepted definition of scamming red trusting those that busted them for scamming in public. The entire thing is moronic. If you want people to scan through pages of subjective bitching and personal arguements then just call it FEEDBACK it is nothing to do with TRUST and giving it a SCORE that is supposedly meant to have some meaning is bogus.
d. Just because its not working the way you'd like doesn't mean its not working. There are some new interesting developments with DT, but I don't think it has yet stopped serving its intended purpose. People are just fighting over DT ratings while those actually trading continue to operate as normal, completely detached from who left someone feedback for lemons and who is a jerk.
TRUST in terms of helping people avoiding getting SCAMMED is not where scammers and liars get to give NEGATIVE trust scores to the people that busted them for lying and scamming. It is NOT working. Besides it is undeniable that it influences the free speech as we have seen. When merit (governs you ability to pay2post and the rate of pay2post) and red trust does the same but with added implications for trading then you can see there is clear motive and clear fear to fall in line with those that give merit out and can give red trust out. It is totally foolish to argue people can still say and do what they like unfettered. That is like saying you are free to tell your boss to fuck off when you feel like it or you believe he is in the wrong ... of course you can but you will likely lose your job and your salary then your home etc, so you keep your mouth shut. To say merit and red trust do not create echo chambers and group think is again naive. Perhaps you are only seeing this board from your own pov
2 trust bullying has HUGE and far reaching implications for free speech. It is undeniable and crazy to say it does not matter. Unless you do not care about free speech.
trust bullying allows DT members to punish whistle blowers which obviously facilitates scammers.
the message from LTC that was revealed demonstrates his actions were that of someone intimidated and scared to do what he thought was the right thing. This again facilitates scamming and influences a persons right to behave how they feel they should.
I do not. As apparent, people say whatever they want regardless of trust bullying. Some people make alts, others send private messages to tip off others. Choosing not to speak up is a choice. Come on now, we are talking about forum politics, no one has your family kidnapped. Lauda can't actually whack you if you speak out against them, and it sure would be awful if they gave you frivolous negative feedback that would help you further your point. Free speech does not mean that you can say whatever you want without people responding however they see fit. Freedom of speech is to protect you from the government for saying something they don't like, not to do whatever you want on an online forum without people getting mad at you.
Answered above. But it is foolish to point as us and say you are saying what you want after getting red trust so other people are obviously free to say what they want and getting red trust has no influence. Lauda and his goons can allow you to have a sig and control your rates via merit, they can take your sig away, effect your ability to trade, and hound and troll you. It is madness to claim people are not being prevented from speaking freely. Look at vod he is clearly saying to OGnasty that he can not dare give lauda or his goons red or speak out against them because they will ruin his account. You are still spouting madness on a level near the lemons entire thing after theymos clearly has said red is for SCAMMING only. Have the lemons debate with him in public if you still believe it is a valid reason to leave red trust. Let me watch how that goes down.
3/ Well you can see how LFC was effected. Now bill will be effected in a different way to nutildah. We have not been effected since we refuse to be pushed about by this kind of lying scammer and his grubby little clan. It is quite reasonable to believe many others behaviors are effected in the same way. Thule and others have been effected since their ability to earn from sigs (like you do) is now taken away. What if they needed that money?
Not really, still just looks like everyone has hurt feelings. What has your refusal to be pushed around accomplished besides spam? I'm not saying you are wrong to stand up for yourself, but what possible damage could have been done? I just think you are wasting your time. Just saying, "yeah whatever man" when Lauda goes on a power trip is just as effective as spending 120 hours composing posts about how outraged you are. Why has their ability to earn from sigs been taken away? Does every single campaign operator value Lauda's feedback?
This post leads me to believe your understanding of paid2post here is very limited. These highly gamed and abused metrics of merit and trust (both controlled by the same group) are being used as the benchmarks or thresholds to gain access to paid2post. It is no co-incidence that the highest paid spots are held by those that control DT and merit. Who would have thought? I notice now campaign managers like hhampuz are refusing to be transparent regarding their selection process. Trying to shift responsibility to these gamed metrics controlled by their pals. The entire system is completely laughable in terms of creating a transparent, fair environment where people are treated equally or even a meritocracy. The entire system is gamed garbage that crushes free speech and financially rewards the abusers and manipulators. It is undeniable that the systems are wide open to this and incentivize and reward successful collusion, gaming, abuse. It is touched on above. You may have clear evidence in the form of observable instances that lauda is a liar and scammer and you would think that producing this would be welcomed and shared. It is not. It results in the liar and scammer giving you red trust to shut you up. Just because it does not shut you up you can not know how many others remain silent about things they know about other possible scammers and liars in DT because they fear their paid2post and trading capabilities being crushed. So now the trust system HELPS scammers. This is clearly not its intended purpose.
4. Wrong. Lauda has proven he is far more dangerous. The sheer number of instances of him being directly involved or implicated in untrustworthy and scamming behaviors of course endangers people on this forum. How can it not? What if they find out who you are and threaten to doxx you if you don't pay up? what if they lie to you about the initial distribution of a project and the colluding instaminers dump it all crushing your investment to zero? what if they decide to try to benefit from your funds you trust them with for escrow and they lose it all trying to gain from some fork? this is dangerous for the entire board and the reputation of the entire forum? what if you spoke out about an observable instance of they lying or scamming and they all red trust you? we feel you may sing a different tune.
What if Lauda comes to my house and pisses in my cheerios? What do I do if they threaten to dox me if I don't pay up? I suppose I'd contact an admin or global moderator. Illegal activities result in bans here. If your investment is so shaky that a lie from Lauda can ruin it, you are an idiot for investing in it. If I had a bunch of red trust tomorrow and for whatever reason it was all staged perfectly so that I couldn't refute it, I'd ask MinerJones to escrow for me when I make trades here.
A global mod would likely take a dump in your cheerios if he heard lauda tell him too or no more fortunejack, chipmixer, theymos would take a look in the bowl and tell you that is a "gray" issue... have a few spoon fulls and stop whining on you boring bastard. He would have said lauda was bad, but you moaned too much too soon and are therefore insane. Start to enjoy the taste of laudas bodily waste he may ask lauda to stop pissing on your food if you don't mention it for the next 5 years. Besides lauda bakes him nice cookies. "Annoying asshole that SS at times. Sorry lauda, you have to endure these pesky whiners, now where was that french toast I was thinking about you making for me, wash your hands first please". Oh really because we heard a mod was involved in passing the dox information to lauda or actually was lauda not a mod at the time? Would it not be better if this decentralized trust system prohibited lauda doing this in the first place, or actually punished him rather than reward him?
Again you misunderstand the investment part. I almost feel you have no experience with the alt board at all and how even smart investors can be ruined by a bunch of colluding scum who manage to pull off a narrow distribution initially and can collude and manipulate/crash/exit the market at will. Lauda telling you he was on the launch and there was no instamine at all with glowing 300 green trust, then someone with -2000 red saying he was REALLY on the launch and there REALLY was an instamine.... you start to see the problem I HOPE. IT only takes a few "influential members" to fuck over 100s of investors. You must leave the bitcoin section one time and have a look how other distributions work.
5. Don't care about double standards? nobody is entitled to anything fair? so you would elect people to positions of power and trust and not care if they dole out double standards and are observably unfair? this leads to corruption, scamming and a toxic environment here. People naturally want things to be fair. Double standards are sickening.
I don't acknowledge DT as a position of power. It sucks that things aren't fair, thats how the world works. All of these rights and fair things you keep talking about are government guaranteed rights to protect you from systematic abuse. The government doesn't have the right to say, alright you plagiarized so your life is over, but your account can be banned for that reason. You don't have a whole lot of recourse if someone decides to pick a fight with you on an internet forum, as long as its within the rules.
You seem to have driven off a cliff here. If you wish to create an optimal pleasant atmosphere where people can share ideas and take crypto adoption and development further at an optimal rate. You can not introduce systems that create group think, echo chambers, wars over how unfair it CLEARLY is when you have such huge displays of double standards. I mean introducing systems of control where the same people that control most merit flow (to each other) all including each other on DT and excluding similar people, all of whom control the best sig campaign spots and group together to defend their scams and lies and punish people that present observable instances that demonstrate they are dirty is going to create a complete and utter mess and anarchy. To tie together the carrot (merit) and the stick(red trust) to the same group was folly. It will lead to the fastest destruction of this board possible. Perhaps these really are your views but it seems unthinkable
6. You do care about scammers ( a little bit)? so scamming as in lying or deceiving others for financial gain? you accept this is the definition of scamming?
Fraudulently obtaining money from someone, with cash or cash equivalent changing hands.
Lying/misleading people for financial gain is pretty much the same thing and exactly what lauda did. I mean you can fuck up a scam and not actually end up gaining personally of course but you still scammed people.
7. You don't care about liars unless you trade with them personally? but do care if someone shares a pm they did not promise to keep secret? just trying to get a feel for the mind of SS here.
Do you know how many people on this forum have killed another human? Do you know how many have committed actual serious crimes and have never been caught? I don't know either, but if you care too much about everything around you, you'll drive yourself crazy. Everyone on the internet is a liar to some extent. My real name isn't SaltySpitoon! I casually sprinkle a lie into my posts now and then, I don't actually believe you are a 9 meter tall dragon, and I used my measurement in terms of meters to possibly imply that I don't live in the U.S! I'm not going to worry about things outside an immediate sphere of feasible threats. Sharing a PM is a behavior I find untrustworthy, to me it means that someone doesn't respect a user's privacy. When I'm buying or selling something here, I use my real name. I am under the assumption that with reasonable people, they will not act in a spiteful manner such as releasing my information if I do not prompt them to do so, for example by scamming them.
We agree in part. Sharing a PM is unsavory. We have had messages from people that say we need to continue but they fear to join in. We would never reveal their messages since their message just because we would not feel good about doing so. I am going to say that regards the rest we are likely a little less selfish than you. Going out of our way to help others being picked on even if it results in our own red trust and hassle from "those with power" is acceptable. We do not like bullies or ass lickers the latter supports the former. Obvious jokes and banter are not lies. Like if I tell my friends santa brought me a new car this xmas. They don't immediately scream liar and untrustworthy. They understand I am joking and bought it myself.
8. You don't care in the slightest about people using red trust to silence or attempt to silence whistle blowers? which obviously increases the probability of people getting scammed? or using red trust to gain support for their agendas? this a legitimate use of red trust to you?
Nope, because for the past years that I've been trading here, that hasn't seemed to occur.
Well the observable instances demonstrate clearly it does happen and happened when you were a mod too, starting with CH's red, vods crying he dare not red trust lauda or his gang (during your watch), now LFC crying he does not want to do it but he is scared of lauda and his gang. Wake up SS,it is red pill time..Having said all of this we are more convinced you are just a bit of a strange individual perhaps rather than an ardent supporter of scammers and liars. Perhaps there is hope for SS. Perhaps just needs to be nailed down to a full debate and reprogrammed a little bit. You seem to be only able to consider what you consider are direct consequences. The world is not that simple I'm afraid. There are far reaching and very damaging consequences for the thing you say you do not care about at all.
Not interested in any brainwashing you are attempting. I've been a member here for 8 years, and was a moderator for ~5 years. I've got a pretty decent idea of how things have worked around here, where the troubles were, and how they were fixed. I really don't mean this as a insult, but if this isn't all just a game to you, I pity you. I'm sure there is so much more going on right now that you could use your time productively for. In the grander scheme of things, this is just as stupid as getting into a month long fight with someone on Reddit that insults your mother. None of this has any meaningful impact on you, rise above the forum bullshit and reclaim your time.
As for me, I've got a couple of days off and nothing better to do, so here I am! But, I'll go back to ignoring your long rambly posts that inspire me to write equally long rambly posts soon.
It is an interest, and perhaps this board is worth fighting for more than you think it is. Your understanding seems very limited on many aspects if you are being honest and not just trying to create specious explanations and opinions to maintain the status quo which is currently fucked.. Perhaps you have never ventured to the alt section. This is my TLDR:
Who cares about what people on the internet do or think, worry about real problems. If you don't have more pressing problems, I guess good for you? Getting spun up at every provocation and atrocity committed against you is not the way to go.
Also:
Don't you get tired of the egotistical masturbation?
*edit*
-snip-
If you send me information, unsolicited and unencrypted, there should be no reason to believe I will keep said information confidential because that is not something I agreed to do.
-snip-
Good to know.
