V. G. Siddhartha - CCD founder Dead - Could Crypto have saved him?

[legendster]

Sad news today for entrepreneurs, especially for those that are from India. CCD which when I first heard of as a kid, thought that it was an international brand. It was only later that I found out of its desi origin.

https://www.livemint.com/companies/news/-ripsiddhartha-cafe-coffee-day-ccd-outlets-shut-for-a-day-1564553001382.html

CCD is supposedly running an unprofitable venture, but could the implementation of crypto payments in its business model turned things around?

Personally, I don't think it would have done much in the long run, but it could have provided him with some liquidity in times of need. He died too soon, and now it seems the company might die pretty soon as well. What do you guys think though?

[1714034474]

1714034474

[1714034474]

1714034474

[webtricks]

It basically depends upon how CCD would have used crypto. If the company would have invested in crypto as an asset say 3-4 years ago then the invested value have been doubled or even tripled over the period and CCD would have been in very strong position with lot of liquidity at disposal. But this is now how companies work, they have immense pressure from VCs, shareholders, creditors and authorities so they can't use funds for such investments.

Now coming to what you are saying. I don't think using crypto as payment processor would have changed much. Most of the big companies which accept crypto as the payment medium generally liquidate them on the same day or on T+1 basis. They try avoiding to show cryptocurrencies in Financial Statements as that may weaken their market position. 
 
In the end, I would like to raise the concern of Indian startup industries. After the CCD incident, it is an eye opener for us. Let me explain how the startup environment working in our country. On the small note, startups are running out of new ideas so what they are actually doing is to beat existing business models by providing cheaper alternatives. For example, Oyo Rooms providing cheaper rooms, Flipkart providing cheaper items, Zomato providing cheaper food. They aren't offering something new but offering existing goods or services under new model. This might be beneficial for us as the customers but for business it is leading to existential crisis. They are more concerned to attract customers, receive funding, increasing company valuation than the basic purpose of business i.e. profit generation. We all know about Flipkart. It is one of the giant in e-commerce industry. The revenue of Flipkart in 2018 was around ₹30K crore, impressive right? But can you guess the profit? It was -₹46K crores. Yes! The loss of 46,000 crore Indian Rupees. So their expenses were 46,000 crore more than their revenues!
I don't know where are we heading but we may soon see lot of giant startups fading away...

[playboy654]

Litreally yes because many people saying that Indian banking system killed the founder of CCG due to high tax rates which leads to lot of debts on him.

If he used cryptos it might saved him.

[avikz]

Ok first lets take a look at the letter written by V.G. Siddhartha to his own company employees,

https://www.business-standard.com/article/companies/full-text-of-letter-written-by-ccd-s-siddhartha-before-he-went-missing-119073100066_1.html

It raises a lot of red flags as to how Banks and government agencies are extorting businessmen and harassing them mentally! Otherwise the owner of nearly 4500 crore INR wouldn't have taken this suicide route! The cash crunch that you have mentioned here, was not always there! It was created after the DG, Income Tax blocked their deal and imposed hold on the shares in question. It's simple bureaucratic nature of administration of our beloved country where some random people pass an exam and start heading a government department! In my 9 years of professional experience I had the misfortune to work with an IAS officer for 2 years and I now understand what exactly Mr. V.G. Siddhartha was going through!

Anyway, I believe crypto wouldn't do much in terms of liquidity! In India, majority of the population thinks cryptos are ponzi scam because they have been educated in a negative way. 99.99% wouldn't use crypto at CCD at the first place! Probably its international outlets would have seen some minor % of sales in crypto but not certainly in India!

[TigerMart]

Here is the other side of the story, i.e. response from department of income tax - https://www.livemint.com/companies/people/followed-due-process-in-probe-against-caf-coffee-day-s-vg-siddhartha-tax-dept-1564490076251.html

[amishmanish]

It was Ben Franklin who said, "Only two things are certain in life : Death and Taxes". Unfortunately for VGS, It turned out to be true.

There is hardly any place on earth where you can run a business of this proportion and risk the taxman's ire. In his letter, VGS has said that he had taken certain "risks" and none of his employees had any role to play in it.
He sold shares to repay debt and all this while the taxman kept knocking. The stress of unpaid debt, liquidation of shares, attachment of shares by Tax authorities etc. led him to believe that he cannot turn the enterprise profitable despite his long efforts (Something he says in the opening of his letter).

It was probably this despairing realization which may have made him take such an extreme step. Crypto couldn't have saved him in this lifetime. Governments and regulators everywhere are tightening the screws. The most that you can do is to use bitcoin in a responsible manner, pay the taxes on your gains and stay afloat till this brewing storm passes over.

[playboy654]

Yes, crypto would add a whole new dimension of scrutiny and investigation so it would have probably saved him a few months and he would have committed suicide earlier. 

Sheesh, what a useful topic.

Could crypto save flood victims? Could crypto save endangered species? Could crypto save Bernie Madoff?

Yes it can save flood victims because they have all of their money on their moile itself,so they no need to take any money or cheques at that time.

[akhjob]

Have we reduced ourselves to meaningless conversations just to satisfy the signature requirements? Is this what this topic is all about?

And having self-moderated threads is the new weapon in these types of stupid topics. I am sure that my reply is going to get deleted.

I dare the OP to let this stay.

You are seriously mistaken here. OP is not trying to meet his signature campaign requirements, because Posts in the Local boards will not be counted for payment as per the requirements mentioned in the Wolf.Bet Signature Campaign Page. I have quoted it for your convenience -  

-skip-

WOLF.BET is starting up their signature campaign to advertise their new Dice site.
I'll be looking for a total of 40 members who are active in the gambling section to help increase their exposure.

Rules & Requirements:

• -skip
• Posts in Local Boards, Games & Rounds, Off-topic, Lending, Auctions, Micro Earnings, Politics & Society, Beginners & Help, Archival, Signature Campaigns threads, or Spam Mega Threads will not count.
• -skip-

-skip-

However, I too feel that the topic doesn't belong here. I would have been better if posted in Off-topic (India)

[playboy654]

However, I too feel that the topic doesn't belong here. I would have been better if posted in Off-topic (India)

Most of the topics in this boards need to be trashed or moved to the off topic but lack of moderators made us stagnant of topics.

Anyway this topic some what related to economics but India board doesn't have economic section so better to talk in the main board rather than burying it under off topic.

[amicrypto]

However, I too feel that the topic doesn't belong here. I would have been better if posted in Off-topic (India)

It is good to know that posts (in the local board) will not be counted. But the question remains that why is a Hero member (who is supposed to be quite knowledgeable) asking such a stupid question?
Either, he does not understand how the real world works or is blindly trying to bring cryptocurrency into everything that he reads about.

As far as the death of VGS is concerned it is quite sad and shocking to hear. But he was pursuing a business model that was going to crack. A few years back, I (and my friends) had planned to kick start a mobile gourmet coffee chain in India. After extensive research on the coffee market, we were not able to justify the unit economics involved in the coffee business. And this was sans the huge fixed cost that Cafe coffee day incurs. So, the business model was never going to sustain the way he expanded the entire network. Some outlets might have turned profitable but a majority of them were loss-making units and this was confirmed by their ground staff. He did this on money raised by debt and the backing of his family wealth. Also, he was involved in money laundering activities. The thing with raising PE funds and debt is that you come under a huge obligation to make a profit to these firms (the clauses are made such). He could not pay off the money and hence decided to end his life.

The entire story is very saddening and I hope that we have mental health and wellness introduced in our school curriculums at a very early stage. Our society is such that we only praise success and loath failure. It is the success at any cost mantra that leads to such events.

[playboy654]

most of OPs posts are utterly useless containing absolutely 0 informative value or just downright nonsense.

seems like an energizer bunny on speed.

If you feel that are useless posts then hit report to moderator button.

But how can you say that he is making useless posts since he is one of the most merited member of India board.

He must have enough knowledge for getting those.

[playboy654]

most of OPs posts are utterly useless containing absolutely 0 informative value or just downright nonsense.

seems like an energizer bunny on speed.

If you feel that are useless posts then hit report to moderator button.

But how can you say that he is making useless posts since he is one of the most merited member of India board.

He must have enough knowledge for getting those.

unfortunately, the India section doesn't have any moderator anymore, so people can go around posting all types of foul smelling garbage, and then deleting comments that point out the nasty smell (self-moderated topics are moderated by the OP).

judging a shitposter by his merit count is like judging a person by # of instagram followers (hint: it can all be bought and sold).

in this particular case, well OP here just seems to be creating topics and posts for who knows what (if he claims they are not for a sig campaign).  they certainly serve no value to anyone with half an education and a third of a brain. 'an energizer bunny on speed'..  see this post for more: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5105711.msg51784805#msg51784805

I am also aware that Indian local board don't have any moderator currently, but reported post can be deleted by the global moderator who they have access to the whole forum.

But I am not sure about the self moderated topic can be deleted by moderators.

[legendster]

most of OPs posts are utterly useless containing absolutely 0 informative value or just downright nonsense.

seems like an energizer bunny on speed.

Have we reduced ourselves to meaningless conversations just to satisfy the signature requirements? Is this what this topic is all about?

And having self-moderated threads is the new weapon in these types of stupid topics. I am sure that my reply is going to get deleted.

I dare the OP to let this stay.

Fuck off ?

Connected accounts.
Sold accounts.

Original owner of Kabit has not responded to my Whatsapp querries.
Tagging now.



Let me deviate from the topic for once.

Kabit has been butt hurting for the last couple months since I remove his useless shitty posts from my self mod threads. He has been trolling most of my threads with his usual flaming. I typically keep him on ignore. But not anymore.

It is sad that it has come to this because Kabit was a guy I traded with. I still have his number and he has not denied selling off the account. I am 99% sure this is a bought account of some scamming asshole that I have busted in the past.

Anyways, let's return to topic. Any comment relating to this asshole after this post will be reported and deleted.

Don't like what I have to say? Go fuck off, this forum isn't owned by your father.

[mod note: edited out prohibited content]

[JSRAW]

@Kabit and @Legendster : Guys, troll each other as much as you want, but you don't need to dox each other and I agree with @amycrypto here.

This post is for Legendster and Kabit. Let us not behave like kids and have some sense of what we are doing on this forum. We may have our differences in terms of opinions but the revealing personal identity of users that you don't agree with is not accepted.

@legendster If you have solid proof that both kabit and amycrypto's accounts are connected then make a case in reputation. If it's true then will tag both accounts without any second thought.

If not, then I suggest you should withdrawal the accusation of connected accounts and negative feedback against @amicrypto respectfully.

We already have tiny Indian community so please don't start a pissing contest, it's not going to help anyone.

Archived : http://archive.fo/0EG3x

[kabit9]

I agree and am not the one who started revealing personal information.  

There is NO SOLID PROOF about mine and amicrypto's a/c's being linked, because they are not linked. We are 2 seperate people who never came in contact with each other before this prick turned up and started his shit posting. we simply pointed that out in seperate instances and he accused our a/c's of being linked because his butt hurts so bad since his horse dildo fell out.

In fact, I even told legendster to remove my info from his previous post, and gave him a week to do so, but no joy...

[legendster]

@Kabit and @Legendster : Guys, troll each other as much as you want, but you don't need to dox each other and I agree with @amycrypto here.

This post is for Legendster and Kabit. Let us not behave like kids and have some sense of what we are doing on this forum. We may have our differences in terms of opinions but the revealing personal identity of users that you don't agree with is not accepted.

@legendster If you have solid proof that both kabit and amycrypto's accounts are connected then make a case in reputation. If it's true then will tag both accounts without any second thought.

If not, then I suggest you should withdrawal the accusation of connected accounts and negative feedback against @amicrypto respectfully.

We already have tiny Indian community so please don't start a pissing contest, it's not going to help anyone.

Archived : http://archive.fo/0EG3x

This asshole crossed the line when he flashed my mother's info. This is not the thread to discuss this, so let's do it where this shit belongs. : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5175719.0

The whats, whys and whens will be explained there.

[legendster]

It is good to know that posts (in the local board) will not be counted. But the question remains that why is a Hero member (who is supposed to be quite knowledgeable) asking such a stupid question?

So your point is I am stupid to ask questions? I don't get it. If you could stop harking for Kabit9 for one second and asked me politely then you would have received a polite answer. Now we're stuck saying fuck off to each other's faces for eternity. Or at least as long as we are on this forum.

Either, he does not understand how the real world works or is blindly trying to bring cryptocurrency into everything that he reads about.

So I'll assume you and Kabit9/@TTT786 are separate people. And going by that I'll explain to you why but primarily because you are on topic.
If you have the mental maturity to read and understand then please read.

The whole point of your argument is that 'how dare I ask a stupid question?' The fact is, if VG Sid asked some stupid questions, he'd probably be alive. Why did he die? Because he was afraid of being labeled stupid just by asking a question.

Could crypto have saved him? The answer is no. But it would have bought him some time. If he had been one of the few lucky ones that invested in Bitcoins way back in 2010, he'd have enough personal wealth to carry on with his venture for a few more years. Probably even a decade.

A coffee house in South India might sound like a sane idea since it is the coffee hub of India, had CCD been branded as a corporate meetup place instead of a public place to grab snacks, it'd have done far better. Coffee and technocrats go hand in hand and had he tried to grab high-net-worth-individuals then they would have formed a reliable long term customer base to build their brand on.

And how better to advertise your brand's technological awareness other than to provide a visible connection between your brand and cryptocurrencies?
The whole outlook towards Bitcoins and crypto has been promoted in a negative way, I have done some digging up of past 7 years of media mentions of cryptocurrency and majority of them are completely negative. Why? Probably because of the word 'crypto" .. stoking a sense of connection with 'cryptography' .. ooh! secrecy! Get it?
If only a public brand was not only promoting crypto but had also adopted it to their central core functionality then CCD could have moved into newer tech-savvy markets like Singapore and could have not only survived but thrived!

As far as the death of VGS is concerned it is quite sad and shocking to hear. But he was pursuing a business model that was going to crack. A few years back, I (and my friends) had planned to kick start a mobile gourmet coffee chain in India. After extensive research on the coffee market, we were not able to justify the unit economics involved in the coffee business. And this was sans the huge fixed cost that Cafe coffee day incurs. So, the business model was never going to sustain the way he expanded the entire network. Some outlets might have turned profitable but a majority of them were loss-making units and this was confirmed by their ground staff. He did this on money raised by debt and the backing of his family wealth. Also, he was involved in money laundering activities. The thing with raising PE funds and debt is that you come under a huge obligation to make a profit to these firms (the clauses are made such). He could not pay off the money and hence decided to end his life.

The entire story is very saddening and I hope that we have mental health and wellness introduced in our school curriculums at a very early stage. Our society is such that we only praise success and loath failure. It is the success at any cost mantra that leads to such events.

It is indeed sad and that's why I wanted to share it here. I had no idea that this subsection of the forum is fostering filth like Kabit9 and has become so toxic and egomaniacal that they cannot stand it when someone deletes their shitpost from a self-moderated thread.

A sad fact of our Indian society is that we can not behave like matured individuals. This is also a sin I am guilty of. Take the case of Kabit9 and I. Even though I have not abused him initially, he called me names, tried to hurt my livelihood by spreading BS about my clients / past work and has now childishly been trying to blackmail me by flashing my mother's name.

THAT is the India we live in. Happy independence day to you. Tag removed.

[rsarkar]

Suicide should never be an option.
I believe both bitcoin and blockchain could have some favourable benefits in terms on liquidity and tech.
CCD might not die soon as Coca Cola is eyeing to buy stake in the company.

[legendster]

Suicide should never be an option.
I believe both bitcoin and blockchain could have some favourable benefits in terms on liquidity and tech.
CCD might not die soon as Coca Cola is eyeing to buy stake in the company.

Companies are not the problem. It's the people.

Most of us in the business world have a twisted sense of moral take the Kabit9 asshole's case that I just mentioned in the previous post.

Sad truth is, people in India are mostly not the most cordial type. And I am saying that being an Indian. Of course, this doesn't mean the entire majority of the billion that we are like that.

Those that are good, are afraid of speaking up or having their voices heard. Those that do, are too few too little to do anything of note in this country.

Also, we can't be sure if it was even suicide as of yet.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/tax-department-acted-as-per-law-in-ccd-promoter-siddhartha-case-sources/articleshow/70449827.cms

Yep - it could be murder since the signature on the note is a mismatch.