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Author Topic: ODI cricket and general cricketing discussion [self - mod]  (Read 133615 times)
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November 17, 2019, 02:56:39 PM
 #601

The shorter version of the game will not help in developing proper batsman for the longer version of the game and in the future we will not see legit batsman who are capable of batting for a longer period of time and even if the ICC promote these longer version it will not last longer if all the cricket boards emphasis on T20 as it is a cash cow and now we have T10, its funny how things changes rapidly in a short period.
Seriously? Entertainment and fun are the primary reasons why anyone watches these matches which is where the T-20 format is leagues ahead when compared to both ODI and test formats. T-20 format made Cricket a lot more entertaining for me and many others and we love it.

I think Clement Kaliyar is talking about the main difference of Test format and Shorter format (T-20 and T-10). however i agree with your statement that T-20 format is much more entertaining for spectators but you can't deny the fact that there are hardly any T-20 specialist who can perform in the Test cricket.
First T-20 and now T-10 leagues are more attractive and helpful for players just because of this now we have very less test lover batsmen and in near future are going to lost them like Caronlina Parrots because these short formats helps in finances and fitness and more players will love in future even ICC trying to save test match future which is very hard day by day.
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November 17, 2019, 03:13:19 PM
 #602

I think Clement Kaliyar is talking about the main difference of Test format and Shorter format (T-20 and T-10). however i agree with your statement that T-20 format is much more entertaining for spectators but you can't deny the fact that there are hardly any T-20 specialist who can perform in the Test cricket.
You are spot on, you cannot learn the proper technique but starting to play cricket and your only intention is to smash the ball, you will fair in the T20 and T10 format and to an extent in ODI but proper technique is necessary for a batsman and without a good defense you cannot survive in Test cricket and i doubt in the future we will see a proper Test batsman as more importance is given to T20 format.

@ for everyone who mistook what i was trying to tell, i never argued that the shorter format is not entertaining, it is the best evolution and entertaining to the core and i talked about inter gender matches and for some of the tube lights, it was a pun intended and not a recomendation as that is the only variation that is not experimented as all the experiments are done already, T20, T10 and now day night Test matches.
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November 17, 2019, 03:51:23 PM
 #603

First T-20 and now T-10 leagues are more attractive and helpful for players just because of this now we have very less test lover batsmen and in near future are going to lost them like Caronlina Parrots because these short formats helps in finances and fitness and more players will love in future even ICC trying to save test match future which is very hard day by day.
There is no time for everyone to spend much time to watch sports as this is a really competitive world and it is good that the sport is evolving according to the situation and the fans are liking it and now a days you need extreme fitness to play these shorter format as you need to be a good fielder too as every runs counts and could impact the result.
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November 18, 2019, 01:45:15 AM
 #604

There is no time for everyone to spend much time to watch sports as this is a really competitive world and it is good that the sport is evolving according to the situation and the fans are liking it and now a days you need extreme fitness to play these shorter format as you need to be a good fielder too as every runs counts and could impact the result.

I agree that time is now scarce with everyone. But even then, in my opinion T10 is just taking it too far. I don't think that 60 balls is enough for 11 players. With T20, there is still some time to build an innings. But in T10, you are expected to smash every ball for a four or a six. That will make the game too much monotonous. Although it is a bit longer, I would still prefer T20 over T10.

But the advantage with T10 is that you can have three matches in 6 hours, just like what they are doing at Abu Dhabi T10. The workload is reduced, and the players and the spectators are happy. The TV broadcasters are happy was well, as their revenue remains the same. It is too early to predict whether T10 will replace T20. I hope that doesn't happen. 

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November 18, 2019, 10:40:32 AM
 #605

You are spot on, you cannot learn the proper technique but starting to play cricket and your only intention is to smash the ball, you will fair in the T20 and T10 format and to an extent in ODI but proper technique is necessary for a batsman and without a good defense you cannot survive in Test cricket and i doubt in the future we will see a proper Test batsman as more importance is given to T20 format.
It is obvious that different formats are suitable for different players which is why teams usually have separate squads for each format. The truth is that I usually only watch T-20 matches these days and love them(Makes sense why it is being given more importance).

I was never really a big fan of tests to begin with though I do know there is a certain section of Cricket fans who love it. Also, proper technique is a requirement in all formats.

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November 18, 2019, 11:48:01 PM
 #606

I was never really a big fan of tests to begin with though I do know there is a certain section of Cricket fans who love it. Also, proper technique is a requirement in all formats.
It hard to be a fan of Test matches unless it is the Ashes, the rest of the matches are boring to be frank but i will not miss the Ashes as we have seen some of the best Test match cricket during that tournament in recent memories, if you are having good hand eye coordination and power you can go a long way in the shorter formats and you really do not need that much technique Wink.
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November 19, 2019, 01:29:40 AM
 #607

I was never really a big fan of tests to begin with though I do know there is a certain section of Cricket fans who love it. Also, proper technique is a requirement in all formats.
It hard to be a fan of Test matches unless it is the Ashes, the rest of the matches are boring to be frank but i will not miss the Ashes as we have seen some of the best Test match cricket during that tournament in recent memories, if you are having good hand eye coordination and power you can go a long way in the shorter formats and you really do not need that much technique Wink.

One of the reasons why test cricket has become too boring is due to the fact that those matches in the sub-continent are being played on pitches which give zero assistance to the pace bowlers. We no longer have bowlers of the caliber of Dale Steyn, Glenn McGrath and Shoaib Akhtar. The role of the fast bowlers in cricket have been replaced by medium pacers such as Bumrah.

Another reason is that the gap between India and the rest of the teams have grown, and this makes any test involving India at home a boring affair. On the other hand, Ashes is interesting because it is played between two evenly matched sides. The decline of South Africa and West Indies is also not making things any better. They used to be strong test sides.

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November 19, 2019, 05:05:35 PM
 #608

I was never really a big fan of tests to begin with though I do know there is a certain section of Cricket fans who love it. Also, proper technique is a requirement in all formats.
It hard to be a fan of Test matches unless it is the Ashes, the rest of the matches are boring to be frank but i will not miss the Ashes as we have seen some of the best Test match cricket during that tournament in recent memories, if you are having good hand eye coordination and power you can go a long way in the shorter formats and you really do not need that much technique Wink.

This time the Ashes was very interesting for a number of reasons. First of all a lot of controversy surrounded the England team (and specifically on Ben Stokes), after their scandalous win during the 2019 CWC. And secondly, it was sort of comeback series for Steve Smith, after missing more than a year as a result of the ICC ban. In the end, it turned out to be a direct two-way fight between Smith and Stokes.
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December 03, 2019, 03:26:18 PM
 #609

One of the reasons why test cricket has become too boring is due to the fact that those matches in the sub-continent are being played on pitches which give zero assistance to the pace bowlers.
--Wake up bro its 2019 not 1999. Indian pitches changed drastically in recent time under Virat kohli , you don't need to believe me on this please check records of last 4 years or so.

--UAE pitches are spin friendly but you might want to check Mohammad Abbas record there.

--Bangladesh's pitches offer spin but how many matches they host every year? not much..

--Srilanka is a mixed bag.

Quote
We no longer have bowlers of the caliber of Dale Steyn, Glenn McGrath and Shoaib Akhtar. The role of the fast bowlers in cricket have been replaced by medium pacers such as Bumrah.

If you want to criticize current system then please use good example. stop living in the past, we have good seam bowlers in the world cricket right now such as Starc, Cummins, Bumrah, Archer, Shami, Rabada etc.  

If you consider speed major factor then so called medium pacer Bumrah highest speed is 153 km/h and average is 142 km/h. on the another hand Macgrath highest bowling speed was 145km and average 131km/h.


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December 03, 2019, 04:01:37 PM
 #610

^^^ I am not sure how they classify the pace bowlers (medium, medium fast, fast medium, fast), but I have never seen Bumrah being classified as a fast bowler. He is always shown as a medium pacer. On the other hand, Starc and Cummins are some of the bowlers who are classified as genuine fast bowlers. Also, among the Indian bowlers Umesh Yadav and Varun Aaron are being regarded as the fastest bowlers.
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December 03, 2019, 05:30:11 PM
 #611

^^^ I am not sure how they classify the pace bowlers (medium, medium fast, fast medium, fast), but I have never seen Bumrah being classified as a fast bowler. He is always shown as a medium pacer. On the other hand, Starc and Cummins are some of the bowlers who are classified as genuine fast bowlers. Also, among the Indian bowlers Umesh Yadav and Varun Aaron are being regarded as the fastest bowlers.


 Hope this helps, Jasprit Bumrah is a fast bowler who clocks over 140 Km/h  and hence he is called as a fast bowler and not a medium pacer, he might not have a fast run up nor action but the ball reaches the batsman at a very high pace.
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December 03, 2019, 05:38:54 PM
 #612



Hope this helps, Jasprit Bumrah is a fast bowler who clocks over 140 Km/h  and hence he is called as a fast bowler and not a medium pacer, he might not have a fast run up nor action but the ball reaches the batsman at a very high pace.

When I watch live cricket matches on TV, Star Sports always label him as "right arm medium". There is no doubt that he is very quick (and that may be one of the reasons behind his recent injury troubles), but I guess the classification takes in to account a few other things as well (such as the length of the run-up). I am not sure about this.. but someone who knows about it can explain the difference between fast, medium fast and fast medium.
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December 03, 2019, 05:44:03 PM
Last edit: December 03, 2019, 06:00:06 PM by JSRAW
Merited by AB de Royse777 (2), akhjob (1)
 #613

^^^ I am not sure how they classify the pace bowlers (medium, medium fast, fast medium, fast),

Test Cricket

  • FastBowler : 140 km/h average and top speed 145+ (Cummins, Starc, Bumrah,Shami, Umesh , Rabada, Ferguson,Boult,Archer,Mark Wood,Oshane Thomas)
  • Fast medium: Minimum 130 km/h average and Top speed 145km/h (Mustafizur Rahman, Ishant etc)
  • Medium Fast : Minimum 120Km/h average and Top speed 135-140 km/h (Bhuvneswar,Mohammad Abbas etc )

Quote
but I have never seen Bumrah being classified as a fast bowler. He is always shown as a medium pacer. On the other hand, Starc and Cummins are some of the bowlers who are classified as genuine fast bowlers. Also, among the Indian bowlers Umesh Yadav and Varun Aaron are being regarded as the fastest bowlers.

This is scam IMO lol, For example In last English Tour All Indian seamer bowled fast in comparison of English bowlers still they were showing Indian bowlers as Medium Pacer and Their bowlers Fast.
 

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December 03, 2019, 05:51:29 PM
 #614

^^^ I am not sure how they classify the pace bowlers (medium, medium fast, fast medium, fast), but I have never seen Bumrah being classified as a fast bowler. He is always shown as a medium pacer. On the other hand, Starc and Cummins are some of the bowlers who are classified as genuine fast bowlers. Also, among the Indian bowlers Umesh Yadav and Varun Aaron are being regarded as the fastest bowlers.


 Hope this helps, Jasprit Bumrah is a fast bowler who clocks over 140 Km/h  and hence he is called as a fast bowler and not a medium pacer, he might not have a fast run up nor action but the ball reaches the batsman at a very high pace.

Whatever the term may be given to his bowling but he is lethal bowler who bowls a good York bowl and gets the wicket on those delivery . He is highly rated bowler in all formats and respected by all batsman too and not easy to play as well.

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December 04, 2019, 02:40:35 AM
 #615

Test Cricket

  • FastBowler : 140 km/h average and top speed 145+ (Cummins, Starc, Bumrah,Shami, Umesh , Rabada, Ferguson,Boult,Archer,Mark Wood,Oshane Thomas)
  • Fast medium: Minimum 130 km/h average and Top speed 145km/h (Mustafizur Rahman, Ishant etc)
  • Medium Fast : Minimum 120Km/h average and Top speed 135-140 km/h (Bhuvneswar,Mohammad Abbas etc )

Thanks for this information. I never knew that this is how the pace bowlers are classified. But calculating the speed is not very accurate. For example, wind speed, altitude and other climatic factors can also have an influence on the speed. Also, there can be a difference while using different equipment. Anyway.. I need to check the average speed of the Indian bowlers during the next series. I have seen top speeds in excess of 145 regularly, but I am not sure their average speed is greater than 140 kmph.

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December 04, 2019, 07:20:26 AM
 #616

This is scam IMO lol, For example In last English Tour All Indian seamer bowled fast in comparison of English bowlers still they were showing Indian bowlers as Medium Pacer and Their bowlers Fast.
 
That is funny and i did not notice this, the television channel directs the match stats that is being displayed in the screen but India does have some genuine quick bowlers, apart from Bhuvneshwar Kumar the rest of the bowlers are capable to bowl at over 140 Km/hr and they pitch the bowl at the right areas and  so is the reason they are lethal. Next series i will watch their average speed since this has become a topic here Cheesy.
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December 04, 2019, 09:43:11 AM
Merited by DarkStar_ (5), AB de Royse777 (1)
 #617

I remember Bumrah's name showing as Right Arm Fast Medium in the TV screens. So did a quick Google search, you would be surprised to see the results



But all sports websites like Cricbuzz, epsnsports etc claim him as Right Arm Fast Bowler.

Then I checked the top fast bowlers, looks like Bumrah doesn't have an average speed above 140 kmph as per this article.. Sadly none of the top 10 speedsters have an average above 140kmph except for the top 3 (Cummins, Starc and Amir). Maybe the article is giving out wrong info
My search on how they differentiate the fast bowlers didn't actually provide any good results.

So, it's still not clear on how they differentiate fast, fast medium and medium fast. But it's fast > fast medium > medium fast


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December 04, 2019, 12:09:37 PM
 #618

Then I checked the top fast bowlers, looks like Bumrah doesn't have an average speed above 140 kmph as per this article.. Sadly none of the top 10 speedsters have an average above 140kmph except for the top 3 (Cummins, Starc and Amir). Maybe the article is giving out wrong info
My search on how they differentiate the fast bowlers didn't actually provide any good results.
Bumrah is considered one of the fastest Indian bowlers with an average speed of 142 km/h, his fastest being 153.26 km/h, which he bowled during the first Test match of India Tour of Australia 2018, at the Adelaide Oval, outpacing the likes of even Mitchell Starc and Pat Cummins.

Here is the wiki source

I have watched Jasprit Bumrah bowl in the last two foreign trips in Test and he was clocking over 140 to 147 km/h on a regular basis and you call him a fast bowler if someone is clocking above 140 km/h on an average.
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December 04, 2019, 12:32:04 PM
 #619

~snip
This time the Ashes was very interesting for a number of reasons. First of all a lot of controversy surrounded the England team (and specifically on Ben Stokes), after their scandalous win during the 2019 CWC. And secondly, it was sort of comeback series for Steve Smith, after missing more than a year as a result of the ICC ban. In the end, it turned out to be a direct two-way fight between Smith and Stokes.
You cannot call the England win scandalous as the umpires did not call a over throw decision and then the tie even in the super over and the rules were set before the tournament, i accept it was a stupid rule by the ICC but you have to accept that and the main attraction was the return of Warner and Smith during the Ashes and Warner struggled while Smith was in prime form and he made the difference for Australia to win the Ashes easily.
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December 04, 2019, 01:24:27 PM
Last edit: December 04, 2019, 02:07:01 PM by JSRAW
Merited by AB de Royse777 (1), akhjob (1)
 #620

~snip~

Thanks for this information. I never knew that this is how the pace bowlers are classified. But calculating the speed is not very accurate. For example, wind speed, altitude and other climatic factors can also have an influence on the speed.
Calculating the speed is accurate but using the term is not accurate or clear IMO. for some commentators and experts 1 over/spell  bowling average is enough (1 spell sounds fair ) but for some stats experts career average matters. it creates confusion because nowadays bowlers use variations (knuckle and slower ball) as match progress, Thanks to T-20 boom.

Wind, climate and most importantly Type of Balls (SG, Dukes and Kookaburra) plays big part in Speed (Test Format).

India use SG in India, Good for Spin bowlers. that's why all seamer use line-length in India instead of raw pace. unless you are Shoiab Akhtar /Starc/Lee.

England,WI use Dukes, Excellent for Seam bowlers if pitch is green and nightmare for Spinners.

Rest of the world use kokkaburra. requires raw speed and best for reverse swing if you tamper the ball silently.
  
Quote
I need to check the average speed of the Indian bowlers during the next series. I have seen top speeds in excess of 145 regularly, but I am not sure their average speed is greater than 140 kmph.

If its for one over and one spell (minimum 4 overs; max 6-7 overs) then i am sure Shami and Yadav can repeat this easily. i have doubt on Bumrah though because he is coming back from injury.

In case you want to check raw pace from Indian seamer then follow SA and English's tour. in the last 2 tours Indian bowlers outperformed all the local boys (only Rabada came close). In South Africa even Bhuvneshwar kumar was cloaking 140+ with the new ball. so i am hopeful for next tour as well.

In Australia they were behind in terms of speed which is not surprising but they were miles ahead with reverse swing and seam movement in comparison of Starc-Cummins.

Then I checked the top fast bowlers, looks like Bumrah doesn't have an average speed above 140 kmph

May be career average in all the formats.

~snip~
Bumrah is considered one of the fastest Indian bowlers with an average speed of 142 km/h, his fastest being 153.26 km/h, which he bowled during the first Test match of India Tour of Australia 2018, at the Adelaide Oval, outpacing the likes of even Mitchell Starc and Pat Cummins.


Fastest delivery yeah, but overall as unit i would say they were behind.


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