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Author Topic: PM from admin demanding to exclude a certain user  (Read 2536 times)
suchmoon
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June 12, 2019, 09:00:43 PM
Last edit: June 13, 2019, 11:55:37 AM by suchmoon
Merited by Foxpup (5), Hhampuz (4), Avirunes (3), qwk (1), mindrust (1), kzv (1), Vispilio (1), xtraelv (1)
#1

Since the "Lauda PM" is now public knowledge let me just state that this sort of thing - forum owner/admin sending a PM demanding "recommending" to exclude a certain user from my trust network - is deeply unwelcome. Theymos can blacklist anyone he wants, there is no need for him to coerce others into doing this. At the very least this call for action should have been done publicly. I want to put this out in case anyone wants to exclude (or blacklist  Wink) me for this opinion.

If you're not quite familiar with the events, please read cryptodevil's excellent write-up.

Not sure if this is more a Meta topic or a Reputation topic, feel free to move as appropriate.

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June 12, 2019, 09:02:43 PM
#2

Since the "Lauda PM" is now public knowledge let me just state that this sort of thing - forum owner/admin sending PMs demanding to exclude certain users from my trust network - is deeply unwelcome. Theymos can blacklist anyone he wants, there is no need for him to coerce others into doing this. At the very least this should have been done publicly. I want to put this out in case anyone wants to exclude (or blacklist  Wink) me for this opinion.

Not sure if this is more a Meta topic or a Reputation topic, feel free to move as appropriate.

No, I and quite a few others agree with you. It makes no sense really. I mean, PM'ing users to exclude lauda over a "mistake" made on Quickscammer's flag? Fuck that.... Not right... Deleted the PM. Roll Eyes
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June 12, 2019, 09:05:26 PM
#3

Decided to ask advice from a couple of OG DT1s. Was told to ignore it so I did Smiley

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June 12, 2019, 09:08:26 PM
#4

Since the "Lauda PM" is now public knowledge let me just state that this sort of thing - forum owner/admin sending PMs demanding to exclude certain users from my trust network - is deeply unwelcome. Theymos can blacklist anyone he wants, there is no need for him to coerce others into doing this. At the very least this call for action should have been done publicly. I want to put this out in case anyone wants to exclude (or blacklist  Wink) me for this opinion.

Not sure if this is more a Meta topic or a Reputation topic, feel free to move as appropriate.

I do understand what you are saying, just a PM with fact would be OK imo and wouldn't be a problem so each member can make there ow mind on a given FACT...

Still what happens here is an exact same example as Lauda doing a similar thing not long ago, with asking other DT members to trust or distrust people...  Undecided

Same no go, if you wanna point something to members to make sure they don't miss it in the forum could be OK, just let the reading party make up there own mind whiteout any pressure from no-one Smiley

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June 12, 2019, 09:09:10 PM
#5

Perhaps he should just blacklist anyone who keeps lauda in their trust list.

He was trying to convince others to agree with him.

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June 12, 2019, 09:09:45 PM
#6

Since the "Lauda PM" is now public knowledge let me just state that this sort of thing - forum owner/admin sending PMs demanding to exclude certain users from my trust network - is deeply unwelcome. Theymos can blacklist anyone he wants, there is no need for him to coerce others into doing this. At the very least this should have been done publicly. I want to put this out in case anyone wants to exclude (or blacklist  Wink) me for this opinion.

Not sure if this is more a Meta topic or a Reputation topic, feel free to move as appropriate.

No, I and quite a few others agree with you. It makes no sense really. I mean, PM'ing users to exclude lauda over a "mistake" made on Quickscammer's flag? Fuck that.... Not right... Deleted the PM. Roll Eyes

So with this logic i can plagiarize and get banned and claim it was a mistake and i can be unbanned?  I mean the rules were clearly posted by theymos.  Was not a mistake Lauda has been on "It's" high horse forever thinking IT can get away with anything.
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June 12, 2019, 09:10:22 PM
#7

He was trying to convince others to agree with him.
The flag-type is wrong. I have advised others to use flag-type 1 and successfully convinced a lot of people to support it.

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June 12, 2019, 09:17:47 PM
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#8

Just to make it clear: I obviously don't mind theymos expressing his opinion, I appreciate it. I dislike the way it was done. He can blacklist users (and preferably explain the decision) if he wants to. Or post his opinion publicly and let everyone make their decisions.

And no, it's not the same as someone else (e.g. Lauda) campaigning for inclusions/exclusions. I could tell Lauda to fuck off and nothing would happen regardless of what the conspiracy theories would lead you to believe. I don't think many recipients of that PM would feel the same way about a request from admin. Perhaps my reading of the situation is flawed. Let's hope that's all there is.

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June 12, 2019, 09:20:43 PM
#9

And no, it's not the same as someone else (e.g. Lauda) campaigning for inclusions/exclusions. I could tell Lauda to fuck off and nothing would happen regardless of what the conspiracy theories would lead you to believe. I don't think many recipients of that PM would feel the same way about a request from admin. Perhaps my reading of the situation is flawed. Let's hope that's all there is.
Let's see where all those users are which claim that others act when I PM them only because they are afraid of me. This must be taken to the next-level if the admin PMs you then, no? In comparison to a swift blacklist and authority-figure, I have zero power here.

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June 12, 2019, 09:25:11 PM
#10

Let's see where all those users are which claim that others act when I PM them only because they are afraid of me. This must be taken to the next-level if the admin PMs you then, no? In comparison to a swift blacklist and authority-figure, I have zero power here.

Just to make it clear: I obviously don't mind theymos expressing his opinion, I appreciate it. I dislike the way it was done. He can blacklist users (and preferably explain the decision) if he wants to. Or post his opinion publicly and let everyone make their decisions.

And no, it's not the same as someone else (e.g. Lauda) campaigning for inclusions/exclusions. I could tell Lauda to fuck off and nothing would happen regardless of what the conspiracy theories would lead you to believe. I don't think many recipients of that PM would feel the same way about a request from admin. Perhaps my reading of the situation is flawed. Let's hope that's all there is.

You can tell Theymos to fuck off too if you want. He doesn't take it too personal.

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June 12, 2019, 09:25:35 PM
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#11

Since the "Lauda PM" is now public knowledge let me just state that this sort of thing - forum owner/admin sending PMs demanding to exclude certain users from my trust network - is deeply unwelcome. Theymos can blacklist anyone he wants, there is no need for him to coerce others into doing this. At the very least this call for action should have been done publicly. I want to put this out in case anyone wants to exclude (or blacklist  Wink) me for this opinion.


Theymos' pm to me contained a recommendation, not a demand, and I'll treat it as such.

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June 12, 2019, 09:31:37 PM
#12

Let's see where all those users are which claim that others act when I PM them only because they are afraid of me. This must be taken to the next-level if the admin PMs you then, no? In comparison to a swift blacklist and authority-figure, I have zero power here.

Just to make it clear: I obviously don't mind theymos expressing his opinion, I appreciate it. I dislike the way it was done. He can blacklist users (and preferably explain the decision) if he wants to. Or post his opinion publicly and let everyone make their decisions.

And no, it's not the same as someone else (e.g. Lauda) campaigning for inclusions/exclusions. I could tell Lauda to fuck off and nothing would happen regardless of what the conspiracy theories would lead you to believe. I don't think many recipients of that PM would feel the same way about a request from admin. Perhaps my reading of the situation is flawed. Let's hope that's all there is.
You can tell Theymos to fuck off too if you want. He doesn't take it too personal.
Are you sure that all users know that? Are you sure that all those users are not afraid of authorities?

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June 12, 2019, 09:37:34 PM
#13

certain users
Your pm was about more than one user, or is this just a turn of phrase?

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June 12, 2019, 09:38:23 PM
#14

Are you sure that all users know that? Are you sure that all those users are not afraid of authorities?

Nope, but I also don't know that all users are not afraid of ducks either. This is pretty much the same thing I said when people were complaining about you "bullying" others. People are free to ignore anyone they want whether its a random newbie, a legendary account, a DT1 account, or an admin (can't ignore admins about rule breaking I suppose). If you don't know that, that isn't the admin, your, or the duck's fault.

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June 12, 2019, 09:39:19 PM
#15

Are you sure that all users know that? Are you sure that all those users are not afraid of authorities?

Nope, but I also don't know that all users are not afraid of ducks either. This is pretty much the same thing I said when people were complaining about you "bullying" others. People are free to ignore anyone they want whether its a random newbie, a legendary account, a DT1 account, or an admin (can't ignore admins about rule breaking I suppose). If you don't know that, that isn't the admin, your, or duck's fault.
Fair point. I would however, at this point question the trustworthiness and honesty of anyone who cried "bullying" about me but does not do the same now regarding this PM.

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June 12, 2019, 09:40:59 PM
#16

Perhaps he should just blacklist anyone who keeps lauda in their trust list.

He was trying to convince others to agree with him.
My teeth are grinding.

My teeth are grinding.

Did I mention that my teeth....

I'm sitting on this for the moment, as it's an unprecedented request since I've been a member here.  I've always thought Lauda did more good than harm, and I've had a fair amount of loyalty to him/her since before my DT days because of support I received.  Lauda was definitely impulsive today with the exclusions over the bill gator thing and the QS flag. 

Lauda, I'm going to do nothing but sit on my hands right now and see how this crap goes down.  I may step away from the keyboard for a while after this as well. 

I did support someone else's flag referencing QS's escrow shenanigans, so that one I felt justified in getting behind.  The friggin' highlight of my day right there, sorry QS.

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June 12, 2019, 09:41:02 PM
#17

Lauda said:

The system is terrible. Other's have followed in blindly on that flag not knowing/understanding the full stupidity of the system (or just for the sake of testing - see yahoo's post) at the time. I wasn't sure of how bad the implications of it either, i.e. it's much more worse than I originally thought. Now that that has sorted (there is no support on the flag), it's all good. I'm fine with a blacklist if mr. theymos wants to. All flags created after that are fully valid; maybe only not the flag on BSV.




You literally asked to be removed, didn't you?
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June 12, 2019, 09:41:46 PM
#18

I agree with the general sentiment of suchmoon and others here. Especially now when this new flag thing was implemented, it isn't surprising to see it being accidentally misused or problematic at this point. Also, I would not go distrust Lauda solely because Lauda really just made a negative flag about Quickseller, regardless of whatever was incorrect or bad in the flag.

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June 12, 2019, 09:42:05 PM
#19

Lauda said:

The system is terrible. Other's have followed in blindly on that flag not knowing/understanding the full stupidity of the system (or just for the sake of testing - see yahoo's post) at the time. I wasn't sure of how bad the implications of it either, i.e. it's much more worse than I originally thought. Now that that has sorted (there is no support on the flag), it's all good. I'm fine with a blacklist if mr. theymos wants to. All flags created after that are fully valid; maybe only not the flag on BSV.
You literally asked to me removed, didn't you?
I did not ask for anything. I said that I'd accept it for the greater good or as proof of fake-decentralization.

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June 12, 2019, 09:43:11 PM
#20

Lauda said:

The system is terrible. Other's have followed in blindly on that flag not knowing/understanding the full stupidity of the system (or just for the sake of testing - see yahoo's post) at the time. I wasn't sure of how bad the implications of it either, i.e. it's much more worse than I originally thought. Now that that has sorted (there is no support on the flag), it's all good. I'm fine with a blacklist if mr. theymos wants to. All flags created after that are fully valid; maybe only not the flag on BSV.
You literally asked to me removed, didn't you?
I did not ask for anything. I said that I'd accept it for the greater good or as proof of fake-decentralization.

Ah ok, I was just asking.
No problem for me, thanks.
Lauda
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June 12, 2019, 09:46:06 PM
#21

Lauda said:

The system is terrible. Other's have followed in blindly on that flag not knowing/understanding the full stupidity of the system (or just for the sake of testing - see yahoo's post) at the time. I wasn't sure of how bad the implications of it either, i.e. it's much more worse than I originally thought. Now that that has sorted (there is no support on the flag), it's all good. I'm fine with a blacklist if mr. theymos wants to. All flags created after that are fully valid; maybe only not the flag on BSV.
You literally asked to me removed, didn't you?
I did not ask for anything. I said that I'd accept it for the greater good or as proof of fake-decentralization.
Ah ok, I was just asking.
No problem for me, thanks.
No worries. The flag is a mistake; I'm not insisting on it nor have I asked for support on it after realizing that isn't proper use of the current "rules". I am, however, insisting that the system is fundamentally flawed now (much worse than where were before).

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June 12, 2019, 09:47:05 PM
Merited by mindrust (1)
#22

Fair point. I would however, at this point question the trustworthiness and honesty of anyone who cried "bullying" about me but does not do the same now regarding this PM.

Again, people can question the trustworthiness and honesty of anyone based on their own opinion. People who cried about you bullying them either have those that support, oppose, or don't care about their opinion. You could say that Theymos is "bullying" other users now if you want, and similar groups will form that either support, oppose, or don't care.

Theymos is not an absolute detached party from trust, and not unreasonably far out of reach of having the same authority as DT. While I don't know for certain what would happen if everyone decided to exclude Theymos, I doubt he'd have a fit and rig the system so that others would have to listen to him. Given that hes essentially just another member of DT, I don't think its unreasonable for him to share his opinion with others or ask for their consideration regarding this matter the same way that its reasonable for you or any other member to do so.

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June 12, 2019, 09:48:15 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
#23

Theymos' pm to me contained a recommendation, not a demand, and I'll treat it as such.

Reminds me when the school principal recommended me to flush the pack of Marlboro reds down the toilet in lieu of other consequences.

Your pm was about more than one user, or is this just a turn of phrase?

Just Lauda. I edited the OP. My initial thinking was that this might be an ongoing strategy but since we have only one example let's make it singular.

You literally asked to be removed, didn't you?

I don't think Lauda meant "theymos, please send a PM to everyone and recommend them to exclude me" but that's not quite the point. theymos has the power to blacklist and should use it if he deems appropriate. Exclusions should be voluntary.

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June 12, 2019, 09:51:04 PM
#24

The flags are just implemented and could work better, as the directly crazy red tagg's so a new member is already afraid whiteout knowing anything of that persons real trades Roll Eyes

Also not because the flags are here today that means dozens of people need to be instant red flagged ...

Need to give this new system e proper time.... instead of already writing it out.

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June 12, 2019, 09:55:31 PM
#25

Perhaps he should just blacklist anyone who keeps lauda in their trust list.

He was trying to convince others to agree with him.
All blacklisting would do is exclude someone from being DT1. He would have to completely overhaul the system to make it impossible for any DT1 member to include someone in their trust list, therefore making that person DT2.
He can blacklist on both levels, no?

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June 12, 2019, 09:55:56 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
#26

Given that hes essentially just another member of DT

You are delusional to think that people see theymos as "just another member of DT" or that he would actually be just a member of DT.

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June 12, 2019, 09:57:52 PM
#27

Theymos' pm to me contained a recommendation, not a demand, and I'll treat it as such.
Reminds me when the school principal recommended me to flush the pack of Marlboro reds down the toilet in lieu of other consequences.

I know j/k, but in this case what are the "other consequences" of failure to act on his recommendation?
Theymos excludes me because I decide not to exclude Lauda?
the tmfp account vanishes as if it were never there?
I should stop answering the door/phone?
What?

Extraordinary Claims require Extraordinary Evidence
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June 12, 2019, 09:58:09 PM
#28

Since the "Lauda PM" is now public knowledge let me just state that this sort of thing - forum owner/admin sending a PM demanding "recommending" to exclude a certain user from my trust network - is deeply unwelcome. Theymos can blacklist anyone he wants, there is no need for him to coerce others into doing this. At the very least this call for action should have been done publicly. I want to put this out in case anyone wants to exclude (or blacklist  Wink) me for this opinion.

Not sure if this is more a Meta topic or a Reputation topic, feel free to move as appropriate.

Funny, none of you had any objection whatsoever when the same was done in my case.


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June 12, 2019, 09:58:33 PM
#29

He can blacklist on both levels, no?

Possibly. But the two known blacklisted users (marlboroza and mikeywith) have been removed only from DT1 and are still in DT2.

I know j/k, but in this case what are the "other consequences" of failure to act on his recommendation?
Theymos excludes me because I decide not to exclude Lauda?
the tmfp account vanishes as if it were never there?
I should stop answering the door/phone?
What?

Calling your parents, duh Grin

Actually I don't know, in either case. The principal never told me. Theymos didn't either. Both have the power to do unpleasant things to me. Thus the stupid analogy.

Funny, none of you had any objection whatsoever when the same was done in my case.

Funny indeed. He didn't PM me about you, I wonder why.

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June 12, 2019, 09:59:33 PM
#30

He can blacklist on both levels, no?
Possibly. But the two known blacklisted users (marlboroza and mikeywith) have been removed only from DT1 and are still in DT2.
So what exactly would blacklisting me from DT1 accomplish if I left a false flag? This makes even less sense.

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June 12, 2019, 10:01:06 PM
#31

He can blacklist on both levels, no?
Possibly. But the two known blacklisted users (marlboroza and mikeywith) have been removed only from DT1 and are still in DT2.
So what exactly would blacklisting me from DT1 accomplish if I left a false flag? This makes even less sense.

You do nothing but abuse DT...You deserve a ban from it

This quote is funny to me

[/quote]
Excluded. I don't trust flawed judgement.
[/quote]
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June 12, 2019, 10:02:43 PM
#32

You do nothing but abuse DT...You deserve a ban from it
Preconceived notions and biases do not often mix well with quality discussion.
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June 12, 2019, 10:03:13 PM
#33

Funny, none of you had any objection whatsoever when the same was done in my case.

Funny indeed. He didn't PM me about you, I wonder why.

Probably because I was never on your trust list, but those that had me on their trust list were requested to exclude me, and not a peep of objection from any of you objecting here today was heard.


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mindrust
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June 12, 2019, 10:03:20 PM
#34

This is drama on steroids.

Please no more.

Now there is a lauda PM asks me to exclude theymos.

WHAT AM I GUNNA DOOO

edit: since I did the opposite of what theymos asked, I guess I'll add theymos to my trust list.  Grin




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June 12, 2019, 10:03:40 PM
#35

He can blacklist on both levels, no?
Possibly. But the two known blacklisted users (marlboroza and mikeywith) have been removed only from DT1 and are still in DT2.
So what exactly would blacklisting me from DT1 accomplish if I left a false flag? This makes even less sense.
You do nothing but abuse DT...You deserve a ban from it
Blacklisting me from DT1 would accomplish nothing, especially not if this "gang" exists.

Now there is a lauda PM asks me to exclude theymos.

WHAT AM I GUNNA DOOO
I don't ask, I suggest. Read the last part again. Have fun. <3

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June 12, 2019, 10:03:50 PM
Merited by DaveF (1), Anduck (1), iasenko (1)
#36

Given that hes essentially just another member of DT

You are delusional to think that people see theymos as "just another member of DT" or that he would actually be just a member of DT.

Agreed, Theymos is not a regular user at all. I decided to just remove my entire list and get removed from this whole DT disaster moving forward. The never ending drama of this stuff has gotten old and just ignoring it all makes life easier.
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June 12, 2019, 10:04:25 PM
#37

So what exactly would blacklisting me from DT1 accomplish if I left a false flag? This makes even less sense.

Dunno, maybe that's why he wants you "~"-ed instead of blacklisted so that you'd be gone from DT2 as well.

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June 12, 2019, 10:05:27 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1), cryptodevil (1), mindrust (1)
#38

This is drama on steroids.

Please no more.

Now there is a lauda PM asks me to exclude theymos.

WHAT AM I GUNNA DOOO



it's just a joke!
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June 12, 2019, 10:05:35 PM
Merited by cryptodevil (1)
#39

Perhaps he should just blacklist anyone who keeps lauda in their trust list.

He was trying to convince others to agree with him.
All blacklisting would do is exclude someone from being DT1. He would have to completely overhaul the system to make it impossible for any DT1 member to include someone in their trust list, therefore making that person DT2.
He can blacklist on both levels, no?

Oops, I just deleted that message because I realized that if he blacklists everyone that includes you from DT1, then you would be excluded from DT2 as well. However, if he did not take that extreme measure, I believe he would have to do a tweek on the system, so if a DT1 member included someone on the blacklist, it doesn't add them to the DT2 list.
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June 12, 2019, 10:06:05 PM
#40

So what exactly would blacklisting me from DT1 accomplish if I left a false flag? This makes even less sense.
Dunno, maybe that's why he wants you "~"-ed instead of blacklisted so that you'd be gone from DT2 as well.
Good point. However, my main argument is that blacklisting me for this would destroy all the efforts he made to decentralize the system so far. Therefore, he chose that path. I would doubt any claim that he can't single-handedly blacklist on both levels.

since I did the opposite of what theymos asked, I guess I'll add theymos to my trust list.  Grin
Very fair deal, but my reasoning was far wider and superior than his.

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June 12, 2019, 10:08:34 PM
Merited by mindrust (1)
#41

You might not have liked it but you don't have to act on it. I'm sure many of the people complaining have also done similar things via PM against others. Maybe had theymos made threats or demanded we do it it would be a different matter. Maybe both parties did things in haste but it seems to have been sorted now anyway.

I may step away from the keyboard for a while after this as well. 


I think a lot of people here probably need a vacation. And not one of the pretend ones Cryptohuter is on.


I decided to just remove my entire list and get removed from this whole DT disaster moving forward. The never ending drama of this stuff has gotten old and just ignoring it all makes life easier.

My first thought was just to wipe my trust list completely as I've thought about doing that several times. More hassle than it's worth.

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June 12, 2019, 10:10:06 PM
#42

He can blacklist on both levels, no?
Possibly. But the two known blacklisted users (marlboroza and mikeywith) have been removed only from DT1 and are still in DT2.
So what exactly would blacklisting me from DT1 accomplish if I left a false flag? This makes even less sense.

But he hasn't blacklisted you, has he?
Thanks for the pm, I think.
Irony Alert: Theymos' objection to the description of SV as a scam.

Extraordinary Claims require Extraordinary Evidence
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June 12, 2019, 10:10:26 PM
#43

So what exactly would blacklisting me from DT1 accomplish if I left a false flag? This makes even less sense.
Dunno, maybe that's why he wants you "~"-ed instead of blacklisted so that you'd be gone from DT2 as well.
Good point. However, my main argument is that blacklisting me for this would destroy all the efforts he made to decentralize the system so far. Therefore, he chose that path. I would doubt any claim that he can't single-handedly blacklist on both levels.

since I did the opposite of what theymos asked, I guess I'll add theymos to my trust list.  Grin
Very fair deal, but my reasoning was far wider and superior than his.

He is providing you a decentralized solution, but you are refusing to follow the standards of that system and instead demand special privilege to abuse it. You only have yourself to blame.


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June 12, 2019, 10:12:32 PM
#44

My first thought was just to wipe my trust list completely as I've thought about doing that several times. More hassle than it's worth.
The only reason for which I haven't done this already is the people that got included by me.

But he hasn't blacklisted you, has he?
Doesn't look like it. Like I said, doing so kills the credibility of the decentralization efforts i.e. would prove that they are fake.

Thanks for the pm, I think.
You're welcome. I didn't exclude anyone from the list of recipient, regardless of my personal opinion of them.

Irony Alert: Theymos' objection to the description of SV as a scam.
The whole system is backwards, but the general idea could work. The BSV case is just an argument against the system.

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June 12, 2019, 10:19:04 PM
#45

Perhaps he should just blacklist anyone who keeps lauda in their trust list.

He was trying to convince others to agree with him.
All blacklisting would do is exclude someone from being DT1. He would have to completely overhaul the system to make it impossible for any DT1 member to include someone in their trust list, therefore making that person DT2.
He can blacklist on both levels, no?
He can, and should hardcode exclusions to anyone who has you on their trust list.

The majority of people who have you on their trust list are scammers, and/or what amounts to your puppet incapable of thinking for themselves. In all cases, they are showing extreme bad judgment

Find the fire hydrant in my Avatar for a prize.
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June 12, 2019, 10:21:39 PM
#46

Given that hes essentially just another member of DT

You are delusional to think that people see theymos as "just another member of DT" or that he would actually be just a member of DT.

I made this same argument when SaltySpitoon and others were requested to exclude me on their trust lists, no one objected then. It is very interesting to see this supposed victim make many of the same arguments I did, but thought it was perfectly reasonable when applied to me.


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June 12, 2019, 10:24:22 PM
#47

Given that hes essentially just another member of DT
You are delusional to think that people see theymos as "just another member of DT" or that he would actually be just a member of DT.
I made this same argument when SaltySpitoon and others were requested to exclude me on their trust lists, no one objected then. It is very interesting to see this supposed victim make many of the same arguments I did, but thought it was perfectly reasonable when applied to me.
When exactly did this happen? I actually would have to re-read whatever happen before I could say anything.

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ChemicalSpillage
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June 12, 2019, 10:25:28 PM
#48

Probably because I was never on your trust list, but those that had me on their trust list were requested to exclude me, and not a peep of objection from any of you objecting here today was heard.
What then is the overlap of users? Surely you can comment on their hypocrisy.
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June 12, 2019, 10:30:03 PM
#49

Probably because I was never on your trust list, but those that had me on their trust list were requested to exclude me, and not a peep of objection from any of you objecting here today was heard.
What then is the overlap of users? Surely you can comment on their hypocrisy.

As far as I know there is no overlap of individuals that got requests in both instances. There is however overlap in those that dismissed my arguments against Theymos requesting exclusions personally as if he did not also carry the weight of the admin. They were dismissive of or silent in response to the argument then, now they suddenly support the argument. This is not an argument based on principles, it is an argument based on personalities.


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The-One-Above-All
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June 12, 2019, 10:44:58 PM
#50

What is suchmoon claiming has happened now?

Theymos dared to try and save lauda public humiliation of being blacklisted by asking a back stabbing scum bag and possible alt of lauda - suchmoon to exclude the trust abusing lying scamming piece of shit lauda? better to just straight up black list this piece of shit and lauda together. They will NEVER play fair with the rest of the board.

Suchmoon has been shown PROOF lauda is a liar and scammer, suchmoon has been shown lauda will use red trust to facilitate his own scamming by trying to silence whistle blowers. She has not done the right thing then. She will never do the right thing in the future. Blacklist them both and ANYONE else who REFUSES to stop with the trust abuse or will support those that do trust abuse.

If suchmoon is trying to spin this into something "positive" in laudas favor then we suchmoon just revealed how far she will go to protect that proven liar, scammer and trust abuser.

LOL at least Theymos can see what an EXCELLENT member suchscumbag is now. The true colors are revealed. She will do anything to keep her gang in power.

Just BLACKLIST every DT member that will not abide by the rules. Let's drain this swamp.

Of course meta board will try to reject anything that removes their ability to game this board and cream off the power and money.

Suchmoon needs to be forced to answer in public some VERY STRAIGHT questions. 

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June 12, 2019, 10:52:17 PM
#51

It's simple Lauda broke a clear rule and should be manually removed from DT forever
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June 12, 2019, 10:53:29 PM
#52

Probably because I was never on your trust list, but those that had me on their trust list were requested to exclude me, and not a peep of objection from any of you objecting here today was heard.
What then is the overlap of users? Surely you can comment on their hypocrisy.

As far as I know there is no overlap of individuals that got requests in both instances. There is however overlap in those that dismissed my arguments against Theymos requesting exclusions personally as if he did not also carry the weight of the admin. They were dismissive of or silent in response to the argument then, now they suddenly support the argument. This is not an argument based on principles, it is an argument based on personalities.

When exactly did this happen? I actually would have to re-read whatever happen before I could say anything.
Context would help.

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June 12, 2019, 10:55:09 PM
#53

It's simple Lauda broke a clear rule and should be manually removed from DT forever

LOL, since when were the rules clear around here?  Even the list of rules that are pinned to the board are "unofficial."
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June 12, 2019, 10:56:12 PM
#54

It's simple Lauda broke a clear rule and should be manually removed from DT forever
Considering that they have already resolved this situation, it seems strange to insert yourself into this. It's like offense culture.

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June 12, 2019, 10:57:40 PM
Merited by eddie13 (1)
#55

It's simple Lauda broke a clear rule and should be manually removed from DT forever

LOL, since when were the rules clear around here?  Even the list of rules that are pinned to the board are "unofficial."

This is pretty clear

Quote from: Theymos
Creating or supporting a scammer flag is actively affirming a set of pretty clear fact-statements. If someone knowingly supports a flag containing incorrect fact-statements, then that is crystal-clear abuse, and I will seek to have such people removed from DT ASAP.

Extraordinary Claims require Extraordinary Evidence
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June 12, 2019, 10:58:26 PM
#56

Given that hes essentially just another member of DT

You are delusional to think that people see theymos as "just another member of DT" or that he would actually be just a member of DT.

Agreed, Theymos is not a regular user at all. I decided to just remove my entire list and get removed from this whole DT disaster moving forward. The never ending drama of this stuff has gotten old and just ignoring it all makes life easier.

Call me delusional then. Anyone thats been around a while (all parties I'm speaking with now) should at least have the feeling that Theymos isn't petty enough to do anything about it if everyone that he sends a PM to recommending that they do whatever about doesn't do it.

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June 12, 2019, 10:58:40 PM
#57

It's simple Lauda broke a clear rule and should be manually removed from DT forever
Considering that they have already resolved this situation, it seems strange to insert yourself into this. It's like offense culture.

Resolved? Lauda broke a RULE punishment should follow like so many you have tagged in the past.
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June 12, 2019, 10:59:24 PM
#58

Probably because I was never on your trust list, but those that had me on their trust list were requested to exclude me, and not a peep of objection from any of you objecting here today was heard.
What then is the overlap of users? Surely you can comment on their hypocrisy.

As far as I know there is no overlap of individuals that got requests in both instances. There is however overlap in those that dismissed my arguments against Theymos requesting exclusions personally as if he did not also carry the weight of the admin. They were dismissive of or silent in response to the argument then, now they suddenly support the argument. This is not an argument based on principles, it is an argument based on personalities.

When exactly did this happen? I actually would have to re-read whatever happen before I could say anything.
Context would help.

Oh becoming very accommodating now are we not lauda worm tongue. You STATED  you will not work within these new rules, you said he can change the rules or black list you. He was likely trying to be NICE to you rather than outright bitch slap you with a black list in public for us all to gloat over.

Suchslob has just demonstrated clearly that

1. she will not only include you on dt after she knows you lied and scammed
2. she win not only include you on dt and not reverse your trust abuse when you use red trust to hide and facilitate your own scamming
3. she will now try and stab theymos in the back and make him look bad for trying to usher you out of the back door leaving you with some dignity in the hope this now makes you untouchable

she should be blacklisted herself, she is now making a mockery of the trust system by giving lauda POSITIVE trust because she says lauda must have told her the truth atleast once.

She is deliberately not co operating and supporting her pal/alt lauda who is trying to give theymos the big fuck off again.

Get both dirt bags blacklisted.
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June 12, 2019, 11:00:40 PM
Merited by malevolent (3), TECSHARE (1), JayJuanGee (1), LoyceV (1), tmfp (1)
#59

It's a recommendation, not a demand. As I said:
Creating or supporting a scammer flag is actively affirming a set of pretty clear fact-statements. If someone knowingly supports a flag containing incorrect fact-statements, then that is crystal-clear abuse, and I will seek to have such people removed from DT ASAP.



As I mentioned in the flags topic, there are three very separate scopes for trust which need to be kept separate. For scammer flags, the point is to damage the person's forum existence in order to deter future scamming. This is a very serious action which should have a very high bar. Because it's so serious, I only want actual agreements considered here. In legal systems, there's additionally such a thing as tort law and statutory law, but the forum is very far from having the kind of cohesive legal system which could handle such things in a halfway-reasonable way. The only thing that approaches clear-cut scamming is violation of an agreement. If non-contractual offenses are allowed in the scammer-flag space, then we're going to get factions of forum users constantly fighting each other, which is exactly what I'm trying to stop. I'm sick and tired of big escalations and never-ending feuds over highly-subjective and/or relatively minor things.

For non-agreement issues, use a newbie-warning flag and give them a negative trust rating. These actions are in the different scopes of warning newbies or informing other users of your opinions, which have less severe consequences and therefore lower bars.

I hate having to "defend" BSV and BCH, which were created with deception in mind, are technologically bankrupt, and are run by huge assholes, but you can't say that their supporters broke a contract with you when they didn't. Give them a newbie-warning flag if you want, but not a contract-violation flag unless they actually broke a contract with you. (Note that you might have a case for breach of implied contract if you were actually tricked into buying one of these coins instead of BTC.)

1NXYoJ5xU91Jp83XfVMHwwTUyZFK64BoAD
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June 12, 2019, 11:03:11 PM
#60

I'm sick and tired of big escalations and never-ending feuds over highly-subjective and/or relatively minor things.
Ironically (assuming that people aren't privately lying to me), you've done the exact opposite. A good portion of people from both sides are dissatisfied. Naturally, the scammers celebrate once more.

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The-One-Above-All
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June 12, 2019, 11:05:13 PM
#61

I'm sick and tired of big escalations and never-ending feuds over highly-subjective and/or relatively minor things.
Ironically (assuming that people aren't privately lying to me), you've done the exact opposite. A good portion of people from both sides are dissatisfied. Naturally, the scammers celebrate once more.

Wrong EVERYONE is satisfied except the DT members that were enjoying being able to use red trust as their own personal weapon for their own means.

Since those parasitic swine are the most vocal in meta you relying on a very bogus metric. I see MOST of those that are NOT GANG members are VERY HAPPY.

Anyone who wants a fair set of transparent rules where every member must be treated equally is happy. Those that were enjoying being part of the self appointed DT crew that all cream off the top sig spots, escrowing positions, campaign manager slots, all red trusting people who dare raise observable events from their past they want to remain hidden are obviously not going to be happy.

Both sides ? there are only 2 types of member.

1. Those that want transparent and fair rules that ensure all members are treated equally.

2. AND THOSE THAT DO NOT.


You are a proven liar and scammer. Who gives one fuck what you think lauda. You were a liar and scammer when you came here. You are a liar and scammer now.

The mere notion of you being in a position of trust is quite ludicrous.
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June 12, 2019, 11:05:45 PM
#62

Probably because I was never on your trust list, but those that had me on their trust list were requested to exclude me, and not a peep of objection from any of you objecting here today was heard.
What then is the overlap of users? Surely you can comment on their hypocrisy.

As far as I know there is no overlap of individuals that got requests in both instances. There is however overlap in those that dismissed my arguments against Theymos requesting exclusions personally as if he did not also carry the weight of the admin. They were dismissive of or silent in response to the argument then, now they suddenly support the argument. This is not an argument based on principles, it is an argument based on personalities.

When exactly did this happen? I actually would have to re-read whatever happen before I could say anything.
Context would help.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=917438.msg10072726#msg10072726


I'm sick and tired of big escalations and never-ending feuds over highly-subjective and/or relatively minor things.
Ironically (assuming that people aren't privately lying to me), you've done the exact opposite. A good portion of people from both sides are dissatisfied. Naturally, the scammers celebrate once more.

It has been a day, isn't it a bit early to call this a never ending feud? I see a good portion of people satisfied as well. I think you give yourself too much credit as if you are the only levee between a flood of scammers and the forum.


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The-One-Above-All
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June 12, 2019, 11:14:08 PM
#63

Probably because I was never on your trust list, but those that had me on their trust list were requested to exclude me, and not a peep of objection from any of you objecting here today was heard.
What then is the overlap of users? Surely you can comment on their hypocrisy.

As far as I know there is no overlap of individuals that got requests in both instances. There is however overlap in those that dismissed my arguments against Theymos requesting exclusions personally as if he did not also carry the weight of the admin. They were dismissive of or silent in response to the argument then, now they suddenly support the argument. This is not an argument based on principles, it is an argument based on personalities.

When exactly did this happen? I actually would have to re-read whatever happen before I could say anything.
Context would help.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=917438.msg10072726#msg10072726

Do you really think lauda gives one fuck about anything that happend before to you tec?  he is trying to garner some spin here for his own ends


Theymos has eventually demonstrated he WANTS to provide the standards you were requesting. Let's not fuck it up at this stage.

This is a huge step forward in satoshi's end goal. Every person is treated equally and fairly according to a set of transparent RULES.

This is what the trust system should be. You can prove or demonstrate strongly someone is a scammer then they get a scam tag. Anyone who wants to use red trust for their OWN purposes or to silence whistle blowing have NO place in positions of trust.
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June 12, 2019, 11:19:06 PM
#64

Oh selective enforcement is nothing new here. Look at EFS and the Turkish section. Remind me when theymos did something about him?

I'm sick and tired of big escalations and never-ending feuds over highly-subjective and/or relatively minor things.
Ironically (assuming that people aren't privately lying to me), you've done the exact opposite. A good portion of people from both sides are dissatisfied. Naturally, the scammers celebrate once more.
It has been a day, isn't it a bit early to call this a never ending feud? I see a good portion of people satisfied as well. I think you give yourself too much credit as if you are the only levee between a flood of scammers and the forum.
I am speaking on behalf of messages that I have received today; my own dissatisfaction is irrelevant. I have shown the the system is flawed in many ways (some of which are trivial e.g. no edit/deletion). Whether it created good as you think it will, or whether it created more bad as I belief it will you can argue with whoever participates in the system down the road. My exclusion and vocal dissent against theymos on all platforms will remain until scammers are back where they belong (and who I mean by scammers, you can rightfully ignore anyone I have tagged - think about the tags before my time e.g.).

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The-One-Above-All
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June 12, 2019, 11:22:38 PM
#65

Oh selective enforcement is nothing new here. Look at EFS and the Turkish section. Remind me when theymos did something about him?

I'm sick and tired of big escalations and never-ending feuds over highly-subjective and/or relatively minor things.
Ironically (assuming that people aren't privately lying to me), you've done the exact opposite. A good portion of people from both sides are dissatisfied. Naturally, the scammers celebrate once more.
It has been a day, isn't it a bit early to call this a never ending feud? I see a good portion of people satisfied as well. I think you give yourself too much credit as if you are the only levee between a flood of scammers and the forum.
I am speaking on behalf of messages that I have received today; my own dissatisfaction is irrelevant. I have shown the the system is flawed in many ways (some of which are trivial e.g. no edit/deletion). Whether it created good as you think it will, or whether it created more bad as I belief it will you can argue with whoever participates in the system down the road. My exclusion and vocal dissent against theymos on all platforms will remain until scammers are back where they belong (and who I mean by scammers, you can rightfully ignore anyone I have tagged - think about the tags before my time e.g.).

You totally demonstrated the prior system needed an upgrade by using red trust to facilitate your own scamming.

When people who have OBSERVABLY scammed in the past like you have start giving scam tags to the people that outed you as a lying scammer back then, simply for daring to mention it then you know change was coming fool.

You have demonstrated nothing. Nobody cares about your vocal dissent. We will crush you down every time you try to bully theymos to bend to your scamming and extorting ways.

You are a SCAMMER do you not get that. Who cares what you and your scamming crew of scum say. Fuck off.

Please tell me your username on all other platforms we will be there with the PROOF you are a scammer and piece of shit to demonstrate to people you are not worth listening too.

Stop threatening theymos in public you look foolish. PROVEN Scammers are going to speak out against theymos for pushing out fair and transparent rules that ensure all persons are treated equally. ....LOL ohhh noooo

and then lauda said : theymos stopped me using red trust to silence whistle blowers presenting observable instances of my lying and scamming.....hahaha


Whilst lauda was holding a nice bag of these instamined coins..

Closure or loss of some earnings...hmmmm. No big exchanges will risk it if they try and ban it. It won't have this much volume after the pump is done.

Don't be such an obvious pumper, at least pretend to consider some possible negatives. The fact you believe there was no instamine is the best part.


I'd rather be closed than submit to the foul government. There is no pump going on. We have just started to get the attention of some media, wait for the full impact. There was no instamine, I was there.
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June 12, 2019, 11:32:37 PM
Merited by TECSHARE (1)
#66

Oh selective enforcement is nothing new here. Look at EFS and the Turkish section. Remind me when theymos did something about him?

Very much the same situation. Theymos (and others) PMed DT members with Tecshare on their trust list back then to ask them to reconsider. Its not an uncommon occurrence from Theymos or other DT members. Sometimes you agree, and sometimes you kindly tell them to mind their own business.

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June 12, 2019, 11:36:22 PM
#67

Oh selective enforcement is nothing new here. Look at EFS and the Turkish section. Remind me when theymos did something about him?
Very much the same situation. Theymos (and others) PMed DT members with Tecshare on their trust list back then to ask them to reconsider. Its not an uncommon occurrence from Theymos or other DT members. Sometimes you agree, and sometimes you kindly tell them to mind their own business.
Actually the initial response by theymos is just added proof for Tecshare's claim. Not only are forum-rules being selectively enforced from the top-down (by the forum-staff), so is the trust system. Lauda: Get tagged for one instance of lying on a ridiculous pre-written flag. Quickseller: Gets ignored after 100 cases of lying. I also find it odd that nobody merited that thread, so I just did.
Did I introduce you to clown pepe? He's officially joined the forum.


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June 12, 2019, 11:41:02 PM
#68

Oh selective enforcement is nothing new here. Look at EFS and the Turkish section. Remind me when theymos did something about him?
Very much the same situation. Theymos (and others) PMed DT members with Tecshare on their trust list back then to ask them to reconsider. Its not an uncommon occurrence from Theymos or other DT members. Sometimes you agree, and sometimes you kindly tell them to mind their own business.
Actually the initial response by theymos is just added proof for Tecshare's claim. Not only are forum-rules being selectively enforced from the top-down (by the forum-staff), so is the trust system. Lauda: Get tagged for one instance of lying on a ridiculous pre-written flag. Quickseller: Gets ignored after 100 cases of lying. I also find it odd that nobody merited that thread, so I just did.
Did I introduce you to clown pepe? He's officially joined the forum.



The way I see it the recent changes by Theymos has largely rectified this selective enforcement and created a more equitable system. Furthermore this incident also being applied to you demonstrates to me that it was not an isolated (selective) incident. BTW, stop trying to force memes you fucking normie, its lame.


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Lauda
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June 12, 2019, 11:44:37 PM
#69

The way I see it the recent changes by Theymos has largely rectified this selective enforcement and created a more equitable system.
That's the goal, but it doesn't do that. You can still selectively enforce whatever you want with flag type 1 (you won't get blacklisted). You can't use flag type 2 nor 3 for it though. Additionally, his own actions have enacted the resolution of the previous guideline (you no longer need to have any relation to scamming whatsoever to receive negative ratings), and you can leave negative ratings almost as you see fit (which, for those is worse than before).

Furthermore this incident also being applied to you demonstrates to me that it was not an isolated (selective) incident.
Selective, unless he tags Quicksie for starters and maybe fires EFS et. al.

BTW, stop trying to force memes you fucking normie, its lame.
They are great. The whole world is a clown show, and the forum has joined the game.

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June 12, 2019, 11:44:57 PM
#70

hate having to "defend" BSV and BCH,
This is a good example as to the difference between theymos and lauda.

On one hand, theymos is willing to defend projects he, by all accounts hates (maybe a strong word, IDK), in the name of doing what is fair. On the other hand, lauda, and his supporters are willing to do whatever it takes, regardless of the ethics and legality to maintain power, even if this means disregarding facts, and disregarding substantial evidence of scamming by one of his supporters.

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June 12, 2019, 11:45:24 PM
#71

Wrong EVERYONE is satisfied

You can't possibly think so, I am not satisfied with the new changes, you can see to yourself, look at the rating i left for scammers, they are now almost invisible.

 Not saying i 100% agree with the previous settings, for example non of the feedback on CH profile for example are valid, they are misues/abuse call it how you like it , but you don't make a system that releases a 1000 scammer from their cage only to be fair to 10 innocent members whom have been abused/mistreated by DT members.

there were other  simple solutions to that problem, but Theymos picked the long path that might never see the light.


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June 12, 2019, 11:46:26 PM
#72

hate having to "defend" BSV and BCH,
This is a good example as to the difference between theymos and lauda.

On one hand, theymos is willing to defend projects he, by all accounts hates (maybe a strong word, IDK), in the name of doing what is fair. On the other hand, lauda, and his supporters are willing to do whatever it takes, regardless of the ethics and legality to maintain power, even if this means disregarding facts, and disregarding substantial evidence of scamming by one of his supporters.
Wrong. Theymos is willing to let people get scammed. I am not. That's the difference between liberals and centre-right. Here you are, lying again. Yet theymos won't tag you. Honk-honk some more.  Smiley

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June 12, 2019, 11:46:52 PM
Merited by malevolent (1)
#73

Actually the initial response by theymos is just added proof for Tecshare's claim. Not only are forum-rules being selectively enforced from the top-down (by the forum-staff), so is the trust system. Lauda: Get tagged for one instance of lying on a ridiculous pre-written flag. Quickseller: Gets ignored after 100 cases of lying. I also find it odd that nobody merited that thread, so I just did.

Come now, you've been a moderator as well. You know exactly how harsh the directives Theymos forces upon the poor staff, and the constant state of fear they are in over whether they will still have a position or an account if they disagree with the supreme overlord's opinion.

Is Quickseller on DT? Why isn't Theymos dropping the hammer as well on all of the newbies that have false claims against people? I suppose it really is unfair.

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June 12, 2019, 11:48:28 PM
#74

Come now, you've been a moderator as well. You know exactly how harsh the directives Theymos forces upon the poor staff, and the constant state of fear they are in over whether they will still have a position or an account if they disagree with the supreme overlord's opinion.
You're kidding, right? He's as distant as possible, and as a staff member (especially of a local section) you can reach absurd levels of abuse (as demonstrated by EFS) without any action taking place. Maybe it was like that under BadBear, which I unfortunately only briefly was a part of. Under theymos this is definitely not the case unless things have completely changed since 2016.

Is Quickseller on DT? Why isn't Theymos dropping the hammer as well on all of the newbies that have false claims against people? I suppose it really is unfair.
Firstly, no. Secondly, exaggeration fallacy.

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June 12, 2019, 11:50:45 PM
#75

hate having to "defend" BSV and BCH,
This is a good example as to the difference between theymos and lauda.

On one hand, theymos is willing to defend projects he, by all accounts hates (maybe a strong word, IDK), in the name of doing what is fair. On the other hand, lauda, and his supporters are willing to do whatever it takes, regardless of the ethics and legality to maintain power, even if this means disregarding facts, and disregarding substantial evidence of scamming by one of his supporters.
Wrong. Theymos is willing to let people get scammed. I am not. That's the difference between liberals and centre-right. Here you are, lying again. Yet theymos won't tag you. Honk-honk some more.  Smiley

I support the changes. Am I a liberal? I think pretty much anyone who has spent any time in Politics and Society would disagree. In fact I would describe your approach as totalitarian.


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June 12, 2019, 11:51:43 PM
#76

hate having to "defend" BSV and BCH,
This is a good example as to the difference between theymos and lauda.

On one hand, theymos is willing to defend projects he, by all accounts hates (maybe a strong word, IDK), in the name of doing what is fair. On the other hand, lauda, and his supporters are willing to do whatever it takes, regardless of the ethics and legality to maintain power, even if this means disregarding facts, and disregarding substantial evidence of scamming by one of his supporters.
Wrong. Theymos is willing to let people get scammed. I am not. That's the difference between liberals and centre-right.  Smiley
1, I am not liberal, 2 you are not centre-right. You are authoritarian, who disregards consensus of opposition to what you are doing, and tries (often successfully) to silence those who criticize you. Further, you are corrupt.  

2, you do not care about anyone getting scammed. You do not prevent anyone from getting scammed, rather the opposite, as you have diluted the effect of negative trust so much that people have learned to ignore it. In the process, you have damaged the reputations of many people for arbitrary reasons, often without any kind of violation of even a clear guideline.

Based on your corruption and history of extortion and scamming, you should be given an untrustworthy tag similar to the one that Matthew M Wright has.

Actually the initial response by theymos is just added proof for Tecshare's claim. Not only are forum-rules being selectively enforced from the top-down (by the forum-staff), so is the trust system. Lauda: Get tagged for one instance of lying on a ridiculous pre-written flag. Quickseller: Gets ignored after 100 cases of lying. I also find it odd that nobody merited that thread, so I just did.

Come now, you've been a moderator as well. You know exactly how harsh the directives Theymos forces upon the poor staff, and the constant state of fear they are in over whether they will still have a position or an account if they disagree with the supreme overlord's opinion.

Is Quickseller on DT? Why isn't Theymos dropping the hammer as well on all of the newbies that have false claims against people? I suppose it really is unfair.
He is being intentionally dishonest. He has always used this strong language whenever he was excluded from DT multiple times. I suspect this somewhat has to do with why he kept receiving additional inclusions under the old system. There was never any basis for this kind of language. 

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June 12, 2019, 11:53:23 PM
#77

I support the changes. Am I a liberal? I think pretty much anyone who has spent any time in Politics and Society would disagree.
You don't have to be liberal to support it, you can just be confused. Maybe we need a couple more thousand people to lose money in BSV and Bcash before we start realizing that this actually causes damage. \_(ツ)_/

In fact I would describe your approach as totalitarian.
I would never.

See, more lies. Where's the tag theymos?

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June 12, 2019, 11:55:55 PM
#78

Come now, you've been a moderator as well. You know exactly how harsh the directives Theymos forces upon the poor staff, and the constant state of fear they are in over whether they will still have a position or an account if they disagree with the supreme overlord's opinion.
You're kidding, right? He's as distant as possible, and as a staff member (especially of a local section) you can reach absurd levels of abuse (as demonstrated by EFS) without any action taking place. Maybe it was like that under BadBear, which I unfortunately only briefly was a part of. Under theymos this is definitely not the case unless things have completely changed since 2016.

Is Quickseller on DT? Why isn't Theymos dropping the hammer as well on all of the newbies that have false claims against people? I suppose it really is unfair.
Firstly, no. Secondly, exaggeration fallacy.

It was meant to be sarcasm, I figured you'd pick up on it immediately. And yeah, thats my point. Just because staff members may be coincidentally involved, doesn't mean Theymos is funneling orders down and forcing DT staff or otherwise to obey. Theymos sent a PM asking people to reevaluate their choice, you have sent people PMs asking them to reevaluate their choice, other DT members have done so as well. Because Theymos is distant and there is no impending hammer, it is not selective enforcement by staff or otherwise.

Fine, Is Quickseller on DT? Why isn't Theymos dropping the hammer as well on legendary members that have false claims against people? I suppose it really is unfair.

My point was that you got the attention of Theymos because you are in the position to get it. Any other member on DT doing the same thing would have also gotten the same PM sent.

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June 12, 2019, 11:57:04 PM
Merited by LoyceV (1), mindrust (1), nutildah (1)
#79

I'm sick and tired of big escalations and never-ending feuds over highly-subjective and/or relatively minor things.

I hope that you are not giving up on us.

Seems to me that BIG escalations and never-ending feuds over fairly petty stuff remains part of any active forum in a bitcoin community that involves actual humans.

Don't get me wrong, it seems to me that your various attempts at tweaking forum systems including adding merit and making various tweaks to trust (including this latest flag addition) serve as great attempts to make forum improvements, yet people are a moving target, and I doubt that forum tweaking is ever going to be "over with," and I doubt that BIG feuds over petty squabbles will ever be stamped out of any kind of decent forum, such as this one... accordingly, to me, it seems that BIG feuds and petty squabbles are what humans are all about, so please don't attempt to turn us into bots......     Wink Wink

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June 12, 2019, 11:57:46 PM
#80


LOL, since when were the rules clear around here?  Even the list of rules that are pinned to the board are "unofficial."

This is pretty clear

Quote from: Theymos
Creating or supporting a scammer flag is actively affirming a set of pretty clear fact-statements. If someone knowingly supports a flag containing incorrect fact-statements, then that is crystal-clear abuse, and I will seek to have such people removed from DT ASAP.
   Yes, and now it is clear that one of the ways that theymos will seek to remove people from DT ASAP is to PM a recommendation to DT1 members. Since it is now clear that this is indeed a recommendation rather than a demand, those DT1 members are free to either take these recommendations to heart or take them with a grain of salt. I am uncertain if this matter will be accelerated any further if it does not go in the direction theymos is expecting.
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June 13, 2019, 12:00:31 AM
#81

Just because staff members may be coincidentally involved, doesn't mean Theymos is funneling orders down and forcing DT staff or otherwise to obey.
I didn't mean it like that; I meant that it happens on all levels. I should have clarified.

Because Theymos is distant and there is no impending hammer, it is not selective enforcement by staff or otherwise.
You're looking at it from the opposite perspective. I'm not saying that theymos is causing selective enforcement, I'm saying that he's ignoring it (it happens exactly due to the lack of "impending hammer").

Fine, Is Quickseller on DT? Why isn't Theymos dropping the hammer as well on legendary members that have false claims against people? I suppose it really is unfair.

My point was that you got the attention of Theymos because you are in the position to get it. Any other member on DT doing the same thing would have also gotten the same PM sent.
Are you saying Quickseller is not in any position to get it? Are you saying that people are not harmed by his fake accusations just because there is no contract violation? Oh right, I'm not allowed to tag flag him even though I'm a victim. I can remove myself from DT, not that it matters at all any more. This will not solve selective-enforcement nor solve the opening of the gates to every scammer that ever touched this place (Quickseller included).
I must add: Both Bcash and BSV are no-brainer examples of how this system is broken (ignore user-dispute-related ratings). User: I bought BSV thinking it was Bitcoin, i.e. got scammed? Forum: Sorry, we can't tag this as you had no contract. Roll Eyes

See, more lies. Where's the tag theymos?
Clown-car.

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June 13, 2019, 12:12:19 AM
#82

You're looking at it from the opposite perspective. I'm not saying that theymos is causing selective enforcement, I'm saying that he's ignoring it (it happen exactly due to the lack of "impending hammer").



I'm not following. Who is doing the selective enforcement if not Theymos? Why is it qualified to be selective if not from a position of implied authority?

Are you saying Quickseller is not in any position to get it? Are you saying that people are not harmed by his fake accusations just because there is no contract violation? Oh right, I'm not allowed to tag flag him even though I'm a victim. I can remove myself from DT, not that it matters at all any more. This will not solve selective-enforcement nor solve the opening of the gates to every scammer that ever touched this place (Quickseller included).

I'm saying that as Quickseller is not on DT. As far as feedback goes, Quickseller who is not on DT has the same weight as anyone else not on DT. You are on DT, so your feedback matters more, therefor it was more pressing a matter to point out whatever you did rather than whatever Quickseller did in the case that you both did the exact same thing at the exact same time.

As far as you being allowed to flag him, if I'm understanding, the problem is that you used are improperly using the new flag system. Feedback is for people who haven't contractually scammed you, people that are untrustworthy ie, liars, account farmers, people who like lemons. Flags are for people who have stolen money from you put simply.

Does Theymos get involved in scam accusations? No. Does Theymos get involved in Scam accusations towards staff members? Probably. >>> Same situation


As pointed out earlier, Inaba doesn't have a flag yet. Is that because they don't deserve it? No, its because people prioritize when they make actions and which to take first.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=8198

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June 13, 2019, 12:16:20 AM
#83

I'm not following. Who is doing the selective enforcement if not Theymos? Why is it qualified to be selective if not from a position of implied authority?
The, now withdrawn, rating was selective enforcement. EFS has been long-term abusing his position. I'm not familiar with theymos selectively enforcing staff-related things himself, but this was a case of selective trust-enforcement. It happens on all levels as demonstrated (trust/staff/non-staff doesn't matter).

You are on DT, so your feedback matters more, therefor it was more pressing a matter to point out whatever you did rather than whatever Quickseller did in the case that you both did the exact same thing at the exact same time.
Leaving me negative rating does what about my flag? Nothing. Right.

As pointed out earlier, Inaba doesn't have a flag yet. Is that because they don't deserve it? No, its because people prioritize when they make actions and which to take first.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=8198
I'm not a direct victim of Inaba, so Inaba is not a scammer and I can't flag him. Lovely system, priorities indeed.

You actually need even more people than ever before to get scammed in order to have a sufficient sub set of victims that are able to- and willing to come forward with credible "contract violations" before you can fully establish that the introduced system is garbage. Not enough contract violations = not enough victims able to speak out = silent scamming can and will continue. Incentivizes scamming, de-incentivizes flagging and flag-support. I'll leave you to process that.

Tl;dr: I welcome the idea of separation, but I am disgusted by this implementation which is really just scam-enabling. Have fun.

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June 13, 2019, 12:25:40 AM
#84

Wrong EVERYONE is satisfied

You can't possibly think so, I am not satisfied with the new changes, you can see to yourself, look at the rating i left for scammers, they are now almost invisible.

 Not saying i 100% agree with the previous settings, for example non of the feedback on CH profile for example are valid, they are misues/abuse call it how you like it , but you don't make a system that releases a 1000 scammer from their cage only to be fair to 10 innocent members whom have been abused/mistreated by DT members.

there were other  simple solutions to that problem, but Theymos picked the long path that might never see the light.



No it is simply a reset. It is sadly required to start a NEW path that can not be corrupted.

This is a NEW shift to create an environment where all persons now and in the future are treated fairly and equally.

Don't blame theymos. BLAME EVERY DT WEAK ASS PIECE OF CORRUPT SHIT that did not reverse these abuses when they could have done but rather doubled down on this abuse. Theymos tried to create previously something fair. He gave WARNING AFTER WARNING AFTER WARNIGN AFTER WARNING  RED TRUST IS FOR FUCKING SCAMMERS , you all ignored this. You either all abused the trust system or supported those that did. If you are not going to reverse peoples abuse you are allowing them to do it. Would you stand there and allow an adult to abuse a child in front of you?? saying well I don't support it but you know....I'm not interested in what that adult is doing really, not my business.

How many times must theymos ask, tell, beg and scream red trust should be used only for scammers???

These changes are here because DT's made them essential.

We see you as one of the more fairer and better ones mikey. You will see the new system is going to be WAY WAY WAY  better long term.

Stop worrying so much about saying the MOST GREEDY and MOST STUPID from themselves. Start worrying about pushing forward the adoption of this decentralized trustless end to end arena we want to see built here for the future.

People need to see the bigger picture here. You guys playing whack a mole with 1000 small time scumbags is equal to about a 10th of one huge ICO scam that you can never stop because none of you have the tech chops to demonstrate the white paper is bunk and even if you could demonstrate it is not going to solve all btc's issues you would not stop the MOST GREEDY and MOST STUPID wanting to invest in it.

Free speech and educating people what this forum is about not stopping people getting robbed by themselves. People must learn you don't get a 500 bucks gift card for 20 bucks from a new person on the internets for this new magic money that does not come back once you send it.

Get flagging all that you can and the rest will get busted along the way. However, there is now a procedure to complete, this is for the long term good of the board.

Don't be short sighted here. THEYMOS has perhaps realized you need to build things on STRONG FOUNDATIONS. You need scammers to be REAL SCAMMERS to give them a scam tag else the entire thing become meaningless and people start abusing more and more until the tool to stop scammers becomes a tool for scammers to silence whistle blowers.

Your 1000 2 bit scammers will take about 0.001% of what gox did or any big ICO that raised 100's millions that will fade away to page 20 cmc and never be heard of again but those devs will be back on page one with a new ico under a new name. Only a handful of people here have the tech chops to recognize them or stop them. Even then the most greedy would still insist on investing

Stop believing average joes with a dt badge are making such a big difference in the grand scale. You are only fooling yourselves. To believe that is worth crushing free speech is madness.

REMEMBER ALL DT members are responsible for these changes should have taken heed of the abuse and put a stop to it.. I am sure theymos did not want the extra fucking hassle of coding it all out for the fun of it.  

Theymos was being KIND to lauda here. He has given lauda enough fucking warnings about trust abuse. Lauda has started saying he is the master and theymos is the student. He will NOT obey these rules... etc etc. Theymos should just have bitch slapped that scammer out of DT rather than trying to give him an exit of dignity just getting excluded out.

Suchmoon trying to spin it as some devious and sneaky move has revealed herself now. She will do ANYTHING to retain lauda in DT adding to the very possible explanation that lauda is suchmoon.  Either that or she has demonstrated some MAJOR double standards here.
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June 13, 2019, 12:32:49 AM
Merited by teeGUMES (5)
#85

The selective enforcement part is confusing the hell out of me because you seem to be supporting Tecshare's claim from that thread from years ago linked earlier, yet you don't support the argument he made. I don't know much about what you are talking about with EFS, so unless its very relevant to your point, I'll skip it. If its important, I'll look up some threads about it.

You can leave negative feedback just as you've always done. You can't flag him though. Flag = Help! I've been scammed! Negative feedback = Watch out, this guy is shady! I'm not sure why you are under the impression that you have no recourse against scammers now just because there is now a distinct warning and alarm system. If you haven't been scammed, you post a warning. If you have been scammed, you signal the alarm.

This is a step towards the system that I've been preaching all along while somewhat (and I emphasize somewhat) defending your past feedback. Leaving feedback is a good thing. There are a lot of considerations people may or may not care about when deciding to trade with someone. All Theymos did was separate more severe scam accusations to flags, and freed up the space for people to put more subjective things as regular feedback. Subjective feedback isn't necessarily bad as long as you don't misrepresent it. If you want to tag Quickseller for being a liar, some percentage of the forum might agree with that feedback and decide to take your claim to heart. Others wont, and thats perfect, users forming their own opinions by reading and weighing feedback is the most fair system in my opinion. The flags are for "I"ve been scammed!" and misrepresenting your feedback is the only thing that counts as trust abuse in my eyes anyway.

That is sort of where we are at. If Quickseller didn't take your money, then they deserve feedback not a flag.

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June 13, 2019, 12:36:16 AM
Last edit: June 13, 2019, 12:52:37 AM by Lauda
#86

The selective enforcement part is confusing the hell out of me because you seem to be supporting Tecshare's claim from that thread from years ago linked earlier, yet you don't support the argument he made. I don't know much about what you are talking about with EFS, so unless its very relevant to your point, I'll skip it. If its important, I'll look up some threads about it.
I support his claim that there is selective enforcement, not his particular instance. I haven't gone in depth into that thread to be able to support the particular claim. Meriting =/= support.

You can leave negative feedback just as you've always done. You can't flag him though. Flag = Help! I've been scammed! Negative feedback = Watch out, this guy is shady! I'm not sure why you are under the impression that you have no recourse against scammers now just because there is now a distinct warning and alarm system. If you haven't been scammed, you post a warning. If you have been scammed, you signal the alarm.
This is completely wrong. You forget that:
1) There is no trust score.
2) There is no bold red - it is now orange. Orange is not a colour of danger nor warning.
3) There is no warning written on someone with negative ratings.

Every single scammer ever has been let loose. You seem to actively fight this fact (cognitive dissonance makes accepting this hard, which in return further strengthens the scammers' positions).

The flags are for "I"ve been scammed!" and misrepresenting your feedback is the only thing that counts as trust abuse in my eyes anyway.
Fun. I suggest we add QS next to DT1. Maybe his pal TF too. Where's the contract violation? Clown-forum.

You can stop responding to me and discuss it with others. Claiming that we have a warning system when there is actually no warning written after someone received a negative tag is just factually wrong. The rest you can debate ad-naseum; re: who is right/wrong. I am no longer interested in this particular discussion.

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June 13, 2019, 12:51:14 AM
#87

The selective enforcement part is confusing the hell out of me because you seem to be supporting Tecshare's claim from that thread from years ago linked earlier, yet you don't support the argument he made. I don't know much about what you are talking about with EFS, so unless its very relevant to your point, I'll skip it. If its important, I'll look up some threads about it.
I support his claim that there is selective enforcement, not his particular instance. I haven't gone in depth into that thread to be able to support the particular claim. Meriting =/= support.

You can leave negative feedback just as you've always done. You can't flag him though. Flag = Help! I've been scammed! Negative feedback = Watch out, this guy is shady! I'm not sure why you are under the impression that you have no recourse against scammers now just because there is now a distinct warning and alarm system. If you haven't been scammed, you post a warning. If you have been scammed, you signal the alarm.
This is completely wrong. You forget that:
1) There is no trust score.
2) There is no bold red - it is now orange. Orange is not a colour of danger nor warning.
3) There is no warning written on someone with negative ratings.

Every single scammer ever has been let loose. You seem to actively fight this fact (cognitive dissonance makes accepting this hard, which in return further strengthens the scammers' positions).

The flags are for "I"ve been scammed!" and misrepresenting your feedback is the only thing that counts as trust abuse in my eyes anyway.
Fun. I suggest we add QS next to DT1. Maybe his pal TF too. Where's the contract violation? Clown-forum.

You can stop responding to me and discuss with others about it. Claiming that we have a warning system when there is actually no warning written after someone received a negative tag is just factually wrong. The rest you can debate ad-naseum; re: who is right/wrong. I am no longer interested in this particular discussion.


Let us remember lauda that you are a scammer? so those you brand scammers are likely NOT scammers are they? I mean who trusts the word of a proven scammer and liar??
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June 13, 2019, 12:53:16 AM
#88

lauda is upset he can no longer unilaterally tag people without anyone else's support -- he is upset he can no longer use the threat of negative trust as a weapon to silence his critics

Find the fire hydrant in my Avatar for a prize.
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June 13, 2019, 12:58:35 AM
Merited by mprep (3)
#89


This is completely wrong. You forget that:
1) There is no trust score.
2) There is no bold red - it is now orange. Orange is not a colour of danger nor warning.
3) There is no warning written on someone with negative ratings.

Every single scammer ever has been let loose. You seem to actively fight this fact (cognitive dissonance makes accepting this hard, which in return further strengthens the scammers' positions).


Great, the score was meaningless before anyway. How does one rate how trustworthy someone is on a scale from -999 to 400ish? I don't know what the upper positive trust scale was. I don't think you should get a number for being an alleged liar or successfully trading 1000BTC. I think whoever is going to trade with you should decide the validity of the claim themselves and how much they are willing to trust you with.

The color doesn't matter either, why should green, red, or heliotrope tell you who is trustworthy. Just read a person's feedback and you'll get all of the info you want. I'm against the go ahead and trade recklessly if you see green, or avoid at all costs if you see red mentality that seems to have accidentally been cultivated here. I've traded with actual scammers in the past. You just use escrow. I've requested escrow be used with deep green trusted members. Numbers, scores, and reassuring colors just numb your gut feeling.

Sure, lets add QS to DT1, maybe then you'll feel better when they get a PM sent about them from Theymos for misusing the new system. I have really come to loath the use of the word factual or its derivatives on Bitcointalk. We have a difference of opinion on the definition of what constitutes a warning. if I cared or you cared, we could discuss this further, but you are right we aren't going to come to an agreement and there is no point in wasting our time continuing.


lauda is upset he can no longer unilaterally tag people without anyone else's support -- he is upset he can no longer use the threat of negative trust as a weapon to silence his critics

This is what I don't get. No, the new system DOES unilaterally allow people to tag whoever they want for whatever they want. There is just now a distinction between Flag, this person scammed me, and feedback, this is a warning I think this person is a scammer and here is why. I'm now free to leave people positive or negative feedback for lemons. I've been dangerously close to leaving CryptoHunter lemon feedback to prove a point, but didn't do so because of some people's fixation on feedback as a unified structure of infallible information.