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Author Topic: Why is BTC at $10,000 in the USA and also at $76,000 in Zimbabwe?  (Read 459 times)
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July 01, 2019, 08:23:22 PM
Merited by OgNasty (1)
 #1

What are the reasons for this price difference?
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July 01, 2019, 09:12:43 PM
 #2

What are the reasons for this price difference?
The hard inflation of the local currency which isn't valued anymore seems to cause a drastic increase in the demand for the usage of bitcoin within the country for various needs. This looks to be the prime reason for such a drastic growth in price on localbitcoins trading platform.

Over the year such a scenario took place with India, and the difference wasn't this high. By that time the difference between India and rest of the world was around $2500. The reason behind such a difference was termed to be the demonetization of the Indian currencies.
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July 01, 2019, 09:21:14 PM
Merited by Foxpup (3), redsn0w (2), dothebeats (1)
 #3

The hard inflation of the local currency which isn't valued anymore seems to cause a drastic increase in the demand for the usage of bitcoin within the country for various needs. This looks to be the prime reason for such a drastic growth in price on localbitcoins trading platform.
Partly, but that's not the full story.

Last week the Zimbabwean government banned all foreign currency, including the US dollar, and stated that the government's RTGS dollar is the only acceptable currency. This new currency, which was launched in February after the old Zimbabwe dollar was demonetized back in 2009, is already starting to see the same rampant inflation which crashed the old currency. People don't like being paid in it because it rapidly devalues, and the price of goods and services in RTGS dollars is rapidly increasing. Because of all this, US dollars are now both illegal, but also much more stable and more in demand than their own currency, and so attract a premium price on black markets.

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July 01, 2019, 10:08:55 PM
 #4

Last week the Zimbabwean government banned all foreign currency, including the US dollar, and stated that the government's RTGS dollar is the only acceptable currency. This new currency, which was launched in February after the old Zimbabwe dollar was demonetized back in 2009, is already starting to see the same rampant inflation which crashed the old currency. People don't like being paid in it because it rapidly devalues, and the price of goods and services in RTGS dollars is rapidly increasing. Because of all this, US dollars are now both illegal, but also much more stable and more in demand than their own currency, and so attract a premium price on black markets.

So in this case, we can somehow see that a complete revamp of a nation's currency does not save itself from yet another instance of massive devaluation and hyperinflation. It really needs to overhaul the government and its officials because they can't apparently control the situation, even with a new currency. I can see why the citizens can't trust the new currency, as it was met with legal issues and uncertainties even from the lawmen in the said country, and that's why bitcoin, together with USD is the most prized currency currently, even if it was banned by the government.

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July 01, 2019, 10:29:34 PM
Merited by Foxpup (2), LoyceV (2), bones261 (2), dothebeats (1)
 #5

So in this case, we can somehow see that a complete revamp of a nation's currency does not save itself from yet another instance of massive devaluation and hyperinflation.
The currency per se is not the issue, and creating a new one doesn't solve any of the problems Zimbabwe is facing. The reasons behind the hyperinflation a decade ago are complex and multifactorial, but include a variety of issues which have not been addressed in any meaningful way since then - corruption, lack of confidence in the government, government sponsored violence, widespread unemployment and poverty, declining farming and manufacturing, etc. Simply launching a new currency in the same economic environment that destroyed the old one will obviously be met with the same results.

This article makes some interesting points: https://www.fin24.com/Economy/Africa/zims-dollar-returns-a-decade-after-it-became-worthless-20190624
Quote
“People aren’t sure that there’s something backing the currency. There’s no way that something like this will be maintained. People will not trust the currency. It will promote more off-market activity even more if that’s possible.”
If the people don't believe the currency is worth anything, then it will become worthless. Inflation is already at 100% for this newly launched currency. I don't think it will survive very long.

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July 01, 2019, 10:44:54 PM
 #6

The reasons behind the hyperinflation a decade ago are complex and multifactorial, but include a variety of issues which have not been addressed in any meaningful way since then - corruption, lack of confidence in the government, government sponsored violence, widespread unemployment and poverty, declining farming and manufacturing, etc. Simply launching a new currency in the same economic environment that destroyed the old one will obviously be met with the same results.

Fair point. It's like trying to grow the same tree on the same soil in which other similar trees died. It simply wouldn't work out.

If the people don't believe the currency is worth anything, then it will become worthless. Inflation is already at 100% for this newly launched currency. I don't think it will survive very long.

Which puts trust as a huge factor in making things work for the government. That's why most systems that require trust will always have a weakness. If one party does not trust the other enforcing the rules, resistance would be met and failure is always looming, just like RTGS currently.

This article makes some interesting points: https://www.fin24.com/Economy/Africa/zims-dollar-returns-a-decade-after-it-became-worthless-20190624
Quote
“People aren’t sure that there’s something backing the currency. There’s no way that something like this will be maintained. People will not trust the currency. It will promote more off-market activity even more if that’s possible.”

Thanks for the read.

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July 01, 2019, 11:41:37 PM
Merited by LoyceV (2)
 #7

The hard inflation of the local currency which isn't valued anymore seems to cause a drastic increase in the demand for the usage of bitcoin within the country for various needs. This looks to be the prime reason for such a drastic growth in price on localbitcoins trading platform.
Partly, but that's not the full story.

Last week the Zimbabwean government banned all foreign currency, including the US dollar, and stated that the government's RTGS dollar is the only acceptable currency. This new currency, which was launched in February after the old Zimbabwe dollar was demonetized back in 2009, is already starting to see the same rampant inflation which crashed the old currency. People don't like being paid in it because it rapidly devalues, and the price of goods and services in RTGS dollars is rapidly increasing. Because of all this, US dollars are now both illegal, but also much more stable and more in demand than their own currency, and so attract a premium price on black markets.
Wait for real? I had no clue about this currency change of Zimbabwe up until now, and seems like Zimbabwe are only fucking up their economy more by the day.

I read this article by bloomberg, and the country is soo fucked, they are lacking passports, and almost everything else a country could possibly need to survive. Then I stumbled upon another article where they plan on initially printing 400 million$, but that's not gonna help them if their policies and everything else that destroyed their economy still remain the same. That's only putting more fuel to fire, aka more inflation, more people getting involved in black market trades, and for what we could tell, a massive economic downfall that could impact more than what we will ever foresee.

While some smart people would be wise to get into the Zimbabwean bitcoin market by buying it from the cheaper markets from the ROW and sell at a premium in their local country if its any at all possible, the most of them won't, mainly because there isn't enough money whatsoever in the hands of the citizens.

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July 02, 2019, 01:28:19 AM
Merited by suchmoon (4), Foxpup (2), LoyceV (2), bones261 (2)
 #8

Wait for real?
In summary:

The Zimbabwean dollar goes through massive hyperinflation and is re-denominated 3 times. First in 2006 at 1000:1, then again in 2008 at 10,000,000,000:1 (ten billion to one), then again in 2009 at 1,000,000,000,000:1 (a trillion to one), meaning 1 dollar of the final re-denomination is worth 1025 dollars (10 septillion dollars) of the initial currency.
In January 2009, Zimbabwe officially legalizes the use of foreign currencies, and the Zimbabwean dollar is pretty much abandoned by everyone.
In 2014, the Zimbabwean government releases bond coins, which are pegged to the USD, which is now the de-facto currency of the country.
In June 2015, the Zimbabwean dollar is de-monetized (removed from circulation and no longer deemed legal tender), and is exchanged for USD at an exchange rate of 35 quadrillion to 1.
In 2018, the government follows up their bond coins with bond notes. Despite the supposed pegging of these, they trade for around 3:1 or 4:1 against actual USD.
In February 2019, the government launches a new currency called the RTGS dollar, made up of account balances, and the previously issued bond coins and notes.
Last week, they officially declare the RTGS dollar the only legal tender in the country, and outlaw all foreign currencies, including the US dollar, which is what almost every shop and service is currently using.
RTGS is already seeing high inflation rates, and is currently trading at around 11:1 against USD.

Here's another very good article about the situation: https://mg.co.za/article/2019-06-24-why-no-ones-buying-the-new-zimbabwean-dollar

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July 02, 2019, 05:01:42 AM
 #9

After reading @o_e_l_e_o replies I must say if Zimbabwe government were wise, accepting bitcoin as their country's Currency could be a starting ground for solving the country's problem as bitcoin can't be affected by inflation. Country's like these are perfect example of why bitcoin is the solution to the worlds currency inflation problem. After doing so, then the government can shift thier focus to developing the countries economy and fighting corruption to better the country. The US Dollars is been given too much power and as far smaller country still look up to the USD to determine the value of their currency the rate of inflation of those currency will continue increasing.

Our local Naira is been affected yearly by inflation too currently it's been exchanged around $1 = N350 +/- that's why most genuine Nigerians are getting attracted to bitcoin as for every $1 gained we get around 350 +/- naira.  Which means we get twice profit, one for holding bitcoin (Price increase) and second for exchanging USD to Naira




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July 02, 2019, 05:11:00 AM
 #10

What's stopping them from just getting bitcoin on a regular exchange? Is the access to non-governmental internet prohibited? Is the access to a computer at all kind of rare? Many have cell phones these days, even people in 3rd world countries. Seems like bitcoin would be hard to stop there without just outright making it illegal. With the worldwide interconnectedness I don't understand why the large price differential, seems like (assuming access to electronic accounts) they could just buy at the regular world market rate for bitcoin.
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July 02, 2019, 06:56:27 AM
 #11

Seems like bitcoin would be hard to stop there without just outright making it illegal.
That's exactly what the government did. There is a large African exchange called Golix which used to trade pretty large volumes in Zimbabwe, which has had to shutdown their operations in the country. They have had their fiat accounts frozen, and have even stopped operating their bitcoin ATM in the capital, Harare. The vast majority of international exchanges like Coinbase, Bitstamp or Kraken, don't accept accounts from Africa. From what I've read, it seems some are travelling over the border to South Africa and buying there - these may well be the same people who are offering to sell on localbitcoins for $76,000.

The real irony is the government made bitcoin illegal because of its potentially "destabilizing effects" on their financial system.

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July 02, 2019, 01:33:58 PM
 #12

I read this article
I am curious and click on link to read, but it seems that the link to given article is dead, or you mislinked it. Not sure. If you mislinked it, please fix. Thank you so much.
In another article, with this hyperinflation rate, I wonder that Zimbabwe will become a second Venezuela or not.
Quote
The original Zimbabwean dollar was abandoned just over a decade ago, when annual inflation had reached 89 700 000 000 000 000 000 000% (that’s 89.7-sextillion percent)
https://mg.co.za/article/2019-06-24-why-no-ones-buying-the-new-zimbabwean-dollar

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July 02, 2019, 02:23:42 PM
 #13

Last week the Zimbabwean government banned all foreign currency, including the US dollar, and stated that the government's RTGS dollar is the only acceptable currency. This new currency, which was launched in February after the old Zimbabwe dollar was demonetized back in 2009, is already starting to see the same rampant inflation which crashed the old currency. People don't like being paid in it because it rapidly devalues, and the price of goods and services in RTGS dollars is rapidly increasing. Because of all this, US dollars are now both illegal, but also much more stable and more in demand than their own currency, and so attract a premium price on black markets.
Which in a result have same impact as before. Bitcoin is REAL international value and local currency is garbage. So less and less people want to exchange their Bitcoin for this local currency which is no suprise at all. So someone willing to do it, wanting premium price.
Explained Smiley

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July 02, 2019, 02:29:22 PM
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Seems like bitcoin would be hard to stop there without just outright making it illegal.
That's exactly what the government did. There is a large African exchange called Golix which used to trade pretty large volumes in Zimbabwe, which has had to shutdown their operations in the country. They have had their fiat accounts frozen, and have even stopped operating their bitcoin ATM in the capital, Harare. The vast majority of international exchanges like Coinbase, Bitstamp or Kraken, don't accept accounts from Africa. From what I've read, it seems some are travelling over the border to South Africa and buying there - these may well be the same people who are offering to sell on localbitcoins for $76,000.

The real irony is the government made bitcoin illegal because of its potentially "destabilizing effects" on their financial system.

Thanks, that makes a bit of sense. If I understand correctly then they are selling (trying to) bitcoin at huge prices but they are accepting payment in Zimbabwe currency, not dollars, we are just reading about what the value would be converted to dollars. So the sellers are hedging against the expected massive and rapid inflation of the local currency, in that case the price doesn't seem out of whack. I wonder how the regular folks there cope.
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July 02, 2019, 03:26:55 PM
 #15

Bitcoin is not a global currency. At All.
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July 02, 2019, 03:49:20 PM
Merited by OgNasty (1)
 #16

Don't believe discrepancies that are this high, at most it is a 10-20 % premium that is paid in certain countries.  I've seen this happen in Korea, Iran, and a few other countries.  A lot of money can be made through arbitrage if you have the right connections set up and act quickly.
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July 02, 2019, 04:38:11 PM
 #17

Don't believe discrepancies that are this high, at most it is a 10-20 % premium that is paid in certain countries.  I've seen this happen in Korea, Iran, and a few other countries.  A lot of money can be made through arbitrage if you have the right connections set up and act quickly.

It was proven that this was fake news.

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July 03, 2019, 09:02:45 PM
 #18

Don't believe discrepancies that are this high, at most it is a 10-20 % premium that is paid in certain countries.  I've seen this happen in Korea, Iran, and a few other countries.  A lot of money can be made through arbitrage if you have the right connections set up and act quickly.

It was proven that this was fake news.

What was fake news?  The entire 76K fiasco was fake??
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July 04, 2019, 05:03:51 AM
 #19

This is due to capitalism. It is the main reason. Capitalism, corruption and greed. Healthy crypto-anarchism with a share of socialism will save this world. I hope so =)
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July 04, 2019, 07:59:10 AM
Merited by Foxpup (2)
 #20

Is this $76.000 paid in US dollars, or is it the converted amount paid in Zimbabwean dollars? My guess would be it's the latter, meaning the real exchange rate is much lower than the official exchange rate.
And that makes sense: a US dollar is still worth (more or less) the same a week later, while a Zimbabwean dollar is instantly worth much less. That makes the Zimbabwean dollar something you quickly need to get rid off, so exchanging it to Bitcoin is much better than keeping, even if you have to pay a much higher rate.

After reading @o_e_l_e_o replies I must say if Zimbabwe government were wise, accepting bitcoin as their country's Currency could be a starting ground for solving the country's problem as bitcoin can't be affected by inflation.
I think the underlined part is the problem Tongue
A much more conventional way would be to officially switch to using US dollars.



According to Mycelium on my phone, BitcoinVenezuela.com has an exchange rate of 32374460.75 EUR per BTC. I don't think I'll get a truckload of euro bills if I would go there with 1 Bitcoin.

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