Socialism is so bad that it allows poor people to live. Horrible true story

[KingScorpio]

Hey

I just wanted to share this study proving something reaaaaaaally horrible. In horrible socialist countries like France... Poor people actually have the same care than the rich.

https://www.nber.org/papers/w24623.pdf

Joke aside, health is a major proof that free market is just market controled by money. Nothing else.

Do you want a society where health is dependant on your wealth?


There is a persistent lie spread saying that nationalizing a market is making it inneficient and stupidly buraucratic.

Well sorry to say but difference between a nationalized market and a free but regulated market is, for health, 50% more costly for USA and extremely inequal system.


Socialism is horrible right?

socialism has to be implemented correct.

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[merchantofzeny]

There's no easy solution to this but considering even doctors and accountants in Cuba are side hustling as taxi drivers for tourists to make ends meet, what's clear is government is hardly efficient, whether it's capitalist or socialist. It's not their money they're spending.

I'm no economist but probably someone can find a good way to provide incentives or at least discourage bad behavior. We don't even have universal healthcare where I live but the government does provide subsidies for certain conditions and years ago an eye clinic was shutdown for doing unnecessary operations on the elderly. These people wouldn't have been able to afford these surgeries anyway but since the government is footing the bill... Of course others don't go that far but they do make you come back more often than necessary since they get paid each time anyway. Heard this is also the reason for increasing number of C-Section surgeries in the US.

socialism has to be implemented correct.

If it fails, it must be not true Socialism but something else.

[IPVPIRL]

Hey

I just wanted to share this study proving something reaaaaaaally horrible. In horrible socialist countries like France... Poor people actually have the same care than the rich.

https://www.nber.org/papers/w24623.pdf

Joke aside, health is a major proof that free market is just market controled by money. Nothing else.

Do you want a society where health is dependant on your wealth?


There is a persistent lie spread saying that nationalizing a market is making it inneficient and stupidly buraucratic.

Well sorry to say but difference between a nationalized market and a free but regulated market is, for health, 50% more costly for USA and extremely inequal system.


Socialism is horrible right?

In capitalism health care has quality and is available for everyone as long as the rich pay their taxes. Although, especially in the last decade, they found many ways to avoid taxes (like fake donations) creating implications for the quality of health care system as well as the whole public sector as well.
So the top of the pyramid keeps multiplying their wealth while the common folks, every working person, every employee can't possibly hide their income and is obligated to pay. This is the system and it also has even worse implementations depending on which country you live and how the people reacted. It is a fact that rich people get better health care as well as having access to better education, living standards and job prospects. It is also a fact that socialism has all these problems solved from day one. What they kept telling my people in my country was that this is the system we have and it works. They kept saying it until it stopped working. I have studied economics and understand both systems. There are errors in both, but the errors of globalized capitalism under the pretext of "freedom" is the worst possible system for any society and what it is promising is only a dystopian future.

[Naida_BR]

Hey

I just wanted to share this study proving something reaaaaaaally horrible. In horrible socialist countries like France... Poor people actually have the same care than the rich.

https://www.nber.org/papers/w24623.pdf

Joke aside, health is a major proof that free market is just market controled by money. Nothing else.

Do you want a society where health is dependant on your wealth?


There is a persistent lie spread saying that nationalizing a market is making it inneficient and stupidly buraucratic.

Well sorry to say but difference between a nationalized market and a free but regulated market is, for health, 50% more costly for USA and extremely inequal system.


Socialism is horrible right?

In our world inequalities exist at their best. Having said that, socialism cannot work and make a peaceful world. There are some good points in this political approach but it cannot be adopted. Maybe a mix of capitalism and socialism can solve our problems easier than we have ever thought.

[squatz1]

There's no easy solution to this but considering even doctors and accountants in Cuba are side hustling as taxi drivers for tourists to make ends meet, what's clear is government is hardly efficient, whether it's capitalist or socialist. It's not their money they're spending.

I'm no economist but probably someone can find a good way to provide incentives or at least discourage bad behavior. We don't even have universal healthcare where I live but the government does provide subsidies for certain conditions and years ago an eye clinic was shutdown for doing unnecessary operations on the elderly. These people wouldn't have been able to afford these surgeries anyway but since the government is footing the bill... Of course others don't go that far but they do make you come back more often than necessary since they get paid each time anyway. Heard this is also the reason for increasing number of C-Section surgeries in the US.

socialism has to be implemented correct.

If it fails, it must be not true Socialism but something else.

Exactly. That's the argument that these socialists use time and time again. They continue to say how it's 'not true socialism' and 'it's not true communism' and so on. They're going to lie to themselves so much, that at a certain point even THEY believe their bullshit.

I don't understand how someone can live life like that, but that's life.

[TECSHARE]

socialism has to be implemented correct.

Sorry about the hundreds of millions of bodies, our bad. We will do it correctly this time, pinky promise!

[JaredKaragen]

My only comment:

Socialism forces the individual to be a slave to someone else's desires and perspectives.  There are benefits, and drawbacks.


I appreciate my ability to work hard and be able to achieve great things equal to my effort.

Taking away the ability to do better/more than the person next to you;  eats away at the heart of invention and innovation.




Each system has its flaws.   I prefer the capitalist system; it mainly only falls apart if what backs the 'money' becomes insolvent/worthless.

imagine 10 people owned 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of the earths wealth;  that's a fucked up but statistically possible scenario right?   The real question is;  would that wealth be worth the same in that distribution?

But i'm not here to debate;  just give a perspective and some hard real information and insight to the logic behind it.

[coins4commies]

No one denies the fact that capitalism is better for the wealthy.  Its far better and thats not even debatable.  Advocates of socialism are simply considering the quality of life of the typical person as opposed to just those in situations of privilege.  

Once you have the facts (and not just some parroted talking points), neither are debatable.  Perspective and morals are the only things that matter in determining preference.

[TECSHARE]

No one denies the fact that capitalism is better for the wealthy.  Its far better and thats not even debatable.  Advocates of socialism are simply considering the quality of life of the typical person as opposed to just those in situations of privilege.  

Once you have the facts (and not just some parroted talking points), neither are debatable.  Perspective and morals are the only things that matter in determining preference.

I guess it is just a coincidence every time Socialism and Communism are tried it results in more poor starving people while the wealthy elite remain untouched. Your ideas are not revolutionary. Communism is to real revolution as porn stars are to having real titties. They might look and feel the same at first, but after a while they get leaky, age, and become counterproductive toward their intended purpose and require blood to be drawn in order to remove them.

[coins4commies]

https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/pdf/10.2105/AJPH.76.6.661

Everytime i've posted actual references, you've refused to read it and continued on with mythological talking points but maybe if I just keep reposting it over and over this time will be the time you read it.  
https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/pdf/10.2105/AJPH.76.6.661

Also, all of my favorite porn stars have natural tits.

https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/pdf/10.2105/AJPH.76.6.661

[JaredKaragen]

No one denies the fact that capitalism is better for the wealthy.  Its far better and thats not even debatable.  Advocates of socialism are simply considering the quality of life of the typical person as opposed to just those in situations of privilege.  

Once you have the facts (and not just some parroted talking points), neither are debatable.  Perspective and morals are the only things that matter in determining preference.

If you want to compare socialism to capitalism;  show the whole picture... not the small details leaving out the rest of the story as you accuse;  and maybe I will consider walking down the road to discuss it with you....
In capitalist societies, privilege is earned.  Our rights aren't privilege....  Don't mistake that.

To say that socialism a better quality of life is quite subjective on the level of acceptance/quality of life I expect;  not to mention the great numbers of historical shortfalls socialism has shown us over the years.   It's amazing how people that aren't given [what I consider to be] inalienable basic human rights; are quick to cite privilege against capitalism when they are coming from a heavily biased socialist sentiment.  Socialist policies are 100% privilege to the people whom they apply to.... using a socialist type of irrational thought process.


All I can say, is I have experienced both systems in my life.   I have also seen the good and bad parts of both systems first hand around the world.     Medically, and systemically they have taught me some important things in life.

Historically, capitalist societies flourish better, and lead to more opportunity to pursue ones own happiness in life;  not someone else's.  Who are you to tell someone how to live their life?  How is your opinion any better or greater than anyone else's?

Trust me.  I have plenty of facts.    

The main issue is people not being receptive to those facts on both sides, and accepting that both people are correct, and incorrect at the same time.    

Learn to live with it; don't force yourself on others.  That's how socialism could actually work.... but then it wouldn't be socialism; not having a standardized tiered set of control and "parameters" for people to conform to as to complete [person/entity]'s objective.

[PrimeNumber7]

No one denies the fact that capitalism is better for the wealthy.  Its far better and thats not even debatable.  Advocates of socialism are simply considering the quality of life of the typical person as opposed to just those in situations of privilege. 

Once you have the facts (and not just some parroted talking points), neither are debatable.  Perspective and morals are the only things that matter in determining preference.

Capitalism raises the standard of living for everyone involved. Socialism does the opposite.

In Venezuela, people are starving, even though their income has gone way up in nominal terms (there has been years of hyperinflation). People cannot access other basic necessities such as medical care and electricity either.

In the United States, there is a raising wealth gap, but life expediency is going up. Most health problems revolve around people consuming too much food, but there is still adequate access to healthcare. There are some problems with the education system, but this is mostly due to democratic policies such as preventing charter schools in favor of continuing to receive political donations from teachers unions. The US education system is still producing an increasing number of college graduates per capita.   

[coins4commies]

No one denies the fact that capitalism is better for the wealthy.  Its far better and thats not even debatable.  Advocates of socialism are simply considering the quality of life of the typical person as opposed to just those in situations of privilege.  

Once you have the facts (and not just some parroted talking points), neither are debatable.  Perspective and morals are the only things that matter in determining preference.

If you want to compare socialism to capitalism;  show the whole picture... not the small details leaving out the rest of the story as you accuse;  and maybe I will consider walking down the road to discuss it with you....
In capitalist societies, privilege is earned.  Our rights aren't privilege....  Don't mistake that.

To say that socialism a better quality of life is quite subjective on the level of acceptance/quality of life I expect;  not to mention the great numbers of historical shortfalls socialism has shown us over the years.   It's amazing how people that aren't given [what I consider to be] inalienable basic human rights; are quick to cite privilege against capitalism when they are coming from a heavily biased socialist sentiment.  Socialist policies are 100% privilege to the people whom they apply to.... using a socialist type of irrational thought process.


All I can say, is I have experienced both systems in my life.   I have also seen the good and bad parts of both systems first hand around the world.     Medically, and systemically they have taught me some important things in life.

Historically, capitalist societies flourish better, and lead to more opportunity to pursue ones own happiness in life;  not someone else's.  Who are you to tell someone how to live their life?  How is your opinion any better or greater than anyone else's?

Trust me.  I have plenty of facts.    

The main issue is people not being receptive to those facts on both sides, and accepting that both people are correct, and incorrect at the same time.    

Learn to live with it; don't force yourself on others.  That's how socialism could actually work.... but then it wouldn't be socialism; not having a standardized tiered set of control and "parameters" for people to conform to as to complete [person/entity]'s objective.

I've repeatedly cited a published paper on a study that compared the two and found socialism produced better physical quality of life 93% of the time. You've done nothing but continue to regurgitate capitalist gospel.

Most people are born into their privilege in capitalism so there is no way it can be earned.  Things are bought in capitalism, not earned.  Things can only be earned when the fruit of labor goes to the laborer.  Capitalism is literally the opposite of that. I buy shares and get the fruits of other people's labor while I lay on the beach. 

Socialism cannot be blamed for every bad thing that has ever happened in a country with socialist economic principles.

[KingScorpio]

There's no easy solution to this but considering even doctors and accountants in Cuba are side hustling as taxi drivers for tourists to make ends meet, what's clear is government is hardly efficient, whether it's capitalist or socialist. It's not their money they're spending.

I'm no economist but probably someone can find a good way to provide incentives or at least discourage bad behavior. We don't even have universal healthcare where I live but the government does provide subsidies for certain conditions and years ago an eye clinic was shutdown for doing unnecessary operations on the elderly. These people wouldn't have been able to afford these surgeries anyway but since the government is footing the bill... Of course others don't go that far but they do make you come back more often than necessary since they get paid each time anyway. Heard this is also the reason for increasing number of C-Section surgeries in the US.

socialism has to be implemented correct.

If it fails, it must be not true Socialism but something else.

look at usa, without socialism you cant keep a society together,

and look at crypto without trusted socialism they cant even run a currency, why else are they begging for regulation?

they want to fool money earning cattle.

regards

[squatz1]

No one denies the fact that capitalism is better for the wealthy.  Its far better and thats not even debatable.  Advocates of socialism are simply considering the quality of life of the typical person as opposed to just those in situations of privilege.  

Once you have the facts (and not just some parroted talking points), neither are debatable.  Perspective and morals are the only things that matter in determining preference.

If you want to compare socialism to capitalism;  show the whole picture... not the small details leaving out the rest of the story as you accuse;  and maybe I will consider walking down the road to discuss it with you....
In capitalist societies, privilege is earned.  Our rights aren't privilege....  Don't mistake that.

To say that socialism a better quality of life is quite subjective on the level of acceptance/quality of life I expect;  not to mention the great numbers of historical shortfalls socialism has shown us over the years.   It's amazing how people that aren't given [what I consider to be] inalienable basic human rights; are quick to cite privilege against capitalism when they are coming from a heavily biased socialist sentiment.  Socialist policies are 100% privilege to the people whom they apply to.... using a socialist type of irrational thought process.


All I can say, is I have experienced both systems in my life.   I have also seen the good and bad parts of both systems first hand around the world.     Medically, and systemically they have taught me some important things in life.

Historically, capitalist societies flourish better, and lead to more opportunity to pursue ones own happiness in life;  not someone else's.  Who are you to tell someone how to live their life?  How is your opinion any better or greater than anyone else's?

Trust me.  I have plenty of facts.    

The main issue is people not being receptive to those facts on both sides, and accepting that both people are correct, and incorrect at the same time.    

Learn to live with it; don't force yourself on others.  That's how socialism could actually work.... but then it wouldn't be socialism; not having a standardized tiered set of control and "parameters" for people to conform to as to complete [person/entity]'s objective.

People don't understand that while CAPITALISM does have its flaws, it is still the best system out of the ones that we've tried to this date. People who advocate for more socialism, typically live in countries where there is Capitalism and not Socialism -- you would know that if you were to live in a socialist country, you wouldn't want to be there.

That's the way it goes.

Those people in Capitalist countries don't know how well they have it.

[BitBustah]

The most ideal situation is to at least have a base floor of life for people.  Let people continue to make large amounts of wealth but I still believe the basics of life should not be in the free market.  Healthcare, shelter, education, food, these things become a nightmare when only left to the free market.

Its not right for someone to own 20 houses and let them all sit vacant, that is a major flaw in the system.

Why would companies cure illness when they can make more profit by treating the symptoms?

[mOgliE]

Haven't see one single valid point.

Seems like no one can argue with results.

[TECSHARE]

Haven't see one single valid point.

Seems like no one can argue with results.

Yep, you cant argue with results.

[JaredKaragen]

I've repeatedly cited a published paper on a study that compared the two and found socialism produced better physical quality of life 93% of the time. You've done nothing but continue to regurgitate capitalist gospel.

Most people are born into their privilege in capitalism so there is no way it can be earned.  Things are bought in capitalism, not earned.  Things can only be earned when the fruit of labor goes to the laborer.  Capitalism is literally the opposite of that. I buy shares and get the fruits of other people's labor while I lay on the beach.  

Socialism cannot be blamed for every bad thing that has ever happened in a country with socialist economic principles.

Yes, You cite a paper that knitpicks certain aspects forgoing the rest of the data and historical facts that show otherwise in many other respects beyond those few.  The aspects that arise from the systems of each are vast and complicated;  and you have to be ignorant to believe that all of them can be referenced and compared at once like that.

I have lived in, and had my life effected by both systems.

I chose capitalism because I have seen its effect in my life and others is greater and better than socialism.   Your bashing of me for retaining this principal based on my real life experiences,  changes nothing.

You say things are bought and not earned.

In Venezuela;  their food is bought just like ours.... except somehow our shelves are stocked.   Your short-sided analogies are extremely flawed.


I don't blame socialism alone for the downfall of socialist societies (as you imply);  I use it in evidence of commonalities across history to make my judgments;  on top of what I have been through first-hand.

People don't understand that while CAPITALISM does have its flaws, it is still the best system out of the ones that we've tried to this date. People who advocate for more socialism, typically live in countries where there is Capitalism and not Socialism -- you would know that if you were to live in a socialist country, you wouldn't want to be there.

That's the way it goes.

Those people in Capitalist countries don't know how well they have it.

It's kind of a double-edge sword of a analytical approach though....  because most people who truly believe in socialism to their core;  say one socialist society/scheme or the other does't "have it right" or  "isn't as it should be".....  

IMHO;  no singular perspective  will ever have it "right";  there is no equality when individual opinions are vast and unique.

[KingScorpio]

My only comment:

Socialism forces the individual to be a slave to someone else's desires and perspectives.  There are benefits, and drawbacks.


I appreciate my ability to work hard and be able to achieve great things equal to my effort.

Taking away the ability to do better/more than the person next to you;  eats away at the heart of invention and innovation.




Each system has its flaws.   I prefer the capitalist system; it mainly only falls apart if what backs the 'money' becomes insolvent/worthless.

imagine 10 people owned 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of the earths wealth;  that's a fucked up but statistically possible scenario right?   The real question is;  would that wealth be worth the same in that distribution?

But i'm not here to debate;  just give a perspective and some hard real information and insight to the logic behind it.

ok then do capitalism, but dont create a currency realm, and enforce it upon others, and block others from spending a different currency there.

liberty and capitalism are also going to split as will be democracy and capitalism.