Quickseller is a dangerous person to deal with - avoid

[MoparMiningLLC]

ok and if no victims have come forward - on what evidence do you base your statement that people will lose money if they deal with QS? I will read the other posts above about QS when I get home. I again do not back either side in this. I am just curious what actual evidence there was. If there is valid evidence, I would back the flag.

Hhampuz had a business deal with QS. The link is in the OP: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5129675.msg51116576#msg51116576

The deal ended with QS being fired. A few days later QS started the accusation with no proof whatsoever based on the mere fact of coins being moved by Hhampuz and makes bold claims such as "Hhampuz has stolen the excess money from the BestMixer campaign for his own personal use". Note that he didn't use the trust system (old or new) to label Hhampuz and when called out on this he said this:

I did not say that I wanted others to tag him as a scammer. I said I believe him to be a scammer, and the reason he has not been tagged is due to tribalism.

I do think he should be tagged, but due to the trust system being broken, I don't think anyone tagging him will have any affect any anything. In lieu of tagging him, I will leave this thread open and any potential customers of his (and his current customers) can look at the evidence themselves, including the fact that many of those defending him are being paid his advertisers money by him.

Which makes me think he's seeking to damage HH's business and doesn't have an actual concern or proof of a scam, which would necessitate feedback/flag.

Here is a partial list of other frivolous accusations QS has brought up over the years about people he has grudges against:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5147938.msg51387395#msg51387395

He took 20 BTC from a known scammer to sue Vod: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1179238.msg12406963#msg12406963

There is a clear pattern.

now I have some reading to do and this is the evidence that should have been presented in your OP - at least that is my opinion.

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[suchmoon]

now I have some reading to do and this is the evidence that should have been presented in your OP - at least that is my opinion.

I added this info to the OP so thank you for asking and giving me a chance to clarify even if this doesn't meet your expectation of "evidence". Note that according to the wording on the flags you can oppose if "you believe that it is at least partially false", which is not a particularly high bar so feel free to do that.

[bones261]

I guess what I am saying is that I would like to see some evidence of QS scamming someone and not anything that points to his accusation of Hhampuz

He would have a red box if a victim of his actions came forward. As it stands now, he is a high risk individual with a yellow box warning.

Perhaps if Hhampuz has a loss of business or a certain person in socal gets harrassing phone calls we can put a proper red box on him but for now this will have to suffice.

Theymos should create a special banner tag just for Quickseller. It should be flashing blue and red color.

[TECSHARE]

Time to start making some phone calls

Hawaiian for me. Thanks.

You aren't presenting any evidence he is likely to lose anyone money. Your beliefs are irrelevant.

[...]

suchmoon alleges: Due largely to the factors mentioned in this topic, I believe

Due largely to the frivolous accusation against Hhampuz, I believe users dealing with Quickseller have a high risk of losing money, directly or indirectly, as a result of Quickseller's unpredictable and dangerous actions.

Great, so you admit that this is not only based on his opinion, which is expressly prohibited, but this is also very likely retaliatory.

"suchmoon alleges: Due largely to the factors mentioned in this topic, I believe that anyone dealing with Quickseller is at a high risk of losing money, and guests would be well-advised to avoid doing so. This determination is based on concrete red flags which any knowledgeable & reasonable forum user should agree with, and it is not based on the user's opinions."

You selectively omitted a key part of the requirements for this flag.

[suchmoon]

Great, so you admit that this is not only based on his opinion, which is expressly prohibited, but this is also very likely retaliatory.

No, I don't, I have stated numerous times what specific facts this is based on. If you wanna have the last say - go ahead. I won't entertain this circular word play anymore.

Feel free to report me to admistration too for some mailing list treatment.

[TECSHARE]

Great, so you admit that this is not only based on his opinion, which is expressly prohibited, but this is also very likely retaliatory.

No, I don't, I have stated numerous times what specific facts this is based on. If you wanna have the last say - go ahead. I won't entertain this circular word play anymore.

Feel free to report me to admistration too for some mailing list treatment.

Sorry, but you are the one running in circles. If it is valid to flag people for making an accusation, all we have is the same broken system we had before where the trust system is openly used as a tool of retaliation for punishing users for making reports against certain users. I believe this is intentionally designed to subvert the intent of the system. The system is not here for you to punish people for saying things you don't like, it is here to protect people from fraud and theft. You know this, but you like other mall cops can't cope with your loss of dictatorial control and are clinging to it with every ounce of semantics and twisted logic you can muster.

[Quickseller]

I guess what I am saying is that I would like to see some evidence of QS scamming someone and not anything that points to his accusation of Hhampuz

He would have a red box if a victim of his actions came forward. As it stands now, he is a high risk individual with a yellow box warning.

Perhaps if Hhampuz has a loss of business or a certain person in socal gets harrassing phone calls we can put a proper red box on him but for now this will have to suffice.

Let me see if I am understanding you correctly. You are wanting me to remove my accusation against Hhampuz? This is your concern?

I am not sure if you know this or not, but I have posted blockchain evidence both that Hhampuz took the money, and that he had an outstanding loan as of when he took the money.

[Hhampuz]

I support this flag! Thank you suchmoon for the compelling evidence in OP which makes opposing such a flag quite difficult. Surely it could even be labelled as misuse of the new flag system?

[suchmoon]

Let me see if I am understanding you correctly. You are wanting me to remove my accusation against Hhampuz? This is your concern?

The flag is to warn users about your behavior. Removing the accusation would be a smart thing to do as it is completely bogus but I can't force your to do that nor would that change anything regarding the flag.

I am not sure if you know this or not, but I have posted blockchain evidence both that Hhampuz took the money, and that he had an outstanding loan as of when he took the money.

Which means nothing. I have an outstanding mortgage and I'm quite sure I've made payments on it around the same time when I moved similar amounts of business funds. Doesn't mean I was embezzling business funds to pay the mortgage.


Added exhibits B and C to the OP.

[Quickseller]

I support this flag! Thank you suchmoon for the compelling evidence in OP which makes opposing such a flag quite difficult. Surely it could even be labelled as misuse of the new flag system?

You are a weak minded puppet. The evidence is not compelling. You are a thieving little weasel. You and suchmoon know information contained in the OP is a lie.

Both "B" and "C" listed in the OP are lies. Information in thread "B" directly contradicts how it is described in the OP. The "C" listing is a misrepresentation of the thread in question.

[Hhampuz]

yada yada yada

I'm sorry QS. Not all of us have the time on our hands to be puppet masters

[TECSHARE]

I support this flag! Thank you suchmoon for the compelling evidence in OP which makes opposing such a flag quite difficult. Surely it could even be labelled as misuse of the new flag system?

See everyone? It never stops. This is how tyrants operate. First they punish you for accusing them, then they punish anyone who objects to that abuse. Its always more and more until everyone is in a little box they have the key to.

BTW, by this logic above, I could by your metrics open a flag for Vod for accusing me of lying in a negative rating and directly harming my ability for trade by doing so, and never being able to substantiate it. I would expect you all to support it because it would be no different from your flag on Quickseller. You see how this is just the old system? We have a chance to end this bullshit. Stop being petty cunts.

[Hhampuz]

I support this flag! Thank you suchmoon for the compelling evidence in OP which makes opposing such a flag quite difficult. Surely it could even be labelled as misuse of the new flag system?

See everyone? It never stops. This is how tyrants operate. First they punish you for accusing them, then they punish anyone who objects to that abuse. Its always more and more until everyone is in a little box they have the key to.

Can you tell me more about how that works? I might have some users that I'd like to... put in a box.

BTW, by this logic above, I could by your metrics open a flag for Vod for accusing me of lying in a negative rating and directly harming my ability for trade by doing so, and never being able to substantiate it. I would expect you all to support it because it would be no different from your flag on Quickseller. You see how this is just the old system? We have a chance to end this bullshit. Stop being petty cunts.

Go ahead and open up that flag, but if you do you best be supporting the flag on QS. Nobody is stopping you, really.

[TECSHARE]

I support this flag! Thank you suchmoon for the compelling evidence in OP which makes opposing such a flag quite difficult. Surely it could even be labelled as misuse of the new flag system?

See everyone? It never stops. This is how tyrants operate. First they punish you for accusing them, then they punish anyone who objects to that abuse. Its always more and more until everyone is in a little box they have the key to.

Can you tell me more about how that works? I might have some users that I'd like to... put in a box.

BTW, by this logic above, I could by your metrics open a flag for Vod for accusing me of lying in a negative rating and directly harming my ability for trade by doing so, and never being able to substantiate it. I would expect you all to support it because it would be no different from your flag on Quickseller. You see how this is just the old system? We have a chance to end this bullshit. Stop being petty cunts.

Go ahead and open up that flag, but if you do you best be supporting the flag on QS. Nobody is stopping you, really.

There is plenty of room in the box, but I think Suchmoon is sleeping right now so I will have to show you later.

I am stopping me, because I am trying to show you goobers you have an opportunity for a reset here and you are immediately setting it on fire just to continue your little obsessions. Quickseller has no authority. You do. Grow the fuck up and get over it.

[Hhampuz]

There is plenty of room in the box, but I think Suchmoon is sleeping right now so I will have to show you later.

I am stopping me, because I am trying to show you goobers you have an opportunity for a reset here and you are immediately setting it on fire just to continue your little obsessions. Quickseller has no authority. You do. Grow the fuck up and get over it.

Standing silently and allowing something to happen is just as bad as taking part. You do you, I won't be idle and let someone fall prey to QS's manipulative behaviour.

[TECSHARE]

There is plenty of room in the box, but I think Suchmoon is sleeping right now so I will have to show you later.

I am stopping me, because I am trying to show you goobers you have an opportunity for a reset here and you are immediately setting it on fire just to continue your little obsessions. Quickseller has no authority. You do. Grow the fuck up and get over it.

Standing silently and allowing something to happen is just as bad as taking part. You do you, I won't be idle and let someone fall prey to QS's manipulative behaviour.

You and I both know Quickseller is more of a threat to himself than you or anyone else. No one really believes your horse shit chicken little, people just don't like him so they are willing to persecute him. Show me a real scammer with proof and you can pour gasoline on him and I will light the match.

[Hhampuz]

You and I both know Quickseller is more of a threat to himself than you or anyone else. No one really believes your horse shit chicken little, people just don't like him so they are willing to persecute him. Show me a real scammer with proof and you can pour gasoline on him and I will light the match.

We could always do both .

I've not always disliked QS, I mean there was a reason for me even hiring him in one my campaigns but you see how far that took me? If you engage with QS regarding anything that involves money or otherwise you are at a high risk to get burned. I truly believe that and who would I be unless I warned others about it? (I'm not the only one either).

If that is wrong, theymos can oppose the flag and blacklist me + others (he already did with Lauda). I'll still be in support of it, some things are worth far more around here than the imaginary power that is being on DT.

[nutildah]

The real reason why QS is far from trustworthy and quite the opposite is because he has a long, established history of flat out lying about things. For years he's been taking personal grudges and turning them into baseless accusations, posting hundreds of times in accusatory threads even after it has been explained to him repeatedly why he is mistaken.

Let's go through some of them:

Hhampuz embezzling signature campaign funds from BestMixer - completely fabricated allegation based 100% on conjecturing and without real, substantiating evidence of claims

Is theymos okay with Blazed being on DT1 when he refuses to account for x00 btc - another series of unsubstantiated allegations in an attempt to damage the standing of Blazed, lauda, and minerjones

owlcatz dox information - doxing attempt on a user who did not scam anybody, not much more needs to be said

Former Staff member Lauda has a pill addiction - not a single shred of evidence produced by QS in 9 pages of discussion

Scammer TMAN - vindictive nonsense demonstrated to be wholly inaccurate

minerjones backing out of multiple auctions - posted in Scam Accusations even though no one had been scammed, clearly a smear attempt on MJ's reputation

Requesting proof of trade between Zepher and TMAN[Zepher engaging in fake trades - QS believes the lack of blockchain evidence on the forum of a trade between 2 highly trusted members warrants a thread claiming they are engaging in "fake trades"

Dooglus is supporting ponzis - Scam Accusation against dooglus for fixing bugs in a script known to be used by Ponzis (he never scammed anyone, nor said he "supported ponzis")

He does have some insightful threads and posts from time to time, but based on the whole of his behavior over the years, I wouldn't trust QS with a wooden nickel.

[TECSHARE]

The real reason why QS is far from trustworthy and quite the opposite is because he has a long, established history of flat out lying about things. For years he's been taking personal grudges and turning them into baseless accusations, posting hundreds of times in accusatory threads even after it has been explained to him repeatedly why he is mistaken.

Let's go through some of them:

Hhampuz embezzling signature campaign funds from BestMixer - completely fabricated allegation based 100% on conjecturing and without real, substantiating evidence of claims

Is theymos okay with Blazed being on DT1 when he refuses to account for x00 btc - another series of unsubstantiated allegations in an attempt to damage the standing of Blazed, lauda, and minerjones

owlcatz dox information - doxing attempt on a user who did not scam anybody, not much more needs to be said

Former Staff member Lauda has a pill addiction - not a single shred of evidence produced by QS in 9 pages of discussion

Scammer TMAN - vindictive nonsense demonstrated to be wholly inaccurate

minerjones backing out of multiple auctions - posted in Scam Accusations even though no one had been scammed, clearly a smear attempt on MJ's reputation

Requesting proof of trade between Zepher and TMAN[Zepher engaging in fake trades - QS believes the lack of blockchain evidence on the forum of a trade between 2 highly trusted members warrants a thread claiming they are engaging in "fake trades"

Dooglus is supporting ponzis - Scam Accusation against dooglus for fixing bugs in a script known to be used by Ponzis (he never scammed anyone, nor said he "supported ponzis")

He does have some insightful threads and posts from time to time, but based on the whole of his behavior over the years, I wouldn't trust QS with a wooden nickel.

So why is it then you aren't opening a flag against Vod? He has been responsible for all the same acts as listed above. I have proven he was lying about me using his own contradicting words to justify his abusive negative ratings. If lying is the metric then about half of this forum can go into a dumpster. Also who gets to decide what is a lie and not just a difference of opinion, or simply a mistaken conclusion? Lying necessitates intent, and you have no way to prove in this case what exists only in the mind of another. The purpose of this system is to protect people from fraud, not to put ointment on your inflamed butt holes.

You and I both know Quickseller is more of a threat to himself than you or anyone else. No one really believes your horse shit chicken little, people just don't like him so they are willing to persecute him. Show me a real scammer with proof and you can pour gasoline on him and I will light the match.

We could always do both .

I've not always disliked QS, I mean there was a reason for me even hiring him in one my campaigns but you see how far that took me? If you engage with QS regarding anything that involves money or otherwise you are at a high risk to get burned. I truly believe that and who would I be unless I warned others about it? (I'm not the only one either).

If that is wrong, theymos can oppose the flag and blacklist me + others (he already did with Lauda). I'll still be in support of it, some things are worth far more around here than the imaginary power that is being on DT.

Then don't deal with him. See how simple that is? This is all about the fact he upset you. He didn't do any harm to you other than agitating you, and everyone knows it. Flagging people for making too many accusations is not a precedent that should be set, regardless of how stupid or baseless they are. Baseless accusations fail on their own lack of merits, no additional action is needed.

However punishing accusations again opens right up that 4 lane highway of abuse of being able to silence LEGITIMATE accusations against the people here MOST ABLE to rob massive amounts of value from the most amount of people. You are essentially putting the entire community at risk so you can play your little pretend game he is a threat and get your revenge. This demonstrates to me you don't give a fuck about this community or its safety, you just want your pound of flesh at any cost. You, by trying to justify these types of flags are far more of a threat to the security of the forum than Quickseller could ever be.

[Hhampuz]

~

So how long should we wait from someone scamming to them not being held liable for that any longer? Just so that I know what guidelines to use. Some old time scammers could be getting a 2nd round of fun here soon if we base it off of a certain amount of years .