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Author Topic: Issuing loans in Bitcoin, how we could do it  (Read 878 times)
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June 21, 2019, 02:52:05 PM
 #61

The only way you the lender can get your loan with interest is by way given out the loan to who have equivalent collateral of the sum of loan amount you give to the person.




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June 21, 2019, 09:06:49 PM
 #62

I started to think about it. How a bank and folks could issue loans to people?

Currently, when you need to borrow money, your banker just edits your balance account and create money magically. You then pay back monthly.
Banks won't be able to do that with Bitcoin with its limited supply. You can't print bitcoins.

But now, between folks. Let's say I'm the banker and you're the customer looking to borrow money to buy a house. I can lend you the money but how to be sure you will pay me back with full interests? With banks, the solution is easy, the bank seizes the house and you can't do something. But the average Joe hasn't the same 'power' than a bank to collect a debt.
I think it is in the beginning Stage So I don't know how the procedure is going out and I don't really do it it previously that's why if anyone really make the loan like this in it will be definitely helpful by sharing your thoughts.

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June 22, 2019, 10:39:45 AM
 #63

If people would pay their debt back, there would no money printed out of thin air.
On the contrary. The money would still be printed, it would just be absorbed back in to the bank's finance books upon repayment of the loans.

If everyone paid back all their debts quickly, then banks would have very few outstanding loans, and as such, have much lower exposure to risks of defaulting whilst also be collecting very little in the way of interest. I suspect they would address this by starting to offer larger and riskier loans, which would make the problem worse rather than better.

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June 22, 2019, 11:25:00 AM
 #64

Loans issued in Bitcoins is a win win situation between the borrower and lender. If the  price of Bitcoins goes up after issuing, the lender has more to pay in fiate and vice versa for the borrower.
That's exactly why I would never take a loan in bitcoin.I in the life already faced a situation when I took on credit the car in $ but not in national currency.After some time, $ began to cost 2 times more,respectively, and I had to pay 2 times more.Since the salary I received in the national currency and not in $ and the salary was at the same level.

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June 22, 2019, 08:14:54 PM
 #65

I in the life already faced a situation when I took on credit the car in $ but not in national currency.After some time, $ began to cost 2 times more,respectively, and I had to pay 2 times more.Since the salary I received in the national currency and not in $ and the salary was at the same level.

Mind explaining your situation a bit? This is what I think have understood so far; you took out a loan through a foreign institution in USD, but used that to fund the car in your own country's currency? If your native fiat currency is so weak that it halves in value, why take out a loan in USD? Problems with fiat currencies that lose value play for a long time before they really tank against USD, so it can't catch you by surprise.

That being said, I didn't know you could take out a loan in a currency completely different to the currency you are being paid with. I would have assumed that a basic check of your finances would expose the risk and for that reason the loan wouldn't be granted to you. Perhaps things are different outside Europe.

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June 22, 2019, 09:15:06 PM
 #66

I in the life already faced a situation when I took on credit the car in $ but not in national currency.After some time, $ began to cost 2 times more,respectively, and I had to pay 2 times more.Since the salary I received in the national currency and not in $ and the salary was at the same level.

Mind explaining your situation a bit? This is what I think have understood so far; you took out a loan through a foreign institution in USD, but used that to fund the car in your own country's currency? If your native fiat currency is so weak that it halves in value, why take out a loan in USD? Problems with fiat currencies that lose value play for a long time before they really tank against USD, so it can't catch you by surprise.

That being said, I didn't know you could take out a loan in a currency completely different to the currency you are being paid with. I would have assumed that a basic check of your finances would expose the risk and for that reason the loan wouldn't be granted to you. Perhaps things are different outside Europe.

That's what I also wondered, how did he get a loan in a currency other than his own? I supposed he took the loan from the car dealership, as it's been trending since. They don't do basic check correctly, sometimes not at all. Even if they did on his case they couldn't estimate a potential currency crash

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June 22, 2019, 09:59:33 PM
 #67

Loans issued in Bitcoins is a win win situation between the borrower and lender. If the  price of Bitcoins goes up after issuing, the lender has more to pay in fiate and vice versa for the borrower.
That's exactly why I would never take a loan in bitcoin.I in the life already faced a situation when I took on credit the car in $ but not in national currency.After some time, $ began to cost 2 times more,respectively, and I had to pay 2 times more.Since the salary I received in the national currency and not in $ and the salary was at the same level.

Good point. You wouldn't want to take a loan in BTC (and spend it) if your only income is in fiat currency. That's effectively shorting Bitcoin. If the price rises, it becomes that much harder to pay off the principal.

It works fine though if your income is paid in BTC. In a world where salaries and goods/services are commonly paid for with Bitcoin, BTC-denominated loans will make more sense.

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June 22, 2019, 10:24:58 PM
 #68

The problem will be :- the changing the price of Bitcoins .
If you are giving someone 0.1 BTC and it somehow changed into millions would you still be okay ? With not taking the current amount and taking only the past amount ?

That's something that will be problematic.
Also people take money to actually buy things of Everyday life therefore they will have to convert this into normal money that would actually be problematic since you will be paying a lot more .

From a debtor point of view it is pretty problematic.



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June 22, 2019, 10:41:11 PM
 #69

The only way you the lender can get your loan with interest is by way given out the loan to who have equivalent collateral of the sum of loan amount you give to the person.

in this case it does not guarantee that collateral will have equal value when prices move, imagine when you give loans in bitcoin and with altcoins as collateral and when prices move differently then the value is not the same as at first, this is a risky business in this industry
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June 23, 2019, 03:20:37 AM
 #70

I started to think about it. How a bank and folks could issue loans to people?

Currently, when you need to borrow money, your banker just edits your balance account and create money magically. You then pay back monthly.
Banks won't be able to do that with Bitcoin with its limited supply. You can't print bitcoins.

But now, between folks. Let's say I'm the banker and you're the customer looking to borrow money to buy a house. I can lend you the money but how to be sure you will pay me back with full interests? With banks, the solution is easy, the bank seizes the house and you can't do something. But the average Joe hasn't the same 'power' than a bank to collect a debt.
That's how the capitalist system works, with the conditions that you signed before you borrowed funds, you wouldn't be able to do
anything if you couldn't pay the debt. the bank would easily lend money because he didn't lose anything

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June 24, 2019, 06:16:28 AM
 #71

I started to think about it. How a bank and folks could issue loans to people?

Currently, when you need to borrow money, your banker just edits your balance account and create money magically. You then pay back monthly.
Banks won't be able to do that with Bitcoin with its limited supply. You can't print bitcoins.

But now, between folks. Let's say I'm the banker and you're the customer looking to borrow money to buy a house. I can lend you the money but how to be sure you will pay me back with full interests? With banks, the solution is easy, the bank seizes the house and you can't do something. But the average Joe hasn't the same 'power' than a bank to collect a debt.

There are crypto-based lending platforms out there. Some require collateral via another crypto, so not sure how effective that is. They also require you to verify your identity, so I'm sure, but they may be able to take legal actions if necessary. We're currently creating an infographic on the subject. Some names to look into are: Celsius Network, Nuo Network, Dharma.io, Compound Finance.

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June 24, 2019, 08:51:07 AM
 #72

That being said, I didn't know you could take out a loan in a currency completely different to the currency you are being paid with.
If, as he says, his national currency has halved in respect to USD over a short period of time, then he certainly lives in a country with rampant inflation. It's likely that some companies will not sell products or give out loans/credit (especially for expensive products like cars) in the national currency if it is so unstable. This will be doubly true if it is a global company rather than a national one.

Let's assume he lives somewhere like Argentina. 5 years ago, the exchange rate was around 5 pesos to the dollar. Now it is around 40 pesos to the dollar. It makes sense that companies don't want to expose themselves to long term loans and risk in such a rapidly devaluing currency. What doesn't make sense is OP taking out a loan knowing that his own currency is devaluing so quickly.

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June 24, 2019, 10:47:34 PM
 #73

That being said, I didn't know you could take out a loan in a currency completely different to the currency you are being paid with.
If, as he says, his national currency has halved in respect to USD over a short period of time, then he certainly lives in a country with rampant inflation. It's likely that some companies will not sell products or give out loans/credit (especially for expensive products like cars) in the national currency if it is so unstable. This will be doubly true if it is a global company rather than a national one.

Let's assume he lives somewhere like Argentina. 5 years ago, the exchange rate was around 5 pesos to the dollar. Now it is around 40 pesos to the dollar. It makes sense that companies don't want to expose themselves to long term loans and risk in such a rapidly devaluing currency. What doesn't make sense is OP taking out a loan knowing that his own currency is devaluing so quickly.

Savvy Argentinians like to take out loans in pesos and save up in USD (or more and more in BTC). In fact, if they don't do it more it's only because the interest rates are ginormous and the banks won't give money so easily, but there are many ways you can use inflation in your favor with a bit of imagination.

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June 25, 2019, 10:45:54 AM
 #74

The problem will be :- the changing the price of Bitcoins .
If you are giving someone 0.1 BTC and it somehow changed into millions would you still be okay ? With not taking the current amount and taking only the past amount ?

That's something that will be problematic.
Also people take money to actually buy things of Everyday life therefore they will have to convert this into normal money that would actually be problematic since you will be paying a lot more .

From a debtor point of view it is pretty problematic.

If you lend money to someone, let's say 5 BTC, you expect to receive back the 5 BTC + interests. No matter if the price jumps to $1 million, all I want is what has been written in the contract. Like if you lend 100k € you want the same in Euros no matter if the USD/EUR decreased by 10%.

What's the problem with exchanges, what will be paid more? When people really need money they are ready to accept anything.

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June 25, 2019, 10:54:41 AM
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This is the sad thing about loaning cryptocurrencies it's either you offer them another cryptocurrency as collateral or you have to offer something else in return. That something else I'm talking about is something you cannot just send virtually for you to have a loan, these kinds of exchange requires to be in written form to bind them legally stating that if the loanee didn't pay what he owes (+interest) the loaner will have the full ownership of what he have given them as collateral. With this where I think you need to appear physically in a bank I think it makes no sense for you to still get BTC rather than straight out Fiat currency if you still plan to convert it to fiat later on.

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automaticmoney
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June 25, 2019, 06:35:19 PM
 #76

they are many projects which issue loans on bitcoin but finally they didn't survive the loaning mechanism on bitcoin so i feel blockchain based loans may nt be successfull
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June 25, 2019, 07:41:24 PM
 #77

Its too messy for it to work and traditional banks lend out money they don't have.  Bitcoin doesn't work with fractional lending since you have to actually own the btc to lend it out.

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June 27, 2019, 06:27:38 AM
 #78

I started to think about it. How a bank and folks could issue loans to people?

Currently, when you need to borrow money, your banker just edits your balance account and create money magically. You then pay back monthly.
Banks won't be able to do that with Bitcoin with its limited supply. You can't print bitcoins.

But now, between folks. Let's say I'm the banker and you're the customer looking to borrow money to buy a house. I can lend you the money but how to be sure you will pay me back with full interests? With banks, the solution is easy, the bank seizes the house and you can't do something. But the average Joe hasn't the same 'power' than a bank to collect a debt.

There are crypto-based lending platforms out there. Some require collateral via another crypto, so not sure how effective that is. They also require you to verify your identity, so I'm sure, but they may be able to take legal actions if necessary. We're currently creating an infographic on the subject. Some names to look into are: Celsius Network, Nuo Network, Dharma.io, Compound Finance.

Have a good day,
The Cyberius team.
Legal action? That is when you are dealing with someone within the lender’s jurisdiction, I mean maybe the same country, imagine someone in United Stated lending Bitcoin to someone is China, how would he take legal action when the person defaulted, I think there is still more to this crypto lending that I am yet to understand too.

I have never thought of going into cryptocurrency loan business or think of getting a loan through it, but I think we all have to learn more on this for better understanding, because I really can’t seems to flow along when I see issues on cryptocurrency loan.

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Kimonoe
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June 27, 2019, 08:18:02 AM
 #79

I started to think about it. How a bank and folks could issue loans to people?

Currently, when you need to borrow money, your banker just edits your balance account and create money magically. You then pay back monthly.
Banks won't be able to do that with Bitcoin with its limited supply. You can't print bitcoins.

But now, between folks. Let's say I'm the banker and you're the customer looking to borrow money to buy a house. I can lend you the money but how to be sure you will pay me back with full interests? With banks, the solution is easy, the bank seizes the house and you can't do something. But the average Joe hasn't the same 'power' than a bank to collect a debt.

There are crypto-based lending platforms out there. Some require collateral via another crypto, so not sure how effective that is. They also require you to verify your identity, so I'm sure, but they may be able to take legal actions if necessary. We're currently creating an infographic on the subject. Some names to look into are: Celsius Network, Nuo Network, Dharma.io, Compound Finance.

Have a good day,
The Cyberius team.
Legal action? That is when you are dealing with someone within the lender’s jurisdiction, I mean maybe the same country, imagine someone in United Stated lending Bitcoin to someone is China, how would he take legal action when the person defaulted, I think there is still more to this crypto lending that I am yet to understand too.

I have never thought of going into cryptocurrency loan business or think of getting a loan through it, but I think we all have to learn more on this for better understanding, because I really can’t seems to flow along when I see issues on cryptocurrency loan.
although I have not opened the requirements that must be fulfilled to get a loan, but I am not interested in borrowing it, as you have explained, whether we will be carried away in international law, I do not understand. but it is very scary to imagine it


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June 27, 2019, 10:07:29 AM
 #80

I think Bitcoin lending businesses will have their own management. Sure, they will not be able to give another person their country and only provide National ID.
they can only lend to those who can pay interest and they can control their whereabouts.

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