Liberated: LoyceV's Legendary Little Lightning Loans Lowered

[Timelord2067]

No. No. No. Thank you for the suggestion, but no.  I thought we were just testing out the lightning network.

If you want to test it out without touching your mainnet coins then install Eclair Mobile Testnet, grab some free testnet coins and buy yourself a coffee via the Lightning Network.

Thanks for the faucet link - I'd lost it quite a long time ago (it was empty at the time)


Am trying it again: (main-net)

Code:

lnbc1pw3spvspp5zhcz69a3jhq3emxphnvrtfnmytffvgm7w2mraqcxesr0n29v9lgsdq5235k6etvdaexgv3sxcmsxqr4rqrzjqwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7z89pqqq96gqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjqrmksz4xx46f4paayk4ym0fn09t3vzdwqs8v2wm4q0puf54ej07dp5m0lyy4ps76z2z3rukgxyceuah8kc936q45tva9ze0ul4xp44mcpy5dq0v

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[WhyFhy]

I stumbled upon this by accident, (I havn't been on Lending in ages)
LLLLL is almost a Tounge Twister! I'm really happy to see this service BTW! #StackingSats
I'm also stoked to see this many users playing with LN now!

[LoyceV]

Am trying it again: (main-net)

Code:

lnbc1pw3spvspp5zhcz69a3jhq3emxphnvrtfnmytffvgm7w2mraqcxesr0n29v9lgsdq5235k6etvdaexgv3sxcmsxqr4rqrzjqwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7z89pqqq96gqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjqrmksz4xx46f4paayk4ym0fn09t3vzdwqs8v2wm4q0puf54ej07dp5m0lyy4ps76z2z3rukgxyceuah8kc936q45tva9ze0ul4xp44mcpy5dq0v

It was night here, so your request expired (that's a serious shortcoming of using 6 hour expiration times on a global payment system!). But there's another problem: since last night, Eclair Wallet tells me there's a temporary node problem so I can't send anything. I'll wait if this gets resolved or I may need to force close the channel.

Update: I can send up to 4 satoshi, anything larger gives an error. I'm not sure why.

I've funded BlueWallet, it's now waiting for confirmation. It has an annoying bug on Android: when entering the BTC amount, the keyboard doesn't show a decimal dot. I had to copy/paste the amount to be able to send less than 1 Bitcoin.

[Timelord2067]

It was night here, so your request expired (that's a serious shortcoming of using 6 hour expiration times on a global payment system!). But there's another problem: since last night, Eclair Wallet tells me there's a temporary node problem so I can't send anything. I'll wait if this gets resolved or I may need to force close the channel.

Update: I can send up to 4 satoshi, anything larger gives an error. I'm not sure why.

I've funded BlueWallet, it's now waiting for confirmation. It has an annoying bug on Android: when entering the BTC amount, the keyboard doesn't show a decimal dot. I had to copy/paste the amount to be able to send less than 1 Bitcoin.

Damm it! You were online a moment ago!

Code:

lnbc1pw339a4pp5k29mr7j4rqm8x3hk3xfzu2t9jxzvy9aldtskcxv65crfg5ja29sqdqqxqr4rqrzjqwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7z89q5qqssqqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjq5kp53erns9t04y2mewfgk8nyafknv06a0jeefv95ptyylj8eku3hzcddmzeyppgl4lrr2acz2euqs7g67c0nagxq4qalamgzt5h7hksqh43msl

My channel (Node) seems OK, I think I have worked out that funds get shuffled about when a node is created sometimes the other end gains funds but the actual balance is showing in your wallet (when in fact it's not).

I guess it's in anticipation of the funds going out that they are "parked" elsewhere.

I'd say the funds don't go to miners, but to the "nodes" carrying the signal.  I might investigate seeing if I can keep a couple of connections open.  With more channels open, I'd say more funds are parked elsewhere.  Strange setup.  Plus there doesn't seem to be any actual way to send my funds out, I have to wait for a funds request to come in.

Code:

Re: Legendary LoyceV's Luscious, Loopy and Lip-smacking "Little Lightning Loans"

[Rath_]

-snip

Why don't you open a channel with LNchat's node? I reboot the server manually once a week so the downtime is negligible.

I guess it's in anticipation of the funds going out that they are "parked" elsewhere.

Coins are locked in a multi-signature address which is in control of both parties.

I'd say the funds don't go to miners, but to the "nodes" carrying the signal.  I might investigate seeing if I can keep a couple of connections open.  

The Lightning Network is an off-chain scaling solution so that's why miners don't participate in payments (except when closing and opening a channel). It works thanks to Hash Time Locked Contracts.

Plus there doesn't seem to be any actual way to send my funds out, I have to wait for a funds request to come in.

That's a known problem which has been already addressed. Sphinx solves it but it's available only to nodes which update to a specific branch.

[Timelord2067]

That pretty much answers my questions, thanks.

Why don't you open a channel with LNchat's node? Wink I reboot the server manually once a week so the downtime is negligible.

I'm working on it.

[LoyceV]

Damm it! You were online a moment ago!

Try again if you still want a 0.1 mBTC loan Just keep in mind I'm asleep during Amsterdam night time.

Code:

Re: Legendary LoyceV's Luscious, Loopy and Lip-smacking "Little Lightning Loans"

Lol, too cheesy

Why don't you open a channel with LNchat's node?

Judging by the Node Rank™, my current node (which works again) is much better connected.
If Eclair can't route a payment again, I now have a small amount in BlueWallet too. The main benefit: I could fund it with a low amount at low fee. The most annoying thing: it doesn't update balances realtime after a payment, I have to either refresh it or wait a bit.

I'm working on it.

I'd advise against taking a loan to take a Lightning Loan just to test LN

[bitmover]

I'm working on it.

I'd advise against taking a loan to take a Lightning Loan just to test LN

You won't be able to pay back the loan, because opening and closing channels costs miners fees , also txs to eclair wallet. So you will pay at least 4 transaction fees, and those open/close fees are quite obscure to me (spent much more than expected)

[Rath_]

-snip

Not to mention that he will also have to spend some coins in order to be able to receive payments. @Timelord2067 check out this website.

[Rath_]

@LoyceV it looks like that the problem of too high closing and opening fee has been addressed by Lightning Labs team. Users will be able to use either RBF or CPFP if the fee is too low. I will prepare a detailed post on the latest LND update tomorrow. Eclair Mobile is powered by Eclair's implementation of the Lightning Network so it won't be available for you anytime soon

[Timelord2067]

I'd advise against taking a loan to take a Lightning Loan just to test LN

You won't be able to pay back the loan, because opening and closing channels costs miners fees , also txs to eclair wallet. So you will pay at least 4 transaction fees, and those open/close fees are quite obscure to me (spent much more than expected)

Yeh I'm seeing there's a few coins that need to be locked away just to be able to transact on the Lightning Network.

Not to mention that he will also have to spend some coins in order to be able to receive payments. @Timelord2067 check out this website.

I'm looking at trying out testnet coins for a little while and will then try out the main-net version again.

Timelord2067's Trusted Testnet Thunder Timepayments?

Soon my precious...  

[LoyceV]

Bump! 10,000,000 milli-satoshis are waiting for a 7 day loan

[Timelord2067]

Trying again (I have inbound this time)

Code:

lnbc1pwj9h9wpp5g0rv83yfcjg5elzuejmdtxsefnlps6xzttj4gjgqkjhjkqy86yqsdqqxqr4rqrzjqwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7z89q5qqssqqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjq4whdkcv375dy5k4xr5ndpmer5ae9pyak7ssnuwtdl6ypawruttxycp6f6au8l54m3xma4gjtcmtu8vxqeep3sg8j44prk6awz4qx5mqp4y9km9

I figure you're trying to redistribute the incoming from just one node across many channels?

[LoyceV]

Code:

lnbc1pwj9h9wpp5g0rv83yfcjg5elzuejmdtxsefnlps6xzttj4gjgqkjhjkqy86yqsdqqxqr4rqrzjqwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7z89q5qqssqqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjq4whdkcv375dy5k4xr5ndpmer5ae9pyak7ssnuwtdl6ypawruttxycp6f6au8l54m3xma4gjtcmtu8vxqeep3sg8j44prk6awz4qx5mqp4y9km9

I used BlueWallet this time, and the payment is currently "in transit". I'm not sure how long it will stay that way, it may or may not complete.
BlueWallet used a whopping 100 sat fee.

I figure you're trying to redistribute the incoming from just one node across many channels?

That's something for the Lightning Network itself to figure out, but from what I've seen earlier, it didn't use multiple channels on my side.

[Rath_]

I figure you're trying to redistribute the incoming from just one node across many channels?

That's something for the Lightning Network itself to figure out, but from what I've seen earlier, it didn't use multiple channels on my side.

Payments can't be split automatically across multiple channels, yet. The only thing one can do is try sending a few smaller transactions but that might be too costly and take a lot of time.

[Timelord2067]

Payments can't be split automatically across multiple channels, yet. The only thing one can do is try sending a few smaller transactions but that might be too costly and take a lot of time.

On my test-net Eclair I have a few channels open with small amounts and a couple of bigger channel amounts.  I hadn't realised payments (outbound) wouldn't be split.


My main-net Eclair has one inbound good for BTC 0.01 so I should be able to receive your (LoyceV's) L-Loan, but alas, nothing as yet.


I'm being cautious about how much BTC I'm willing to commit to the Lightning Network as it seems to be one way in, but no way out.  Although the docs say it's good for traders, I'm figuring traders will want to cash out their acquired BTC and with channels being in or out traffic only, then they probably won't want to use it.  In saying that it'll probably become a closed system once enough bitcoin is committed to it.

Do you want to try sending me a request and I'll see if I can fill it from my end?

[LoyceV]

My main-net Eclair has one inbound good for BTC 0.01 so I should be able to receive your (LoyceV's) L-Loan, but alas, nothing as yet.

The payment that was "in transit" disappeared from BlueWallet without a trace (my balance wasn't reduced). I can only guess it couldn't find a channel.

Do you want to try sending me a request and I'll see if I can fill it from my end?

I could, but that would be the worst loan ever

[bitmover]

Electrum is adding Lightning Support in a few weeks.

Electrum’s founder Thomas Voegtlin told CoinDesk from the BIP001 blockchain event in Odessa, Ukraine, that work on the solution for sending lightning transactions with the Electrum wallet is now close to its official release.

While he declined to reveal a specific release date, Voegtlin said:

    “We’ve been doing this work for about a year in a separate branch [on GitHub] and we’ve reached the point when we are ready to merge it with our master branch. This is going to happen in the coming weeks until the end of July, and it means that the next major release will have lightning support.”

https://www.coindesk.com/electrum-wallet-is-adding-support-for-bitcoins-lightning-network

I think that a better wallet will certainly give us more transparency over the fees for creating/closing channels. I think that Eclair made a nice job because it is easy to use, but certainly it lacks control of the fees and transparency over the costs.

[Timelord2067]

Did you receive the micro tip a couple of days ago? 1 satoshi and 1/500th of a sat as the TX fee.

I now have 1.0002 sats more I can receive from others, so it looks like no lightning node receives any of the TX fees so the Lightning Network could possibly be a closed system?

[LoyceV]

Did you receive the micro tip a couple of days ago? 1 satoshi and 1/500th of a sat as the TX fee.

1 satoshi arrived at tippin.me I didn't check it earlier as nobody (else) uses it

I now have 1.0002 sats more I can receive from others, so it looks like no lightning node receives any of the TX fees so the Lightning Network could possibly be a closed system?

The Lightning Network is a closed system indeed. It seems your node charges 0.2% fee on all transactions, including small ones. For bigger transactions, other nodes in the channel might charge a fee too, so the node you're connected to pays them part of the fee.