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Author Topic: XEL - The Codable Decentralized Supercomputer - XEL.ORG  (Read 1992 times)
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June 02, 2019, 01:25:19 PM
Merited by NutMasterTardd (50), Bavaria (2), yussuf89 (1)
 #1













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June 02, 2019, 01:27:24 PM
 #2

Reserved for official announcemements

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June 02, 2019, 01:29:29 PM
 #3

Reserved for community announcements

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June 02, 2019, 01:38:16 PM
 #4

What's the reason for the re-ANN? Just a renewed bitcointalk presence?

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June 02, 2019, 01:46:59 PM
 #5

What's the reason for the re-ANN? Just a renewed bitcointalk presence?

We want a thread that team has access so we can maintain it proplerly. This account (XEL-project) will always belong to the development team even if current team dissapear. First ANN thread belong to Lanister and second thread to ImI. As a result of this, we were never able to make any changes by ourselves. I hope this makes sense.

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June 02, 2019, 01:57:47 PM
 #6

Is there a renewed roadmap too?

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June 02, 2019, 02:02:07 PM
 #7

What's the reason for the re-ANN? Just a renewed bitcointalk presence?

We want a thread that team has access so we can maintain it proplerly. This account (XEL-project) will always belong to the development team even if current team dissapear. First ANN thread belong to Lanister and second thread to ImI. As a result of this, we were never able to make any changes by ourselves. I hope this makes sense.

Yeah it does make sense. Hope you guys manage to keep going and get the project working as intended



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June 02, 2019, 02:10:53 PM
 #8

Is there a renewed roadmap too?

At the moment no. Our human resources are very limited, we are currently less than half a dousin people that try to do anything. You can understand this is becoming really hard to maintain. More people have express their willing to help. We need more experienced people though to give developers more space to do what really matters , coding .

What's the reason for the re-ANN? Just a renewed bitcointalk presence?

We want a thread that team has access so we can maintain it proplerly. This account (XEL-project) will always belong to the development team even if current team dissapear. First ANN thread belong to Lanister and second thread to ImI. As a result of this, we were never able to make any changes by ourselves. I hope this makes sense.

Yeah it does make sense. Hope you guys manage to keep going and get the project working as intended

We will do our best at least Smiley. We will need more help from the community though.

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June 02, 2019, 02:20:38 PM
 #9

Is there a renewed roadmap too?
At the moment no. Our human resources are very limited, we are currently less than half a dousin people that try to do anything. You can understand this is becoming really hard to maintain. More people have express their willing to help. We need more experienced people though to give developers more space to do what really matters , coding .

Totally understand you.
If you list things that you need help with, the community might respond.
I'll jump in your discord next week and see if i can help you in any way

Either way, i love your project, i hope you succeed 👍👍

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June 02, 2019, 02:23:47 PM
 #10

Have any promotion campaign? For example airdrop and bounty?

Or why make re Ann?
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June 02, 2019, 02:39:07 PM
 #11

Reserved
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June 02, 2019, 02:51:47 PM
 #12

Have any promotion campaign? For example airdrop and bounty?

Or why make re Ann?

There is no promotion campaign set as we don't have funds for marketing. Any funds we have or will get will be used for developing.
Airdrop neither, distribution was made years ago.
There is currently a bounty, https://twitter.com/xel_community/status/1133575762353819649. Help us with Travelling Salesman Problem and claim 500$.
About re Ann just check some posts above.


Is there a renewed roadmap too?
At the moment no. Our human resources are very limited, we are currently less than half a dousin people that try to do anything. You can understand this is becoming really hard to maintain. More people have express their willing to help. We need more experienced people though to give developers more space to do what really matters , coding .


Totally understand you.
If you list things that you need help with, the community might respond.
I'll jump in your discord next week and see if i can help you in any way

Either way, i love your project, i hope you succeed 👍👍

We have made announcements in the past about what positions we need to be filled. There is a section in discord #get-involved , where people can express their willing to help and what's their expertise.
Well done, look forward to getting better and better.   xel  mark Smiley Smiley Smiley

Smiley

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June 02, 2019, 02:58:28 PM
 #13

What's the reason for the re-ANN? Just a renewed bitcointalk presence?

We want a thread that team has access so we can maintain it proplerly. This account (XEL-project) will always belong to the development team even if current team dissapear. First ANN thread belong to Lanister and second thread to ImI. As a result of this, we were never able to make any changes by ourselves. I hope this makes sense.

Thanks for the clarifications. The point of course is the main thing is not to lose access to this account.
And then you have to open a new topic, and so on to infinity.
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June 02, 2019, 03:02:19 PM
 #14

This project seems dead to me, not only XEL but all the projects that comes out before 2017 looking into Supercomputer space, let's wait and see what the team has in store for us, because now they need to be more visible to me and even trading on Bittrex is drying out and no real interest in the token

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June 02, 2019, 03:11:03 PM
 #15

Did EK leave the XEL team?

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June 02, 2019, 03:39:37 PM
Last edit: June 02, 2019, 04:07:42 PM by XEL-project
 #16

What's the reason for the re-ANN? Just a renewed bitcointalk presence?
We want a thread that team has access so we can maintain it proplerly. This account (XEL-project) will always belong to the development team even if current team dissapear. First ANN thread belong to Lanister and second thread to ImI. As a result of this, we were never able to make any changes by ourselves. I hope this makes sense.
Thanks for the clarifications. The point of course is the main thing is not to lose access to this account.
And then you have to open a new topic, and so on to infinity.

Seems you didn't get the point, all the previous ANN's were made by personal accounts. This is the first time that ANN is made by an official account that belongs to the team. XEL was always a decentralised open source project. There was no marketing team or leadership or roadmap or .... Many members tried to help back then by creating accounts about the project (bitcointalk, reddit, twitter etc). So we came up to a point where all the "official" accounts were created by different persons without giving the credentials while devs at that time were doing what they knew to do best. We are trying to change this and have things organized.

This project seems dead to me, not only XEL but all the projects that comes out before 2017 looking into Supercomputer space, let's wait and see what the team has in store for us, because now they need to be more visible to me and even trading on Bittrex is drying out and no real interest in the token

I can assure you we are not dead, we move slowly though. Take a look at our github https://github.com/xel-software

Did EK leave the XEL team?

EK is still in the team. You can read more in our May medium update, look at state of devs part https://medium.com/@xelproject/xel-update-may-2019-68322e488627

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June 02, 2019, 05:13:11 PM
 #17

In discord you guys announced few weeks back that some news is coming, was that this new announcement or its still coming?
Don’t see clear ways to tell people how to participate in network and what is future direction

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June 02, 2019, 08:30:02 PM
 #18

In discord you guys announced few weeks back that some news is coming, was that this new announcement or its still coming?
Don’t see clear ways to tell people how to participate in network and what is future direction

At that time we didn't had access to the xel.org website and domain and project was left without official website for some long . Our announcement had to do with the new website which is for us the first step to get more people know about XEL .
We need developers or techy people willing to offer some of their free time to help organizing in some areas (documentation, ideas and more ). Only a few pairs of eyes and hands can't be anywhere. 

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June 04, 2019, 04:36:11 AM
 #19

What's the reason for the re-ANN? Just a renewed bitcointalk presence?

Because after lannister / EK disappeared, they need to create a 3rd bct thread... amazing.  Roll Eyes
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June 04, 2019, 01:36:32 PM
 #20

What's the reason for the re-ANN? Just a renewed bitcointalk presence?

Because after lannister / EK disappeared, they need to create a 3rd bct thread... amazing.  Roll Eyes

I will not say much, i think it's better to start reading what people write and than express your thoughts. EK is still around and he was not the author of the second ANN thread , ImI was.
You have gain a good amount from XEL, you were in for the money and you got it, please now let the people who love XEL do what they have to do.

I sold most of my coins at 20k on that last run up, but am buying under 10k as I've been keeping a close eye on the top 15 wallets.  Very steady, some have dumped 3-5% and some slowly keep growing.  If the devs truely are working and will release a product, they will move the price again... UP.    Steady Hands win the race here.

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June 05, 2019, 06:09:43 AM
 #21

No need to do this,anyway he is a winner, although do nothing for community. More should be said is welcome back bro, this is a cool project, and everyone is welcome here. Wink Wink Wink Wink

Everyone with good will is welcome. We are here to help in everything regarding XEL. Bitter comments will get proper answers Smiley.

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June 07, 2019, 04:21:05 PM
 #22

Xel needs inflation, the key to making the network more dynamic. Do you have any plans? Grin Grin Grin

Do you imply the network is not dynamic enough currently? Is the transaction speed slow for your needs?  Roll Eyes

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June 08, 2019, 10:58:24 AM
 #23

I mean the community has no money now. In this way, the community will be rich and the nodes are more active. Wink Wink

There are hundreds (if not thousands) of abandoned and forgotten coins which had inflation (by staking or by mining). Inflation by itself didn't make their communities rich at all.
There is something different which makes some crypto projects thrive - and that *something* is definitely not the inflation Smiley

But in general I get your point - staking inflation could create some incentive to stake the coins, and so to make the network stronger. I believe this question might be reconsidered at some point in the future. However for now adding inflation will change absolutely nothing. There are so many more important things to achieve here...

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June 11, 2019, 06:36:08 PM
 #24

Hi;

In line with Bittrex's decision last Friday, XEL seems to have lost the only stock exchange available to US citizens. Do you have a new stock market plan?

Kind regards

https://bittrex.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360028996652-Market-Availability-Changes-for-U-S-Customers-6-21-19

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June 13, 2019, 03:35:47 PM
Last edit: June 13, 2019, 09:41:23 PM by XEL-project
 #25

Hi;

In line with Bittrex's decision last Friday, XEL seems to have lost the only stock exchange available to US citizens. Do you have a new stock market plan?

Kind regards

https://bittrex.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360028996652-Market-Availability-Changes-for-U-S-Customers-6-21-19

We are in discussions with people who have experience in the field of exchanges and we ask for their advice. It was unpredictable for the team and we are hoping that we will be able to find some alternative in the near future. Nothing is certain though as most exchanges need listing fees and we can offer them almost nothing .
However, if someone from the U.S. wants to have a stake in XEL he can always keep his coins in one of the wallets. Also if forging is enabled it will be good for the network.

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June 13, 2019, 09:48:39 PM
 #26


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June 14, 2019, 03:31:23 AM
 #27

Is there a forging pool, or a way to delegate coins to another node?
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June 14, 2019, 09:32:38 AM
 #28

Is there a forging pool, or a way to delegate coins to another node?

No, unfortunately our blockchain doesn't support leasing balances. Only way to be available to forge is having more than 1000 XEL in a wallet that you control and push forging button. We can read our wiki https://wiki.xel.org/forging.
Detail : If you forge through webwallet there is no need to have the wallet open.

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June 16, 2019, 11:51:30 PM
 #29

It's not enough, but progress in XEL is being made. We'll probably have to wait a few more semesters before good things.
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June 18, 2019, 09:30:23 AM
 #30

The powerful but pretty unreasonable administrative enforcement power of the United States has always hurt Americans, all the world’s exchanges have rejected Americans. Why do Americans not rise up to resist their government?
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June 18, 2019, 02:04:18 PM
 #31

Is there a forging pool, or a way to delegate coins to another node?

No, unfortunately our blockchain doesn't support leasing balances. Only way to be available to forge is having more than 1000 XEL in a wallet that you control and push forging button. We can read our wiki https://wiki.xel.org/forging.
Detail : If you forge through webwallet there is no need to have the wallet open.

What is the link to the webwallet ?!
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June 18, 2019, 07:15:48 PM
 #32

Is there a forging pool, or a way to delegate coins to another node?

No, unfortunately our blockchain doesn't support leasing balances. Only way to be available to forge is having more than 1000 XEL in a wallet that you control and push forging button. We can read our wiki https://wiki.xel.org/forging.
Detail : If you forge through webwallet there is no need to have the wallet open.

What is the link to the webwallet ?!

https://wallet.xel.org/index.html

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July 24, 2019, 07:15:43 PM
 #33

Any updates on new team?
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September 20, 2019, 01:29:32 PM
 #34

130 sat...

Bittrex could delist XEL soon.
Any ideas? Dump?

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October 21, 2019, 07:57:27 AM
 #35

Why is it so quiet here? It seems very strange, cause it's the newest thread I could find. Is there any news?
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December 25, 2019, 10:02:04 PM
 #36

The website xel.org is nice and up and running. We only need some devs, scientist and some cool ideas. This project is way undervalued right now. As I can see now, people are becoming whales because of the low price.

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January 06, 2020, 11:04:53 AM
 #37

I think the project has been dropped so far.
I used to follow it a lot.

The owner raised around 650BTC.  I guess he is gone to retire.
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January 19, 2020, 11:57:02 AM
 #38

@Xel project, what's going on with Xel development?
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February 25, 2020, 12:15:24 PM
 #39

Hi!

We just saw that the XEL wallet is back online. We would like to point our recipe node to it to make XEL available again in project hybrix and its wallet Internet of Coins. Traffic will be limited, since hybrix employs an advanced caching mechanism, so the pressure on your node will be limited.

Please let us know if you would like XEL to be available this way to other users and portfolio holders.

Cheers, and let's not leave this (r)evolution!
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April 10, 2020, 03:33:56 PM
 #40

Is the lite wallet working OK?
I tried sending some they have not confirmed for hours
Wallet complains that I might be in a fork because base target is too high
Bittrex wallet has not updated block for 785 minutes

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April 10, 2020, 08:47:51 PM
 #41

Mine shows block 687929 from Apr 10 11AM. Seconds passed since last block are more than 48600 (13.5 hours). 48 peers. Not sure if it is stuck on the same block as yours.

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April 11, 2020, 06:06:18 AM
 #42

Funds arrived this morning. I guess the network was frozen for hours

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April 18, 2020, 04:12:48 AM
 #43

Is this project totally dead or what? Discord is silent, Twitter as well. Most of the repositories on GitHub haven't been updated for almost a year... It's traded only on Bittrex and Upbit, but I wouldn't be surprised if they decided to delist it  Sad
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August 27, 2020, 10:31:56 AM
 #44

Is this project totally dead or what? Discord is silent, Twitter as well. Most of the repositories on GitHub haven't been updated for almost a year... It's traded only on Bittrex and Upbit, but I wouldn't be surprised if they decided to delist it  Sad

The project isn't dead but it seems the community doesn't support it . Maybe a delisting will make community wake up ( or not ) .

 
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February 17, 2021, 07:04:31 PM
 #45

Is this project totally dead or what? Discord is silent, Twitter as well. Most of the repositories on GitHub haven't been updated for almost a year... It's traded only on Bittrex and Upbit, but I wouldn't be surprised if they decided to delist it  Sad

The project isn't dead but it seems the community doesn't support it . Maybe a delisting will make community wake up ( or not ) .
i think they dont need to wake up. those are us that have to wake up. cos the community made their money and ran away as always in any shitcoin.

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February 17, 2021, 09:35:11 PM
 #46

I usually follow Discord because there are some with powers on Github.
The good thing is that we still have 10-11 peers.
Have you seen that the Bittrex wallet still has more than 39 MM XEL, and that almost every day there are transfers, despite the fact that the withdrawal period ended 2 months ago?

https://explorer.xel.org/address/XEL-AQVJ-PPCK-QJYJ-8T65V/

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February 22, 2021, 07:39:21 PM
 #47

Have you seen that the Bittrex wallet still has more than 39 MM XEL, and that almost every day there are transfers, despite the fact that the withdrawal period ended 2 months ago?

https://explorer.xel.org/address/XEL-AQVJ-PPCK-QJYJ-8T65V/

As far as I understand, the XEL wallet is not removed from Bittrex, and there was no withdrawal period announced. They only removed the market, but kept the wallet open until further notice. Typically they send notifications when removing any coin's wallet. I did not get any such notification regarding the XEL wallet yet.

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February 22, 2021, 10:10:37 PM
 #48

Have you seen that the Bittrex wallet still has more than 39 MM XEL, and that almost every day there are transfers, despite the fact that the withdrawal period ended 2 months ago?

https://explorer.xel.org/address/XEL-AQVJ-PPCK-QJYJ-8T65V/

As far as I understand, the XEL wallet is not removed from Bittrex, and there was no withdrawal period announced. They only removed the market, but kept the wallet open until further notice. Typically they send notifications when removing any coin's wallet. I did not get any such notification regarding the XEL wallet yet.

Thank you very much for the clarification.
In the notice that bittrex made on the occasion of the exit of XEL and others, they indicated that there was a month or less to withdraw.

https://bittrexglobal.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360017409679-Pending-Market-Removals-11-20-2020

Is it normal for Bittrex to keep the XEL wallet? does it with others? I think that if an exchange makes this decision, I do not understand that it maintains this support longer than usual.

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February 22, 2021, 10:33:50 PM
Merited by josegines (1)
 #49

Have you seen that the Bittrex wallet still has more than 39 MM XEL, and that almost every day there are transfers, despite the fact that the withdrawal period ended 2 months ago?

https://explorer.xel.org/address/XEL-AQVJ-PPCK-QJYJ-8T65V/

As far as I understand, the XEL wallet is not removed from Bittrex, and there was no withdrawal period announced. They only removed the market, but kept the wallet open until further notice. Typically they send notifications when removing any coin's wallet. I did not get any such notification regarding the XEL wallet yet.

Thank you very much for the clarification.
In the notice that bittrex made on the occasion of the exit of XEL and others, they indicated that there was a month or less to withdraw.

https://bittrexglobal.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360017409679-Pending-Market-Removals-11-20-2020

Is it normal for Bittrex to keep the XEL wallet? does it with others? I think that if an exchange makes this decision, I do not understand that it maintains this support longer than usual.

Yes, indeed, there is a withdrawal warning in the "Token Withdrawal After Delisting" of the announcement you referred too. And formally Bittrex can remove the wallet at any moment, and refer all annoyed customers to that warning... But practically I have noticed they try to be more cautios, and provide their customers with appropriate wallet removal email warnings - sometimes 2-3 times before actually removing wallet. Probably they try to avoid unnecessary complications, which will surely arise if they don't provide enough warnings before removing the wallet (as this could bring to a loss of funds belonging to a customer).

Not only XEL wallet is still online. I have another coin in the same list, which still has active wallet on Bittrex, despite market being delisted for few months already. As to the reasons of this behavior from Bittrex, I can think of few reasons, but I have no idea whether any of them is correct...

One thing is pretty clear - even if they didn't delist those wallets yet, they are going to do that sooner or later, unless any of the delisted projects gains REAL traction, which is unlikely.

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February 23, 2021, 05:58:44 PM
 #50



Yes, indeed, there is a withdrawal warning in the "Token Withdrawal After Delisting" of the announcement you referred too. And formally Bittrex can remove the wallet at any moment, and refer all annoyed customers to that warning... But practically I have noticed they try to be more cautios, and provide their customers with appropriate wallet removal email warnings - sometimes 2-3 times before actually removing wallet. Probably they try to avoid unnecessary complications, which will surely arise if they don't provide enough warnings before removing the wallet (as this could bring to a loss of funds belonging to a customer).

Not only XEL wallet is still online. I have another coin in the same list, which still has active wallet on Bittrex, despite market being delisted for few months already. As to the reasons of this behavior from Bittrex, I can think of few reasons, but I have no idea whether any of them is correct...

One thing is pretty clear - even if they didn't delist those wallets yet, they are going to do that sooner or later, unless any of the delisted projects gains REAL traction, which is unlikely.

Do you have any opinion about the possibility of resuscitating the project or do you think that we will not see the conditions of 2017 again, in which without having a defined team either, several people agreed to do things?

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February 23, 2021, 08:52:10 PM
 #51

Coin looks as a newbody with untracked market data. I knows a few projects, which was created in 2017-18. What is the privilege of this idea over anothers?
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February 23, 2021, 09:02:11 PM
 #52

-

Do you have any opinion about the possibility of resuscitating the project or do you think that we will not see the conditions of 2017 again, in which without having a defined team either, several people agreed to do things?

Coin looks as a newbody with untracked market data. I knows a few projects, which was created in 2017-18. What is the privilege of this idea over anothers?


the site is still up but the dev was last online last year. no updates, no nothing. so it seems they are abandoning this project and dont think it is a smart move to revive the project. if you want to revive this, just create your own, at least the control of site and other important stuffs are yours. another one bites the dust.
but they made an update on their git last 26 days ago. does it mean they are still working on this project?


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cfif
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February 24, 2021, 06:45:08 PM
 #53

-

Do you have any opinion about the possibility of resuscitating the project or do you think that we will not see the conditions of 2017 again, in which without having a defined team either, several people agreed to do things?

Coin looks as a newbody with untracked market data. I knows a few projects, which was created in 2017-18. What is the privilege of this idea over anothers?


the site is still up but the dev was last online last year. no updates, no nothing. so it seems they are abandoning this project and dont think it is a smart move to revive the project. if you want to revive this, just create your own, at least the control of site and other important stuffs are yours. another one bites the dust.
but they made an update on their git last 26 days ago. does it mean they are still working on this project?

Maybe you are right. It looks as a dead project. Marketcap is shows nothing, it is a best indicator of live. 
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February 24, 2021, 10:46:44 PM
Last edit: February 24, 2021, 11:21:34 PM by drays
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 #54



Yes, indeed, there is a withdrawal warning in the "Token Withdrawal After Delisting" of the announcement you referred too. And formally Bittrex can remove the wallet at any moment, and refer all annoyed customers to that warning... But practically I have noticed they try to be more cautios, and provide their customers with appropriate wallet removal email warnings - sometimes 2-3 times before actually removing wallet. Probably they try to avoid unnecessary complications, which will surely arise if they don't provide enough warnings before removing the wallet (as this could bring to a loss of funds belonging to a customer).

Not only XEL wallet is still online. I have another coin in the same list, which still has active wallet on Bittrex, despite market being delisted for few months already. As to the reasons of this behavior from Bittrex, I can think of few reasons, but I have no idea whether any of them is correct...

One thing is pretty clear - even if they didn't delist those wallets yet, they are going to do that sooner or later, unless any of the delisted projects gains REAL traction, which is unlikely.

Do you have any opinion about the possibility of resuscitating the project or do you think that we will not see the conditions of 2017 again, in which without having a defined team either, several people agreed to do things?

Well, as it is known, everyone has an opinion Smiley. I don't think my opinion matters a lot in this topic.

The conditions you speak about, and very rare. Having a world-class developer jumping in and working on some project without any financial support and with limited interest from community, is something close to a miracle in our world. Miracles happen, but somebody should put a lot of talent and energy for them to happen. Namely to attract good developers and try to revive/recreate the community. Do you see anybody who is going to do that?

To answer to your question in short - no, I do not think we'll have this project revived. Especially now, when it has lost the only exchange, and there is zero financial interest in reviving it. As there is no financial interest, there is practically zero chance any solid developer will join here for long (save for the 'miracle' option). The only good fit for such a project (and a really good fit) - is to be run as a part of a training program in computer science class in universities. So if anyone has any connection to university (professor or student) - step up!

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February 26, 2021, 01:33:55 PM
Last edit: February 26, 2021, 01:53:18 PM by Ismail123456
 #55

In my opinion there is basically no chance that this project will be revived.

From the point of view of computer science (CS), there is no use for this approach. In theoretical CS we learn how to classify problems in terms of their computational complexity (P, NP, EXP, NEXP,...). We think that some problems in NP are intractable (but we don't know for sure).
Tractable problems (the ones in P) can be solved in reasonable time, while intractable problems cannot be solved in reasonable time in general, no matter how much computational power you throw at those problems (not considering quantum computing). In general there is no hope in trying to solve an intractable problem by guessing, which is what this project is aiming at.
In short: From the point of view of computer science, this is a hopeless approach.
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February 26, 2021, 05:35:40 PM
 #56

In my opinion there is basically no chance that this project will be revived.

From the point of view of computer science (CS), there is no use for this approach. In theoretical CS we learn how to classify problems in terms of their computational complexity (P, NP, EXP, NEXP,...). We think that some problems in NP are intractable (but we don't know for sure).
Tractable problems (the ones in P) can be solved in reasonable time, while intractable problems cannot be solved in reasonable time in general, no matter how much computational power you throw at those problems (not considering quantum computing). In general there is no hope in trying to solve an intractable problem by guessing, which is what this project is aiming at.
In short: From the point of view of computer science, this is a hopeless approach.

Ismail, what makes think this project is aimed at resolution of intractable problems by guessing? Huh

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February 26, 2021, 08:04:48 PM
 #57

Ismail, what makes think this project is aimed at resolution of intractable problems by guessing? Huh
Maybe I misunderstood something.
What are the types of problems the project aims to solve? You mentioned computer science class in universities, what class could that be?
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February 28, 2021, 07:56:21 PM
Merited by josegines (1)
 #58

Ismail, what makes think this project is aimed at resolution of intractable problems by guessing? Huh
Maybe I misunderstood something.
What are the types of problems the project aims to solve? You mentioned computer science class in universities, what class could that be?

I wouldn't say I have really good understanding of XEL project's capabilities, but I would put it this way: it can work on tasks which can be programmed in ePL language, which is a bit simplified variant of either Java or C-like language (https://docs.xel.org/learn-epl.html). So basically, if I understand it correctly, if you can code a task on Java, you can probably run it on XEL network using all the computers connected to it, which provide you a computational resource.

However, when speaking about possibility to use the project as a part of training program in computer science class, I meant the project itself, not its capabilities (though they could be used too, if project is polished good enough, and all the necessary features added). I mean something like a distributed computing class, where students can take the code of a computation client in https://github.com/xel-software, examine that, learn it, add missing functionality, fix bugs, and maintain a XEL network. This could provide them with first-hand experience with a working distributed computing solution.

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March 01, 2021, 03:17:58 PM
 #59

Ismail, what makes think this project is aimed at resolution of intractable problems by guessing? Huh
Maybe I misunderstood something.
What are the types of problems the project aims to solve? You mentioned computer science class in universities, what class could that be?

I wouldn't say I have really good understanding of XEL project's capabilities, but I would put it this way: it can work on tasks which can be programmed in ePL language, which is a bit simplified variant of either Java or C-like language (https://docs.xel.org/learn-epl.html). So basically, if I understand it correctly, if you can code a task on Java, you can probably run it on XEL network using all the computers connected to it, which provide you a computational resource.

However, when speaking about possibility to use the project as a part of training program in computer science class, I meant the project itself, not its capabilities (though they could be used too, if project is polished good enough, and all the necessary features added). I mean something like a distributed computing class, where students can take the code of a computation client in https://github.com/xel-software, examine that, learn it, add missing functionality, fix bugs, and maintain a XEL network. This could provide them with first-hand experience with a working distributed computing solution.

First, ePL doesn't allow for any data structure nor does it has objects. Java is object oriented. You can't compare it with ePL.
Second, the solution of a problem you want to solve by XEL has to be encoded in such a way that one can verify if a given random number is a solution of the problem. XEL works by parallel random guessing, that's how it is.
Third, if you want to use ePL to solve a problem you will most likely need an intermediate step to encode the problem in ePL (for the first two reasons).

I have the impression that no one of the people who actually hold some XEL coins have the slightest understanding of XEL or/and computer science. This is another reason why I think that the project is lost forever without any chance to be revived.
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March 04, 2021, 09:06:18 PM
Last edit: March 07, 2021, 05:56:29 PM by drays
 #60

Well... thanks for your input. I admit (actually I never said the opposite) indeed this area is outside of what I would describe as the scope of my main interests... In other words, its not what I would voluntarily spend my free time on Smiley. I managed to avoid reading  XEL documentation for several years now, but the credit goes to you - you made me read it now Smiley

First, ePL doesn't allow for any data structure nor does it has objects. Java is object oriented. You can't compare it with ePL.
Yep, my bad, I somehow had Ethereum in mind when writing about Java. This one is far from Java, but not only because Java is object-oriented. Object-orientation is more of a approach to a programming, than solely a feature of a language. One can easily write object-oriented code in C, despite the fact that C doesn't have explicit constructs for object-oriented programming; like its done in Linux kernel in particular. Similarly, data structures can be easily emulated, if we have an ability to actually name variables. Though of course all this doesn't change the fact that ePL is incomparably less powerful than Java or C, so I agree, I should have been more careful in wording. Sorry for that.

Second, the solution of a problem you want to solve by XEL has to be encoded in such a way that one can verify if a given random number is a solution of the problem. XEL works by parallel random guessing, that's how it is.
Thats something new to me, I had different impression. The example used in the doc is surely pointing to ePL usage the way you described - solely by checking if a random number is a solution to a problem; however I am not yet sure it cannot be used in a different way. Let me read the doc first...

Third, if you want to use ePL to solve a problem you will most likely need an intermediate step to encode the problem in ePL (for the first two reasons).
Sure, that step is needed. But that shouldn't be a big issue, if the task is indeed solvable by the means ePL provides.

I have the impression that no one of the people who actually hold some XEL coins have the slightest understanding of XEL or/and computer science. This is another reason why I think that the project is lost forever without any chance to be revived.
I wouldn't generalize so much... After all, you are here and probably hold some XEL coins; if not - I am ready to send you some, so we'll have a XEL holder with some understanding of XEL or/and computer science Smiley. Jokes aside, some (few) definitely have some knowledge, but no interest in XEL specifically. Unfortunately, this place is mostly inhabited by traders and speculators, rather than people who have genuine interest, and moreover, a working knowledge in this technology. In general, I suppose the huge number of different altcoin projects contribute to the fact that it is not attractive for someone to focus on a single project, by spending considerable time to read and dive deep into details, while new projects and opportunities pop all the time. At least it is/was true regarding myslef, in particular; though I cannot be sure about others. The result is what we have now, and I wrote that a bit earlier - this project has almost zero chances to survive in this environment.

to be continued... still reading the ePL doc... could take a while with my English and lack of free time...

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March 07, 2021, 12:38:15 AM
 #61

EK WE NEED YOU!   Please come back and revive this beauty.  I'll buy you a tesla.
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March 08, 2021, 10:38:57 PM
Last edit: April 11, 2021, 11:16:06 PM by drays
Merited by josegines (1)
 #62

Of course, it would be great if EK suddenly returns, and syclone buys him a tesla or two...

Apart of this... Some unrelated thoughts below.

Finished reading some of the ePL docs. They are pretty good btw.

In general, it looks like not many people (if any) have read those docs, as though the doc (for example https://docs.xel.org/learn-epl.html) is quite good and is written pretty well, it clearly lacks proofreading. It contains big number of typos, some mistakes, and some (though small) parts are not understandable, probably they are edited in a hurry. All this shows the real interest in the project was never high among followers... There were people who spent their time writing a good doc, but no people to spend some time to read it and provide feedback :/

Anyway, after spending some more time thinking on the topic, I'll try to address some of the issues Ismail123456 raised.

In my opinion there is basically no chance that this project will be revived.

From the point of view of computer science (CS), there is no use for this approach. In theoretical CS we learn how to classify problems in terms of their computational complexity (P, NP, EXP, NEXP,...). We think that some problems in NP are intractable (but we don't know for sure).
Tractable problems (the ones in P) can be solved in reasonable time, while intractable problems cannot be solved in reasonable time in general, no matter how much computational power you throw at those problems (not considering quantum computing). In general there is no hope in trying to solve an intractable problem by guessing, which is what this project is aiming at.
In short: From the point of view of computer science, this is a hopeless approach.

(1) First of all, the expression "In general there is no hope in trying to solve an intractable problem by guessing" is not correct. There is definitely a hope to solve intractable problem by guessing, but there is no guarantee it will be solved in polynomial (reasonable) time. So the conclusion "From the point of view of computer science, this is a hopeless approach." is not correct as well. It is not hopeless approach at all, it is just an approach which doesn't provide guarantee of solution.

The practice shows that though even if in general case the solution cannot be guaranteed, in many (and very often - in most of) practical cases solution can be quite easily found either by so called 'guessing', by brute force, or exhaustive search, or by other selective search methods.

One example from practice Smiley Long time ago when still learning in university, I was offered a task to develop a program to automate the timetable generation for the several university departments. Usually the process of compiling the schedule takes a lot of time from department management, so the higher management decided automating it could save valuable resources of department staff. This is a typical JSP (Job shop scheduling problem), and of course I was told by our computer science experts, who were proficient on JSP theory (and in general were much better in theory than practice) that task to generate optimal timetable is intractable and in general case has no solution. Well, but who cares about general case? I was well aware that this task was successfully completed by university staff two times per year for many years, and though it was a bit time consuming, it was perfectly solvable. So long story short, I developed that program, and it worked very well. It was generating a timetable by 'directed' search, starting from the seemingly the most promising variants. To get a more or less acceptable solution it needed to work just under one minute, but the longer it worked, the better timetable it generated. Now I recall that this task is an ideal task for solving with XEL (with some needed enhancements in storage capacity, sure).

(2) Secondly, some study of the documentation show this project is not solely aiming at solution of a problem by guessing. Yes, the example in the doc finds prime numbers by guessing and testing, but this is not the only use. Except random guessing, this approach is good for brute-force search, and for some other search strategies too.

(3) Thirdly, though I didn't work in a scientific research for very long time, and so I do not know all the cases where the XEL's approach could be applicable, I see at least one case where XEL's capabilities fit very well: those are the problems solvable by a whole class of methods - Monte Carlo ones (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monte_Carlo_method). In my opinion (as a person, who personally used this method for problem solution in computational physics), it is a perfect match. You can perfectly parallelize such tasks, run them on computers of very different capacities, and bring the results together then. The more samples you generate and analyze, the more precise your solution will be.

In short, in my humble opinion - though intractable problems are not solvable for general case, in most practical cases solution can be found. And random guessing is by far not the only way this platform could be used.
I find this approach far from being hopeless, and platform far from being unusable. It just needs to be used correctly; for right set of tasks. And of course, it needs people willing to work on it, not purely speculate...

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March 23, 2021, 09:13:32 AM
 #63

It is true that there has been no movement or development in recent months, but the network continues to be maintained thanks to 9-10 peers. I suppose they will have a cost, unless for some reason, it is free to maintain them. This gives me a modicum of hope. XEL left Bittrex 4 months ago and there they are still on without any apparent task.

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April 11, 2021, 02:36:02 AM
 #64

...

Ad 2) It can be used for search strategies (like brute force) that can be solved by random guessing.
Ad 3) It works for some special cases of Monte Carlo Methods, namely those that can be solved by simple random guessing  Wink

Explanation: You can't trust any computation node in the network. Therefore you must verify each (partial) result from every single computation node. Furthermore the XEL network needs to determine who of the workers gets rewards. If you can't verify the (partial) results the workers best strategy would be to cheat (because it is less work).

For that reason the only meaningful application that remains is solving problems by random guessing, for which you can easily verify if the result is correct.
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