REEE: [US Only] Impeachment Vote

[TECSHARE]

If the guy was fired because of pressure from the US former administration related to the VP's son's affairs, I would like to see him reinstated with full back pay.

This has been overlooked in the discussion, and yet the prosecutor does seem to be an innocent victim in these power plays.

Then again the situation may have been more complex than that and we don't have the whole story. For example  Biden may have been confronted with a coercive demand and responded with a bigger coercive demand.

This is a fair and logical viewpoint. Yes, its true none of us know exactly what happened, and its easier to make assumptions and jump to conclusions based on our own political leanings.

The way I read thing was the prosecutor was (supposed to be) fired for being corrupt and reasons wholly unrelated to Biden's son, and of course he would say otherwise in an official statement. But we just don't know the whole story at this point.

Its going to be hard to find a non-partisan source that can put all the information together without introducing political bias; perhaps impossible.

It was personally fun for me to watch Adam Schiff grill Joseph McGuire, from an entertainment standpoint, and I still believe Trump is going to come out of this a lot more battered than Biden, but we can only wait and see what happens next.

What could have Ukraine possibly have used to coerce Biden unless he was up to something illegal? This false equivalency as if this could go either way is absolutely retarded. The corruption from the Bidens has long been documented and available to anyone who doesn't expect to be spoon fed like an invalid. The ENTIRE PURPOSE of pointing the finger at Trump here is the classic Saul Alinsky 101 tactic of accusing your opponents of the crimes you yourself are guilty of to confuse the situation and give any accusations the appearance of being empty and retaliatory when the exact opposite is true.

Trump didn't do a damned thing wrong in this case, or the thousands of other proven empty accusations against him. The corrupt old guard is staring down the end of a rope and are gasping for their last breaths of air trying desperately to save their own asses by creating as much chaos and confusion as possible. The only people still entertaining this narrative are either confirming their bias or are too brain dead to have even a moderate mount of critical thought that some one else didn't instruct them to have. This has nothing to do with partisanship. This is about reality vs fiction, and this false equivalency is just an excuse to not have to think critically and to fence sit because it is more convenient to not pick sides and throw your hands up and pretend no one knows.

[1713554845]

1713554845

[1713554845]

1713554845

[1713554845]

1713554845

[1713554845]

1713554845

[1713554845]

1713554845

[Astargath]

You would think at this point, these 'investigations' would be illegal. Sure you can investigate someone when there is suspicion of a crime but when does it become harrasment?

[nutildah]

You would think at this point, these 'investigations' would be illegal. Sure you can investigate someone when there is suspicion of a crime but when does it become harrasment?

I'm sure Washington Democrats would answer that there has been suspicion of crimes all along, and it is their duty to carry out such investigations. Unfortunately for them they are indeed stigmatized with a bit of "Boy who cried wolf" syndrome for constantly shitting their pants about everything Trump has done over the last 3 years. So if something actually damning did happen, nobody is going to believe them.

I have yet to see anybody formally accuse Biden of a crime.

[Daniel91]

You would think at this point, these 'investigations' would be illegal. Sure you can investigate someone when there is suspicion of a crime but when does it become harrasment?

A decision approved in parliament cannot be illegal.
In terms of abuse, it is a very stretchable category.
What about illegal immigrants on the border with Mexico?
Or with civilians in the Yemeni war?
The president of America is the most powerful man in the world, so it's too daunting to say he was abused.
Let the legal process come to an end and determine the truth.

[Spendulus]

You would think at this point, these 'investigations' would be illegal. Sure you can investigate someone when there is suspicion of a crime but when does it become harrasment?

A decision approved in parliament cannot be illegal.
In terms of abuse, it is a very stretchable category.
What about illegal immigrants on the border with Mexico?
Or with civilians in the Yemeni war?
The president of America is the most powerful man in the world, so it's too daunting to say he was abused.
Let the legal process come to an end and determine the truth.

I am of the opinion that the stuff Trump has been putting up with long ago degenerated into simple harassment.

[TECSHARE]

You would think at this point, these 'investigations' would be illegal. Sure you can investigate someone when there is suspicion of a crime but when does it become harrasment?

I'm sure Washington Democrats would answer that there has been suspicion of crimes all along, and it is their duty to carry out such investigations. Unfortunately for them they are indeed stigmatized with a bit of "Boy who cried wolf" syndrome for constantly shitting their pants about everything Trump has done over the last 3 years. So if something actually damning did happen, nobody is going to believe them.

I have yet to see anybody formally accuse Biden of a crime.

I know you are a fan of using suspicion alone as a basis for condemning people, but the judicial system requires facts, none of which the Democrat party has ever presented to support their position. It is their duty to serve the nation, not to erase the 2016 election results at all costs. The stigma they have is completely of their own creation. If they actually had any facts or evidence to present people would listen, but they never do.

Biden most certainly has been accused of many well documented crimes. Regarding legal action never being taken against Biden, who are you going to make a report to about a mob boss when you know he owns the sheriff? All that will mean is your ass. That is of course until a new sheriff is in town who is willing and able to bring these crimes to light. Most people don't understand the depth of corruption we are talking about here.

The USA has suffered an 8 year long (or longer) coup, and those responsible assumed they would again have control in 2016, but they failed. Now that those with the genuine interests of Americans at heart are again in control, there still remains many of the old corrupt guard still in place, and there is about to be a controlled burn to route them out and bring their complicity in this plot to light.  Why would people complicit in these crimes work to expose them? This goes for the media as well.

[PopoJeff]

Did anyone else stop to consider........ this "whistleblower" reportedly got the info 2nd or third hand.  Was someone in that chain of rumor a Trump plant ?, passing word of 'there's impeachable evidence over there' ? All with the intent to bait the Dems into their typical spastic feeding frenzy, which in the end, only really bought the spotlight back onto the Biden crimes committed there.

Look over here for bad Trump stuff.
Looks there and only finds Biden bad stuff. (That everyone forgot about)

I think Trump cat-fished the idiot Dems, knowing they'd trip over themselves for "evidence". (While forgetting that they buried the Biden crime), only to re-expose the Biden crimes.

Hook, line, and sinker

[nutildah]

Did anyone else stop to consider........ this "whistleblower" reportedly got the info 2nd or third hand.  Was someone in that chain of rumor a Trump plant ?, passing word of 'there's impeachable evidence over there' ? All with the intent to bait the Dems into their typical spastic feeding frenzy, which in the end, only really bought the spotlight back onto the Biden crimes committed there.

Look over here for bad Trump stuff.
Looks there and only finds Biden bad stuff. (That everyone forgot about)

I think Trump cat-fished the idiot Dems, knowing they'd trip over themselves for "evidence". (While forgetting that they buried the Biden crime), only to re-expose the Biden crimes.

Bad Biden stuff has been out for 3 years, and nothing ever became of it. If something could have, it would have by now.

Bad Trump stuff (in the context of Ukraine) has been out for less than a week now and its already been the grounds for an impeachment inquiry.

Perhaps one set of bad stuff is actually worse than the other... Just perhaps.

[TECSHARE]

Did anyone else stop to consider........ this "whistleblower" reportedly got the info 2nd or third hand.  Was someone in that chain of rumor a Trump plant ?, passing word of 'there's impeachable evidence over there' ? All with the intent to bait the Dems into their typical spastic feeding frenzy, which in the end, only really bought the spotlight back onto the Biden crimes committed there.

Look over here for bad Trump stuff.
Looks there and only finds Biden bad stuff. (That everyone forgot about)

I think Trump cat-fished the idiot Dems, knowing they'd trip over themselves for "evidence". (While forgetting that they buried the Biden crime), only to re-expose the Biden crimes.

Bad Biden stuff has been out for 3 years, and nothing ever became of it. If something could have, it would have by now.

Bad Trump stuff (in the context of Ukraine) has been out for less than a week now and its already been the grounds for an impeachment inquiry.

Perhaps one set of bad stuff is actually worse than the other... Just perhaps.

What bad Trump stuff? So far all I have seen is 100% speculation and accusations based on nothing. They would have started an impeachment hearing over an excessively loud fart if they thought it would work. This is evidence of nothing but the democrat's desperation. Actually the Biden stuff has been in public since he was in office. Now what could possibly stop the prosecution of a very powerful connected corrupt man while he still held office?

Furthermore you pretend as if the dems wouldn't be screeching autistically calling it retribution for Russiagate if this was brought to light any sooner. Three years of unending obsessive scrutiny over Trump supposed election meddling, turnabout is fair play. That is of course unless you never gave a fuck about election meddling and only cared about the part that made Trump look suspect.

[snakey]

Trump, Narendra Modi, Borris Johnson are Alpha male. It is speculated that atleast 35 Republican Party members are in favour to vote against Trump, but i fear this is just the buzz and Trump will come out of this situation more stronger than ever.

For those who have not read Trump's hilarious tweet then read it here : https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor  , He openly calls it Sexual Presidential Harassment.

[PopoJeff]

Wondering...... just wondering here......

   If maybe congress should get back to work doing what they wered hire for. Write and create bills and laws.  Instead of the never-ending witch hunt of nothingness.  They've wasted so much time and money looking for that VHS tape that Trump did rewind before returning it to Blockbuster.

    The only thing Democrats have accomplished in the last 3 years, is to piss off everyone who isnt a staunch left-wing dingbat.  Now, even the moderate middle will be motivated to vote a straight R ticket. Everyone is sick and tired of hearing the non-stop bitching and whining from the left.  Get back to doing what you were elected for !

[Spendulus]

If the guy was fired because of pressure from the US former administration related to the VP's son's affairs, I would like to see him reinstated with full back pay.

This has been overlooked in the discussion, and yet the prosecutor does seem to be an innocent victim in these power plays.

Then again the situation may have been more complex than that and we don't have the whole story. For example  Biden may have been confronted with a coercive demand and responded with a bigger coercive demand.

This is a fair and logical viewpoint. Yes, its true none of us know exactly what happened, and its easier to make assumptions and jump to conclusions based on our own political leanings.

The way I read thing was the prosecutor was (supposed to be) fired for being corrupt and reasons wholly unrelated to Biden's son, and of course he would say otherwise in an official statement. But we just don't know the whole story at this point.
....

I just watched the video where Biden boasts about coercing them to fire the prosecutor, though.

Looks pretty damning.

[Astargath]

Wondering...... just wondering here......

   If maybe congress should get back to work doing what they wered hire for. Write and create bills and laws.  Instead of the never-ending witch hunt of nothingness.  They've wasted so much time and money looking for that VHS tape that Trump did rewind before returning it to Blockbuster.

    The only thing Democrats have accomplished in the last 3 years, is to piss off everyone who isnt a staunch left-wing dingbat.  Now, even the moderate middle will be motivated to vote a straight R ticket. Everyone is sick and tired of hearing the non-stop bitching and whining from the left.  Get back to doing what you were elected for !

Exactly, how can anyone trust the Democrats when the only thing they want is power? Why aren't they simply working hard to come up with new and optimized regulations, laws, etc to improve the country? Nah, instead, their political plan is to remove Trump.

[nutildah]

I just watched the video where Biden boasts about coercing them to fire the prosecutor, though.

Looks pretty damning.

The video's been out for a while though, and nobody cared about it before this whole Trump Ukraine phone call stuff came to light. I could be mistaken but it sounds like part of the condition for release of the loan was that they fire this particular prosecutor guy. We don't know if it had anything to do with Biden's son -- asserting that it did (at this phase) is pure conjecture. What we do know for sure is that Trump asked a foreign leader for the favor of digging up dirt on a political opponent.

I suppose one good thing that happened is the whole affair shed light on how rampant political cronyism and nepotism is... Seems like Hunter Biden had no qualifications to have his particular job there whatsoever, and that he was just there because his last name is "Biden." Still not a crime, but it is the most unattractive thing about Biden in my eyes thus far (other than him already being pretty milquetoast and uninspiring as a politician).

[Astargath]

I just watched the video where Biden boasts about coercing them to fire the prosecutor, though.

Looks pretty damning.

The video's been out for a while though, and nobody cared about it before this whole Trump Ukraine phone call stuff came to light. I could be mistaken but it sounds like part of the condition for release of the loan was that they fire this particular prosecutor guy. We don't know if it had anything to do with Biden's son -- asserting that it did (at this phase) is pure conjecture. What we do know for sure is that Trump asked a foreign leader for the favor of digging up dirt on a political opponent.

I suppose one good thing that happened is the whole affair shed light on how rampant political cronyism and nepotism is... Seems like Hunter Biden had no qualifications to have his particular job there whatsoever, and that he was just there because his last name is "Biden." Still not a crime, but it is the most unattractive thing about Biden in my eyes thus far (other than him already being pretty milquetoast and uninspiring as a politician).

''foreign leader for the favor of digging up dirt on a political opponent.'' No, we don't, nowhere in the transcript says that LOL, nothing about political dirt on his opponent.

[Spendulus]

I just watched the video where Biden boasts about coercing them to fire the prosecutor, though.

Looks pretty damning.

The video's been out for a while though, and nobody cared about it before this whole Trump Ukraine phone call stuff came to light. I could be mistaken but it sounds like part of the condition for release of the loan was that they fire this particular prosecutor guy. We don't know if it had anything to do with Biden's son -- asserting that it did (at this phase) is pure conjecture. What we do know for sure is that Trump asked a foreign leader for the favor of digging up dirt on a political opponent.

I suppose one good thing that happened is the whole affair shed light on how rampant political cronyism and nepotism is... Seems like Hunter Biden had no qualifications to have his particular job there whatsoever, and that he was just there because his last name is "Biden." Still not a crime, but it is the most unattractive thing about Biden in my eyes thus far (other than him already being pretty milquetoast and uninspiring as a politician).

Earlier you mentioned, regarding Trump even asking or bringing up the subject of Biden, his son and the prosecutor events, that Trump saying ANYTHING is fundamentally coercive.

I have a comment on that. It's trump that when in conversation between very powerful people, there is an element of high pressure. But here we get into a realm of the grammar and tactics of "Diplomacy." There is a right way to ask someone, and there is a right way to answer (both in the positive and the negative.) These are well understood and these methods are literally thousands of years old.

There is no way that anything negative can be constructed from the conversation of Trump in question.

By contrast Biden comes across and sounds like a crude, low life gangster.

The tactic here is to accuse Trump of exactly what the accuser is guilty of. A la Sal Alinsky tactics.

I'm personally, sick of it. Lying over and over for political advantage, to a scale really never seen before. The initial Russia hoax, the Kavanagh circus, now this.

My contributions to Trump and the Republicans who have came to his party, albeit late and after his election are going to be 10x those in the past.

[Spendulus]

''foreign leader for the favor of digging up dirt on a political opponent.'' No, we don't, nowhere in the transcript says that LOL, nothing about political dirt on his opponent.

What does this sound like to you?



He's looking for information that will put Biden in a good light?

No. He says "It sounds horrible to me."

Regardless, why is he talking to him about Giuliani? Isn't Giuliani supposed to be Trumps "personal" lawyer? If he really was looking into corruption from a standpoint of national interest, why insist that your personal lawyer meet with the president of a foreign nation?....

The Ukranian brought up Giuliani, not Trump.

RE "looking for information that will put Biden in a good light" etc, the firing of the prosecutor stopped the finding and assessment of information, period. Good or bad. That's what Biden did. I have to say here that I couldn't care less if the findings were good or bad. They are related to the conduct of Biden's son, who is not a political figure. But it matters to Biden.

Why doesn't that sound "horrible?"

What's certainly horrible is the orchestrated harassment of Trump via a fictional dossier, followed by the orchestrated harassment in the Kavanaugh hearing accompanied by a series of high questionable and outright fictional complaints, followed by this complaint about this phone call, leaked by a party who didn't even know the content but had only heard a rumor. We call that "heresay." This is a trend of consistent behavior at this point. Used to be, this was only seen in the weeks before a presidential election, when the Dems would pull at the last minute some dirt.

Now it seems to be non stop.

[BADecker]

^^^ The scary answer is, to completely bring down the USA.

We have a President who is worshipped by some like a king or the Pope. But foundational law in the USA is built on the 12-person jury, and jury nullification. The king-President can be overruled by the 12-person jury.

What this means is, the people formally have the power, even though they don't use it much. It's written right into the foundational documents of government. Amendments 6 and 7 show the power direct, and Amendment 9 helps to direct people to the laws and rights that they had before the Constitution... laws and rights that are still existing in power today.

That's a pretty solid foundation. So, whatever is being promoted in the USA, by people of power throughout the world, is designed to bring the strongest country in the world down, because the bottom-line power in this country is under the control of the people rather than dictators.

[nutildah]

The Ukranian brought up Giuliani, not Trump.

That's correct but I don't understand why Giuliani is involved at all... If you're doing something for the sake of national interest, why involve your personal lawyer? Obviously Giuliani was previously talking to the Ukraine president... why? Just doesn't make sense to me...

RE "looking for information that will put Biden in a good light" etc, the firing of the prosecutor stopped the finding and assessment of information, period. Good or bad. That's what Biden did. I have to say here that I couldn't care less if the findings were good or bad. They are related to the conduct of Biden's son, who is not a political figure. But it matters to Biden.

Why doesn't that sound "horrible?"

What evidence do you have that they are related to the conduct of Biden's son? It would appear that the investigation started prior to Hunter Biden's involvement with Burisma.

The National Anti-Corruption Bureau of Ukraine (NABU) said an investigation was ongoing into permits granted by officials at the Ministry of Ecology for the use of natural resources to a string of companies managed by Burisma.

But it said the period under investigation was 2010-2012, and noted that this was before the company hired Hunter Biden.

“Changes to the board of Burisma Limited, which are currently the object of international attention, took place only in May 2014, and therefore are not and never were the subject of (the anti-corruption bureau’s) investigation,” the bureau’s statement said.

Hunter Biden was a director on Burisma’s board from 2014-2018, according to documents filed by the company in Cyprus, where it is registered.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-whistleblower-ukraine-buris/ukraine-agency-says-allegations-against-burisma-cover-period-before-biden-joined-idUSKBN1WC1LV

Actually, this is a great article that tackles the other side, but the author concludes that it requires a much deeper investigation into the matter before any conclusions can be drawn:

Today, two questions remain.

One is whether it was ethically improper or even illegal for Biden to intervene to fire the prosecutor handling Burisma’s case, given his son’s interests. That is one that requires more investigation and the expertise of lawyers.

The second is whether Biden has given the American people an honest accounting of what happened. The new documents I obtained raise serious doubts about his story’s credibility. And that’s an issue that needs to be resolved by voters.

[Spendulus]

The Ukranian brought up Giuliani, not Trump.

That's correct but I don't understand why Giuliani is involved at all... If you're doing something for the sake of national interest, why involve your personal lawyer? Obviously Giuliani was previously talking to the Ukraine president... why? Just doesn't make sense to me...

I'm sure that's an answerable question.

RE "looking for information that will put Biden in a good light" etc, the firing of the prosecutor stopped the finding and assessment of information, period. Good or bad. That's what Biden did. I have to say here that I couldn't care less if the findings were good or bad. They are related to the conduct of Biden's son, who is not a political figure. But it matters to Biden.

Why doesn't that sound "horrible?"

What evidence do you have that they are related to the conduct of Biden's son? It would appear that the investigation started prior to Hunter Biden's involvement with Burisma.....

Post #60 and... https://www.scribd.com/document/427618359/Shokin-Statement

The evidence is the sworn testimony of the fired prosecutor.

I don't know if Biden's threat to with hold over a billion in US Aid unless his son was let off the hook is illegal under US law.

Something that's gone under the radar is that in the same conversation, Trump asks the Ukranian to look into the matter of the DNC server, which he says is in the hands of a Ukranian oligarche.