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Author Topic: [2019-06-07] India Proposes 10-Yr Jail For Crypto Use, May Introduce own crypto  (Read 7720 times)
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June 08, 2019, 02:23:18 PM
 #21

There are two reasons why I believe that this news story is not fake. A few years back, RBI was quite serious about banning Bitcoin. At that point of time, some of the governmental advisers were in favor of this move and some others were opposed to it. Those who were opposed to it ultimately gained the upper hand and convinced the then RBI governor (Urjit Patel) that a ban can't be implemented. But even after that, there have been constant calls from the first camp to revise the policy.
India has the odds stacked against it when it comes to crypto, but that only makes it more likely for fud spreaders to exploit India's anti crypto attitude in order to have the price move down, which it didn't in this case. I want to see them either accept or reject it, and as long as that isn't the case I don't add much value to rumors.

Secondly, this news has appeared in some of the most reliable mainstream media outlets, such as Bloomberg and Money control (the latter is the number one financial website in India).
I am not aware of Money Control's integrity when it comes to their publications, but Bloomberg has proven to not be a reliable news outlet at all. They have released negative news articles about Bitcoin in the past that turned out to be fake. They also seem to be anti Bitcoin, so it doesn't surprise me at all that they spread fake news.

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June 09, 2019, 05:18:33 AM
 #22

For the past several days, I am trying to get the approximate number of Bitcoin users in India, but no reliable stats are available for the same. I found one Forbes article dated 2017, and it claims that there are some 1.5 million users in India:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/sindhujabalaji/2017/11/15/why-indias-bitcoin-scene-is-thriving-despite-a-cold-shoulder-from-the-central-bank/#30ca444b28cd

Since these figures are two years old, I expect that the numbers are higher now.

 
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June 09, 2019, 12:07:29 PM
 #23

Even though it seems like a remote possibility if it had happened for the rest of the world, I think that you need to take any rumours coming from the Indian government or the RBI very seriously, given the fact that it was wiling to essentially through the entire nation into a cash crunch for a publicity stunt of "cracking down on corruption".

Besides, it wouldn't be surprising if some negative action is taken in terms of crypto restrictions occur in the near future. They've already driven out the majority of crypto exchanges from their country due to the RBI restrictions on banks, which isn't getting lifted any time soon. They've also shown no interest in a new regulatory framework, which means that this type of thing is inevitable.

Quote
India Proposes 10-Yr Jail For Crypto Use, May Introduce own crypto

The irony here  Roll Eyes

 
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June 09, 2019, 01:14:42 PM
 #24

The vast majority of the Indian population lives in urban slums and rural areas and most of them are ignorant about cryptocurrency. If the government labels Bitcoin as a currency of criminals and tax evaders, then these people will believe the government version without any reservation.

And secondly, I am not sure about the number of active Bitcoin users in India. A conservative estimate would be around 1 million. Out of that, the serious users may number around 100,000. Among this subgroup, I expect at least 80% to fall in line with the government directive and quit the cryptocurrency market. And what we can do with the remaining 20,000 individuals, in a country of 1.4 billion people?

I watch some documentaries about India, and I have some idea how things work there. One of the big problems is education, some person (maybe the minister of education) say that India needs one new school every ten minutes, to educate all children - this is of course impossible. With less educated people, and a relatively poor infrastructure it's easier to manipulate people, especially if this involved a fear from ones who make laws.

You're probably right, it is difficult to imagine country with such huge number of people when whole Europe have around half of that number, and there is still no universal agreement how to deal with cryptocurrency. The things may not look good at this time for India, but there is always the possibility that all this remains only proposal.

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June 09, 2019, 04:15:54 PM
 #25

I didn't noticed this news until today, when one of my friends informed me about this. I am really concerned now about my coins. Spoke to some friends and the majority were planning to sell the coins soon. Only a few are planning to hold on to them in case the government bans BTC. I haven't decided what to do about it yet... but for sure I am not going to break any law.
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June 09, 2019, 05:07:05 PM
 #26

its not a law just yet it is one of the bills
but this is simply the oddest and craziest proposal that I have seen:
they want to punish people for HOLDING, possessing cryptocurrencies , not trading, not mining - just having
and it is a non-bailable , up to 10 years imprisonment ... if it passes it would be the most retarded law ever
I pity my Indian brothers, the country has tons of problems as it is and they do not want to have troubles for simply having coins in their wallets
well , another thing is how on Earth are they planning to enforce the law , as ridiculous as it is , it has to be enforced to work
you can't expect the police to run after people in e-cafes who just opened an online  bitcoin wallet or something

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June 09, 2019, 11:32:11 PM
 #27

I think that even though it is possible to write this into legislation, it's still somewhat of a scare tactic from the government.

The fact is that when you pursue these draconian measures and regulations surrounding bitcoin, you'll find that if you want to have any kind of enforceability you'll need to invest millions of dollars into transaction tracking mechanisms, investigations, etc. They're still essentially relying on people to follow these laws, which in practice probably will not happen even if they were implemented.

It still baffles me why they would go to such lengths to try and ban bitcoin, as opposed to integrating it as a legitimate part of their economy instead.

 
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June 10, 2019, 12:34:57 PM
 #28

I think that even though it is possible to write this into legislation, it's still somewhat of a scare tactic from the government.

The fact is that when you pursue these draconian measures and regulations surrounding bitcoin, you'll find that if you want to have any kind of enforceability you'll need to invest millions of dollars into transaction tracking mechanisms, investigations, etc. They're still essentially relying on people to follow these laws, which in practice probably will not happen even if they were implemented.

It still baffles me why they would go to such lengths to try and ban bitcoin, as opposed to integrating it as a legitimate part of their economy instead.

actually , every single news outlet has published the same paragraph and people from India are saying its fake news
the thing is that this abstract is taken out of context and it describes only if bitcoin is used in certain illegal activities as described in subsections (which they do not show)
so , generally this sounds like fake news , probably this regulation will be less stringent as everyone is expecting
but only time will tell , we shall see very soon what it is in reality

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June 10, 2019, 02:04:05 PM
 #29

actually , every single news outlet has published the same paragraph and people from India are saying its fake news
the thing is that this abstract is taken out of context and it describes only if bitcoin is used in certain illegal activities as described in subsections (which they do not show)
so , generally this sounds like fake news , probably this regulation will be less stringent as everyone is expecting
but only time will tell , we shall see very soon what it is in reality

I am from India, and I don't think that this is fake news. First of all, the government had earlier also tried to ban cryptocurrency. And secondly, this news was published in reputed sites and those who mentioned in this article have not denied it yet. But I have high hopes on the new financial minister. She is highly qualified and well educated.

 
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June 10, 2019, 03:11:50 PM
 #30

I am from India, and I don't think that this is fake news. First of all, the government had earlier also tried to ban cryptocurrency.

the worst thing a government can do is:

  • be really serious about doing something
  • failing to do it

because it makes them look weak (which is a pretty accurate description of their regulatory capabilities vis a vis cryptocurrencies; weak)

it's highly likely that the main reason no government has implemented a serious ban is because the are afraid it won't work, and they have too much to lose in those circumstances


so, that's not a very good reason. let's take a look at your 2nd reason


And secondly, this news was published in reputed sites and those who mentioned in this article have not denied it yet. But I have high hopes on the new financial minister. She is highly qualified and well educated.

all these so-called "reputed" news sites frequently back the government or corporate class' view of just about everything. So maybe the scare tactics are real, but the news is still (ugh) fake. A real report about something that's not going to happen is a real report, you're right about that, lol


The fact remains: no one, anywhere, has or will implement an effective ban. The governments appear to be "playing for time", as they say in sports commentary. Look what they've done with their time so far (10 whole years): a big, fat nothing

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June 11, 2019, 01:09:13 PM
 #31

This news has attracted a lot of attention from mainstream media here in India. The social media is also very active regarding this topic. And the best thing is that 90% of those who commented are fiercely against any move to penalize the Bitcoin holders. But then, the current government is being run by some religious hardliners and just a few months back they had banned porn!!

 
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June 11, 2019, 02:13:57 PM
 #32

This news has attracted a lot of attention from mainstream media here in India. The social media is also very active regarding this topic. And the best thing is that 90% of those who commented are fiercely against any move to penalize the Bitcoin holders. But then, the current government is being run by some religious hardliners and just a few months back they had banned porn!!

now imagine if you pay for porn with bitcoin in India -its instant decapitation on the spot  Grin
well I have already posted this youtube link :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PV-drIodJEQ
in this video a man is trying to explain that the paragraph in question doesn't explicitly ban bitcoin , but only describes penalties for certain cases of its use ( or misuse)
it can be money laundering or scamming , it is described in the subsections we do not see , so it is impossible to say anything before the whole bill is published

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June 11, 2019, 04:22:30 PM
 #33

the paragraph in question doesn't explicitly ban bitcoin , but only describes penalties for certain cases of its use ( or misuse)
it can be money laundering or scamming

so there banning something that's already banned. Double banned! It's like something out of a tv commercial Roll Eyes

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June 11, 2019, 07:01:47 PM
 #34

If India wishes to introduce its own cryptos they are better doing this the right way, perhaps regulation is what they need to be talking about and not jail time for using a competitors product.

The punishments they are proposing is laughable and hope this is a late April Fools joke. Honestly in this time and era trying to win customers with unfair competition or should I say blackmail is unacceptable !
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June 12, 2019, 05:54:48 AM
 #35

To be fair, the argument for banning cryptocurrency use in India is too strong.

This has a lot to do with the history of Money Laundering and Tax evasion in India. Over the past decades tax evasion has been a huge issue in India. People simply do not declare real income. To do this, cash as a means of transaction used to be encouraged in India by small traders, real estate dealers etc in order to obfuscate the trail of money.

A lot of money pumped into Central Govt schemes used to find its way to middlemen through bribes. To rein this, a system of Direct Benefit Transfers was widely promoted by this Govt. This lead to reduction in the funds being funneled by middlemen. This is where the funds used in corrupt practices come into picture.
The demonetization that most people are crying about was in fact the time when cryptocurrency gained wide usage in India. It was sold by the early adopters as an easy option to convert undeclared cash into safe, untraceable value. Govt committees understand that cryptocurrency is an untraceable form of value. The immediate use case in India would be for corrupt practices like bribes and undisclosed income. They don't want to get into the nuances of having it declared and then tracking them. Banning seems to be the simplest way to go about it.

This will be really bad for enthusiasts like me.

 
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June 12, 2019, 07:53:23 AM
 #36

The immediate use case in India would be for corrupt practices like bribes and undisclosed income. They don't want to get into the nuances of having it declared and then tracking them. Banning seems to be the simplest way to go about it.

This will be really bad for enthusiasts like me.


Bitcoin was designed to support exactly this type of behaviour. You should sell your BTC if you don't like this state of affairs, you clearly didn't even understand what it was before you bought.

Your mindset is incompatible with the tool you are using. You can't buy an airplane, then go on to complain that you can't drive it on the highway or park it in your garage.

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June 13, 2019, 05:05:48 PM
 #37

If India wishes to introduce its own cryptos they are better doing this the right way, perhaps regulation is what they need to be talking about and not jail time for using a competitors product.

The punishments they are proposing is laughable and hope this is a late April Fools joke. Honestly in this time and era trying to win customers with unfair competition or should I say blackmail is unacceptable !

Indian lawmakers are a bunch of jokers and they have proved it many times in the past as well. The problem is that these buffoons don't understand the basics of cryptocurrency. They still think that it is possible to link a cryptocurrency wallet with an individual. They are overly dependent on their advisers, and the latter makes use of the former's ignorance to push forward their agenda.

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June 14, 2019, 05:48:39 AM
 #38

The immediate use case in India would be for corrupt practices like bribes and undisclosed income. They don't want to get into the nuances of having it declared and then tracking them. Banning seems to be the simplest way to go about it.

This will be really bad for enthusiasts like me.


Bitcoin was designed to support exactly this type of behaviour. You should sell your BTC if you don't like this state of affairs, you clearly didn't even understand what it was before you bought.

Your mindset is incompatible with the tool you are using. You can't buy an airplane, then go on to complain that you can't drive it on the highway or park it in your garage.
I take it that you say so coming from the anti-taxation, anti-establishment school of thought. I don't have a problem with that as its debatable whether its a good thing or a bad thing. I think you have taken my "declare and track" statement to heart. I am obviously wrong to see that as an alternative. That was not my point though and i am quite sure that Bitcoin wasn't "designed" to support bribes and corruption.

If don't think this is the ONLY "State of Affairs" bitcoin is supposed to propagate. You should probably expand your horizons a bit. India has been a developing, over-populated country for several decades since its independence. The tendency to hoard ill-gotten cash has been the bane of development out here. From that viewpoint, the regulators/ Govt project cryptocurrency as simply another way of safely storing "Bribe money". The Govt. officials in India who amassed disproportionate assets had this "Swiss Bank" thing going on for the longest time.

Its a difficult problem to solve and a difficult propaganda to counter. Obviously not as simple as giving unsolicited advice about selling BTC. If you want to continue this discussion by doling out sermons from your high chair of libertarianism then you are welcome not to reply. If you can point out a way to better counter these obvious "perception issues" or know of an example where this was done then you are welcome Mr Banks.

 
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June 14, 2019, 07:20:37 AM
 #39

i am quite sure that Bitcoin wasn't "designed" to support bribes and corruption.

yes it was, it was designed to engender outright financial independence. that includes people using Bitcoin to do immoral things, as well as the moral


From that viewpoint, the regulators/ Govt project cryptocurrency as simply another way of safely storing "Bribe money". The Govt. officials in India who amassed disproportionate assets had this "Swiss Bank" thing going on for the longest time.

Its a difficult problem to solve and a difficult propaganda to counter.

no it's not, if everyone has a "swiss bank account" then no-one need pay money to corrupt officials to begin with




it's very simple.

Bitcoin is code. The code does exactly what it does, nothing else. It enables complete financial independence. If you don't want that, you bought the wrong thing: do everyone a favour, sell

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June 14, 2019, 09:15:38 AM
 #40

i am quite sure that Bitcoin wasn't "designed" to support bribes and corruption.

yes it was, it was designed to engender outright financial independence. that includes people using Bitcoin to do immoral things, as well as the moral
Yeah yeah. I should have known where this will go.. Sad Not arguing with that.

From that viewpoint, the regulators/ Govt project cryptocurrency as simply another way of safely storing "Bribe money". The Govt. officials in India who amassed disproportionate assets had this "Swiss Bank" thing going on for the longest time.

Its a difficult problem to solve and a difficult propaganda to counter.

no it's not, if everyone has a "swiss bank account" then no-one need pay money to corrupt officials to begin with

Hmm. Everyone using BTC would mean putting public expenditure on a public blockchain. This would automatically result in accountability.

Yet, those with power will always find a way to get paid and they are inherently shielded by the nature of cryptocurrency.  So while bitcoin can solve the problem of Govt and Central Bank monopoly on the value of money, i think it creates additional problems when it comes to corruption. This is why it is easier to target it in a developing country like India.
But yes, targeting BTC for that is a typical diversionary tactic. Its not the tool but the intent of its use which is the problem here.

Bitcoin is code. The code does exactly what it does, nothing else. It enables complete financial independence. If you don't want that, you bought the wrong thing: do everyone a favour, sell

Mannnn! First, I don't really own that much. Second, I am not selling, no matter what you say..The discussion evolved and well, I concede this debate in your favor Banks.  Would you please get off that horse now?? Roll Eyes

 
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