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Author Topic: Does Decaying sMerits will be healthy for the forum?  (Read 408 times)
jademaxsuy
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May 28, 2019, 04:37:00 AM
 #1

It has been found out that many high rank user has been ban in the forum. Sad to say that they commit violations like plagiarism. Now, it seems that admin had find a better way that instead of permban, users that has prove its worth in the forum can have the chance in ban appeals liftimg the permban to signature wearing ban for 2 years.

If this signature ban will defeat its purpose to hold more high rank users in this forum then it is also time to create new found good users and promote them to higher ranks.

So in this case promoting good users to higher rank might be done easily when sMerits will be decayed if not given or awarded to users with a quality posting habit. I think this is how theymos had been thinking since he had said it a while that he had some plans on decaying sMerits.

What do you think could be a possible result if it will going to happen?

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May 28, 2019, 04:58:11 AM
Merited by OgNasty (1)
 #2

Decaying sMerits will force merit hoarders to pass it to others but it does not necessarily translate to promoting lower rank members. Those higher ranks can just send them to their fellow high ranked members. If you spend time reading discussions about smerits, you'll noticed that majority of the higher ranks have been active in searching for merit worthy posts but, according to them, there's only a few.
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May 28, 2019, 05:01:38 AM
 #3

Theymos might or might not implement that option anything soon, I don't think it'll have any impact because those who still don't want to participant in the meriting process still won't care if their smerit decay or not. Beside theymos has other options if he notice a sudden decline in circulation of smerits which is appointing new sources (which he just did few weeks back) or increasing the allocation of current sources.

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May 28, 2019, 05:53:19 AM
 #4

The fact that an smerit is decaying doesn't mean it should be given out irrationally. Any member that needs to rank up should not glutton on other users decaying smerit.
If you ask me the merit sources has been up and doing and even non merit sources has also be involved in the circulation of merit.
You would not be give a merit just because you need it to rank up but you would be giving if you come up with something good
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May 28, 2019, 06:02:15 AM
 #5

IMO the purpose of a forum is to have a meaningful discussion. Many high-ranked members banned, does not mean the community should replace those members ASAP. Thus, decaying sMerit and ban fiesta is not relevant.

Related to sMerit, I don't think decaying is going to be beneficial for the forum because it really takes a lot of time to find useful posts while participating in discussions. Well maybe if it takes one year or more to decay, then I think it's okay.

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May 28, 2019, 06:23:12 AM
 #6

Just to be clear, are we talking about decaying sMerits that would decay over time to encourage people to continue posting quality content to retain their high sMerit scores or are we talking about decaying sMerit when people are banned for some reason.

The sMerit system can be exploited if someone post exceptional posts for a few months and accumulate a lot of sMerits and then after achieving that goal, he or she starts to post non-constructive posts again. If the sMerit decays over time, people will have to continue posting quality content to retain their high sMerit scores.  Tongue
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May 28, 2019, 08:08:00 AM
 #7

Spending smerits is really good thing to the forum but it needs to be spend on worthy post,don't have to spend just on random posts which will kill the intention of merit system.And merit sources also try to exhaust their quota will make the more high ranks rather than the normal user's spend on merits.

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May 28, 2019, 09:20:32 AM
 #8

Just to be clear, are we talking about decaying sMerits that would decay over time to encourage people
Yes, to encourage people to pass on their sMerits for if not it will be decayed over a period of time. This is what theymos has said in one of his replies. But, it was just a plan and never it was being implemented seeing that it is not necessary for now. This is why I have discussed about ban high rank users to which their number has drastically decline and put to stop those high rank users good poster too. As we all know that some high rank users could lift the moral of the forum with their intellectual posting skills. Sad to say that some of them were being ban just because of committing a single violations that has been reported as plagiarism.

As I have mention if the signature ban will be defeated its purpose to retain good users without them removing in the forum might trigger theymos to start implementing decaying the sMerits. There are many users in the forum now that are only holding sMerits and does not put it to good use awarding quality posts.

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May 28, 2019, 10:01:56 AM
Merited by suchmoon (4)
 #9

If this signature ban will defeat its purpose to hold more high rank users in this forum then it is also time to create new found good users and promote them to higher ranks.
How would that work? If I understood correctly you are suggesting that someone should find quality posters and send them a bunch of merits, is that it?
How is that different from what is happening now? If you are a quality poster your posts will get merited X amount of times.

Or are you suggesting that a completely new group of quality posters should be found somewhere? You make it sound like there is a group of quality posters that don't receive merits for some reason and this is now there chance to rise and shine.

theymos can replenish the supply for merit sources whenever he wants to compensate for those merits that will be wasted due to the ban wave but they are not going to be awarded to users like an airdrop.

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May 28, 2019, 10:30:22 AM
Merited by suchmoon (4), Foxpup (3)
 #10

Decaying sMerits wouldn't achieve anything. There is no personal reward for spending sMerits. If users currently aren't sending their sMerits, then the threat of losing them is unlikely to spur them in to action. All it would mean is that they don't have any sMerit to send on the few occasions that they might want to.

Decaying sMerits would decrease the number of merits being circulated, not increase it. If there were genuinely too few merits going around, then a much simpler and more effective solution would be to increase the number of sources or individual source allocations.

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May 28, 2019, 11:00:56 AM
 #11

I don't agree with decay of merits so members will not be force of sending merits, it should be in their own will.

Some with merits are just not interested in giving merits, nor they are interested of receiving merits, I guess the giving of merits for low rank members to rank up should be the responsibility of the merit source, they should be given a minimum smerit spent over a certain period, and if they are not actively giving merits then they should be removed so the forum can find another source that will fulfill his responsibility.

yeah, I call it as a responsibility as otherwise, why would they apply to become a merit source? what should be their purpose if they will not spend it?

 
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May 28, 2019, 11:23:05 AM
 #12

The sMerit system can be exploited if someone post exceptional posts for a few months and accumulate a lot of sMerits and then after achieving that goal, he or she starts to post non-constructive posts again. If the sMerit decays over time, people will have to continue posting quality content to retain their high sMerit scores.  Tongue

sMerit (sendable merit) is not the same merit which determines your rank. Decaying merit would be a huge change which would also impact the flow of sMerit. Why would decaying sMerit encourage a sMerit hoarder to post more quality content if that sMerit disappeared after certain period of time? They don't spend it anyway.

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May 28, 2019, 11:53:39 AM
 #13

Finding a high quality poster is really difficult when you know that there are more than a million people here trying to get ranked up through different tactics (plagiarism is one of them). Sending merits to those who copy-paste their content 'even if it is of high quality' may get you into trouble because it is some other guy's material and you should always check what you are meriting.

Another part I checked here is if you think that people fear of getting their sMerits decayed and would send lower rank members those merits just for the sake of saving them, you are wrong. Merits are rewards and I would personally prefer getting them decayed if I don't find a single post deserving my sMerit/s (impossible I know, this is just an example). Although there are different means of quality in the mind of every unique person here, but I look more for the perspective and if someone justifies it (the topic) with their content, then they will surely get merits from me or anyone able to understand the depth or efforts that were put by the poster in that post.

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May 28, 2019, 12:46:21 PM
 #14

I guess the giving of merits for low rank members to rank up should be the responsibility of the merit source, they should be given a minimum smerit spent over a certain period, and if they are not actively giving merits then they should be removed so the forum can find another source that will fulfill his responsibility.
It is a different situation for merit sources than for everyone else. I agree that if merit sources are consistently not using their full allocation, then those sMerits should be reassigned to other or to new merit sources. This is already happening, though, as theymos keeps an eye on how much merit sources are using and rebalances as and when required.

Merits are rewards and I would personally prefer getting them decayed if I don't find a single post deserving my sMerit/s (impossible I know, this is just an example).
Agreed. If, instead of always being merit-broke, I was ever struggling to get through my source allocation, I would simply double up how many merits I was sending to each post rather than start awarding merit to sub-par posts.

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May 28, 2019, 01:33:14 PM
 #15

Merits are rewards and I would personally prefer getting them decayed if I don't find a single post deserving my sMerit/s (impossible I know, this is just an example).
Agreed. If, instead of always being merit-broke, I was ever struggling to get through my source allocation, I would simply double up how many merits I was sending to each post rather than start awarding merit to sub-par posts.

I am thankful to all those whom I was watching doing such mistakes by sending either too many merits to deserving posts or meriting just to save themselves from getting their merits decayed. Though, I think we need enough time to find and distribute 'in my way, reward' our specially given authority which is merits to those who are really doing something from their side without expecting.

Merit was created to be used as a rewarding system which is why I am giving them slowly to the most deserving users of the forum (mostly low rank users). That doesn't mean I don't have a criteria for high ranks, but I am currently focusing on those who deserve it to rank up and produce the same or even better quality in their posts.

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DdmrDdmr
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May 28, 2019, 02:10:58 PM
 #16

<…>
Smerits (sendable merits) on an account can be obtained as we know by:

- The one time (January 2018) initial sMerit airdrop that was given to accounts during Merit System kick-off (variable from profile to profile, based on rank at the time and activity during the prior year).

- sMerit obtained as a result of being merited (every 2 merits generate 1 sMerit).

Now the decaying idea has been around for some time, being the generalized idea that it could incentivize accounts to award it instead of “hoarding” it. The theory being, that one would rather award it than see it disappear by means of decay.

While the above may be true is some cases, you’d have to place very concise information in order for it to have a chance of being effective (i.e. 2 sMerits will decay tomorrow and 10 sMerits will decay in the coming 7 days). Would that sort of message move people to award more promptly in general terms? Perhaps to some degree, but you’d need to see the information easily before the process took place (i.e. without having to actually press the Merit link).
 
The other utility would be to eliminate all that initial airdropped sMerit which has not been used after 16 months. The initial sMerit airdrop was around 600K it seems, so a large part of it has not been awarded yet. One would say that 16 months is a pretty long time to do so, and that dormant accounts with airdropped sMerits may at some point be used to trade it through backchannels. Just how much of a risk that is, or how likely that it will be awarded righteously at some point is unknown. I personally would be done with it, but others favor keeping it.

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May 29, 2019, 02:37:44 PM
Last edit: May 30, 2019, 06:31:16 AM by thd26bct
 #17

It is unfair if smerits decayed, because people have rights to do anything they want with their smerits. They can hold them till the day they find something deserves to send their smerits to such posts.
Even their accounts, it does not mean that we should do anything to recover such smerits they hold and send them around to help other users. They obviously have rights (and should have) to burry all of their sendable merits if they don't want to send them around. If inactive, left users have rights to keep their sMerits, active users should have rights to hold their sMerits if they want.
Real users will send their smerits someday, if they will be actively in the forum.
Abusers will send their smerits out immediately when they feel risks with their bought/ sold accounts as way to get addition money.

Moreover, merits are everywhere in the forum, that has not been lack of merits/ smerits.
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May 30, 2019, 12:33:37 AM
 #18

Decaying smerits seems pointless to me. No one loses or gains from it. It keeps things pretty much as they are.

What should be done is the erasure of all airdropped merit. It's been over a year now. I see no reason why anyone should remain legendary having earned zero merit. Even though it's clear who's earned what, there are still useless high rank accounts benefiting despite their uselessness.

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May 30, 2019, 04:21:22 AM
 #19

Decaying sMerits is not good and forum will not achieve anything from decaying sMerits.
Following things might get done to use those sMerits
1. Share those sMerits to DT1 members, reason they know where and whom should merit send.

2. Create a feature which send those sMerits to all users equally with some restrictions, like those users who received more than 5-10-15-20 or more merits in last month or weeks.

Please check this thread, for all information, related to Bitcointalk, (List of iseful threads): https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5149708.0
DdmrDdmr
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May 30, 2019, 08:16:26 AM
Last edit: May 30, 2019, 02:47:37 PM by DdmrDdmr
 #20

<…>
Being on DT does not necessarily correlate to one’s capability to award sMerits, although there are a large number of Merit Sources on DT1.

It’s not a really a question of finding ways to redistribute “stale” sMerits in peoples accounts (specially, and per my criteria specifically, airdropped sMerits). They can either be left, erased, or decayed, but there is no urge to redistribute them. If there is an overall lack, the proper way to go should be thorough the Merit Sources, be it by replenishing a higher quantity or by adding more if necessary.

Edit:
Note-> Coincidently, on Meta there is now a thread which is on the topic of decaying or eliminating airdropped Merit (complementary to decaying sMerit discussed here). See Obliterate all Aridropped Merit Please @theymos ). Not a novel topic really, but with way more potential impact, since it would mean de-ranking the vast majority of accounts. Just on this principal alone, it doesn’t really seem (politically) feasible.

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