LocalBitcoins Cash-in-person trades removed?

[LeGaulois]

@figmentofmyass As for an alternative, Paxful is the only one I'm aware of. All others have a so low users base.

that's super depressing. the closest listing is several hundred miles away from me.

is there just no interest in p2p cash trading anymore? i'm hoping now that localbitcoins has axed the option that some traders will head to paxful. soon enough, paxful will probably remove the option too.

No dude, people are mainly interested to get money on their bank account. Add to that the fact that most people hold, trade or place a bet on an ICO... Me too I wish more people buy/sell with people face to face, no kyc/aml/taxes...
I was thinking if websites like Backpage could become an alternative for people who want to trade in person.

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[thehun]

Wow, this is really sad. But I can't really say it was unexpected. LBC recently started implementing KYC and in some cases (like mine) they were even making some very intrusive questions about source of funds and such. I had my crypto locked in there for over 2 weeks until it finally got released. Needless to say I stopped using LBC right after that happened (I did do some face to face trades without using the escrow with a few trusted members though, until now they were allowed to publish their phone # or Telegram contact so the deal could be closed over there).

[malevolent]

Wow, this is really sad. But I can't really say it was unexpected. LBC recently started implementing KYC and in some cases (like mine) they were even making some very intrusive questions about source of funds and such. I had my crypto locked in there for over 2 weeks until it finally got released.

Can you post what questions they asked you?

From what you're saying I don't think we'll be getting in-person cash trades back. They're acting like a regular exchange now.

[thehun]

Wow, this is really sad. But I can't really say it was unexpected. LBC recently started implementing KYC and in some cases (like mine) they were even making some very intrusive questions about source of funds and such. I had my crypto locked in there for over 2 weeks until it finally got released.

Can you post what questions they asked you?

From what you're saying I don't think we'll be getting in-person cash trades back. They're acting like a regular exchange now.

I opened a thread at the time, here it is:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4662474.0

This is the reply they sent me after I opened a ticket:



After I complied with these requests I got this one:



And finally after sending a proof of funds they unlocked the coins. I was lucky enough that I had received the BTC for professional services, but had I got them from mining activities, gambling or simply from a friend I would have had no chance of proving anything.

[shield132]

wow, it's the end of an era. localbitcoins p2p cash trades were the bomb a few years ago. i can't say specifically what is triggering this, but it seems like localbitcoins is just getting increasingly rigid with the AML/KYC stuff.

p2p cash trades were a way to avoid the escrow system and therefore KYC so i'm not surprised they've been removed. sucks though.

My current analysis of the legality is that it is highly illegal to sell bitcoins as a business in the US, and anyone attempting to do so should be very cautious.

not true. you need to register as an MSB and carefully comply with AML/KYC and currency reporting regulations though.

Not the end because you know, there will be always different and difficult ways because there is demand and supply, this both works in synergy against difficulties which are set baffle them.
Btw if anyone knows, were there reports of some crime/murders and robbing when trading bitcoin cash-in-person? Will be interesting to know if this was the reason of removing this option.

[malevolent]

And finally after sending a proof of funds they unlocked the coins. I was lucky enough that I had received the BTC for professional services, but had I got them from mining activities, gambling or simply from a friend I would have had no chance of proving anything.

I knew they sometimes blocked accounts they suspected of being hacked/hijacked, but this kind of intrusiveness, even before the relevant EU directive has come into law, is something I wouldn't have suspected them of engaging in.

Not the end because you know, there will be always different and difficult ways because there is demand and supply, this both works in synergy against difficulties which are set baffle them.
Btw if anyone knows, were there reports of some crime/murders and robbing when trading bitcoin cash-in-person? Will be interesting to know if this was the reason of removing this option.

This is the reason: https://twitter.com/LocalBitcoins/status/1135872083962081281

[squatter]

After I complied with these requests I got this one:



And finally after sending a proof of funds they unlocked the coins. I was lucky enough that I had received the BTC for professional services, but had I got them from mining activities, gambling or simply from a friend I would have had no chance of proving anything.

That's horrible. LocalBitcoins seems equivalent to Bitstamp now regarding AML/KYC -- and that says something. I don't trust these European companies anymore. I'm going to advise people against ever using LocalBitcoins because like you said, in many cases people won't be able to provide the necessary proof in these cases.

[countryfree]

This is suicide.

I haven't been using LocalBitcoins much, but only to make Cash-in-person trades. If it's no longer possible, I won't use LocalBitcoins any more.

I believe Hodl Hodl is their best successor, but they have very, very few trades... Anyone suggests another service? I live in Europe and my interest is limited to Cash-in-person trades.

[figmentofmyass]

I believe Hodl Hodl is their best successor, but they have very, very few trades... Anyone suggests another service? I live in Europe and my interest is limited to Cash-in-person trades.

there was a pretty comprehensive list mentioned earlier in the thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/b2wj6k/p2p_exchanges_eg_localbitcoins_bisq_hodlhodl/

nothing compares to localbitcoins though, not even close. the next biggest service offering in-person cash listings seems to be paxful. im in the USA and there's less than 10 listings (to sell for cash in person) across the entire country! a few more have popped since localbitcoins removed the option, but still......

[eternalgloom]

And finally after sending a proof of funds they unlocked the coins. I was lucky enough that I had received the BTC for professional services, but had I got them from mining activities, gambling or simply from a friend I would have had no chance of proving anything.

What the hell, how do you know that they wouldn't send them back if you'd gotten them from gambling or mining?
That seems a little bit worrisome, that they would keep the coins in those cases.

Damn, reason enough for me to not use LBC anymore.

[jvdp]

This is suicide.

I haven't been using LocalBitcoins much, but only to make Cash-in-person trades. If it's no longer possible, I won't use LocalBitcoins any more.

I believe Hodl Hodl is their best successor, but they have very, very few trades... Anyone suggests another service? I live in Europe and my interest is limited to Cash-in-person trades.

Why so? I believe you did not use the localbitcoins.com itseems.

They have signed with the european law agreement last itself and then to stay as a gentle trader on LBC you need to show the KYC details to them. I was using LBC around 2 years they are very much secured.

[LeGaulois]

This is suicide.

I haven't been using LocalBitcoins much, but only to make Cash-in-person trades. If it's no longer possible, I won't use LocalBitcoins any more.

I believe Hodl Hodl is their best successor, but they have very, very few trades... Anyone suggests another service? I live in Europe and my interest is limited to Cash-in-person trades.

Bitcoin.com launched its own local.bitcoin.com. I thought it was a joke at first, but not at all. I have visited the offers there and I can say that there are not many either, maybe because it is the beginning, but the site really lacks functionality too. Too simple UI, and if I'm correct, only Btrash can be used

@figmentofmyass
It's a matter of time before the same change appears on Paxful

@eternalgloom
Some services (wallets/exchanges mainly) don't allow their users to receive bitcoin from gambling/casino/poker/etc websites. In the example, Coinbase.

[squatter]

It's a matter of time before the same change appears on Paxful

I thought the same thing at first, but apparently this wasn't done in response to EU or US regulations. Localbitcoins said the removal of cash trades was done to comply with new Finnish regulations. They operate from Finland.

Paxful appears to operate from the US, so I don't see them removing cash trades based on this.

[malevolent]

I thought the same thing at first, but apparently this wasn't done in response to EU or US regulations. Localbitcoins said the removal of cash trades was done to comply with new Finnish regulations. They operate from Finland.

New Finnish regulations were enacted to comply with 5AMLD:

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A32018L0843
https://complyadvantage.com/blog/5mld-fifth-anti-money-laundering-directive/

[LeGaulois]

It's a matter of time before the same change appears on Paxful

I thought the same thing at first, but apparently this wasn't done in response to EU or US regulations. Localbitcoins said the removal of cash trades was done to comply with new Finnish regulations. They operate from Finland.

Paxful appears to operate from the US, so I don't see them removing cash trades based on this.

Finland is in Europe and all European countries obey to Europe regulations/directives and create their laws accordingly. Each law may be different since it's adapted to the country but the goal is the same: following EU directives, otherwise, the country can receive a fine from Brussels.

If Paxful is in The US. it may be prohibited to operate with Europe and therefore refuse or block certain functions to European citizens. In much the same way that some trading platforms prohibit access for American citizens (and sometimes just a few states in the US)

[illyiller]

It sounds like these services should consider segregating their EU customers from everyone else. Run a second platform and prohibit EU customers from the main one.

It's either that, or continue degrading services for everyone across the globe.

[malevolent]

It sounds like these services should consider segregating their EU customers from everyone else. Run a second platform and prohibit EU customers from the main one.
It's either that, or continue degrading services for everyone across the globe.

I wish they'd just move to a friendlier jurisdiction. What's their breaking point?

[countryfree]

I believe Hodl Hodl is their best successor, but they have very, very few trades... Anyone suggests another service? I live in Europe and my interest is limited to Cash-in-person trades.

there was a pretty comprehensive list mentioned earlier in the thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/b2wj6k/p2p_exchanges_eg_localbitcoins_bisq_hodlhodl/

nothing compares to localbitcoins though, not even close. the next biggest service offering in-person cash listings seems to be paxful. im in the USA and there's less than 10 listings (to sell for cash in person) across the entire country! a few more have popped since localbitcoins removed the option, but still......

Yes, I've seen that list, just wanted to know what others were thinking.

I've looked at Paxful, and when it comes to cash in person offers, it has only 4 of them in the whole of Europe... And they're not cheap!

I guess there's an opportunity. If I were sedentary living in a big city, I would become a trader, there are customers waiting.

[PrimeNumber7]

It sounds like these services should consider segregating their EU customers from everyone else. Run a second platform and prohibit EU customers from the main one.
It's either that, or continue degrading services for everyone across the globe.

I wish they'd just move to a friendlier jurisdiction. What's their breaking point?

It could be that in person cash trades are not very profitable. The cost and difficulty of mediating disputes for in person trades is probably much higher than online trades. All the scams involving in person cash trades doesn't do their reputation any good either.

[malevolent]

It could be that in person cash trades are not very profitable. The cost and difficulty of mediating disputes for in person trades is probably much higher than online trades. All the scams involving in person cash trades doesn't do their reputation any good either.

I would say it's the other way around, online someone can easily send you money from a hacked bank/neteller/pp/etc. account, or claim they got 'hacked', chargeback, etc. With cash things are a lot simpler, count the money, release the coins, bye.

LBC themselves admitted they had to remove local cash ads due to not being able to remain compliant with new regulations: https://twitter.com/LocalBitcoins/status/1135872083962081281